Mod count [Serious]

[Dad]

Well I'll have to start trying in that case :smirk:

 

Dad, if it comes down to you stepping down to make way for a successor, I'll continue where you left off with pride and let your good work be known for the posterity.

 

You have the experience and the capability.  You also have a much more calm and collected head than I do.  Should I be voted out, I'm sure you'd make a fine replacement.

[Tormented]

The year is 2017 A.D. the discussion of removing Moderators still is taking place after multiple new dawns. Honestly, Enguin is just like a really bad Dae, if Dae only ever trolled and didn't ocassionally input in discussions to a decent degree.

 

I'm not heartbroken to see him banned, I didn't have any issues with him as a person but as a member of the site I don't think he actually provided anything, that is to say I don't know the exact cause of his ban, but I'm pretty sure he has had multiple chances when it has come to rulebreaking.

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

I think the fact that mods including Yui and Hi I'm Dad are lining up to support Hina's modship after permabanning Enguin shows just how capable of critical thought you guys are.

 

Hina openly and earnestly supports all forms of eugenics.

 

I support all forms of eugenics:

With our knowledge of the complete unalterability both of character and of mental faculties, we are led to the view that a real and thorough improvement of the human race might be reached not so much from outside as from within, not so much by theory and instruction as rather by the path of generation. Plato had something of the kind in mind when, in the fifth book of his Republic, he explained his plan for increasing and improving his warrior caste. If we could castrate all scoundrels and stick all stupid geese in a convent, and give men of noble character a whole harem, and procure men, and indeed thorough men, for all girls of intellect and understanding, then a generation would soon arise which would produce a better age than that of Pericles. -Based Schopenhauer :pray: @polaris

 

This is something I've argued with Hina about on a number of occasions, and something I always have and always will strongly disagree with (hence the "@polaris" at the end of the post). To say "I support all forms of eugenics" is to support both the thinking behind the holocaust and the execution itself, a form of eugenics. While holding this opinion alone might not be enough to disqualify someone from ever being a mod, the fact of the matter is that Hina so adamantly and actually believes this that she applies it to this site.

 

The quoted post was prompted by byzantine skill-testing questions concerned with physics such as "A 58 kip articulated bus with a frontal area of 63 ft^2 travels at a velocity of 65 mph on a freeway section with a given grade of 3.26%. Assuming that the density of air is 0.002378 slug/ft^3 and drag coefficient is 0.51, calculate the total resistance in lb to nearest whole number." being made pre-requisites to joining YCM, which Hina approves of because she supports all forms of eugenics. 

 

I have very little doubt in my mind that Hina would have someone permabanned for having genetic traits she doesn't like, because that's how eugenics works and that's consistent with barring anyone from joining who can't answer advanced physics questions.

 

Obviously, these questions would constitute an existential threat to the site by hemorrhaging its growth and intimidating anyone who'd want to join, and should be replaced with standard captchas or sums of two one-digit numbers.  

 

A notable nuance involved in Enguin's case is that he earnestly believes that the holocaust never happened, and has been consistent in this belief. 

https://forum.yugiohcardmaker.net/topic/365952-the-holocaust-fact-or-fiction/

https://forum.yugiohcardmaker.net/topic/365953-demolished/

https://forum.yugiohcardmaker.net/topic/368911-auea-ask-uncle-engy-anything/

 

While I pretty strongly disagree with this too and consider holocaust denial deluded and problematic, I can appreciate that someone wouldn't want to acknowledge something so horrible as actually having happened, and would glean the internet for arguments of which there are no shortage that the holocaust didn't happen. Yes, "arbeit macht frei" would seem like a status that's in awfully bad taste as would "Ask me my favourite toxic gas", but to someone who actually doesn't think the holocaust happened these comments have different implications. He wants to provoke discussion as to whether the holocaust happened, as he'd tried to in polls. That was understandably locked for being too heavy for polls with the suggestion that he take it to debates which is more suited to controversial topics, so he did take it to debates and that thread has since been "DEMOLISHED" (a title change applied to a number of other threads including threads started by other users), presumably for being something that can't be talked about. Enguin is not someone who advocates genocide or other Nazist views, he does advocate free speech and what he thinks is getting to the bottom of a history written by the victors.

 

I find a lot of the discourse I have with Hina to be rewarding/fun/intellectually stimulating, but she's honestly the last person among the active userbase who should ever become a mod.

 

Enguin's ban should at the very least be reduced to a strong temp. If the holocaust, genocide, genocide advocacy, and jokes involving any of those things were to be punished they should first be incorporated into the rules so people aren't blindsided, especially when the stipulations are so blurry that Enguin's comments constitute a PERMABAN and Dae's "Want to join me in planning the second holocaust?" gets nothing close. 

 

Okay, so. I generally try to be polite with everyone in any given conversation, especially now that I'm a mod, but I'm going to drop that for a bit special for you.

 

You're a funking idiot. Allegedly, you're a very intelligent person, but I've seen neither hide nor hair of this. If it's true, you have the potential to be an outstanding member here, so why waste it on...well, 99% of everything you do here? And it's cool if you want to be a shitposter that seems to live off provoking others - especially if it gets you perma'd someday - but if you're gonna shitpost, at least be funny. Which, you aren't. Idiot shitposting plus a lack of humor is a poor combination, so it wouldn't be a bad idea to fix one of those things. A poor shitposter, an awful comedian, a lackluster troll...whatever you're trying to accomplish on YCM, you're failing.

 

Unless your goal here is to be an utter failure of a person. You've got that in spades, so mission accomplished I guess.

 

Mission accomplished I guess indeed.

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

That was understandably locked for being too heavy for polls with the suggestion that he take it to debates which is more suited to controversial topics, so he did take it to debates and that thread has since been "DEMOLISHED" (a title change applied to a number of other threads including threads started by other users), presumably for being something that can't be talked about.

Would like to mention that the DEMOLISHED thing was Godzilla during the Halloween thread, who DEMOLISHED some older threads as part of their "gimmick". It just didn't go anywhere cause Godzilla vanished.

Figured I'd mention that for less confusion.

[Dad]

I'm plenty capable of critical thought. I've always been openly critical of myself and my actions. That's precisely why I told Winter to rally his troops.

 

While I don't believe that Enguin was some kind of alt-right NeoNazi extremist, I also don't believe that he was suddenly ignorant in doing basic research to find any information he could about topics in which he had questions.

 

Instead he decided to see how far he could get by pushing boundaries. This time he went out of bounds. And if this action I've agreed with is what makes the forum call for my head, then so be it.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

I don't think he has any reason to think the mods would suddenly make this so banworthy that they would ignore the rules they set up

[Flame Dragon]

Enguin's ban should at the very least be reduced to a strong temp. If the holocaust, genocide, genocide advocacy, and jokes involving any of those things were to be punished they should first be incorporated into the rules so people aren't blindsided, especially when the stipulations are so blurry that Enguin's comments constitute a PERMABAN and Dae's "Want to join me in planning the second holocaust?" gets nothing close.

I agree with this. I don't believe that type of thing should NEED to be in the rules, but I suppose wanting things more spelled out is fine enough. We are working on doing this now.

 

In a bid for full disclosure and because lord knows its going to start another storm we are looking into punishing the other people involved in this. It won't be a permanent, but it is coming.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Ex post facto laws aren't fair regardless of who they target. You set a precedent with Shard, it's on you to inform the public on "0 tolerance" before le epic knee jerk

 

---

 

Let me phrase this in a different way.

 

Dear Userbase

 

Hey guys, you know how I dealt with that one anti-Semite in a calm and collected way a few months back. Well funk you for thinking you were entitled to a similar process. I decided a while ago there was 0 tolerance for it. What? You can't read my mind? Well too funking bad. Go chew on some warning pts/bans

 

Love

Your competent Mod team

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

I agree with this.

 

Glad to hear it! Would that include the part about Enguin's ban being a blindside perma that should be reduced to a strong temp? :L

 

I also don't believe that he was suddenly ignorant in doing basic research to find any information he could about topics in which he had questions.

 

Not everyone researches from the same texts, and basic research is a far cry from incontrovertible omniscience. 

[Tourmaline]

Hina openly and earnestly supports all forms of eugenics.

 

 

This is something I've argued with Hina about on a number of occasions, and something I always have and always will strongly disagree with (hence the "@polaris" at the end of the post). To say "I support all forms of eugenics" is to support both the thinking behind the holocaust and the execution itself, a form of eugenics. While holding this opinion alone might not be enough to disqualify someone from ever being a mod, the fact of the matter is that Hina so adamantly and actually believes this that she applies it to this site.

 

The quoted post was prompted by byzantine skill-testing questions concerned with physics such as "A 58 kip articulated bus with a frontal area of 63 ft^2 travels at a velocity of 65 mph on a freeway section with a given grade of 3.26%. Assuming that the density of air is 0.002378 slug/ft^3 and drag coefficient is 0.51, calculate the total resistance in lb to nearest whole number." being made pre-requisites to joining YCM, which Hina approves of because she supports all forms of eugenics. 

 

I have very little doubt in my mind that Hina would have someone permabanned for having genetic traits she doesn't like, because that's how eugenics works and that's consistent with barring anyone from joining who can't answer advanced physics questions.

 

Obviously, these questions would constitute an existential threat to the site by hemorrhaging its growth and intimidating anyone who'd want to join, and should be replaced with standard captchas or sums of two one-digit numbers.  

 

he does advocate free speech and what he thinks is getting to the bottom of a history written by the victors.

 

I find a lot of the discourse I have with Hina to be rewarding/fun/intellectually stimulating, but she's honestly the last person among the active userbase who should ever become a mod.

That was facetious. I actually didn't even know those questions were filtering new members in the first place and I, in fact, prefer captcha to those. I was actually shocked that those questions were being used to filter new members and, even within eugenics, which values innate ability (fluid intelligence), I wouldn't exempt someone lacking crystallized knowledge from a community. I am a eugenicist, otherwise, I wouldn't be so fond of Schopenhauer, but I'm also aware genetics/talent merely complement and do not precede character and willpower.

 

Also, of course, anyone willing to integrate into the community should have a place in it. After they integrate, let their actions and merit decide their fate. The first paragraph of my profile expresses the sacred kernel of my philosophy. That precious passage glorifies willpower and effort before strong genetics.

[Dad]

Not everyone researches from the same texts, and basic research is a far cry from incontrovertible omniscience. 

 

So you're telling me that researching the holocaust is so difficult controversial that because Enguin refused to study it on his own, he should get a pass?  It's really not.

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

What makes you think Enguin hasn't studied the Holocaust on his own? 

 

Had the Axis powers won WW2, the "basic research" story would almost certainly be that the Holocaust never happened considering the Nazis' scrambled efforts to burn evidence and cover their tracks once they realized defeat was imminent. Whereas Holocaust denial is currently illegal in 17 countries, it could very well be illegal to reference the Holocaust ever having happened as it's effectively illegal to reference the Armenian Genocide having happened in Turkey. I believe that the Holocaust happened and happened to the extent that's generally cited due to Germany's pent up resentment after their defeat in WW1 and the terms thereof that left their nation impoverished, the resultant scapegoating of Jewish people, and the rest being history. Conversely, I don't believe the events of 9/11 unfolded as reported, and others consider my views on that distasteful when I sincerely believe it was an inside job. The Holocaust is a case where having a different interpretation regarding past historical events is criminalized. All we have to go by is what we read and what we feel to be credible. I can't tell you I have a comprehensive and surefire understanding of events that happened between 72-77 years ago, neither can you and obviously neither can Enguin. 

 

Basic research is not enough to have a comprehensive and surefire understanding of events that happened between 72-77 years ago, of what was exaggerated, what was covered up and what was true. Different people can come to different conclusions about past events when they come across different sources. 

 

Enguin was more pre-occupied with the Holocaust and whether it happened than most people here, and I don't think he brought it up on a repeated basis because he'd never bothered to research the subject and/or thought it was funny, but because the idea of the Holocaust was disturbing to him, he researched it a little too much, and came across dubious sources of which there are many on the internet that he either earnestly believed to be true, found easier to stomach, or a combination of both. From there, he had the strong belief the the Holocaust didn't in fact happen and that it was a fraudulent history written by the winners, an exaggeration of the evils of the other side to justify the actions taken by ours. This is among the most controversial opinions one can have and I'm glad I don't share it. I'd think that you'd have to be pretty disenfranchised and paranoid in general to come to such a conclusion. I think that Enguin expressed this using dark humour because he thought that it wouldn't come off as abrasively as expressing it in earnest, but instead he came off as callous.

 

Given an established framework, "Arbeit macht frei" is a phrase with a loaded history of forced labour and genocide, but for Enguin who actually didn't believe in that established framework it doesn't hold the same weight and that's an important distinction. 

 

At the end of the day, it's still permabanning someone for having the wrong opinion. In this case, it would appear to be a pretty safe and sane thing to do considering how many countries have outlawed Holocaust denial and I can't critique the decision too harshly considering it'd be normal recourse in a forum like this. That said, I do think the juxtaposition of this with throwing your hat in the ring for a fervent eugenicist is selective and I believe that having an open discussion with evidence brought to the table is a much braver and more humane way of going about this than criminalizing opinions held in earnest as if we're bastions of sure and inviolable scripture that to contradict is to be burned at the stake.    

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

I honestly have no idea where you get that idea, Polaris, did Enguin talk to you about this or are you just assuming based on whatever you observed?

[Kid Gambino]

What makes you think Enguin hasn't studied the Holocaust on his own? 

 

Had the Axis powers won WW2, the "basic research" story would almost certainly be that the Holocaust never happened considering the Nazis' scrambled efforts to burn evidence and cover their tracks once they realized defeat was imminent. Whereas Holocaust denial is currently illegal in 17 countries, it could very well be illegal to reference the Holocaust ever having happened as it's effectively illegal to reference the Armenian Genocide having happened in Turkey. I believe that the Holocaust happened and happened to the extent that's generally cited due to Germany's pent up resentment after their defeat in WW1 and the terms thereof that left their nation impoverished, the resultant scapegoating of Jewish people, and the rest being history. Conversely, I don't believe the events of 9/11 unfolded as reported, and others consider my views on that distasteful when I sincerely believe it was an inside job. The Holocaust is a case where having a different interpretation regarding past historical events is criminalized. All we have to go by is what we read and what we feel to be credible. I can't tell you I have a comprehensive and surefire understanding of events that happened between 72-77 years ago, neither can you and obviously neither can Enguin. 

 

Basic research is not enough to have a comprehensive and surefire understanding of events that happened between 72-77 years ago, of what was exaggerated, what was covered up and what was true. Different people can come to different conclusions about past events when they come across different sources. 

 

Enguin was more pre-occupied with the Holocaust and whether it happened than most people here, and I don't think he brought it up on a repeated basis because he'd never bothered to research the subject and/or thought it was funny, but because the idea of the Holocaust was disturbing to him, he researched it a little too much, and came across dubious sources of which there are many on the internet that he either earnestly believed to be true, found easier to stomach, or a combination of both. From there, he had the strong belief the the Holocaust didn't in fact happen and that it was a fraudulent history written by the winners, an exaggeration of the evils of the other side to justify the actions taken by ours. This is among the most controversial opinions one can have and I'm glad I don't share it. I'd think that you'd have to be pretty disenfranchised and paranoid in general to come to such a conclusion. I think that Enguin expressed this using dark humour because he thought that it wouldn't come off as abrasively as expressing it in earnest, but instead he came off as callous.

 

Given an established framework, "Arbeit macht frei" is a phrase with a loaded history of forced labour and genocide, but for Enguin who actually didn't believe in that established framework it doesn't hold the same weight and that's an important distinction. 

 

At the end of the day, it's still permabanning someone for having the wrong opinion. In this case, it would appear to be a pretty safe and sane thing to do considering how many countries have outlawed Holocaust denial and I can't critique the decision too harshly considering it'd be normal recourse in a forum like this. That said, I do think the juxtaposition of this with throwing your hat in the ring for a fervent eugenicist is selective and I believe that having an open discussion with evidence brought to the table is a much braver and more humane way of going about this than criminalizing opinions held in earnest as if we're bastions of sure and inviolable scripture that to contradict is to be burned at the stake.    

 

While it's nice you went through the effort of typing all of that on enguin's behalf, I think it's going to fall on deaf ears due to people usually having a tendency to believe their eyes rather than what someone else tells them. Speaking purely for myself, as someone who reviews threads pretty much on a daily basis (and rarely posts anymore due to the growing hostility of the site), my perception of enguin's posts, status comments, and just his behavior period reeked of malicious intent and a lack of care. He came off as nothing more than an internet troll and not once did I ever suspect that he could be something other than that. To you and the few, marginal others, he may have been funny, which is subjective, but to claim that he's beneficial to the health and future of the site? I'd have to say no, he's precisely the opposite. If the staff team allowed people with his type of boundary-pushing agenda to continue, the site would undoubtedly descend into chaos and toxicity, and then there would truly be no hope of welcoming newcomers to the site at that point.

 

Long story short: You can talk about what you think his intentions were all you want, but if enguin was half the decent person you claim he is, I'm certain a lot more people would be coming to his defense to speak on his character, rather than those who have been fighting to right some kind of unjustified technicality.

[mitchermitcher]

I will say I don't think Enguin's character is malicious. I cannot deny the lack of care though, it's why I enjoy his presence here.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

I honestly have no idea where you get that idea, Polaris, did Enguin talk to you about this or are you just assuming based on whatever you observed?

 

 

What makes you think Enguin hasn't studied the Holocaust on his own? 

 

Had the Axis powers won WW2, the "basic research" story would almost certainly be that the Holocaust never happened considering the Nazis' scrambled efforts to burn evidence and cover their tracks once they realized defeat was imminent. Whereas Holocaust denial is currently illegal in 17 countries, it could very well be illegal to reference the Holocaust ever having happened as it's effectively illegal to reference the Armenian Genocide having happened in Turkey. I believe that the Holocaust happened and happened to the extent that's generally cited due to Germany's pent up resentment after their defeat in WW1 and the terms thereof that left their nation impoverished, the resultant scapegoating of Jewish people, and the rest being history. Conversely, I don't believe the events of 9/11 unfolded as reported, and others consider my views on that distasteful when I sincerely believe it was an inside job. The Holocaust is a case where having a different interpretation regarding past historical events is criminalized. All we have to go by is what we read and what we feel to be credible. I can't tell you I have a comprehensive and surefire understanding of events that happened between 72-77 years ago, neither can you and obviously neither can Enguin. 

 

Basic research is not enough to have a comprehensive and surefire understanding of events that happened between 72-77 years ago, of what was exaggerated, what was covered up and what was true. Different people can come to different conclusions about past events when they come across different sources. 

 

Enguin was more pre-occupied with the Holocaust and whether it happened than most people here, and I don't think he brought it up on a repeated basis because he'd never bothered to research the subject and/or thought it was funny, but because the idea of the Holocaust was disturbing to him, he researched it a little too much, and came across dubious sources of which there are many on the internet that he either earnestly believed to be true, found easier to stomach, or a combination of both. From there, he had the strong belief the the Holocaust didn't in fact happen and that it was a fraudulent history written by the winners, an exaggeration of the evils of the other side to justify the actions taken by ours. This is among the most controversial opinions one can have and I'm glad I don't share it. I'd think that you'd have to be pretty disenfranchised and paranoid in general to come to such a conclusion. I think that Enguin expressed this using dark humour because he thought that it wouldn't come off as abrasively as expressing it in earnest, but instead he came off as callous.

 

Given an established framework, "Arbeit macht frei" is a phrase with a loaded history of forced labour and genocide, but for Enguin who actually didn't believe in that established framework it doesn't hold the same weight and that's an important distinction. 

 

At the end of the day, it's still permabanning someone for having the wrong opinion. In this case, it would appear to be a pretty safe and sane thing to do considering how many countries have outlawed Holocaust denial and I can't critique the decision too harshly considering it'd be normal recourse in a forum like this. That said, I do think the juxtaposition of this with throwing your hat in the ring for a fervent eugenicist is selective and I believe that having an open discussion with evidence brought to the table is a much braver and more humane way of going about this than criminalizing opinions held in earnest as if we're bastions of sure and inviolable scripture that to contradict is to be burned at the stake.    

I've been meaning to respond to this. Polaris you're wrong. And Enguin wants you to stop. This sounds a lot more like what Shard once told me. I don't think you're lying, I just think you confused Shard's actual views with Enguin. In eithercase:

 

 

Enguin was not a holocaust denier, ever. It was a joke. Please cease and desist 

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

Then there is no argument in his defence. Enguin's perceived right to troll about genocide for kicks isn't worth my time or yours. He can stay permabanned. 

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Shrugs, don't agree with banning for Gallow's Humor. Especially not without warning. It's perfectly plausible that Holocaust jokes should be barred, but banning people on the fly for rules you make up on the fly is a dangerous slippery slope I'm not going to condone.

I hope you remember the mods similarly targeted and pushed me out on liberal (as in robust, though "liberal" as in political works in the case of some mods too) readings on "hate" speech and wrong-think. It's honestly disappointing nothing has changed and even more so that the few defenders of speech, like you, have dwindled. I'm not opposed to them feeling that Holocaust jokes are off color, I felt that way back 8 months ago when Zai and Deadpool were doing it. It's how they did it that horrifies me. 

 

Yesterday, they took a clearly jovial post, and read it in the worst light to get enough smoke out of a trump'ed up charge. Upon confronted with various forms of logic:

 

Even mods engaged in it, are they not supposed to be the role models? *shrugs*

You dealt with it differently in the past, when did the rules change? *shrugs*

Why did you ignore all the rules you agreed to *shrugs*

 

Shut up, it's not gonna change

 

---

 

When you pick your own successors and co-workers, rather than pick people on merits (see recent selections for modships, or rather see who they passed over), you create an echo-chamber of yes-men (see the plethora of disagreement among mod decisions recently). Your job becomes less important than your self-preservation . We see that vividly now.

 

They forced out the one guy who was willing to question them and force brakes on their worse instincts. The only other guy that's reasonable has most likely become the fall guy. 

 

The team is resistant to change of any sort. Their own words mean little to them (see Night's recurring posts and the PR faux). There is no way to hold any of them accountable (see how long it took to demote Roxas despite clear targeting), and at some point, you have to wonder, is there any use asking an absolutist tyrant (their words, they called themselves a dictatorship) for change that you cannot force?

 

Trying to get change on YCM is calling a bluff when you know they have straight aces. It's tiring, unproductive, and a great way to make sure you're the next person that gets KGB'd for some bullshit reason

 

---

 

Why do I care, or try? Because I genuinely like this place and it pains me to see it fall in activity. The mods claim they're doing what they're doing to make this place better. I wonder how many people left this site because they were sick of Enguin. Willing to bet it's not many. 

 

[hr[

 

Since this all started with a post about Jewish people, I might as well end this post with a poem about Jewish people

 

"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me"

 

This is why I speak out, Enguin didn't speak out for me, and today he's gone by the same method they used to can me. If I don't speak out for Enguin today, it won't end with Snatch or Dae.

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

While I appreciate your care and effort, gallows humour is from the gallows, not the peanut gallery. It's one thing to laugh in the face of one's own suffering or on behalf of the plight of others, it's another thing to laugh at others' suffering.

 

It was out of optimism that I pled insanity on Enguin's behalf. Now that he's clarified his stance as one of feeble sadism, his failure to meet the mods' demands for him to cease and desist are validated as precedent enough to ban him. If ever I were to stoop to that level of callous disrespect for human life, I hope that the mods would come for me. 

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

While I appreciate your care and effort, gallows humour is from the gallows, not the peanut gallery. It's one thing to laugh in the face of one's own suffering or on behalf of the plight of others, it's another thing to laugh at others' suffering.

 

It was out of optimism that I pled insanity on Enguin's behalf. Now that he's clarified his stance as one of feeble sadism, his failure to meet the mods' demands for him to cease and desist are validated as precedent enough to ban him. If ever I were to stoop to that level of callous disrespect for human life, I hope that the mods would come for me.

 

Wait, so if Enguin is a Jew that makes it all right?

 

What demands? He got his previous WP for the Sakura thread, not for Holocaust joke. He never got a C/D for this afaik. Again, the bigger problem is they never told anyone about a zero tolerance, before acting on it. There was no precedent

 

At the very least, I hope that you publically disagreeing with me puts an end to the meme that I have some kinda organized riot mob which I can mobilize

 

Your standards and logic here have more holes than Swiss cheese. They're not gonna stop at Holocaust jokes to counter "disregard for human life"

[Dad]

I talked to Enguin myself. He doesn't want to come back.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

I talked to Enguin myself. He doesn't want to come back.

I posted the skype from him

 

He (1) wanted people to stop saying he was a Holocaust denier (2) wants his ban undone on principle even if he's no longer interested in coming back.

 

That's what this whole thing is about. I'm not trying to get my friend off the hook as much as share his concern that the way he was banned was gross. Same reason I stood up for someone who hates me (Snatch)

 

 

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

Wait, so if Enguin is a Jew that makes it all right?

 

It really wouldn't. Exploiting the genocide of millions as bait for reactions by pretending you don't think it happened would still be every bit as callous if he were Jewish. 

 

What demands? He got his previous WP for the Sakura thread, not for Holocaust joke. He never got a C/D for this afaik. Again, the bigger problem is they never told anyone about a zero tolerance, before acting on it. There was no precedent

 

In the moderator report thread Sakura says Enguin was told to shape up since his last ban. I don't know what was said to Enguin, but presumably there were specific things he was told not to do and he did them anyway. In that case, precedent was established that was disregarded. 

 

I don't agree with some of the terminology Sakura used. I feel "anti-Semitic" in particular is a problematic umbrella term that conflates criticism of Judaism as a religion and the political philosophy of Zionism with racial discrimination towards Semitic people including ethnically Jewish, Arab, and Assyrian people. Religious and political criticism are not equatable to racism because religion and politics are within someone's control and race is not. It's also worth noting that many people who weren't Semitic were also murdered in the Holocaust, so chalking the issue of Enguin's Holocaust-trolling down to "anti-Semitism" omits the value of the lives of the millions of others murdered. That said, such nuances don't do anything for Enguin's case.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

It really wouldn't. Exploiting the genocide of millions as bait for reactions by pretending you don't think it happened would still be every bit as callous if he were Jewish. 

 

 

In the moderator report thread Sakura says Enguin was told to shape up since his last ban. I don't know what was said to Enguin, but presumably there were specific things he was told not to do and he did them anyway. In that case, precedent was established that was disregarded. 

 

I don't agree with some of the terminology Sakura used. I feel "anti-Semitic" in particular is a problematic umbrella term that conflates criticism of Judaism as a religion and the political philosophy of Zionism with racial discrimination towards Semitic people including ethnically Jewish, Arab, and Assyrian people. Religious and political criticism are not equatable to racism because religion and politics are within someone's control and race is not. It's also worth noting that many people who weren't Semitic were also murdered in the Holocaust, so chalking the issue of Enguin's Holocaust-trolling down to "anti-Semitism" omits the value of the lives of the millions of others murdered. That said, such nuances don't do anything for Enguin's case.

Sure it does, if Enguin was told to shape up for making fun of the mods

 

And he does something totally different that he had no ideal would suddenly be penalized with 0 tolerance, it's hardly his fault. The mods should have been upfront about what's ok and not. It's their failing

[.Rooster]

It's also worth noting that many people who weren't Semitic were also murdered in the Holocaust, so chalking the issue of Enguin's Holocaust-trolling down to "anti-Semitism" omits the value of the lives of the millions of others murdered. That said, such nuances don't do anything for Enguin's case.

 

Most people tend forget the other 6-8 million in general (especially Anti-Semites), so that's probably why the Holocaust trolling was considered as Anti-Semitism.