Mod count [Serious]

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

You either misunderstand me, or you are deliberately warping what I said.

 

As a moderator, you are part of a TEAM of moderators. You discuss issues with one another to make decisions that can affect the site as a whole. You don't have to be buddy x buddy with everyone, but you have to be able to have civil conversations and debates with the rest of the team. If you are constantly picking fights, being misinterpreted (due to being overly patronizing or using unnecessarily complicated terminology that mask your meaning) or otherwise struggle to have such discussions...that makes it harder to work with you as a member of the team.

 

That was my original opposition to Hina a long time ago. I have described her phrasing and tone (to her, no less) as being "me taken up to 11, and then twisted a little more". I use larger or more precise vocabulary, and reveal very little emotionally. But Hina was on a whole other level with that, to the point where I could barely understand her, even if I used a dictionary on every word I didn't recognize. It was nearly impossible to have even a NORMAL conversation, much less one where the goal is to understand one another's perspectives of an mundane situation.

 

It has gotten much better, but it's not difficult to see why this type of extreme personality might rub people, members and mods alike, the wrong way.

 

It's been noted that the team can be extremely dysfunctional when it comes to communicating with one another, in addition to members. Why on earth would it be surprising that someone who is naturally difficult to communicate with in even the most basic fashion might not be an ideal option?!

The former. My apologies. Never personally had that with Hina. 

 

It's not difficult to see, I've just never had trouble understanding Hina like that. 

 

Did you raise these concerns with Black, Koko, and Dad? Three who I assume were favorable to Hina? Did they share these concerns?

I've gotta put a note here:

I don't particularly know how being a mod would help me push those game-alteration ideas in a different manner than as a regular member. People keep having the same freedom to be engaged with any ideas there or to just say next. Also, those idea threads more often than not go largely unnoticed (which hasn't stopped me from posting random ideas over the years) so I don't think it'd be a good idea to further push them in any way xD

From the ideas I suggested, the one that stuck around longer was the one that turned into Chance Format (I wonder if anybody remembers that, Pika was still a mod back then). That one ended up annoying a handful of members that kept seeing the tag.

 

Though, thank you for the complement there Winter.

I'd never force you to enter for a modship sleepy. 

 

If you're not comfortable, it shouldn't be hoisted on you

 

Stickies mainly. Look at Dad and his wave of reforms in General and more recently Misc and C/O for examples

[Tourmaline]

You either misunderstand me, or you are deliberately warping what I said.

 

As a moderator, you are part of a TEAM of moderators. You discuss issues with one another to make decisions that can affect the site as a whole. You don't have to be buddy x buddy with everyone, but you have to be able to have civil conversations and debates with the rest of the team. If you are constantly picking fights, being misinterpreted (due to being overly patronizing or using unnecessarily complicated terminology that mask your meaning) or otherwise struggle to have such discussions...that makes it harder to work with you as a member of the team.

 

That was my original opposition to Hina a long time ago. I have described her phrasing and tone (to her, no less) as being "me taken up to 11, and then twisted a little more". I use larger or more precise vocabulary, and reveal very little emotionally. But Hina was on a whole other level with that, to the point where I could barely understand her, even if I used a dictionary on every word I didn't recognize. It was nearly impossible to have even a NORMAL conversation, much less one where the goal is to understand one another's perspectives of an mundane situation.

 

It has gotten much better, but it's not difficult to see why this type of extreme personality might rub people, members and mods alike, the wrong way.

 

It's been noted that the team can be extremely dysfunctional when it comes to communicating with one another, in addition to members. Why on earth would it be surprising that someone who is naturally difficult to communicate with in even the most basic fashion might not be an ideal option?!

Casual prose is no issue for me. I have a lot of confidence in myself and would be eager to shift my behavior to something more strategic and synergistic, especially after the experiencing I have moderating in countless places.

 

Dad wouldn't have had confidence in me otherwise, of course. I also, as you remember, have read various criticisms of yours regarding me that in fact add up to positives and you know very well competence, objectivity and impartiality are ez pz for me.

 

And I know of course that communication is optimally cooperative and for my points to not be misconstrued I have to present them as elegantly and clearly as possible. The "me up to 11" is just for fun here and there.

 

Also I love Dad.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Who doesn't love Dad? Honestly the best mod we've had in years. 

 

"Casual prose" never change Hina XD

[evilfusion]

I probably mentioned those concerns. That, or it was already known, because I'm fairly sure Dad said there was improvement. I'd have to crawl through the history, and I don't even remember how long ago this was.

 

Also, going to bed shortly.

 

Casual prose is no issue for me. I have a lot of confidence in myself and would be eager to shift my behavior to something more strategic and synergistic, especially after the experiencing I have moderating in countless places.

Dad wouldn't have had confidence in me otherwise, of course. I also, as you remember, have read various criticisms of yours regarding me that in fact add up to positives and you know very well competence, objectivity and impartiality are ez pz for me.

And I know of course that communication is optimally cooperative and for my points to not be misconstrued I have to present them as elegantly and clearly as possible. The "me up to 11" is just for fun here and there.

Also I love Dad.

 

I feel like I've heard this before. Probably one of our later PM conversations.

 

I just re-read our first convo. I literally comment on my struggle to understand you about 4 times. With the "up to 11" bit being the first thing I say in response to your message.

 

 

*blink blink*

 

It's like if someone took my odd speaking habits, somewhat peculiar word choices, and emotional detachment and then turned the dial up to 11.

 

 

 

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

I mean the hardest time I have understanding is when Hina quotes some obscure, often theocratic, philosophical text at me 

 

And that's more due to me being atheist rather than her being obtuse with malice aforethought

 

It's a matter of reading up on who the flying funk "based Schopenhauer" is more than anything

[BANZAI!!!!]

Why was this thread left in Misc? Like I get why it started here, but it really should have been moved it Comments since it became a serious discuss on an issue we've been talking about for almost a week now. YCM is way harder on its staff than most places, but they aren't doing it just because. People always act with a reason. No matter how poorly they may delver it, if someone is criticizing you, try to look for what actual point they may have. Sometimes they will just be blowing smoke, but that isn't the case here. Honestly I feel like every time they've called us out on something we've said they had a point. They might not be tactful in how they do it, but they've always had a point. You say "if you have issue with me, come talk to me" which is super valid, but they aren't going to go to you if they don't think you listen. And honestly, I can't say you do when, as highlighted, someone said your response to criticism is to tell people to shut up and then you turn around and do just that. People aren't going to talk to you, they aren't going to think you can change, if at every opportunity you dismiss any criticism people have.

Jeez I totally missed this amidst everything yesterday.

 

I wanna say that that rant was definitely not me being level headed or all that fair. I was mad as hell and that was basically months of frustration coming out at once, and for that I want to apologize. To everyone, I mean. I usually don’t let my emotions get the best of me like they did yesterday and I want to take a second to say I’m sorry that I let it happen. It was pretty damned unprofessional of me.

 

As far as what I just quoted, you basically summed up what I was kind of getting at when I was here yelling at the forum Flame. The site’s super hard on us staff, and they don’t go about talking to us in a productive way (a lot of the time. This is definitely not a blanket statement). Of course they have their reasons. I don’t think anyone here does things just to antagonize people.

 

And about me specifically? I can see that the general impression of me is that I don’t listen or take criticism. In a lot of ways that is true. I’m naturally very stubborn. I’m going to make it a personal goal to appear more receptive to the users here, so long as they’ll try and come talk to me.

 

Sorry if this is insufficent and short, I’m at work and I can’t take too long to articulate everything. If anyone has stuff to talk to me about feel free to respond or come talk to me in pm/skype/discord. I’ll be in and out all day.

[(GigaDrillBreaker)]

The site’s super hard on us staff, and they don’t go about talking to us in a productive way (a lot of the time. This is definitely not a blanket statement).

I am currently on my break, so I will just focus on this statement for now.

 

You are wrong. Sure, sometimes people whine publicly for no benefit, but that is the vast minority.

 

I have spent the last week exchanging PMs with Flame, and the last few days exchanging them with Night. Both conversations have gone quite well, all things considered. Despite what many people like to claim, I'm pretty good at civil discussion.

 

And yes, a large part of each conversation was me expressing my belief that you do not belong on the mod team, and explaining why. But the attack has never been a personal one. I didn't claim you to be a bad person, I didn't claim you to be abusing power. I just detailed how you have failed to perform in either position you had, and why your defenses were not valid ones.

 

I spoke about your rant, and how it showed an overwhelming lack of professionalism, as well as how such a mindset actively harms mod-member relations. I talked about how despite your claims, the positions you did very little with could and should be used for helping the community grow, as well as helping it become a community worth being a part of.

 

I have spent countless hours working through this, despite it being the busiest two weeks of the year for my job, and large amounts of personal turmoil. So for you to say that I do not have a right to complain, that my complaints, already affirmed by two super moderators as well as another moderator, are invalid, was a massive insult.

 

You say you will improve, but that has been said far too many times already. Not only have you done very little with your position, there are others who could, should, and hopefully will do vastly more.

 

So don't say I don't go about talking to staff in a productive way. It is a piss-poor excuse for your lack of responsibility, and this last week has only proven right the concerns I raised about you since January.

[BANZAI!!!!]

I am currently on my break, so I will just focus on this statement for now.

You are wrong. Sure, sometimes people whine publicly for no benefit, but that is the vast minority.

I have spent the last week exchanging PMs with Flame, and the last few days exchanging them with Night. Both conversations have gone quite well, all things considered. Despite what many people like to claim, I'm pretty good at civil discussion.

And yes, a large part of each conversation was me expressing my belief that you do not belong on the mod team, and explaining why. But the attack has never been a personal one. I didn't claim you to be a bad person, I didn't claim you to be abusing power. I just detailed how you have failed to perform in either position you had, and why your defenses were not valid ones.

I spoke about your rant, and how it showed an overwhelming lack of professionalism, as well as how such a mindset actively harms mod-member relations. I talked about how despite your claims, the positions you did very little with could and should be used for helping the community grow, as well as helping it become a community worth being a part of.

I have spent countless hours working through this, despite it being the busiest two weeks of the year for my job, and large amounts of personal turmoil. So for you to say that I do not have a right to complain, that my complaints, already affirmed by two super moderators as well as another moderator, are invalid, was a massive insult.

You say you will improve, but that has been said far too many times already. Not only have you done very little with your position, there are others who could, should, and hopefully will do vastly more.

So don't say I don't go about talking to staff in a productive way. It is a piss-poor excuse for your lack of responsibility, and this last week has only proven right the concerns I raised about you since January.

Again, that rant isn’t really my general mindset. It was frustration getting the better of me. Again, it was super unproffessional and not something i’m going to do again.

 

It wasn’t even specifically directed at you, either. That being said I’d appreciate actually being informed of when people bring issues involving me to the supers, or hell, even including me in the conversation. Its been literal months since anyone outside of the mod team has so much as even mentioned my performance in passing. The last time i remember talking to anyone about the subject was with you in... march? Whenever it was that I was working on the RP rules. I get that I need to take some initiative but the complete lack of communication with me is incredibly frustrating. I’d almost even call it unfair, since its very hard to work on specific things if no one actually bothers to bring any of it to my attention. Saying I need to improve and then leaving me entirely to my own devices with no input from any source is not a productive way of going about things. It almost feels like people want me to fail, and that’s the impression I’ve gotten from you and to a lesser extent YCM as a whole since I got promoted.

[Blake]

Again, that rant isn’t really my general mindset. It was frustration getting the better of me. Again, it was super unproffessional and not something i’m going to do again.

 

It wasn’t even specifically directed at you, either. That being said I’d appreciate actually being informed of when people bring issues involving me to the supers, or hell, even including me in the conversation. Its been literal months since anyone outside of the mod team has so much as even mentioned my performance in passing. The last time i remember talking to anyone about the subject was with you in... march? Whenever it was that I was working on the RP rules. I get that I need to take some initiative but the complete lack of communication with me is incredibly frustrating. I’d almost even call it unfair, since its very hard to work on specific things if no one actually bothers to bring any of it to my attention. Saying I need to improve and then leaving me entirely to my own devices with no input from any source is not a productive way of going about things. It almost feels like people want me to fail, and that’s the impression I’ve gotten from you and to a lesser extent YCM as a whole since I got promoted.

Answer this for me, from the point of view of the average member, especially after your large post: Why should a random member trust you? Why would they approach you?

 

"Shut up."

"You're irrational."

"YCM is known for being irrational."

"funk you."

"You're being shitty."

 

And so on. Not to mention that you put people down, despite saying they should give you feedback or communciate with you, while actively ignoring them or making excuses for why you cannot follow through.

 

You can backpedal, saying this was out of frustration... But there's a problem there that is two-fold.

 

The first is that everyone has moments like that. That doesn't make them okay, and it doesn't mean that a lukewarm apology proves anything. People struggle with life, jobs, depression. People get exasperated. People say things they know they shouldn't. It's not okay to say "I was frustrated" and expect that to make what you did go away.

 

The other is that you have repeatedly told the site the things you said in that post. You said that it was shitty to comment on things as they happened, to wait until they were done to even discuss them, and otherwise just tried to shut people down. You can't say it's not your general mindset when your past actions prove that it is.

 

I also know you're wrong about the RP rules, not necessarily lying. That was June. And that was handled fairly poorly as well, based on a small amount of evidence and word of mouth.

 

So if you seem to look down on members, tell them to stop any time they try, and haven't appeared to make any efforts... Why would anyone come to you? Saying that you're a nice guy contradicts your actions that led to this situation. People would feel much more comfortable PMing Flame, Sakura, Evilfusion, or Night than you, when assured that they saw the problems, too. So either they never told you things, or you did have the feedback, despite it not being direct. 

 

Even then, you had plenty of public feedback. Some of which addresses the very points in your large post, only months ago.

 

And as an aside: You say you don't do much publicly, but then want people to give you feedback? Doing stuff in the mod forum is not an inherent qualification, as any mod can and would be part of that, and you can't use it as a shield to say that you do do things. Your responses to any idea that you don't do anything were extremely vague, bar "developing ideas and answering PMs", the latter of which is hard to believe when you say that few people interact with you. People don't want to know if you do discussions in the mod forum, because that's just assumed to be the case. They want to know if you've realistically done duties for either of your roles, or as a leading member of the site in general. You give them sweeping vague statements instead.

 

I had hope for you. I wanted you to succeed. I didn't want what happened with PR to be a mistake, and I didn't want you to be what people said you would. However, I can't deny that you've dropped the ball at nearly every opportunity, if not dropped and kicked it with all of your might. 

 

I ended up getting asked to PM the supers about your post yesterday, so I reluctantly did. I didn't tell them to demote you, only assessed how you handled yourself and extended my thoughts. And, if I'm honest? That post was the absolute biggest funk-up you could have made. You pulled the mask off a bit too far this time, and it cannot be undone. You confirmed that you hold on to the same sentiments as before, that you are, as I said, "Moderator first, member never". That you look down on the memberbase as a collective. That your promotion really was a mistake. I'm sorry to say it. I'm out.

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

Again, that rant isn’t really my general mindset. It was frustration getting the better of me. Again, it was super unproffessional and not something i’m going to do again.

 

The rant was actually refreshing and humanizing. I'd rather have an honest and human staff than a "civil" and "professional" one that's out for blood. I'd rather the staff's frustrations with a vocal and demanding memberbase be voiced than culminate in something as egregious as Winter's ban without any sort of established process.

 

That said, there's obviously work to be done and I feel as I've always felt that it starts with amending the rules with specific and avoidable punishments for specific and avoidable actions, so that when warnings and bans take place there isn't an argument to be had as to whether it was fair or not. 

 

I have spent countless hours working through this, despite it being the busiest two weeks of the year for my job, and large amounts of personal turmoil. So for you to say that I do not have a right to complain, that my complaints, already affirmed by two super moderators as well as another moderator, are invalid, was a massive insult.

 

Nobody likes being backstabbed. Don't expect him to praise you for the "civility" with which you do it. 

 

competence, objectivity and impartiality are ez pz for me.

 

It's a hard and thankless job. It would not be ez and it would not be pz. 

[BANZAI!!!!]

Answer this for me, from the point of view of the average member, especially after your large post: Why should a random member trust you? Why would they approach you?

 

"Shut up."

"You're irrational."

"YCM is known for being irrational."

"funk you."

"You're being shitty."

 

And so on. Not to mention that you put people down, despite saying they should give you feedback or communciate with you, while actively ignoring them or making excuses for why you cannot follow through.

 

You can backpedal, saying this was out of frustration... But there's a problem there that is two-fold.

 

The first is that everyone has moments like that. That doesn't make them okay, and it doesn't mean that a lukewarm apology proves anything. People struggle with life, jobs, depression. People get exasperated. People say things they know they shouldn't. It's not okay to say "I was frustrated" and expect that to make what you did go away.

 

The other is that you have repeatedly told the site the things you said in that post. You said that it was shitty to comment on things as they happened, to wait until they were done to even discuss them, and otherwise just tried to shut people down. You can't say it's not your general mindset when your past actions prove that it is.

 

I also know you're wrong about the RP rules, not necessarily lying. That was June. And that was handled fairly poorly as well, based on a small amount of evidence and word of mouth.

 

So if you seem to look down on members, tell them to stop any time they try, and haven't appeared to make any efforts... Why would anyone come to you? Saying that you're a nice guy contradicts your actions that led to this situation. People would feel much more comfortable PMing Flame, Sakura, Evilfusion, or Night than you, when assured that they saw the problems, too. So either they never told you things, or you did have the feedback, despite it not being direct. 

 

Even then, you had plenty of public feedback. Some of which addresses the very points in your large post, only months ago.

 

And as an aside: You say you don't do much publicly, but then want people to give you feedback? Doing stuff in the mod forum is not an inherent qualification, as any mod can and would be part of that, and you can't use it as a shield to say that you do do things. Your responses to any idea that you don't do anything were extremely vague, bar "developing ideas and answering PMs", the latter of which is hard to believe when you say that few people interact with you. People don't want to know if you do discussions in the mod forum, because that's just assumed to be the case. They want to know if you've realistically done duties for either of your roles, or as a leading member of the site in general. You give them sweeping vague statements instead.

 

I had hope for you. I wanted you to succeed. I didn't want what happened with PR to be a mistake, and I didn't want you to be what people said you would. However, I can't deny that you've dropped the ball at nearly every opportunity, if not dropped and kicked it with all of your might. 

 

I ended up getting asked to PM the supers about your post yesterday, so I reluctantly did. I didn't tell them to demote you, only assessed how you handled yourself and extended my thoughts. And, if I'm honest? That post was the absolute biggest funk-up you could have made. You pulled the mask off a bit too far this time, and it cannot be undone. You confirmed that you hold on to the same sentiments as before, that you are, as I said, "Moderator first, member never". That you look down on the memberbase as a collective. That your promotion really was a mistake. I'm sorry to say it. I'm out.

See, i saw that PM this morning, and as soon as I did, I made a thread in RP asking about issues in the section, with me or otherwise. I’d love to see things brought to my attention that way, because its concrete information I can act on as opposed to hearsay or my instincts.

 

My rant yesterday was a big mistake, i realized that more or less after I wrote it. Straight up, with no hyperbole I don’t see myself as a condscending person nor do I conciously look down on anyone, on YCM or otherwise. I’ve been a member since 2009, seen people be bullied, pushed away, and antagonized by the community. Been on the buisness end of it here and moreso in real life too. I make it a personal point to avoid being antagonistic or malicious because I know how it feels to be looked down on, persecuted, and ridiculed, and I see it all the time. It got to me. Drama at my job got to me, other things got to me, and something had to get out. Thats what it was.

 

I’m past worrying about whether or not I stay on the site staff, but regardless of the outcome I want to make it abundantly clear that all I’ve ever wanted to do with this job is lend a hand and make YCM a more welcoming, friendlier place. I’ve been trying to do that in RP for years now, and I won’t go as far as to take credit for the upswing in its activity, but I’d like to think that all the hours i’ve spent interacting with people, and taking every opportunity possible to mediate, give advice, or just be there for people when they needed someone to talk to, has contributed to its growth into the place it is now. I was the one who set the precident for off-site chatrooms, i’ve been on the board for or personally authored several of the section’s guides, etc. And this isn’t me listing accomplishments in some vain attempt to make myself look better, either, its me trying to illustrate what I set out to do and what I want to do, whether i’m a staff member or some schmuck hanging out in RP.

 

So, Black, did the mask come too far off? I’d say a better analogy is that my face got a bit too muddy. Am I saying I’ll do better? Yes. Even if and when I get demoted. Feel free to disbelieve. I’ve been doing a bang up job of building trust, after all, but know that this is something I’m setting out to do regardless of opinion.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

You said you would be better before as well. When evil promoted you post trial period, people were annoyed, then too you blamed the users for witch hunting and told us to deal with it. The next day or so you made the transparency tracking thread.

 

One has to question if the proper process is userbase outrage -> mod backlash -> mod apology -> temporary measure

Why are you "serious" this time

[BANZAI!!!!]

You said you would be better before as well. When evil promoted you post trial period, people were annoyed, then too you blamed the users for witch hunting and told us to deal with it. The next day or so you made the transparency tracking thread.

One has to question if the proper process is userbase outrage -> mod backlash -> mod apology -> temporary measureWhy are you "serious" this time

Call it a change of heart. And if its insufficient, so be it. I started a discussion about me staying on in the mod forum earlier today, so we’ll see where it goes.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

In light of Enguin's extra judicial ban, gonna redouble my call for Black to be modded and certain others to be demoted. It seems like black and evil (to a degree) were the only ones controlling the mod teams impulses. Right now it's a trigger happy draconian shitfest and needs to be scrapped and redone

[Simping For Hina]

Winter should be mod, he has my vote.

Polaris, too.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

I want Jesse to be a mod

 

Black

Hina

Polaris too

 

Broke. N has done a good job so far so I am inclined to support his continued modship

 

If Sakura had anything to do with Enguin's ban, he needs to go as well

[Sunshine Jesse]

I'd be willing to give it a shot ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Dad]

I want Jesse to be a mod

 

Black

Hina

Polaris too

 

Broke. N has done a good job so far so I am inclined to support his continued modship

 

If Sakura had anything to do with Enguin's ban, he needs to go as well

 

We all had something to do with his ban.  

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

I'd be willing to give it a shot ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Someone who knows RP, and is more evenheaded than our current RP mod no less ^^

We all had something to do with his ban.  

Then everyone involved should step down. Sorry

 

Edit:

 

Did Smear and Broke. N really have something to do with the ban? lol

[Simping For Hina]

Dae for mod.

[Dad]

Someone who knows RP, and is more evenheaded than our current RP mod no less ^^

Then everyone involved should step down. Sorry

 

Edit:

 

Did Smear and Broke. N really have something to do with the ban? lol

 

Smear was not involved.

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

Polaris, too.

Polaris too

 

Thanks, but I have no desire to associate myself with this clique of scum. 

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Thanks, but I have no desire to associate myself with this clique of scum. 

Most of them should be gone

Dae for mod.

If you think you can actually do something productive to boost activity in GFX then pretty sure people would want to hear your plan

[Dad]

Make sure if you replace me that you find someone who tries equally or harder than I have for General and Debates.  I recommend Hina.

[Tourmaline]

Well I'll have to start trying in that case :smirk:

 

Dad, if it comes down to you stepping down to make way for a successor, I'll continue where you left off with pride and let your good work be known for the posterity.