Militant Feminism, SJWism, "Rape Culture", and "Muh Soginy"

[SkaterTheDJWolf]

Let's have a nice, calm discussion about the feminist movement.

 

There is really no way you can't have heard of feminism or seen that triggered red-haired feminist meme. The problem is, these people are actually spreading stupidity. Instead of actually doing anything to help themselves, they hate on men and cisgenders (which is actually sexist), whites (which is actually racist), and anyone opposing them. They use no logic, instead thinking with their mouths. They also have a tendency to shout "MISOGYNY" or "RAPE CULTURE" whenever they encounter someone using logic.

 

So, that's my opinion on them, what's yours?

[~Faytl~]

> Calm discussion

 

> Air quotes around Rape Culture and a mockingly misspelled Misogyny 

 

> Immediately calls the other side stupid

 

... SURE, guy.

[SkaterTheDJWolf]

> Calm discussion

 

> Air quotes around Rape Culture and a mockingly misspelled Misogyny 

 

> Immediately calls the other side stupid

 

... SURE, guy.

 

Well, maybe not calm, but at least avoid any references to Hitler.

[BANZAI!!!!]

This is going to end very poorly. Premptive warning to keep sheet civil before Dad has an aneurism.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

In recent news, we have our first male rape victim from congress. Perp seems to have had a bisexual preference. Not the usual order the glass ceiling breaks, but here's a toast to all the people that downplay male rape and violence on males 

 

Hope y'all are proud (PSA: y'all is generic, not pointing fingers at anyone )

This is going to end very poorly. Premptive warning to keep sheet civil before Dad has an aneurism.

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

>nominee for most clickbait title of 2017

>"Let's have a nice, calm discussion about the feminist movement"

 

Okay.

 

I'm more or less fine with egalitarian feminism and not as fine with misandry, but I don't think actual misandry is any more prevalent than actual misogyny and it's unfortunate that feminism and women have their reputation tarnished among men by misandrists as it's unfortunate that men have their reputation among women tarnished by misogynists.

 

I think people get wrapped up in extreme examples and try to spin narratives but that doesn't help anyone get along, and the pragmatic thing to do is hear people out for where they stand rather than conflate people who disagree with you with dangerous extremists.

[~Faytl~]

I don't think "Let's be civil as I blatantly claim my disrespect for differing viewpoints and anyone who would argue against me" is something you want to lead with if you want a "calm" discussion. Because that's what your original post boils down to. You've already openly stated you think I'm stupid for remotely believing that rape culture is a thing, so why on earth should I be civil towards you when you CLEARLY are not meeting me or anyone else halfway?

 

But alright. We'll try it. Let's analyze what you said.

 

> Hate on men and cis-gendered-

Blatantly false and really obvious if you actually pay any attention. Feminism preaches equality among the sexes, hating on any particular gender is counterproductive to that. The phrase "men are trash" (which I'm sure you've seen) is a hyperbolic joke. I challenge you to think of anything a woman has ever said to you that is half as heinous as the myriad of things women experience daily at the hands of complete strangers on the street. 

 

Also, this bit was posted as I was typing so Imma respond to it now: White; I have ZERO respect for you after that. ZERO. Pulling out a male rape and holding it up and using it as your own puppet to illustrate how wrong you think we all are? Really illustrates how much you ACTUALLY care about male sexual assault victims.

 

> Hating on whites and that being racist

Again... they do not HATE on white people, we're just willing to call them on their bullshit. White men are the most powerful people on the planet; Almost all of the 100 richest people on the planet are white males and white males are largely responsible for keeping and upholding policies that negatively impact anyone who is not that; Look at the defunding of Planned Parenthood or the voter disenfranchisement of African Americans.

 

> Use no logic

Logic is a lot easier to notice when you bother to think about it and don't immediately default to mocking the other side. But you seem to have a very different definition of logic than I do which I would like you to elaborate on. What logic is it that you use? What logic is meant with cries of rape culture or misogyny from feminists? I'm VERY curious.

[.Rooster]

In recent news, we have our first male rape victim from congress. Perp seems to have had a bisexual preference. Not the usual order the glass ceiling breaks, but here's a toast to all the people that downplay male rape and violence on males 

 

Hope y'all are proud (PSA: y'all is generic, not pointing fingers at anyone )

 

Men get raped all the time, especially in prison. Also, don't forget about false rape accusations... BUT MUH RAPE CULTURE!!!

 

Skater, you hit the nail on the head. There isn't really much to say about 1st world Feminism, it's a disgusting joke and needs to go to Iran and Saudi Arabia. But then again, most SJWs are lazy entitled brats with no grasp of reality.

[(GigaDrillBreaker)]

Yes, there are people who call for absurdity under the name of feminism. Just like how there are people who call for genocide, segregation, etc.

 

To say that all feminism is misandry, or stupid, is just overwhelmingly ignorant.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

How is it equality among sexes if you demand to be paid equal to me when women on avg work fewer hours?

 

Seems more equality on outcome which is inherently unequal 

Yes, there are people who call for absurdity under the name of feminism. Just like how there are people who call for genocide, segregation, etc.

To say that all feminism is misandry, or stupid, is just overwhelmingly ignorant.

Misandry is a significant problem 4th wave feminists or not IMO

 

Males are actively persecuted these days, and we have to take it with a smile since some assfucks a few generations ago were clownshows towards women

[(GigaDrillBreaker)]

People treat people awfully. Both misogyny and misandry are present in modern society. From my own experience, I've observed misogyny to be more prevalent, but that doesn't make misandry any less of an issue.

 

I think a lot of the conflict comes from the fallacy that supporting one gender means you are opposing the other.

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

Males are actively persecuted these days, and we have to take it with a smile since some assfucks a few generations ago were clownshows towards women

Honestly...It's not so clear cut as you think. I've observed a lot of things in regards to this and I can say for sure that there's still a ton of disgusting things that males do towards females. I'm not saying you're wrong that men don't get sheet too but...It's honestly disturbing to notice how...casually some men do things that are really not okay.

For instance I see at least several times a day men being disturbingly and sometimes aggressively flirtatious with my cousin on social media. Even after she asks them to stop and is clearly uncomfortable.

I saw an article about how a woman asked a man to not spread his legs so far on a subway because she couldn't sit because of it.

That man punched the woman for it.

The comments were mostly defending the man's right to sit like that and hardly any of them commented that it was wrong to get violent.

Hell I saw a few like "Any girl who tries to tell me what to do is getting a smack". And "Well what was her tone? Maybe she deserved it."

[.Rooster]

Yes, there are people who call for absurdity under the name of feminism. Just like how there are people who call for genocide, segregation, etc.

 

To say that all feminism is misandry, or stupid, is just overwhelmingly ignorant.

 

Feminism is good. But when women are treated better and/or equal to men by law, it's just a nuisance that nobody needs. Feminism (in the first world ofc) nowadays, just wants to shelter and pamper women. Feminism is what oppresses women. It treats women like retarded little children, like they are dumber than men. Misandry? I call it misogyny.

 

 

How is it equality among sexes if you demand to be paid equal to me when women on avg work fewer hours?

 

Seems more equality on outcome which is inherently unequal 

Misandry is a significant problem 4th wave feminists or not IMO

 

Males are actively persecuted these days, and we have to take it with a smile since some assf***s a few generations ago were clownshows towards women

 

Pretty much.

[Yui]

Y'all really make me not miss modship sometimes. If I were still in the big seat I'd be handing out warn points and thread locks like candy right about now.

 

Let's have a nice, calm discussion about the feminist movement.

 

There is really no way you can't have heard of feminism or seen that triggered red-haired feminist meme. The problem is, these people are actually spreading stupidity. Instead of actually doing anything to help themselves, they hate on men and cisgenders (which is actually sexist), whites (which is actually racist), and anyone opposing them. They use no logic, instead thinking with their mouths. They also have a tendency to shout "MISOGYNY" or "RAPE CULTURE" whenever they encounter someone using logic.

 

So, that's my opinion on them, what's yours?

Do you know what feminism actually is besides a meme? The "feminism" you see in memes is a disgrace to the real thing, which is about equality between genders, instead of trigger-happy screeching in an attempt to get some attention and sense of verification from anyone willing to indulge the person screeching. You also can't try to claim your discussion is intended to be nice and calm when you've mocked these meme feminists with the "Muh Soginy" bit in the title, stated they're spreading stupidity, and claimed they use no logic. Are you wrong? Not really, which is unfortunate.

However, if you're going to post a thread about feminism in Debates, perhaps you should discuss the actual goal of gender equality instead of the meme that's stained the word.

 

In recent news, we have our first male rape victim from congress. Perp seems to have had a bisexual preference. Not the usual order the glass ceiling breaks, but here's a toast to all the people that downplay male rape and violence on males 

 

Hope y'all are proud (PSA: y'all is generic, not pointing fingers at anyone )

Please, clarify what this has to do with feminism which the topic is supposed to be about. Male rape is just as heinous as female rape, but if you're here to preach about its importance, perhaps you should start your own thread about it instead of bringing it up in a thread that had nothing to do with it in the first place.

 

Feminism is good. But when women are treated better and/or equal to men by law, it's just a nuisance that nobody needs. Feminism (in the first world ofc) nowadays, just wants to shelter and pamper women. Feminism is what oppresses women. It treats women like retarded little children, like they are dumber than men. Misandry? I call it misogyny.

What? This implies you think women deserve lesser treatment than men. Please tell me you just phrased this poorly or that I'm misunderstanding you.

 

 

And while I'm here, where do I stand on feminism? I strongly support its original purpose; equality between men and women. The thing that it's become is simply not okay and needs to be snuffed out, but mockery won't get anyone anywhere anytime soon. The best thing one can do to deal with what memey SJWs call feminism is to simply ignore them; eventually they'll find something else to do for attention instead, and the actual feminists will be able to continue fighting the good fight without the stigma of... well, you get the point.

 

tl/dr: Memes ruined feminism.

[VCR_CAT]

How is it equality among sexes if you demand to be paid equal to me when women on avg work fewer hours?

 

So many asterisks needed in this statement, as it's so loaded with either a misunderstanding of information, or an intentional or unintentional skewing of information for the purpose of pushing your own narrative rather than stating something with real truth in it.

 

"Women on average work fewer hours" doesn't... mean anything in this context. If more women than men were staying at home to look after kids (and considering the "Stay at Home Mom" is a pretty well-established cultural facet), then... yes, the average work time of women as a whole would go down because there are more women who aren't working. Or what about jobs that offer fewer hours, or maybe employers are intentionally giving more hours to their male employees than females? Do men take maternity leave when they're pregnant? Because that would also lower hours.

 

The statement is just... it's laughably inaccurate, because you're not telling me if this is women working the same jobs as men but working fewer hours but demanding the same overall pay, or if this is because any myriad of reasons that contribute to the overall lowering of hours.

 

Before you make loaded statements like this, I suggest you take more time to research things rather than just throwing out such a grossly under-thought or skewed message. Because if women who are working certain jobs as men for just as long, just as hard, for the same hours, just as well, but ultimately are paid less (because this HAS happened), that's BAD. That's blatant discrimination.

 

Take more time and look up this statement, see what women really are paid for what work.

 

 

 

Misandry is a significant problem 4th wave feminists or not IMO

 

Males are actively persecuted these days, and we have to take it with a smile since some assfucks a few generations ago were clownshows towards women

 

Nobody's denying that misandry exists, because it does, and discriminatory treatment against others should be opposed on all fronts. People should treat people with respect and equality, Just Don't Be A Dick (hey remember when I used to say this).

 

But there's a few things that need to be avoided, and one of the big things is generalizing the overall movement of feminism as being one thing. It's possible to work towards equality for people, to build others up without discriminating others. The sort of thing where one group wants equal, good treatment as another has members demonize the other side is not a strange thing, and is definitely not unique to feminism. You can still support women and other people without being that guy that just ends up demonizing others.

 

Because when you're that person that's going around spitting venom at, say, feminists for being sexist against men, you're being just as bad as them. You're generalizing and demonizing, and nobody's better for it.

 

And I experience stuff like that, too. I want to support LGBT rights, and I see groups or threads like those run by George Takei with people that actively slander and demonize people for being straight, I'm being discriminated. As a person that wants to see equal treatment for people of colour, I see a lot of people that demonize white people for being the source of a lot of racism and discrimination in the west (this will happen with a majority population). In those cases, I am being discriminated. I do also need to remember that this discrimination doesn't mean I'm being treated as badly or worse than those people. My rights aren't under threat, I still have a better chance at getting certain jobs, at getting better pay. I'm not experiencing really what they're experiencing, but there are still people that will think less of me simply for who I appear to be.

 

But what can I do as a person? Stop supporting those people groups? Starting spreading narratives that those people are actually awful and nobody should support them? Start going off about how all feminists are men-hating monster SJW's and then start making fun of their physical appearance? No. I'll still support equality for women, for people of colour. I'll still support rights for LGBT peoples. But I'm not going to demonize those people or push those narratives.

 

If anyone wants things to be better for everyone, then you have to work for things to be better for everyone. Is that "Smiling while taking it"? Maybe. That depends on your upbringing; what have you been taught is the correct response for people behaving poorly towards you? Is it "An eye for an eye", or is "turn the other cheek"?

 

I'm going by this mantra: "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind". Frankly, I don't care if you don't like modern feminists or not, or if you hate SJW's, or if you think they're "cringey" or whatever. Ignore them, stop feeding into this cycle of hate and discrimination and work towards making things better for everyone. Be the bigger man.

[Nathanael D. Striker]

Yes, there are people who call for absurdity under the name of feminism. Just like how there are people who call for genocide, segregation, etc.

 

To say that all feminism is misandry, or stupid, is just overwhelmingly ignorant.

 

I was just about to say this myself when I saw the OP. It seems what we have here is a case of differing definitions on Feminism. So before we go further, why don't we discuss what Feminism means to each one of us so that we can understand where everyone is coming from definition-wise? I'll start: Feminism to me is equality between men and women. While that is assured in a theoretical sense, it hasn't come nearly as close in a practical sense. Why that is the case is up for debate, but it isn't hard to see a difference between theory and practice here.

[(GigaDrillBreaker)]

tl/dr: Memes ruined feminism.

It's not like actual feminism ceased to exist, or was replaced by this.

 

Ruined the word feminism? Sure. But feminism itself has little to nothing to do with that.

Be the bigger man.

BY USING MALE AS THE DEFAULT GENDER YOU IMPLY THAT ONLY MEN CAN BE BETTER!!!!!!!!

 

I've been reasonable enough in here that I'm allowed to make this joke.

[Dad]

You guys are really pitiful. Since I'm not home atm I'm not gonna get too heavy handed. But you'll hear from me again very soon.

 

The way intelligence went from average to ignorant is actually astounding. And I'm not even talking about the actual topic yet.

[.Rooster]

What? This implies you think women deserve lesser treatment than men. Please tell me you just phrased this poorly or that I'm misunderstanding you.

 

 And while I'm here, where do I stand on feminism? I strongly support its original purpose; equality between men and women. The thing that it's become is simply not okay and needs to be snuffed out, but mockery won't get anyone anywhere anytime soon. The best thing one can do to deal with what memey SJWs call feminism is to simply ignore them; eventually they'll find something else to do for attention instead, and the actual feminists will be able to continue fighting the good fight without the stigma of... well, you get the point.

 

tl/dr: Memes ruined feminism.

Misworded. Women are already equal; 1st world feminism has to die.

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

"Turn the other cheek" is a great maxim to be lauded and widely-espoused.

 

"Just Don't Be A Dick" is a vacant platitude to be shunned eternally. 

[Dad]

Let's have a nice, calm discussion about the feminist movement.

 

There is really no way you can't have heard of feminism or seen that triggered red-haired feminist meme. The problem is, these people are actually spreading stupidity. Instead of actually doing anything to help themselves, they hate on men and cisgenders (which is actually sexist), whites (which is actually racist), and anyone opposing them. They use no logic, instead thinking with their mouths. They also have a tendency to shout "MISOGYNY" or "RAPE CULTURE" whenever they encounter someone using logic.

 

So, that's my opinion on them, what's yours?

 

First and foremost I'll deal with you.

 

We have rules in debates.  Clearly, you didn't read them or your opening post wouldn't be a bunch of dribble and recited edge-lord memes.  Here are the issues I have with your OP:

 

• A lack of structure for an unbiased argument
• A lack of cited sources
• A lack of information for your own opinion

It's fine to have a strong opinion.  The problem here is you haven't presented an opportunity for actual discussion.  You haven't presented any evidence in support of your claims and you haven't cited any sources for feminism, rape culture, or anything in relation to the topic.  That's one of the most basic instructions we have here.  And it's extremely basic.  Not to mention this atrocious title.  

 

I know this is a children's card game forum, but you don't have to act like a child.  So when you can grow up just a little bit and restructure your OP, change the title, and you can go on about having your debate.  Until then, this thread will remain locked.

 

EDIT:  Forgot you need to edit it while it's unlocked.  I'm outta touch with basic member permissions.

 

Until the requirements have been met, I'm asking that no one replies to this topic.  I'd appreciate your cooperation.

[SkaterTheDJWolf]

What have I done?

[Dad]

What have I done?

 

If you seriously don't understand what I asked of you, why should I keep this topic open?  You can't compose a solid argument?  Is that what you're telling me?  I could ask almost anyone else present in this topic to run it following the debate rules, so why can't you?

 

If you fail to do so, I will lock this and ask someone else to create the topic.  I'll also be monitoring your activity in my section closely.