Thar’s Permaban

[The Warden]

As you may or may not know, the member known as Thar was permabanned last year for breaking the very important rule of not posting pornography, which he was found guilty of. However, a short while ago Thar has gotten into contact with the mod team requesting the end of his permaban so he can join the YCM community once more. Naturally this is a very serious subject for us mods, as because if there is at least one thing the mod team wants to make sure of is that we make our permabans final, and that we don’t go back on them.

 

HOWEVER, we as a team are all aware of the situation leading up to Thar’s ban, and the abnormal circumstances surrounding it. For those that do not know, Thar was maliciously harassed on the previously aligned Discord server by two other members, and he, to put it delicately, had a mental breakdown that resulted in him posting a NSFW image that resulted in his immediate permaban. We understand the situation and do sympathise with Thar and his need to be away from YCM for his mental health and well-being, however, we still cannot abide by his choice of actions in spite of his mental state at the time.

 

I am informing you all of this because we as a team wish to move in a new direction; to not make decisions in haste without careful deliberation and collaboration. We as a team know that Thar was a good member who never tried to start trouble, but there is the impasse between wishing to uphold the standards and severity of the permaban and welcoming back Thar. We want permabans to mean something, but we also do feel that Thar shouldn’t be the example here. Discussions are still ongoing at this time, but we welcome the thoughts and opinions of the community Thar could very well return too, if we can see he would be welcomed openly and not be ostracised for his past infraction.

[Blake]

As someone who was around when it happened, but not involved... There's nothing I could have really done. Same for the team. It was cut and dry, albeit sad.

 

The team has mentioned wanting Permas to have time limits before. If it's been at least a year (I... think it's close?), I'd say consider it. His particular meltdown wasn't akin to some other members, be they those who posted porn or simply off the rails, and it is a bit more iffy.

 

I'd just say not to set a hard standard. Case-by-case with Permas in general.

[(GigaDrillBreaker)]

Strong disagree.

 

I love the guy, and truly do enjoy his presence, but accountability is important in matters like this.

 

Banning him was not a poorly thought out reaction in any way. It was the correct response, and the response he intended for when he did it. Regardless of his mental state at the time, he posted NSFW content knowing he would be permabanned for it, with the express purpose of being permabanned. Even if it was an impulse decision, it shouldn't be disregarded. What stops him from making the same impulse decision again? It's not like he learned a lesson that posting porn is wrong, he knew it from the start.

 

His goal was to be banned forever, and that is how it should be.

[Sleepy]

Huh, this is troublesome.

It isn't the first time I've heard of something like this, but was he the one that intentionally wanted to get banned so he could be sure he'd stay away? I know somebody did that at some point.

I guess people can be banned on request, which he should have done.

I'm tempted to agree on voting him get a chance when his ban gets to a year old.

Though, one more thing: Has he been banned in the past prior to this time? or has he done something like this before (even if it didn't warrant him the ban)? How much of a precedent does he have for potentially falling back into the same issue?

 

I know we all can do some things without thinking at times, and one should not be accountable forever for screwing up if it's an isolated incident, but on the other hand, posting porn is pretty big.

 

I don't really know him a whole lot, tbh. I don't even have a solid opinion of him right now. Has he been active all this time on Discord? How is he doing and how confident does he feel with himself? Are the people he had trouble with still around?

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

He was viciously harassed and mocked. If he gets a perma,, perma those who goaded him.

 

 

Us legal system has nuance to deal with those who acted at less than full mental capability. I hope YCM will have the decency to do that as well

Strong disagree.

I love the guy, and truly do enjoy his presence, but accountability is important in matters like this.

Banning him was not a poorly thought out reaction in any way. It was the correct response, and the response he intended for when he did it. Regardless of his mental state at the time, he posted NSFW content knowing he would be permabanned for it, with the express purpose of being permabanned. Even if it was an impulse decision, it shouldn't be disregarded. What stops him from making the same impulse decision again? It's not like he learned a lesson that posting porn is wrong, he knew it from the start.

His goal was to be banned forever, and that is how it should be.

He wasn't in his right mind. If you kill some me after suffering a psychotic break, there's a reason you don't get capital punishment.

 

Nuance, try it sometime

[evilfusion]

He was viciously harassed and mocked. If he gets a perma,, perma those who goaded him.

 

 

Us legal system has nuance to deal with those who acted at less than full mental capability. I hope YCM will have the decency to do that as well

 

He wasn't in his right mind. If you kill some me after suffering a psychotic break, there's a reason you don't get capital punishment.

 

Nuance, try it sometime

 

Please don't condescend to others in this topic. It doesn't help anything.

 

The point of this thread is to get differing opinions and gather a consensus, not shut down opposing viewpoints.

[(GigaDrillBreaker)]

Being banned from a forum isn't equivalent to capital punishment. He can live without YCM.

 

When people have sentences reduced due to committing acts out of sound mind, it comes with rehabilitation. Putting him back in the environment that caused him issues isn't rehabilitation.

 

And you could say "the sheet on discord won't happen again" but we all know that even at its best, YCM negatively affected the dude's mental health.

 

It wouldn't be fair to him, it wouldn't be fair to us, and it isn't some life changing thing that saves him or saves the forum.

 

Furthermore, since we can't effectively psychologically evaluate people who commit bannable offenses, using mental health as a defense/excuse is foolish. I'm not saying he faked having a mental break, or lied about it,

but I'm saying someone easily could.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Please don't condescend to others in this topic. It doesn't help anything.

 

The point of this thread is to get differing opinions and gather a consensus, not shut down opposing viewpoints.

That wasn't my intention. I'm sorry if it came off like that

[Fusion X. Denver]

Wait Broken, you're a mod now?

(congrats)

 

I'd vote to let Thar back. This was a very unique case and I'm more in the camp of not letting one mistake or flaw come to define you and serve as an obstacle going forward. 

I think permas being a case by case thing is best. Crab's original banning of J-Max, Rodrigo, and Kitty got overturned eventually and none of them caused trouble after that (I don't really think they deserved permas at the time either, but anyway). Winter seems to have chilled a bit after his time away and most people are cool with him after coming back. I can easily see Thar doing the same.

 

I think I'd be more likely to agree with ( )'s point if we were a bigger forum with hundreds of members where harder standards would be needed to keep order and where case by case scenarios are more time-consuming to deliberate.

But we all know each other here and we all knew and liked Thar, I say he deserves a second shot. If he posted porn again, which I doubt he would, then that'd be a perma perma.

 

I can't speak for his mental health, I didn't know him to that extent or the full circumstances surrounding his ban and what brought on the breaking point. That could be a legit case why to say no, but I'd hope this site wouldn't escalate to become that toxic of a presence, even over a full year after leaving it.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Being banned from a forum isn't equivalent to capital punishment. He can live without YCM.

 

When people have sentences reduced due to committing acts out of sound mind, it comes with rehabilitation. Putting him back in the environment that caused him issues isn't rehabilitation.

 

And you could say "the sheet on discord won't happen again" but we all know that even at its best, YCM negatively affected the dude's mental health.

 

It wouldn't be fair to him, it wouldn't be fair to us, and it isn't some life changing thing that saves him or saves the forum.

 

Furthermore, since we can't effectively psychologically evaluate people who commit bannable offenses, using mental health as a defense/excuse is foolish. I'm not saying he faked having a mental break, or lied about it,

but I'm saying someone easily could.

Banning: Incarceration

 

Perma Ban : Capital Punishment

 

---

 

Doesn't matter, you can get a lenient sentence even if Capital Punishment isn't on the table with an insanity plea.

 

Someone pestering you and harassing you, -> you getting angry and pushing them -> causing them to stumble backwards and break their neck won't automatically get you a 1st Degree Murder charge.

 

---

 

YCM didn't negatively impact him. 2 asspricks on discord did. Thar was here long before them, and didn't melt down. Some guy from YCM needling your personal life and finding a pressure pt =/= YCM is toxic to you

 

---

 

Justice should be about rehabilitation, not punishment, Thar has had a good long time to think about his mental struggles. He wants to turn over a new leaf and he should be able to. The concept of a Perma ban itself is stupid since is assumes a person can never change, or that the change doesn't matter. 

 

---

 

 

Nuance.

 

I'm firmly in favor of clemency for Thar

 

---

[(GigaDrillBreaker)]

YCM didn't negatively impact him, 2 asspricks on discord did. Thar was here long before them, and didn't melt down. Some guy from YCM needling your personal life and finding a pressure pt =/= YCM is toxic to you

Sorry to be blunt, but you have no idea what you are talking about.

 

Thar has always taken beatings from YCM. This was not an isolated incident. Various jokes, such as "shut up thar" and just the environment itself caused thar stress and depression for basically his entire membership. He was incredibly open about it, and left the site multiple times because of the toll it was taking on him. The last time was simply intended to be permanent, and he took drastic (though regrettable) actions to ensure such.

 

Pushing a narrative where everything was fine until some people bullied him on discord ignores years of the website and community bringing him to the point where he decided to get permabanned.

 

I personally have nothing against him, but I think he should stay banned, both for his own sake, and the sake of maintaining the integrity of what a permaban represents. I'm all for permabans being reversed if it was determined the initial ban was unjust. It's happened to countless members, present company included. But that is not the case here. Thar did something for which he knew the consequence was a permaban. He did not act without thinking of the results of his actions, he acted specifically to get those results.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

If "Shut Up Thar" is mental abused, there's a lot of abuse victims here

 

---

 

It's very debatable if Thar had the mental capability at the time to make a fully informed decision. Psychological torture is a thing, and asshats bringing up traumatic occurrences to aggravate you can destabilize your pre-frontal cortex

 

---

 

Last time this happened, when Kate goaded Getter into posting porn, the mods said they would update how they treated these provoked occurrences. Why did that not happen for Thar? He was denied his due process 

[(GigaDrillBreaker)]

Getter shouldn't have been able to come back either. The fact that he was allowed to, however briefly, purely on the grounds of making so many alt accounts the team decided to let him through, was a disgrace on the team's part.

 

And you realize that he literally had multiple meltdowns over "shut up thar" right? People might act like that toward everyone, but his response shows that him and this community were not healthily compatible.

[BANZAI!!!!]

Getter shouldn't have been able to come back either. The fact that he was allowed to, however briefly, purely on the grounds of making so many alt accounts the team decided to let him through, was a disgrace on the team's part.

And you realize that he literally had multiple meltdowns over "shut up thar" right? People might act like that toward everyone, but his response shows that him and this community were not healthily compatible.

All valid points, and though I agree with them, i’m still in favor of letting Thar back in.

 

He’s changed his mind and wants back, and frankly, regardless of the method by which he removed himself from the site (or rather got himself removed), I think he should be allowed the right to rejoin the community. If things go poorly for him again, there’s nothing stopping him from leaving, and having a user who contributed positively to the community back among us can only be a good thing, I think.

 

Precidents be damned, too. Every situation is different and should be looked at as such.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

All valid points, and though I agree with them, i’m still in favor of letting Thar back in.

 

He’s changed his mind and wants back, and frankly, regardless of the method by which he removed himself from the site (or rather got himself removed), I think he should be allowed the right to rejoin the community. If things go poorly for him again, there’s nothing stopping him from leaving, and having a user who contributed positively to the community back among us can only be a good thing, I think.

 

Precidents be damned, too. Every situation is different and should be looked at as such.

I'm agreeing with Zai....there's bipartisanship on this issue

[Sunshine Jesse]

If "Shut Up Thar" is mental abused, there's a lot of abuse victims here

shut up winter

(jk)

 

I feel like being super strict about permabans being permanent is a excessive. It's inherently implied in name and emphasizing it just comes off as posturing about one's authority where it's not needed. I also feel like posting porn is too "easy" of a way to get permabanned. It's something that should require a lot more nuance and shouldn't be something someone can basically ask for, outside of doing things that would actually get people arrested.

 

Speaking from that perspective and with no other context other than what was posted in this thread, I think he should be unbanned.

[mitchermitcher]

i don't think he would be detrimental to the community if he comes back so i'm in favor of him coming back.

[AGATHODAIMON BANGTAIL COW]

This has oddly entered my mind lately, and, well, the perma punishment for posting porn is primarily designed with the pornbots in mind. Given that, and that permabans on YCM aren't exactly permanent in several other cases, I'm totally fine with Thar coming back if he wants to after all this time. I don't really see YCM fueling mental issues in its current state outside of the Debates section or the quarterly "the mods have breathed; how dare they" session. Worst thing that happens is that he gets too much pressure to resume his YCM fic; I have no idea if he wants to do that or not.

 

Would've been more thought-out but people on Discord pick the absolute best times to message me relentlessly. They also do so the rest of the time but eh.

[Simping For Hina]

We let that other guy back who posted porn, whatever his name was.

[Sleepy]

We let that other guy back who posted porn, whatever his name was.

 

Didn't J-Max do something like that at some point? He also iirc used to be a mod.

If you meant him, yes I've seen him around.

[Simping For Hina]

Well, J-Max and Rod are under different circumstances, but them too.

 

Also YCM is not a government, stop acting like it is. It has an established premise to operate on where there is a hierarchy, but there is no actions that lead to anything other than decision of mods. We don't operate on one focus, on on sort of manner. YCM is under no obligation to follow such an idea either.

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

Thar's great but I just worry this will spark a "Well HE got unbanned, X and X should be unbanned too." I don't know for sure yet if he should stay banned but there has to be some clear line to keep people from getting angry about basically every ban at the very least.

 

I thought there was some time limit talked about in the past but I could be wrong.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Thar's great but I just worry this will spark a "Well HE got unbanned, X and X should be unbanned too." I don't know for sure yet if he should stay banned but there has to be some clear line to keep people from getting angry about basically every ban at the very least.

 

I thought there was some time limit talked about in the past but I could be wrong.

I mean we should unban crab helmet ....

 

Only recent Permas of note I can recall are

 

Me

Thar

Getter

Banterbus

Klav

Shard

 

Klav doesn't want back

Shard didn't care about being banned

This forum deserves Banterbus

 

And the rest are either back or debating being back

[Sleepy]

I'm a bit more concerned on his potential to fall back. More for his own sake than anything else.
I wouldn't say no without giving it a shot if it came down to it, but. Is this also a concern for everybody else?
I mean as in, how much of a priority is that in this discussion, or do others have more trust that he'll absolutely be well?

 

 

EDIT:
Also, Winter, Crab is technically not banned from what I've seen. He just is gone.

Mr Robert is gone off to his own projects outside of Yugioh's realm.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

I'm a bit more concerned on his potential to fall back. More for his own sake than anything else.

I wouldn't say no without giving it a shot if it came down to it, but. Is this also a concern for everybody else?

 

Ppl on YCM need to take care of each other better. We know Thar has certain issues, and we should look out for him

 

Not what happened before sadly