TCG Moderator Decision

[Flame Dragon]

I unhid Pika's post. Its already been quoted in several other posts so hiding it accomplishes nothing. And while her comment might have been heavy handed, I don't think it was that excessive. If you think she had a bad tone fine, but Dad, your tone was just also bad and as a moderator you shouldn't let it get to that point.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

This is from a veteran on this site who has been here for ages:

 

 

Today at 11:22 AM

 

 

In any case I have no intention of returning to a place where people think they are hot sheet and have no interest in changing and/or improving. I have little time in my days as is, the last thing I need is to baby sit a bunch of people who believe they are holier than one another. I offered a sheet load of my time and energy to looking into and resolving issues the site had and all but one of the Mod team made no effort to contact me and/or speak to me, I'd be lying if I said I didn't care for the place, but I'm tired of leaving and coming back to it ending up the same.

 

 

I know which mod is the exception (and you can likely guess too)

 

The problem is this isn't one user being annoyed, it's a reoccurring tale of the mod team asking for change or a user posting concern. The flame dies and nothing happen. The mods need to ask, do they value their modship or YCM having a future?

 

Striker's secret project will help, but the establishment is rotting and nothing is getting done. People need to step aside for fresh blood and new reforms or this will not get better. The dysfunction will ruin YCM

 

---

 

Everyone but like 1-2 current mods should resign, and fresh members who are focused on reform should be chosen

[evilfusion]

Um...I can't help but feel you just catapulted into a different subject entirely.

[VCR_CAT]

This is from a veteran on this site who has been here for ages:

 

 

Today at 11:22 AM

 

 

In any case I have no intention of returning to a place where people think they are hot sheet and have no interest in changing and/or improving. I have little time in my days as is, the last thing I need is to baby sit a bunch of people who believe they are holier than one another. I offered a sheet load of my time and energy to looking into and resolving issues the site had and all but one of the Mod team made no effort to contact me and/or speak to me, I'd be lying if I said I didn't care for the place, but I'm tired of leaving and coming back to it ending up the same.

 

 

I remember this post, and I do remember pretty clearly it's not talking about the mod team specifically and that this happened some, some time ago and isn't really applicable for the current climate.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

I remember this post, and I do remember pretty clearly it's not talking about the mod team specifically and that this happened some, some time ago and isn't really applicable for the current climate.

It was from today, about the mod team, I'll blot out the names

 

I remember this post, and I do remember pretty clearly it's not talking about the mod team specifically and that this happened some, some time ago and isn't really applicable for the current climate.

It happened around the time I was banned when Aix made his resignation post and called for others to step down (spoiler it didn't happen)

Um...I can't help but feel you just catapulted into a different subject entirely.

I did...this has basically become the mod team reform thread, and since Giga and others are conducting most of the negs in pms and Striker is doing the card maker thing, I felt this was another issue that merited discussion 

[VCR_CAT]

It was from today, about the mod team, I'll blot out the names

 

 

It happened around the time I was banned when Aix made his resignation post and called for others to step down (spoiler it didn't happen)

I did...this has basically become the mod team reform thread, and since Giga and others are conducting most of the negs in pms and Striker is doing the card maker thing, I felt this was another issue that merited discussion 

 

My mistake; the wording must be really, really similar to a post made earlier this year.

 

Granted, again, I'm not entirely sure how applicable it is anyways. Is the point of posting supposed to be a character assassination of the mod team, or is it calling out other members for being too ready to bring others down? And, either/or, how is it really supposed to contribute to the discussion beyond essentially calling people children?

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

My mistake; the wording must be really, really similar to a post made earlier this year.

 

Granted, again, I'm not entirely sure how applicable it is anyways. Is the point of posting supposed to be a character assassination of the mod team, or is it calling out other members for being too ready to bring others down? And, either/or, how is it really supposed to contribute to the discussion beyond essentially calling people children?

I'll give some context.

 

Right around our Aix moment, we were working on a number of reforms? That's around the wave that got Birdie elected. A lot of them fizzled out, and a common excuse that was given was that the mod team had lives beyond YCM. 

 

That's perfectly valid, I'm honestly shocked someone like Evil was willing to stick around as headmin for nearly a decade. But that's not an excuse to sit and let your position rot. When is the last time Smear has been on? What tangible changes has Night made recently. If their real life is stressful and they cannot be active here, they need to step aside for fresh blood that is willing to dedicate more time to reforming this palce

 

It's not a character assassination. I know which mod was the exception, this Pm was not form him/her. But that mod has been working overtime to be outgoing and trying to find ways to incorporate userbase ideas. We need more like them

 

The pt of this post is to note that dysfunction is heavy in the mod team, and it might not be a bad idea to consider a reset of sorts

 

I didn't see eye to eye with Aix all the time, but there's some real wisdom in this post we should consider

 

https://forum.yugiohcardmaker.net/topic/360841-plans-for-the-future/?do=findComment&comment=6975988

 

And there's a person willing to put his name to the proposals if that's what you want VCR

 

---

 

Black had explicit reforms laid out for TCG and CC

 

Dad had explicit reforms for Debates/Generals

 

Tormney had explicit reforms for Graphics and sitewide

 

That's what we need, not nebulous magical chairs with mod positions to protect an establishment that hasn't been up to par

[Sleepy]

Normally, I would not buy into a screenshot with the date "today" because it could have been "today" at the time of being taken and stored.

However, I do believe in this one. Even if it wasn't recent, I've seen similar thoughts from others myself.

 

I don't like involving myself a whole lot with YCM politics, not because I'm not interested, but because both sides have valid concerns, but both sides somewhat shut down the other's claims, and the result is common members sounding like they are rioting and claiming for too high a bar of ideals for mods to be able to perform, and mods saying they tried even though things are undergoing a similar pattern as the previous time they made a similar thread. Apologizing for the same lack of transparency mistakes and rushed procedures, which it seems they were aware of. Both sides get heated arguments, nothing comes to nothing, or the result is "well we already decided on X so cope with it, it's just a trial". Or if something does become of all this process, I can't really tell, as negotiations seem to be happening via private messages. It is a bit hard to find where I can learn more about this to comment. I have to take everybody's word. IDK how many people are as clueless as me on this.

 

I'll try to look into what the policies suggested are. Where can I read those? Is there a place where that's outlined or do you mean the discussion in this thread? because that's a little more messy of a display.

 

I could very well insert Pika and Dad in that screenshot based on what happened in this thread, but I am not all that convinced Pika's issues on the greater scope of things would go towards Dad of all people specifically. A single event like this is probably not enough, but I could be wrong. Don't answer me on this one, I don't intend to ask for who they are. That could only raise more problems.

[Dad]

I was out of line, let's be real about it. I got the deets now so I'mma dip out this thread and let it be. But let's not turn this intoa witch hunt.

 

If we're talking full moderator reform, feel free to start a separate thread or bump the old one. Keep this thread for TCG mod discussion.

[Phantom Roxas]

Got some personal things nagging at me, but I'll try to put those aside.

 

To be honest, I am quite happy with Broken as the TCG mod. While it's a section I only very rarely visit, Broken has a rational and calm perspective, so I completely trust him to do a fine job, and he is good at listening to things. I wouldn't be concerned about his temperament one bit.

 

As far as transparency is concerned, I think there's one other factor, although I may have missed it. While I agree with the idea that members should be allowed to voice their opinions on potential candidates, any number of people saying "I oppose this member's promotion" should be carefully considered, and not necessarily hurt that candidate's chances. I know that may sound like suggesting to dismiss concerns, but generally I think it's best to distinguish whether an argument is made in bad faith, or if the argument genuinely does offer a valid reason for why the candidate should not be promoted.

 

Ultimately, I think all of the current mods are right to make the final decisions by themselves. While they should consider the community's opinion, if someone gets promoted despite your opposition to that candidate, or preference for someone else, it's on the members to be prepared to accept that.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Why? All the mods the members chose have actually done their job right. Mod anointed mods are playing musical chairs to keep their jobs

 

We have a mod who came in as PR mod, was replaced as PR mod by Yui basically, and now PR mod has been scrapped

 

The mods have a terrible track record, they show dysfunction within the team and have apparently ignored reform ideas

 

I'd love to hear why their judgement is to be taken as gospel now

[Phantom Roxas]

I don't think "mod-anointed mods" are meant for musical chairs. I know that me endorsing Zai supposedly undermined the election (Spoilers: It actually didn't), but it's not like I played musical chairs and handed Zai a seat, then he handed Yui the seat, and the music has stopped playing, so the PR mod chair has been taken out of the game. I feel like that's trying to create a narrative connecting the various promotions, rather than examining each promotion on their individual circumstances.

 

I'm not saying that the mods' judgment should be taken as gospel. Just that I think I can trust them.

 

(That, and I worry that if I was the one trashing their judgment, it would seem like I'm being vindictive for being kicked off the mod team, and I really don't want to harbor any resentment towards the current team.)

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

I don't think "mod-anointed mods" are meant for musical chairs. I know that me endorsing Zai supposedly undermined the election (Spoilers: It actually didn't), but it's not like I played musical chairs and handed Zai a seat, then he handed Yui the seat, and the music has stopped playing, so the PR mod chair has been taken out of the game. I feel like that's trying to create a narrative connecting the various promotions, rather than examining each promotion on their individual circumstances.

 

I'm not saying that the mods' judgment should be taken as gospel. Just that I think I can trust them.

 

(That, and I worry that if I was the one trashing their judgment, it would seem like I'm being vindictive for being kicked off the mod team, and I really don't want to harbor any resentment towards the current team.)

That's not how I looked at it tbh

 

It was more

 

Elections Shenanigans -> Zai made a mod

 

Zai isn't very active in trial period -> Still promoted

 

Night promises that he will personally demote Zai if he's not active as PR mod -> Night goes inactive, Yui and Dad basically become the PR mod

 

PR mod is dissolved as we no long need a farce position 

 

---

 

Maybe Zai found a nice job he can do as RP mod, but I said way back in the Zai controversy that the mods should have just had a similar election for RP instead of trying to shove Zai in a job he's clearly not made for

 

Fool me once, fool me twice, fool me thrice...shame on me

 

---

 

I don't actually have problems with Zai or anyone else. Let's put it to test. If we hold recall elections on the mods. I'm very confident that both Dad and Yui would be handily reelected, can you say the same with Zai as PR mod? His original job? If the answer is no, then there is something seriously wrong as the user based cannot hold the mod team responsible. You work for US, not the other way around.

 

Same thing goes with Broke. N...have no problem with him personally. Mods like him, hold an election and see how TCG regulars like him. If you guys are so confident he's a good fit, why are you so afraid to see if the users agree?

 

The short answer is a mirror to politics as a whole today

 

Washington DC (the mod team) has no idea what *insert small town* needs or wants, and candidates they shoe horn in are bad fits 

[(GigaDrillBreaker)]

Night promises that he will personally demote Zai if he's not active as PR mod

Do you have a link to the post where this is?

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Do you have a link to the post where this is?

Yeah looking for it at the moment. Pretty sure it was the thread it got me banned, but it might have been Aix's thread, gimmi a few

 

Edit:

 

https://forum.yugiohcardmaker.net/topic/362252-the-submission-box-moderator-transparency-discussion-thread/page-2?do=findComment&comment=6993307

 

 

Let's be honest at least now, you're not getting demodded. You were selected by the mod team. They has "high hopes for you" - ie, you're not going anywhere.

 

Let's dispel with that notion. They've kept less controversial and inactive mods than you on.

 

Now that's done, if you think your method works, then do something I guess. I haven't seen your new method yet.

 

The problem WAS how you were selected, the problem now IS what you've done (or rather not done) for your trial period. Your explanation defending Evil for promoting you doesn't answer the criticism. At least not regarding my point.

 

I'm curious why you were promoted to mod after not doing anything in your trial period. Giga's problems (if they remain) are separate. The problem in the future WILL be if you continue as you have in the last month.

 

Yes you were busy, so was Birdie. She stepped down. You did not. She did stuff actively while she was around. I'm still waiting to see what people claim you did during the same period.

 

Dismissing everything negative about as a witch hunt will only make that more likely to pass. Them blinders helps no-one

 

You were given a chance in your trial period, and you're being given a second chance now it seems. Please don't squander it. I'm asking more than ordering; even if you do squander it, nothing is gonna happen to you or your position. YCM just won't improve. 

 

 

If he doesn't do sheet and/or doesn't do it well I'll personally demote him. 

Now you can stop worrying that nothing will happen because I'm far too prideful to go back on my word. 

 

---

 

If Zai is a good fit for RP, which he very well might be, keep him. Have RP peeps decide his fate, but (1) it's not ok to discard PR mod (as nearly everyone agrees)

 

so 

 

(1) let's redo PR mod properly

(2) let's not funk up TCG mod the same way we did PR mod in March

[Phantom Roxas]

I've read your PM, and I'll ask Black about it privately. But I'm skeptical. When Roxas was going after users using his mod powers, Black stood up for us to the point where he was demoted

 

He stuck up for me when Nai banned me the first time for not taking Klav's sheet

 

And he stuck up for me the second time when the mods didn't follow their newly created ban schedule in an extra-judicial attempt to perma me again

 

Black is a lot of things, but a slandering individual who seeks to go around the rules, he is not —to my knowledge 

 

Okay, no.

 

I'm not going to accept a narrative where I was somehow this great tyrant, and Black was the martyr who risked everything by standing up for you in the face of my evil.

 

Black obstructed the moderation team on a regular basis. Nothing could be done unless it had his personal approval. He wasn't standing up for you. He was angry because when you were banned, it wasn't done on his terms.

 

He is absolutely a slandering individual, given that his immediate response to Broken's promotion was to label him "Shitstirrer McGee the Primadonna." For all the warnings that I should not have sunk to your level, Black had no qualms about sinking to that same level, and then justifying himself as "holding a mirror" to me. In other words, don't act this certain way, oh, except Black is totally allowed to act that way, because it's okay when he does it.

 

Black doesn't stand for you or anyone else except himself.

[Dad]

I'm going to ask once, and only once, that this topic about Black, Roxas, and how it affected Winter's ban be dropped immediately.  Take it to PM.  Thank you.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

That's fine, and since he's not here, I'm not gonna condone this narrative of Black being all self-serving. Let's look through your claims:

 

(1) Black had qualms about my ban. He openly told me that he thought I could be toxic. What he took issue with was this post from Evil:

 

https://forum.yugiohcardmaker.net/topic/363489-winters-ban/?p=7003814

 

"This is actually a very valid point.

 

My answer is "I legitimately have no reason to believe that he will improve his attitude and behavior even after returning from a temporary ban".

 

Because he's shown no sign of improving in the past, I don't see the value of doing this dance with him any further"

 

The Mod team bent over backwards to find any and all loopholes and then ignored the very rules they agreed to literally a week earlier. It's not "Black's Terms," but rather the terms the mod team staked their word and dignity on. Black, if anything, was looking out to make sure you guys didn't drag your name further in the dirt by being extra-judicial.

 

(2) It wasn't just me. Not even close. Black also made sure that when Enguin and other's got the short stick that they were treated fairly. Enguin got slapped with 6WP for a joke and Black was instrumental in removing it.

 

(3) I cannot attest to this personally, but Broke. N isn't on Black. Broke apparently abused Speedroid during the Halloween event. While I have heard this tale second hand, there are enough witnesses to lend it credibility. Not sure if it should sink Broke, but it's not slander

 

---

 

Thank you for making the case for Black to get modship. He's not partial (Given he was ok with be being banned- it's not about sticking up for his friends), but rather he wants to follow the rules the mod team agreed to and not sheet out ruling based on emotion and convenience. You've made a great case for Josh. Not only is he fair to people who he has issues with, he's willing to disagree with the modteam instead of being another rubber stamp. 

[Blake]

Okay, no.

 

I'm not going to accept a narrative where I was somehow this great tyrant, and Black was the martyr who risked everything by standing up for you in the face of my evil.

 

Black obstructed the moderation team on a regular basis. Nothing could be done unless it had his personal approval. He wasn't standing up for you. He was angry because when you were banned, it wasn't done on his terms.

 

He is absolutely a slandering individual, given that his immediate response to Broken's promotion was to label him "Shitstirrer McGee the Primadonna." For all the warnings that I should not have sunk to your level, Black had no qualms about sinking to that same level, and then justifying himself as "holding a mirror" to me. In other words, don't act this certain way, oh, except Black is totally allowed to act that way, because it's okay when he does it.

 

Black doesn't stand for you or anyone else except himself.

I'm not saying Winter's narrative is correct, by any means, but you don't seem to understand the implications of slander.

 

First off, the comment about Broken was not said in any official capacity. It was said in frustration to a friend, over Skype no less. That isn't slander. I wasn't making a bid for someone's opinion to change, I was venting. Because I did and do feel Broken was legitimately a poor choice, which I offered in actual case form in PM, with no personal experience with him involved. I even stopped with that, because it wasn't going to help anything improve. I completely meant what I said about he shouldn't have to deal with opposition at the start.

 

As for how I tried to handle you, I tried something out, and it was a mistake. Failed method. It wasn't okay of me to do that.

 

Moving on from that, "obstructing" the team... You mean trying to get us to think through moves instead of making hasty and emotional decisions? Not letting Winter be banned for mocking Trump, just because it involved the phrase pussy grabbing? Not letting him be banned for disagreeing with the idea of transgender? I even wanted to ban Winter for some of the stuff, but that doesn't mean you do it without due process. It was always personally fueled when people tried to ban him, including my earlier want(s) to. Evilfusion's the one that stopped that, and after a bit, I realized that we should definitely do things the right way or not at all.

 

I also want to point out that I wasn't even making a case for him to be unbanned when he was banned. Others in the thread did, but I never did. I objected to how it was handled and how it went against the grain that had just been established. No matter what you say, I did not try to get him unbanned.

 

The team needs someone who's willing to slow it down. It had nothing to do with my personal approval, but things like the NSFW Rules or the hurried attempts to ban Winter needed to be held back. The team doesn't need a devil's advocate, but they need someone to keep them from just flipping a switch and making moves, which the team has been wont to do, at times. Being gungho with everyone is just as much of a problem as having everyone disagree, albeit for different reasons.

 

I made hasty decisions as well. Like banning Enguin from discord. I'm not perfect, and I don't claim to be. Having someone willing to stop that is a good thing, it's not "obstructing the team".

 

I don't have any personal gain in this. I'm not making a case for me being a mod again, actively dissociating myself from Giga and Winter here. I'm not going to communicate with Winter more than sparingly, because, if I'm honest, he can be kinda annoying, and I don't have much to say to him. I want to see the team improve, and the site with it. You can say I'm self-serving all you want, but you have never presented a case for it. Not when we got demoted, not before, and not now. That is slander.

 

Sorry, mods. Got tired of sitting back and having to take it. Warn me if you need to.

[The Warden]

I actually found the name to be fifthing hilarious to be honest.

[BANZAI!!!!]

I actually found the name to be fifthing hilarious to be honest.

This is spam, is it not? C’mon Broken.

 

Spoilers: I just woke up and if this has been handled already, don’t mind me, just kicking a dead horse. Anyway, gonna ask that everyone in here stay on topic, and more importantly stay civil. I don’t wanna have to lock this sheet or deal with the admin cp to give out warns. Capice?

 

You may now return to your regularly scheduled tuesday.

[The Warden]

It is not; I was merely stating that I found the name Black called me that Roxas cited hilarious rather than hurtful, in order to imply there were no hard feelings about said name.

[Phantom Roxas]

It is not; I was merely stating that I found the name Black called me that Roxas cited hilarious rather than hurtful, in order to imply there were no hard feelings about said name.

Ah, that's all well and good. I will say that I apologize if citing that was underhanded on my part.