TCG Moderator Decision

[(GigaDrillBreaker)]

Okay, yui. I stopped reading like two paragraphs in.

 

Using PR as an example on why you shouldn't make decisions based on member opinion is funking bullshit.

 

Birdie didn't leave two days later, I don't have time for revisionist history.

 

Zai WASN'T EVEN funking FAVORED by the member base. Yes, he received support after, but not until he was given the position.

 

What point are you making?

 

Maybe, if you haven't slept, and it's affecting your mood, you shouldn't try to make big things like this.

 

I'll read the rest after work in the morning, but this is a rough start.

 

EDIT: an hour and a half? Okay guy. I'm proud of your dedication.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

How is VCR any less condescending than Broke? He's more if not =

 

Still waiting on a reason why Darj was dropped. And sleepy is plenty active so unless she doesn't want the job that's not an excuse

 

---

 

My point on Zai is people who don't go to RP shouldn't armchair judge Zai for his job as RP mod. What I can say is he's not done a great job as PR mod.

 

---

 

Birdie lasted for more than a month and promptly resigned when life got busy. More people should follow her example

 

---

On Modships:

 

(1) There's talented members like Hina Giga and Polaris that insta get ax'd cause someone on the mod team dislikes them. This is wrong and won't heal divides

 

(2) PR mod wasn't a fair election, Dad in Debates was. PR mod was super delegates basically. We chose Birdie and Giga. We were blind sided with mod elimination in a smokey back room. You can't funk up the process and then conclude the process doesn't work

[Yui]

Maybe, if you haven't slept, and it's affecting your mood, you shouldn't try to make big things like this.

The present issues are kind of something that need to be addressed, and if I wait until lack of sleep isn't affecting me then it's going to be too late by the time I start sitting down to address it all as best I can. It's not the post I should have made or particularly wanted to make, but it's the one I had to make regardless. Weighing in on these matters as they happen, even if I'm not in peak condition, is part of my job as any sort of moderator.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Smears last post was in AUGUST. Life gets in the way, and if so, do a Birdie and step down. There really needs to be a mod team reset like Aix suggested.

 

---

 

Everything is secondary to finding out how Evil accessed the card maker coding and getting devs to sandbox with it elsewhere to fix glitches

 

---

 

Basically Broke will do fine, even if the mods suck for screwing us once again

[evilfusion]

On Modships:

 

(1) There's talented members like Hina Giga and Polaris that insta get ax'd cause someone on the mod team dislikes them. This is wrong and won't heal divides

 

(2) PR mod wasn't a fair election, Dad in Debates was. PR mod was super delegates basically. We chose Birdie and Giga. We were blind sided with mod elimination in a smokey back room. You can't funk up the process and then conclude the process doesn't work

 

Um...no. Certain members get insta-axed because the mod team considers how the individual might work alongside the others mods, as a team. How much they jump on creating or stirring up drama is often factored in, as is overall attitude towards the mod team. Why would the mod team ever want to bring in someone who actively opposes and derides them? There's bringing in a devil's advocate, and then there's bringing in a potential saboteur.

 

And yeah, the PR mod thing is the issue I forgot in my first post. I refute that example immediately.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Um...no. Certain members get insta-axed because the mod team considers how the individual might work alongside the others mods, as a team. How much they jump on creating or stirring up drama is often factored in, as is overall attitude towards the mod team. Why would the mod team ever want to bring in someone who actively opposes and derides them? There's bringing in a devil's advocate, and then there's bringing in a potential saboteur.

 

And yeah, the PR mod thing is the issue I forgot in my first post. I refute that example immediately.

Becuase we've done it your way and it's not like the Mod team is in harmony? Black was apparently sacked? Yui didn't know about the PR mod removal.

 

Your way: mod team and PR is in disharmony

Our way: maybe mod team doesn't have harmony. You've never tried it and I'm not seeing a downside

[Sleepy]

To be honest, I'm a bit more active in Custom Cards these days, but I do alternate on a seasonal basis. More importantly: I don't feel confident on a role of leadership, and I've always believed I thrive more as support. I am also a casual player. I've almost not liked any top tier decks of any format since the Xyz era began up until now (that's about 6 years). On the other hand, I do like lots of individual cards printed throughout this time, and I love all mechanics and their potential and implications.

 

- - - - - - - -

 

I've been following this thread closely, but frankly speaking not sure what to say. I don't feel strongly for or against BrokeN, and can't say I have been looking closely enough at YCM affairs to first hand know of the arguments on display for the most part, but I'll use this to speak of general stuff I guess:

- - - - - - - -

The 1 week deal for mods in probation I don't think truly works. No new mod is likely to turn out badly enough to be demoted after the trial. People will mostly just say "well, the member's been there a week, we've cooled down from the discussion, and the site's not in flames yet because we can't change the YCM logo to be surrounded by flames". Some others just say "the mods aren't gonna give us a say so whatever". It feels like it might just be there to appease.

Maybe the trial period should not be a mandatory thing. Maybe what should get that precious time is a thread like this (well, not exactly alike, but of this nature?), sitting for a week, before the actual happening, and get the week trial as an agreement if requested by the members disputing it. It'd be a bit more solid for eyes to be watching over said trial after this, instead of eyes maybe watching over the trial because of being in full disagreement with the staff.

 

I'm not saying this as in "this is so atrocious" but I'm mostly trying to ponder with myself about what the best procedure should be to create the least amount of conflict.

What about something along these lines?
Make a thread at your mod forum, and pin it or something. Let it rest there for a week or so, enough for mods to actually see it. In fact, PM the other mods about it so they get the memo.

Afterwards, make a public thread. Have people involved, say their thoughts, express their worries, whatever that comes to mind and try to not dismiss opposing viewpoints. Let them vote. You can even specifically state it as a weightless vote if you want, but BE CLEAR about the idea when you start it. It is important information to help you gauge the levels of acceptance. Ponder on the data and weight it against the previous week's case.

 

This isn't some regular report, it is a new member for your staff. It is well worth planning for properly informing of it. It is more than worth waiting for. Yes you will always have people that will disagree with your choices, but you wanna at least try to work to decrease those numbers. People are not really that displeased with the choice, but with the method, from what I understand.

Me saying "the vote can amount to nothing" might not be idea, but would be progress.

 

I really respect this mod team, but can't help but think of THIS video when I read the thread. Day one and the team is ALREADY saying sorry. I understand that things happen backstage and this can happen with legit reasons behind, but it can easy look like the team is preemptively aware this wasn't going to bode well, and exactly in what ways. 

Delays are fine. We lived more than a week without Evilfusion's replacement, you know? Next time I think you should let the procedure extent however much it needs to, so that things can be properly taken care of.

 

PR should stay IMO. It is never a bad thing to have somebody that wants to bridge us information. I'm not sure how long has the current one been busy, but still somebody needs to do it. It is really not ideal that such a busy timing for the current mod, encapsulated such a big event as appointing a mod.

 

- - - - - - -

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Trial period as it stands is a joke. Zai wasn't very active in his trial period (though he got more active later) and was still promoted. It really is just lip service

 

Don't think a Jr mod has EVER failed the nebulous standard needed to pass the trial period

[evilfusion]

Becuase we've done it your way and it's not like the Mod team is in harmony? Black was apparently sacked? Yui didn't know about the PR mod removal.

 

Your way: mod team and PR is in disharmony

Our way: maybe mod team doesn't have harmony. You've never tried it and I'm not seeing a downside

 

Yes, technically. It was a downplayed dismissal that coincided with him planning to resign anyway (he had already publicly announced it), as a result of frequent and very heated public arguments with Roxas. Roxas was dismissed at the same time, due to repeated incidents involving his temperament and treatment of certain members, despite many warnings.

 

I don't think site moderators in the vast majority of sites get voted in exclusively by the member base, without moderators getting a veto discussion. The problem with voting, is that popularity contests shouldn't determine who has LEGITIMATE site power and authority, unless they are popular because they are genuinely good fits. The problem is, many of the members who have vocal popularity are popular for the wrong reasons. NOT ALL, mind you. Birdie was phenomenal, a shame it was cut short. 

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Was she? Popularity wise we chose (in recent years)

 

Black & Koko, both of who worked out pretty well

 

Dad

 

Birdie

 

YCM has a good track record for selecting its own mods. There's no harm in trying Evil

[Dad]

To be honest, I'm a bit more active in Custom Cards these days, but I do alternate on a seasonal basis. More importantly: I don't feel confident on a role of leadership, and I've always believed I thrive more as support. I am also a casual player. I've almost not liked any top tier decks of any format since the Xyz era began up until now (that's about 6 years). On the other hand, I do like lots of individual cards printed throughout this time, and I love all mechanics and their potential and implications.

 

- - - - - - - -

 

I've been following this thread closely, but frankly speaking not sure what to say. I don't feel strongly for or against BrokeN, and can't say I have been looking closely enough at YCM affairs to first hand know of the arguments on display for the most part, but I'll use this to speak of general stuff I guess:

 

- - - - - - - -

 

The 1 week deal for mods in probation I don't think truly works. No new mod is likely to turn out badly enough to be demoted after the trial. People will mostly just say "well, the member's been there a week, we've cooled down from the discussion, and the site's not in flames yet because we can't change the YCM logo to be surrounded by flames". Some others just say "the mods aren't gonna give us a say so whatever". It feels like it might just be there to appease.

Maybe the trial period should not be a mandatory thing. Maybe what should get that precious time is a thread like this (well, not exactly alike, but of this nature?), sitting for a week, before the actual happening, and get the week trial as an agreement if requested by the members disputing it. It'd be a bit more solid for eyes to be watching over said trial after this, instead of eyes maybe watching over the trial because of being in full disagreement with the staff.

 

I'm not saying this as in "this is so atrocious" but I'm mostly trying to ponder with myself about what the best procedure should be to create the least amount of conflict.

What about something along these lines?

Make a thread at your mod forum, and pin it or something. Let it rest there for a week or so, enough for mods to actually see it. In fact, PM the other mods about it so they get the memo.

Afterwards, make a public thread. Have people involved, say their thoughts, express their worries, whatever that comes to mind and try to not dismiss opposing viewpoints. Let them vote. You can even specifically state it as a weightless vote if you want, but BE CLEAR about the idea when you start it. It is important information to help you gauge the levels of acceptance. Ponder on the data and weight it against the previous week's case.

 

This isn't some regular report, it is a new member for your staff. It is well worth planning for properly informing of it. It is more than worth waiting for. Yes you will always have people that will disagree with your choices, but you wanna at least try to work to decrease those numbers. People are not really that displeased with the choice, but with the method, from what I understand.

 

Me saying "the vote can amount to nothing" might not be idea, but would be progress.

 

I really respect this mod team, but can't help but think of THIS video when I read the thread. Day one and the team is ALREADY saying sorry. I understand that things happen backstage and this can happen with legit reasons behind, but it can easy look like the team is preemptively aware this wasn't going to bode well, and exactly in what ways. 

Delays are fine. We lived more than a week without Evilfusion's replacement, you know? Next time I think you should let the procedure extent however much it needs to, so that things can be properly taken care of.

 

PR should stay IMO. It is never a bad thing to have somebody that wants to bridge us information. I'm not sure how long has the current one been busy, but still somebody needs to do it. It is really not ideal that such a busy timing for the current mod, encapsulated such a big event as appointing a mod.

 

- - - - - - -

 

Since it was mentioned I'm gonna bring it up.  Nother sheet storm coming.

 

Darj was moved back cuz:

 

a.)  Broken seemed like a better fit.

b.) We thought of Darj for CC.

 

So this seems like a big funking slice of irony.  

 

But let's be real, it's not like you would be bad in either spot (CC/TCG).  The issue then comes into question:  

 

a.)  Does TCG need two mods?

b.)  Does Sleepy's name suddenly push Darj out when he was the first one considered?

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

I still don't think that "in the same section/knows each other" is a good reason against. There will always be something someone complains about so it's best to choose the easiest one to point out as ridiculous. It potentially takes away good choices just by association which I think is worse than some people calling conspiracy just by association. It kind of says that you need to not be friends with certain people or else you're suspicious.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Since it was mentioned I'm gonna bring it up. Nother sheet storm coming.

 

Darj was moved back cuz:

 

a.) Broken seemed like a better fit.

b.) We thought of Darj for CC.

 

So this seems like a big funking slice of irony.

 

But let's be real, it's not like you would be bad in either spot (CC/TCG). The issue then comes into question:

 

a.) Does TCG need two mods?

b.) Does Sleepy's name suddenly push Darj out when he was the first one considered?

So replacement for Treb? There are a lot of active CC new bloods? Again wish you guys would ask around. Dova for example might be a neat CC mod?

 

---

 

TCG has usually had 2 mods? Given debates is dead and the card maker is out of commission. It should be our main activity hub?

[evilfusion]

Was she? Popularity wise we chose (in recent years)

 

Black & Koko, both of who worked out pretty well

 

Dad

 

Birdie

 

YCM has a good track record for selecting its own mods. There's no harm in trying Evil

 

Touche.

 

But I don't actually have much say in whether the notion is considered any more. XD

 

And I'd still expect some members to be insta-removed from consideration, regardless of member say. Not because just one mod dislikes them, but because almost ALL of them do. I'm sure (no offense) that if there was a vote and an overwhelming majority said to make you a mod (again, no offense), the team would be "Uh...no, hell no."

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

So replacement for Treb?

 

At this time, I do not intend to push for a replacement for him (or as a co-moderator to help me run CC if I have to be gone due to coursework or other matters). When this matter comes up, I will make it a priority to get a thread out expressing this. 

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Touche.

 

But I don't actually have much say in whether the notion is considered any more. XD

 

And I'd still expect some members to be insta-removed from consideration, regardless of member say. Not because just one mod dislikes them, but because almost ALL of them do. I'm sure (no offense) that if there was a vote and an overwhelming majority said to make you a mod (again, no offense), the team would be "Uh...no, hell no."

None taken, but I would decline. Don't have energy or temperament for it. I'd be similar to Roxas in a lot of ways. Most of us know our short comings. And most of the community does too.

 

Hina would be a better example than me. Black, Dad, and Koko supported her iirc? She has support form number of debate peep, not sure if was fair or right for a veto there

[evilfusion]

None taken, but I would decline. Don't have energy or temperament for it. I'd be similar to Roxas in a lot of ways. Most of us know our short comings. And most of the community does too.

 

Hina would be a better example than me. Black, Dad, and Koko supported her iirc? She has support form number of debate peep, not sure if was fair or right for a veto there

 

I don't actually remember off-hand why Hina was thrown out of consideration, because I definitely remember saying that I didn't really care. (I just assume it's common knowledge that I essentially had Supreme Veto power, even among the Supers. People have gotten things changed, punishments revoked, or opportunities provided PURELY because that particular day, I didn't care enough to object. And that's why Dae regained his status privileges at one point.)

[(GigaDrillBreaker)]

Ftr I would support the sheet out of dova for CC modship.

 

Not that I think CC needs another mod, or would particularly benefit from one. Sakura would know better than me, and honestly this is a discussion for another night as I see it.

[Nathanael D. Striker]

I was trying so hard not to jump in this discussion and potentially make a fool of myself, but I fear I have to force myself to do so. Do note that part of this is going to sound extremely self-centered, but examples do help I guess.

 

Transparency has always seemed to be an issue of sorts with the moderator team; however, I don't think it has been as front and center as it has been until the CC promotions in 2014. Now, I would have thought that the whole dilemma with my modship would have inspired some changes, and in a way it has: the Junior Modship eventually being one of them. And if I do recall, greater transparency was promised back then and we sort of(?) got it.

 

I say sort of because of the Zai incident (if anyone has an example between me and Zai, feel free to step in). A lot of people here seems to argue that the incident was an example of backdoor dealings and spitting in the face of transparency, in spite of the fact that the rest of the proceedings were somewhat transparent, if I remember correctly.

 

Interestingly enough, Zai's promotion to PR Mod came with yet another promise of increased transparency, and once again we sort of got it. We got a nice Mod Transparency thread that the mods post in to let us know of some important things that are happening on the site, but here we are once again. This promotion feels rushed as the potential candidates weren't known until now, members weren't able to discuss who the mods had in mind, etc.

 

So, how do we go about to ensuring transparency when it is needed? I say we the members establish a set in stone transparency protocol to ensure that the chances of this happening again are slim to none, though that may be a discussion for another thread if people are interested; however, part of what I had in mind is for mods to post their plans like before and then give members a set time frame to comment on it, much like Dad did for the YCM Roast. If we establish something like that (and whatever people have in mind), then maybe it would work out for the best.

 

Sorry if this is all rambling and such, but I think some of this had to be said.

[Flame Dragon]

So replacement for Treb? There are a lot of active CC new bloods? Again wish you guys would ask around. Dova for example might be a neat CC mod?

When I realized the issues this had/how perfect the list we had for "people to consider" was I said out right that for if/when CC gets its new mod we would announce who we felt it would be best and see what the members have to say. We would then use that as well as our own discussion to figure out who the best choice would be.

 

I get my saying this doesn't mean much, but I am going to hold us to it.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Yeah I'm not sure where to go from here. Another TCG mod might be nice, but sleepy said No and idk if Darj would take it anymore. And you guys pretty much ruled out black

 

Atleast this round was more peaceful than the Zai affair

[Sleepy]

Yeah I'm not sure where to go from here. Another TCG mod might be nice, but sleepy said No and idk if Darj would take it anymore. And you guys pretty much ruled out black

 

Atleast this round was more peaceful than the Zai affair

 

 

I didn't really say no, but I wanted to be clear about expressing my insecurities/shortcomings towards it, and establish what I think generally in this thread, so that people could say "I still like the idea" or "never mind" after hearing me out. If people really wanted me despite my shortcomings, I'd be willing to do what I can and see if I can handle it. 

Though the thread is not about me, and I'm kinda sorry my comment on being more active at CC these days caused a small detour into talking of CC Modship ^^"

 

 

In my previous post I also forgot one thing to mention:

VCR CAT's bit did come off a bit like he was dismissed too early. Kind of like when Pokemon tried to get rid of Brock because they expected some sort of backlash because of his character. At least "he could be seen as too much of a fav pick" doesn't sound concrete enough to dismiss him IMO. Not saying I'm picking myself here, Darj is pretty good and I know him personally, and I have nothing for or against BrokeN. So yeah xD

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

I didn't really say no, but I wanted to be clear about expressing my insecurities/shortcomings towards it, and establish what I think generally in this thread, so that people could say "I still like the idea" or "never mind" after hearing me out. If people really wanted me despite my shortcomings, I'd be willing to do what I can and see if I can handle it. 

Though the thread is not about me, and I'm kinda sorry my comment on being more active at CC these days caused a small detour into talking of CC Modship ^^"

 

 

In my previous post I also forgot one thing to mention:

VCR CAT's bit did come off a bit like he was dismissed too early. Kind of like when Pokemon tried to get rid of Brock because they expected some sort of backlash because of his character. At least "he could be seen as too much of a fav pick" doesn't sound concrete enough to dismiss him IMO. Not saying I'm picking myself here, Darj is pretty good and I know him personally, and I have nothing for or against BrokeN. So yeah xD

I've interacted with both you and Darj a fair bit, and I can say I think either of you would be an amazing TCG mod

 

But it should be a community decision, so more would have to weigh in

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

Just for the record, the trial period is 1 MONTH (30 days), not a single week.
 

Ftr I would support the sheet out of dova for CC modship.

Not that I think CC needs another mod, or would particularly benefit from one. Sakura would know better than me, and honestly this is a discussion for another night as I see it.

 
I've spoken to Dova about it recently; right now, he's still busy with real life (i.e. examinations) and needs to get better acquainted with the current game before he can consider taking up a position.
 
Don't get me wrong, I talk to him often about various subjects offsite, and I've had no issues with his personality.
 
However, as I've said earlier, I will not be pushing the matter for promoting another Custom Card moderator at this time; least while I still have time to devote to my duties here, and handling my college work and so forth. When the time comes, I will make a thread about it with potential picks. 
 

Yeah I'm not sure where to go from here. Another TCG mod might be nice, but sleepy said No and idk if Darj would take it anymore. And you guys pretty much ruled out black

Atleast this round was more peaceful than the Zai affair

 
As Dad asked, does the section require another moderator to maintain order?
 
If this is the case, then use this thread to float potential candidates as to whom you would like, and we'll use your feedback to determine who gets this position. You would need to ask Darj, though I think he'd be up for it. 
 

So, how do we go about to ensuring transparency when it is needed? I say we the members establish a set in stone transparency protocol to ensure that the chances of this happening again are slim to none, though that may be a discussion for another thread if people are interested; however, part of what I had in mind is for mods to post their plans like before and then give members a set time frame to comment on it, much like Dad did for the YCM Roast. If we establish something like that (and whatever people have in mind), then maybe it would work out for the best.
 
Sorry if this is all rambling and such, but I think some of this had to be said.

 
Right now, we are working to stick with this plan (and also try to communicate with each more often when making such decisions).
 
If something comes up (like staff selections and any potential changes to section rules and all), you'll get ample time to review the choices and offer your own input.  

[Darj]

But let's be real, it's not like you would be bad in either spot (CC/TCG).  The issue then comes into question:  

 

a.)  Does TCG need two mods?

b.)  Does Sleepy's name suddenly push Darj out when he was the first one considered?

 

Why not consider both of us, instead of one pushing the other? Unless Sleepy outclasses me badly, but I'm pretty sure we both have different things to offer to the team.

 

Although TCG doesn't need 2 mods, IMO.

 

IDK what else to add. I have been keeping tabs in this thread and cannot but feel on the spotlight in a way, since I was one of the candidates. I appreciate some of you guys supporting me. Also I'm having second thoughts about Modship now. I mean, the situation has changed and I want to re-evaluate some things.

 

 

Anyway, for matters like this, and I am repeating stuff that was already said, but I mainly do so to show my support, IMO a good approach is to first ask the community for potential candidates, pick the top 3~4 and then select from there. Pretty much the way evilfusion was first elected and promoted, really.