Enguin's Ban

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

So once again the mods have overstepped today

 

Enguin was banned today for saying "arbeit macht frei" (work sets you free), which are the words written over the Auschwitz concentration camp

 

Sakura (and it seems the mod team) has deemed this Anti-Semitic

 

6 problems

 

1) A number of others commented on that status and were laughing at it, are they all banned?

 

2) You can deem holocaust jokes, cruel and insensitive, but a number of people, including a Jew Mod have made them. Said mod even mentioned "Jews make the best holocaust jokes"

 

3) There is a pathway to a permaban that the mods agreed on, I'd challenge them to show me a statutes that says mentioning x or y phrase will get your banned, but even if that's the case, barring Porn or Gore, there's a very specific way to be perma banned. Enguin did qualify

 

4) If Arbeit macht frei is "hate speech" and perma ban worthy, what about the individual say said "6 million was not enough" (today) and those that laughed at that post. They're still around

 

5) Does this end with Jews (if so why?), or does it go for any thing the mods want. Roxas just last week was going on a rant about islamophobia when confronted with a post critical of Islam. Is that perma worthy hate speed?

 

6) Shard got multiple public warnings for more explicit "Antisemitism" before he was perma banned. Why is it so hard for the mods to follow standards they set

 

 

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Enguin has had confrontations with the mod who delivered the statement in question. That mod even altered a post title to be less unflattering of them. 

 

This stinks of bias, this ban is wrong, and once again the mod team shows that it's utterly incompetent, quick to reach judgment, and draconian

 

Enguin should be unbanned promptly, and the team has shown once again that it needs to be utterly scrapped and redone by people who can follow rules they agree to

[Simping For Hina]

Why is "insensitive" in a lower size?

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Why is "insensitive" in a lower size?

I have no idea

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

I think I made a post a long time ago about how I feel like whenever I make effort to make things work better it ends up not mattering.

Despite this I came up with a, admittedly rough, idea for a scaling system. I was told that it would be used. It wasn't...more than one time.

I've felt better about the "not mattering" thing cause of a few instances where things actually did work out. Even so this felt...off.

 

I understand that there are times it can't be used. I understand that the mods take more heat than they need to. Honestly, I kinda feel bad commenting this because I know adding onto stress sucks, but...I can't help but feel tossed aside. It's unpleasant when I honestly want to help the mods not get as much sheet as they do.

 

Perhaps there's an explanation and this is jumping the gun. If so, sorry, but for now I just want to have my say.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

I think I made a post a long time ago about how I feel like whenever I make effort to make things work better it ends up not mattering.

Despite this I came up with a, admittedly rough, idea for a scaling system. I was told that it would be used. It wasn't...more than one time.

I've felt better about the "not mattering" thing cause of a few instances where things actually did work out. Even so this felt...off.

 

I understand that there are times it can't be used. I understand that the mods take more heat than they need to. Honestly, I kinda feel bad commenting this because I know adding onto stress sucks, but...I can't help but feel tossed aside. It's unpleasant when I honestly want to help the mods not get as much sheet as they do.

 

Perhaps there's an explanation and this is jumping the gun. If so, sorry, but for now I just want to have my say.

See this isn't how it works. They broke that agreement when they banned me. At that time Dad gave his assurances that they were breaking it for me only and it would not be a regular thing, and yet...here we are. At some point you can't try to bandage up something that's beyond repair. 

[Dad]

This was not Enguin's first offense for this behavior, and it was just line-step after line-step.  He's gone.  He's not coming back.  Warnings will be going around to everyone involved.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

This was not Enguin's first offense for this behavior, and it was just line-step after line-step.  He's gone.  He's not coming back.  Warnings will be going around to everyone involved.

Can you detail to me how Enguin has repeatedly been an anti-Semite in public please. Also I'd love documentation of him being warned to stop in the manner that Shard got. Thank you

 

How many warning points did enguin have. Where was he on the temp ban (as on which step).

[Dad]

Can you detail to me how Enguin has repeatedly been an anti-Semite in public please. Also I'd love documentation of him being warned to stop in the manner that Shard got. Thank you

 

His last status (we saved it), his title, and random misc posts are three separate occasions in which he displayed this behavior.  Now if you wanna dig through Misc., feel free.  I'm the only one who warned him publicly.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

His last status (we saved it), his title, and random misc posts are three separate occasions in which he displayed this behavior.  Now if you wanna dig through Misc., feel free.  I'm the only one who warned him publicly.

The burden of proof is on the prosecution.

 

What makes "Arbeit macht frei" permaban worthy? 

 

"Merry Christmas unless you're a jew" is banworthy too now? Jesus....it's almost like they don't celebrate Christmas. Almost

 

Are you guys really incapable of noticing a difference between what Shard was writing and what Enguin was? If so, step the funk down

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

His last status (we saved it), his title, and random misc posts are three separate occasions in which he displayed this behavior.  Now if you wanna dig through Misc., feel free.  I'm the only one who warned him publicly.

No offense but this makes me even more confused. Some of the posts between you and him looked like banter to me. Could be wrong but that's part of why I was confused, you seemed to be joking around with him shortly before this happened.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

No offense but this makes me even more confused. Some of the posts between you and him looked like banter to me. Could be wrong but that's part of why I was confused, you seemed to be joking around with him shortly before this happened.

"Merry Christmas unless you're a jew"

 

This was literally the title he had that helped make him banworthy

 

"Happy Christmas unless you're not a christian" - RIPPERINO, I HAS COMITTED A HATE CRIMEZ

[Dad]

The burden of proof is on the prosecution.

 

What makes "Arbeit macht frei" permaban worthy? 

 

If you're curious, it's a history dripped in anti-semitism.  It deals with Auschwitz concentration camps in which Jews were persecuted and many killed for their religious beliefs.  By itself, it is punishable.  Coupling it with Enguin's other offenses made it bannable.

 

 

Context.  I was randomly popping into statuses and calling people "n00bs" but I didn't actually read what Enguin wrote before I posted in his last status.  It was too late for me to go back and take the comment down.  That's when we got a report.

No offense but this makes me even more confused. Some of the posts between you and him looked like banter to me. Could be wrong but that's part of why I was confused, you seemed to be joking around with him shortly before this happened.

 

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

If you're curious, it's a history dripped in anti-semitism.  It deals with Auschwitz concentration camps in which Jews were persecuted and many killed for their religious beliefs.  By itself, it is punishable.  Coupling it with Enguin's other offenses made it bannable.

If you read the thread I made, the first line I noted was that it was the words over Aushwitz. It really doesn't make it ban worthy anymore than saying Deus Vaut or Alluh Akbar would merit it.

 

I hope, as in I really really hope, you're being the public face for this, but if you're really in the camp that this is some egregious occurrence, you need to step down too dad

[Dad]

If you read the thread I made, the first line I noted was that it was the words over Aushwitz. It really doesn't make it ban worthy anymore than saying Deus Vaut or Alluh Akbar would merit it.

 

I hope, as in I really really hope, you're being the public face for this, but if you're really in the camp that this is some egregious occurrence, you need to step down too dad

 

I was in the crowd and sided with my co-workers.  You can call for me to step-down.  Feel free.  Flame is the only one who questioned whether it should be permanent.  Night was not involved.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

I was in the crowd and sided with my co-workers.  You can call for me to step-down.  Feel free.  Flame is the only one who questioned whether it should be permanent.  Night was not involved.

Flame was also the one who dotted his t's and crossed his i's with Shard. Ever notice that even people like me and Barty didn't defend his (shard's) actions? Flame made sure it was indefensible, and Shard, sadly, went out of his way to make sure little defense could be mounted

 

I consider you a friend, which makes this all the more sucky, but if you were involved, you need to step down

[Dad]

Flame was also the one who dotted his t's and crossed his i's with Shard. Ever notice that even people like me and Barty didn't defend his actions?

 

I consider you a friends, which makes this all the more sucky, but if you were involved, you need to step down

 

I don't think friends has anything to do with it.  And iirc it was either Night or evil who banned Shard.  If there's an overwhelming vote for me to go, I'll step-down.  Go rally your friends and get them to join you to assist with my leaving.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

I don't think friends has anything to do with it.  And iirc it was either Night or evil who banned Shard.  If there's an overwhelming vote for me to go, I'll step-down.  Go rally your friends and get them to join you to assist with my leaving.

"Friends" is why I feel bad saying you should step down. Cuz you've been a terrific mod in all your assigned duties. But if the others on the mod team are to be held accountable, then you have to be treated the same way, whether I like it or not. That's kinda how justice works

 

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Flame warned shard for his overtly anti-semetic posts multiple times, even noting that he would get a perma soon. And the graphic nature of Shard's posts don't come close to anything enguin say or the banter others returned to him

 

I'm not rallying anyone. If they think you should get preferential judgment, that's their choice. I don't think anyone is above the law

[Dad]

"Friends" is why I feel bad saying you should step down. Cuz you've been a terrific mod in all your assigned duties. But if the others on the mod team are to be held accountable, then you have to be treated the same way, whether I like it or not. That's kinda how justice works

 

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Flame warned shard for his overtly anti-semetic posts multiple times, even noting that he would get a perma soon. And the graphic nature of Shard's posts don't come close to anything enguin say or the banter others returned to him

 

I'm not sure why you even consider me a friend.  Me being a decent mod doesn't make me friends with anyone.  If it's time for me to go, then it's time for me to go.  This should be an informed decision, not an emotional one.  And as I've been informed it was indeed Flame who banned Shard.  My mistake.

 

Personally, I don't believe in justice, but that's irrelevant.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

I'm not sure why you even consider me a friend.  Me being a decent mod doesn't make me friends with anyone.  If it's time for me to go, then it's time for me to go.  This should be an informed decision, not an emotional one.  And as I've been informed it was indeed Flame who banned Shard.  My mistake.

 

Personally, I don't believe in justice, but that's irrelevant.

Then it's one sided, but changes nothing about how I feel about the matter

[Kid Gambino]

"Merry Christmas unless you're a jew"

 

This was literally the title he had that helped make him banworthy

 

"Happy Christmas unless you're not a christian" - RIPPERINO, I HAS COMITTED A HATE CRIMEZ

 

I usually try to stay out of these threads due to my lack of longevity on the site, but after what I've seen from enguin, it's hard not to come to the conclusion that his intentions are ill-infested, as it oozes from how he responds and portrays himself on the website. I'm not jewish and I take no offense to what he's done, but that doesn't mean I can't discern right-from-wrong, and the fact that anyone would defend his actions at this point is quite baffling to me, it almost feels like the defenders are playing devil's advocate or have some personal bias towards him to warrant trying to rationalize what's right in front of them. I understand if this was a first offense and you're defending him simply on the fact that he was not given due process, but if he's a repeat-offender who is known for antisemitism, was un-banned to fix the injustice of the staff team not handling his case appropriately, and then he returns just to repeatedly post vague anti-semantic posts again, then I really don't think he's worth defending anymore.  I honestly think he enjoys trying to test how much he can get away with as far as breaking the rules and/or getting on the staff team's nerves, and I don't think that type of person needs to be hanging around the site at all.

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

That may be true Gambino but then it should be simple to just escalate the bans as needed instead of going for the finisher right there; especially with how bad the last time went down.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

 

I usually try to stay out of these threads due to my lack of longevity on the site, but after what I've seen from enguin, it's hard not to come to the conclusion that his intentions are ill-infested, as it oozes from how he responds and portrays himself on the website. I'm not jewish and I take no offense to what he's done, but that doesn't mean I can't discern right-from-wrong, and the fact that anyone would defend his actions at this point is quite baffling to me, it almost feels like the defenders are playing devil's advocate or have some personal bias towards him to warrant trying to rationalize what's right in front of them. I understand if this was a first offense and you're defending him simply on the fact that he was not given due process, but if he's a repeat-offender who is known for antisemitism, was un-banned to fix the injustice of the staff team not handling his case appropriately, and then he returns just to repeatedly post vague anti-semantic posts again, then I really don't think he's worth defending anymore.  I honestly think he enjoys trying to test how much he can get away with as far as breaking the rules and/or getting on the staff team's nerves, and I don't think that type of person needs to be hanging around the site at all.

That doesn't matter. He can be as much of an envelope pusher as he wants to be, until he pushes the envelope over the line (which neither his title nor works makes you free qualify as) he is not to be banned

 

If he posts stuff like shard did, which were nasty nasty posts about jews and how the holocaust may not have been wrong etc. Then I'll not defend him. Honestly what's next, banning me for saying "Shut it down, the goyim knowth" (it's a meme mods btw, please don't ban me for "antisemitism")

 

http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/the-goyim-know-shut-it-down

 

Enguin has a right to be a salty mofo and the mods have to put up with it and go through the proper channels to deal with him. If they cannot, as it seems most could not. They they are not fit for their job

[Flame Dragon]

Here is the bottom line on hate speech. It should be zero tolerance. The Holocaust of all things is not something you should joke about. It is not something you should treat lightly. Period. Any time it has been allowed to fly on the forum is a failure on the mod teams part. We need a line in the sand. I questioned how long of a ban this should be and I still agreed to it being permanet. When my fellow staff tell me this is a pattern of behavior on Enguin's part and has been warned about it in the past I'm going to believe them. We've already set precedent that this type of activity is going to result in a permanent ban with Shard.

 

I'll also like to point out the "Arbeit macht frei" isn't the only thing to take issue with in regards to his last status. He also added "A second Holocaust? When was the first?". Should we treat that as a joke? Should we be ok with it? Because even if that is a joke people damn well believe the Holocaust wasn't real. You don't get to pretend to be an anti-semiti. That isn't ok.

 

You want to argue that this shouldn't have been a permeant ban, fine. The ban itself isn't in question though.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Here is the bottom line on hate speech. It should be zero tolerance. The Holocaust of all things is not something you should joke about. It is not something you should treat lightly. Period. Any time it has been allowed to fly on the forum is a failure on the mod teams part. We need a line in the sand. I questioned how long of a ban this should be and I still agreed to it being permanet. When my fellow staff tell me this is a pattern of behavior on Enguin's part and has been warned about it in the past I'm going to believe them. We've already set precedent that this type of activity is going to result in a permanent ban with Shard.

 

I'll also like to point out the "Arbeit macht frei" isn't the only thing to take issue with in regards to his last status. He also added "A second Holocaust? When was the first?". Should we treat that as a joke? Should we be ok with it? Because even if that is a joke people damn well believe the Holocaust wasn't real. You don't get to pretend to be an anti-semiti. That isn't ok.

 

You want to argue that this shouldn't have been a permeant ban, fine. The ban itself isn't in question though.

Can you explain to me how Enguin's comments were worse than shard's? 

 

Can you show me how Enguin repeatedly called for death to the Jews or anything similar. Ok, and Snatch I think, said 6M was a mistake? And how  many people sheet posted on Enguin's status. It didn't get taken down right away either. Yeh we should, guess who else agrees with me

 

 

I don't make Holocaust jokes cause it rings a little too close to home for comfort. But that doesn't mean I get a right to ban or silence someone for something I personally don't like

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

Here is the bottom line on hate speech. It should be zero tolerance. The Holocaust of all things is not something you should joke about. It is not something you should treat lightly. Period. Any time it has been allowed to fly on the forum is a failure on the mod teams part. We need a line in the sand. I questioned how long of a ban this should be and I still agreed to it being permanet. When my fellow staff tell me this is a pattern of behavior on Enguin's part and has been warned about it in the past I'm going to believe them. We've already set precedent that this type of activity is going to result in a permanent ban with Shard.

 

I'll also like to point out the "Arbeit macht frei" isn't the only thing to take issue with in regards to his last status. He also added "A second Holocaust? When was the first?". Should we treat that as a joke? Should we be ok with it? Because even if that is a joke people damn well believe the Holocaust wasn't real. You don't get to pretend to be an anti-semiti. That isn't ok.

 

You want to argue that this shouldn't have been a permeant ban, fine. The ban itself isn't in question though.

Then it should have been officially made into a rule that it will result in permaban. Don't just decide what is perma-ban worthy and zero tolerance without making it abundantly clear.

 

And if you're going to continue ignoring what you told me you'd follow through with (the scaling system) then how do you expect my trust?

 

I honestly don't mind he was banned for what he did, a punishment is in order, but doing it in this way, especially with history, is just messy and you should know that by now.