Ryusei the Morning Star Posted December 7, 2017 Report Share Posted December 7, 2017 Preface, I don't like Snatch. To be honest, I actually dislike him. Which is why it's all the important to stand up for his rights as well. Snatch was reportedly banned on two charges: (1) His comments on the August Ames thread (2) him commenting and laughing at Enguin's joke. The latter is problematic for the same reason Enguin's ban is wrong. The way the mods dealt with antisemitism in the past is wholly inconsistent with this new zero tolerance policy they've been pushing in the last week or so. I don't have a big problem with such a policy, but the onus is on the mod teams to make the rules abundantly clear before they start enforcing them. The way Shard & Zai were treated vs the way Enguin & Snatch were treated shows this did NOT happen In the Ames thread Snatch made, in my opinion, foul statements dismissing the death of Miss Ames because (1) I defended her (2) the group that was in opposition to her is one Snatch finds kinship with. I don't think anyone was more angry with Snatch's reply than me (as my response to him showed), but neither of these views are banworthy. He has a right to have an victim complex and lash out. His posts were flawed factually, but they were not banworthy Questions: Did Snatch already get a the first stage of ban recently? How many warning points did have before yesterday? How many pts did he receive for each incident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad Posted December 7, 2017 Report Share Posted December 7, 2017 He's off a one week ban which I also punished him for. One week --> two weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Rooster Posted December 7, 2017 Report Share Posted December 7, 2017 How is this forum supposed to grow if people are getting bans for something small like this? People are going to be afraid that their views and opinions aren't PC enough, and will refrain from posting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VCR_CAT Posted December 7, 2017 Report Share Posted December 7, 2017 How is this forum supposed to grow if people are getting bans for something small like this? People are going to be afraid that their views and opinions aren't PC enough, and will refrain from posting... I bet you anything the views that were expressed (not the ones calling for genocide because there's no way that's going to be coloured favorably) that made the 1-week into a 2-week could've been done in a way that didn't call for any increase in punishment. It wasn't about views, it was about the manner they were presented which was immature and insulting to many parties involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryusei the Morning Star Posted December 7, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2017 He's off a one week ban which I also punished him for. One week --> two weeks.Then he should have gotten 2 months. If he's off his one week, and racked up 10WP again, he gets the next level of Temp ban Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad Posted December 7, 2017 Report Share Posted December 7, 2017 How is this forum supposed to grow if people are getting bans for something small like this? People are going to be afraid that their views and opinions aren't PC enough, and will refrain from posting... If you can't express yourself without flaming someone and joking about genocide, you don't belong here. I'd be happy to see you leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryusei the Morning Star Posted December 7, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2017 How is this forum supposed to grow if people are getting bans for something small like this? People are going to be afraid that their views and opinions aren't PC enough, and will refrain from posting...Because certain members of this forum have unilaterally decided what is acceptable speech and didn't feel the need to inform the publicIf you can't express yourself without flaming someone and joking about genocide, you don't belong here. I'd be happy to see you leave.Who did snatch flame? He showed a disregard for human life regarding Ames, but who did he flame, and how did he end up with 10WP (if he did) You guys keep dodging on the Holocaust thing, it was never a established rule before, and on the contrary, you guys were not dealing with it in a 0 tolerance way. It's not fair you start dealing with it such without prior warning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad Posted December 7, 2017 Report Share Posted December 7, 2017 Don't worry, we're working on rule changes. You'll have plenty of time to adjust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryusei the Morning Star Posted December 7, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2017 Don't worry, we're working on rule changes. You'll have plenty of time to adjust.Oh it's not about me. It's about the two people that you guys banned without giving that courtesy to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad Posted December 7, 2017 Report Share Posted December 7, 2017 Oh it's not about me. It's about the two people that you guys banned without giving that courtesy to They'll be aight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryusei the Morning Star Posted December 7, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2017 Enguin didn't seem thrilled that he's being lumped in with Nazis and tossed out over a joke that multiple people seemed to have gotten a laugh out of Not on speaking terms with Snatch, but he's already emotionally frail. And we know he suffers from depressions. I already gave him the thrashing he deserved for his Ames comment in the thread as a reply. Why was there a need to ban him on top of that? Does what happens in General/Debates no longer stay there? Also, please answer my question. Did Snatch cross 10 WP again? If so how did he get there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad Posted December 7, 2017 Report Share Posted December 7, 2017 Enguin didn't seem thrilled that he's being lumped in with Nazis and tossed out over a joke that multiple people seemed to have gotten a laugh out of Not on speaking terms with Snatch, but he's already emotionally frail. And we know he suffers from depressions. I already gave him the thrashing he deserved for his Ames comment in the thread as a reply. Why was there a need to ban him on top of that? Does what happens in General/Debates no longer stay there? Also, please answer my question. Did Snatch cross 10 WP again? If so how did he get there? No. I was already gonna punish him for his part in Enguin's joke. This just gave me another reason to punish him. And you "giving out thrashings" doesn't suddenly make his behavior okay. I wasn't going to vote to punish Enguin and not punish the people involved. And there's one more to look into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryusei the Morning Star Posted December 7, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2017 No. I was already gonna punish him for his part in Enguin's joke. This just gave me another reason to punish him. And you "giving out thrashings" doesn't suddenly make his behavior okay. I wasn't going to vote to punish Enguin and not punish the people involved. And there's one more to look into.Your premise was flawed, doubling down isn't the remedy. He made an asinine post in general. People in general responded to him and took care of it. Drama did not leave the section. Further action wasn't mandated. 10 WP is the threshold one needs to qualify for the ban schedule. Snatch already burn his second strike (1 week) according to you. So did he or did not have 10 WP to qualify for the third strike? Probs Dae or me I assume from the veiled threat :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad Posted December 7, 2017 Report Share Posted December 7, 2017 Your premise was flawed, doubling down isn't the remedy. He made an asinine post in general. People in general responded to him and took care of it. Drama did not leave the section. Further action wasn't mandated. 10 WP is the threshold one needs to qualify for the ban schedule. Snatch already burn his second strike (1 week) according to you. So did he or did not have 10 WP to qualify for the third strike? Probs Dae or me I assume from the veiled threat :P I don't make threats. I made the call to ban him for similar behavior to Enguin's. His last post in General just made me sure about pushing the button. He was going to be banned with or without that post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryusei the Morning Star Posted December 7, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2017 0/3 questions answered Didn't answer if he had crossed the 10 WP threshold or how he passed it if he did. Specific WP for specific crimes Still haven't explained why the mod team feels it's ok to use an ex post facto law to punish people When debates and general got ugly before, the mods made it clear they didn't want spillage outside of the section. That did not happen. So why a new adverse reaction. You mentioned he was getting banned regardless, which would make this moot but would make 1&2 more important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinkerer Posted December 7, 2017 Report Share Posted December 7, 2017 I barely know the situation, but this topic did catch my attention. Wasn't discussing specifics in terms of warning points something that the mod team noted they wouldn't reveal for the negative precedent that would set? I think it is reasonable for them to hold back on discussing specific personal WPs. At the same time, even if we cannot hear specifics, a simply yes or no answer to the question "Did Snatch bump up against the 10 WP wall?" would be appreciated for the sake of knowing whether rule precedent has been followed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryusei the Morning Star Posted December 7, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2017 I barely know the situation, but this topic did catch my attention. Wasn't discussing specifics in terms of warning points something that the mod team noted they wouldn't reveal for the negative precedent that would set? I think it is reasonable for them to hold back on discussing specific personal WPs. At the same time, even if we cannot hear specifics, a simply yes or no answer to the question "Did Snatch bump up against the 10 WP wall?" would be appreciated for the sake of knowing whether rule precedent has been followed.It would be reasonable if the mod team was honest and forthcoming normally. They no longer have that benefit of the doubt. I no longer trust this mod team to be honest with their calculations. Roxas once gave me two wp for "flaming" cause I told someone to read. It's not beyond them to just throw out enough warning pts to get him to cross the threshold. Sakura gave me 5 wp for posting a picture of sheet. Etc. Evilfusion didn't even give me a reason for my perma for example (and I had 0 WP at that time). He just copied Nai's old one. There's very little we can actually do to hold any of them accountable since they just choose their replacements with little user input. Evidence they're following the rules has become more necessary in light of recent transgressions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad Posted December 7, 2017 Report Share Posted December 7, 2017 0/3 questions answered Didn't answer if he had crossed the 10 WP threshold or how he passed it if he did. Specific WP for specific crimes Still haven't explained why the mod team feels it's ok to use an ex post facto law to punish people When debates and general got ugly before, the mods made it clear they didn't want spillage outside of the section. That did not happen. So why a new adverse reaction. You mentioned he was getting banned regardless, which would make this moot but would make 1&2 more important I already told you he hadn't crossed any threshold. You asked, I said no. I'm not going to permaban Enguin for one thing and let Snatch Steal get away with a few warning points because of "the system". If one person gets banned for it, everyone who partook in it will also get banned for it. Whether this is temporary or permanent. It's not an adverse reaction. It's just a reaction you don't like. And I won't change my mind on it. It's that simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryusei the Morning Star Posted December 7, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2017 So you ignored the system to ban Enguin, then ignored the system again to ban Snatch to be fair to Enguin. Nice And we're supposed to trust you lot. You're literally ignoring the rules you agreed to cuz why not. Not sure how much more adverse it gets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad Posted December 7, 2017 Report Share Posted December 7, 2017 I'm not here to garner your trust. I'm here to do my job. Your trust doesn't mean anything to me. It holds no weight. If you want me removed, that's fine. I'm a volunteer. Snatch is banned for two weeks, Enguin isn't coming back, and I have one more ban to hand out once we've all agreed on it. So you may as well get another thread ready and copy and paste your posts. My response won't change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryusei the Morning Star Posted December 7, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2017 You're not doing your job. Resign Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad Posted December 7, 2017 Report Share Posted December 7, 2017 I've thought about it. Don't think I'm gonna go anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryusei the Morning Star Posted December 7, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2017 I mean that much is obvious. It took a mod openly admitting he was targeting users for him to be demodded. You're ignoring the rules you agreed to, becuase of if your feels and convenience. Regardless of if you step down or not, you're destroying what's left of the team's image. I'm speaking up for people, becuase these same people (Snatch) gloated when I got banned. First they came for x, and I didn't speak etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VCR_CAT Posted December 7, 2017 Report Share Posted December 7, 2017 I'm speaking up for people Don't assume you're speaking for anyone but yourself. If anyone wants to be spoken for, let them speak for themselves. If they've been banned, then let them get a hold of the mod teams themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad Posted December 7, 2017 Report Share Posted December 7, 2017 I mean that much is obvious. It took a mod openly admitting he was targeting users for him to be demodded. You're ignoring the rules you agreed to, becuase of if your feels and convenience. Regardless of if you step down or not, you're destroying what's left of the team's image. I'm speaking up for people, becuase these same people (Snatch) gloated when I got banned. First they came for x, and I didn't speak etc Nah. I'm applying punishment to Snatch Steal because I agreed to a punishment for Enguin. It's not about convenience. It's not about how I feel. You want it to be that way, but it's not. I don't care about a team image because it's irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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