TCG Moderator Decision

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

As most of you know already, Broke. N was recently tapped to succeed evilfusion, who resigned in the middle of last month due to his own reasons, as the new Yugioh TCG moderator. 

 
However, the process in itself was heavily flawed; both with us not soliciting your opinions about whom should take over, and the short amount of time that elapsed from my initial announcement to the actual promotion.

 

While this is already after the fact, we can at least explain to you why things turned out the way they did, and how to move forward for the future. 
 

=====
 
Why did TCG need a new moderator in the first place?
 
This had been in the works since evil's resignation, and trying to find him a successor that could be trusted. Before his retirement, evilfusion was asked if he had any successors in mind (as standard to let retiring moderators have some say in who succeeds them), but none came to mind for him.

 

As already mentioned on his resignation day, Flame would take over duties for all TCG until a new moderator was promoted to handle the area. 
 
In recent days, several members had brought it to our attention that there was an issue with the quality of posting and atmosphere in the section thereof, given lack of enforcement. While some of us would just step in to handle minor instances, we do not want to take over TCG full time (though it had been suggested in the past). Therefore, it was decided that a moderator who could actively keep track of this portion of TCG was needed. 
 

Why didn't you say something to us earlier?
 
This was an oversight on our part in wanting to keep things private until we could find out if the candidates we were looking for were actually interested / available. Once this was confirmed, we would let you know that things were going through.
 
Would making that thread eliminate many, or all of the issues that came up here? Yes, because you would see who we were considering, and provide us input on members who you had issues with, or others that may have been missed. Also would save the staff headaches in the long run.
 
====

Contrary to what the announcement said, we had been talking it over for a couple of days prior to it, but did not say this until the applications were actually given to candidates.

 

Nonetheless, this thread should've been posted before the fact; preferably when we were actually considering the matter.
 

Who else was on this list besides Broke. N?
 
Out of all the active users in TCG, there were two others who were filtered out to be potential candidates: Darj and VCR_CAT. 
 
Both of them were chosen due to their activity in the section, knowledge of the competitive game and overall mentality. We had gotten no complaints about their behavior in general.
 
Why weren't those two picked? 
 
In VCR's case, it had nothing to do with his personality, but rather conflict of interest, considering he is in close contact with three of the active moderators on this site (which are Dad, Yui and Zai) in Roleplaying. Therein lies the potential charge of an inside job / favoritism. 

 
(The above are not my words, but this was a reason given by those three.)
 
It is not an offense if you hang out in a section of YCM that most of the active staff also go into, but again, the issue here was potential favoritism claims. 
 
=====
 
In Darj's case, he was originally slated to be the replacement for evilfusion, given the above reasoning.

 

Looking over his record and questions posed as to how he would handle the section, we were satisfied with what plans he had in mind (facilitating HEALTHY discussion about design and seeing that members felt welcome without being alienated for viewpoints) and how he'd work with the rest of us on general forum matters. 
 
=====
 
To put it simply, the behavior in TCG (from observations and what members have told us) required a firmer approach to curb the issues that persist in there. These include general spamming, but also issues pertaining to how discussions pan out in the long term (both with how members interact, and card design, etc.)
 
 
Broke. N had major issues; he shouldn't have been chosen!
 
While the mod team did pick Broke. N due to his plans of reforming the section (and YCM as a whole later on), it was not without internal objections; mostly personality-based. 
 
The hope was that in light of these flaws, he would be able to communicate properly with you while creating order in the section. None of us were perfect when we first got the job; for those of us still here, the job molded us over time and made us better moderators. 

 

Right now, he's trying to see what kinds of problems you have with him, and how things can be fixed to make TCG better. All of you might've noticed his thread inside the section soliciting comments.

 

 
Now what? Is Broke. N going to remain in power for the next couple weeks?
 
At the moment, yes.

 

We are aware that he is not a popular choice due to his personality and many of you may not be as willing to accept him at this time.

 

However, we ask that you at least give him a chance to prove that he can be an effective moderator who can communicate with you all about what the section / YCM as a whole needs.

 

Reminder that he is still on a trial period and we're keeping tabs on how things work out for him. It is NOT a guarantee that he will be given full powers.
 

 

I wanted (X) to be TCG moderator instead!

 

While things have already gone up, the least we can do right now is at least see who you all would've preferred. As I mentioned above, that list was cut down to 2-3 members based on those of you who actively frequent the section and don't have any behavioral issues pertaining to them. 

 

That being said, we may have missed certain members who are more active than we thought they were. If they weren't chosen, either they were missed or there were concerns about their behavior / work ethic / ability to handle problems around YCM if they arise or other past issues that must be taken into consideration.

 

If you (did) have other candidates in mind, who would they have been?

 

 

How is this not going to happen again in the future?

 

Moving forward, the standard will be that if staff promotions come up for specific sections, there shall be a thread for you all to give opinions, and we will use your input to make a final decision.

 

Even if in the end, we don't vote someone in that we felt is suitable enough to handle the job, you'll least be able to have a say in the matter.

 

We will be seeing to it that this is indeed followed.

 

 

Why am I posting this instead of the appointed PR mod?

 

I was involved in this process to some extent, so I am morally obligated to at least tell you what went on with this discussion and definitely speak up about the matter.

 

Do I agree that we should've solicited input and actually talk it over more thoroughly? Yes, there should've been a more thorough discussion of this issue.

 

Most of you already know that I am not particularly sociable, but that is more on myself as a person due to outside factors. By doing this, hopefully I can be more open with you about what's going on (especially as I have higher expectations placed on me now).

 

===

 

 Speaking of PR mod, after some discussion among ourselves about how much the position actually worked since its inception, the decision was made to eliminate it.

 

While this means that PR moderator is no more, it does not mean that we will stop providing closure on site matters.

 

Rather, one of the other moderators will keep you updated in that transparency thread. Right now, that's usually Dad, Yui or myself in certain cases.

 

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This topic is zero tolerance.

All comments are expected to be of a civil nature.

 

Inflammatory behavior and spam will be punished accordingly.

 

 

====

[Darj]

Why am I posting this instead of the appointed PR mod?

 

I was involved in this process to some extent, so I am morally obligated to at least tell you what went on with this discussion and definitely speak up about the matter.

 

Do I agree that we should've solicited input and actually talk it over more thoroughly? Yes, there should've been a more thorough discussion of this issue.

 

Most of you already know that I am not particularly sociable, but that is more on myself as a person due to outside factors. By doing this, hopefully I can be more open with you about what's going on (especially as I have higher expectations placed on me now).

 

===

 

 Speaking of PR mod, after some discussion among ourselves about how much the position actually worked since its inception, the decision was made to eliminate it.

 

While this means that PR moderator is no more, it does not mean that we will stop providing closure on site matters.

 

Rather, one of the other moderators will keep you updated in that transparency thread. Right now, that's usually Dad, Yui or myself in certain cases.

 

=====

 

I find the parts in bold rather ironic. I mean, surely most of us already know by now that you aren't that much of a social person but... isn't exactly here where the PR Mod is supposed to come in? In the sense that he/she becomes a communication "bridge", so to speak, between the Mod team and the YCM community.

And yet... now you plan to eliminate the PR Mod position? That seems to me like taking a step backwards.

 

No comments about the rest as of now.

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

I should've worded it a bit differently to be less confusing, but rather that we're not going to have a moderator that handles solely public relations. Rather, it'll just fall on us already here to actually keep you in the loop about stuff when it comes up. That's sort of why we already made that thread in News.

 

More directly, Zai's not doing PR duties anymore specifically, but that responsibility will instead be shared among the active staff members; least among the three listed in the opening post as the ones who normally update it.

[Phantom Roxas]

So it's more like every mod will handle PR to some extent, rather than having a single dedicated position to that?

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

I'm happy with Broke N.'s promotion, but I think consulting the entire memberbase (of which the mod team is a part) to nominate the candidates for who will govern them would've been a much better idea than nominating candidates internally, though this seems to have been acknowledged in the OP anyway so all should be well moving forward with that in mind.

 

For the record Dr. Jolly Glot the III and Azuriena are currently very active and knowledgeable in TCG/OCG in spite of their post counts as they're very concentrated in that section (when there's a new card to announce it's usually Dr. Jolly Glot the III that makes the thread and whenever there's a ruling question Azuriena is the most trustworthy source). Neither have caused any sort of drama as far as I'm aware. 

[Kazooie]

This is ridiculous, you all know this?

 

Abolishing a position that isn't working because the moderator in it can't do the job is silly. That would be like saying because Yui hasn't made the Clubs section burst with life, Clubs should probably be removed entirely. 

That "thread in news"? You mean the absolutely butchery of transparency that you mostly use in order to shut down the idea of discussion over the new TCG moderator? With passive aggressive tones and very much implied "Don't question it, you had plenty of warning" that amounted to one little hint in a section that not everyone even visits?

 

I dunno, the more I look at it, I don't get why that "Abolishing the PR Position will make the rest of us be more transparent!" We all know how well that worked out before the position, 

 

funk man, bring me back now if it's this hard for you guys to handle it, move Zai into RP permanently, and let me take over the Transparency thread project like I had been doing from start. They need restructuring to be less chaotic anyway, the way you all are doing it makes them clunky to read and nearly impossible to go through in any organized manner.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

No one was more irritated with Zai's modship than me, but it seems he's doing a good job in R/P? And if not R/P'ers can call him out

 

Yui is pretty extroverted in contacting users, therefore I see no reason to shackle a role that Zai may no longer want on him.

 

I reject your premise that Zai is failing at PR mod. From what I've seen others have taken that role for a while now. We might as well just name Yui "PR Mod" and be done with it

[BANZAI!!!!]

Can’t get a hold of other mods at the moment and I won’t be here for long today anyway, so this is going to be quick and not in any way an official statement from the team. Just me, my opinion, and what I see going on.

 

I haven’t really been around for the past few days on account of the holidays, and so i’ve been largely hands-off in regards to pushing the promotion through. I gave my approval for it, as well as a few reservations I had, and afaik the rest of us were more or less of the same mind about it. Furthermore, most of the site seems to have similar opinions about him to the ones we do. I think we were all more or less on the same page.

 

Not that i’ve seen much protesting going on as of yet, but I’d be super appreciative if everyone sat back and gave Broken a chance to give his ideas a try. I would never have given him my support if I didn’t think he could do a good job, so at least until we go through the trial period lets keep things peacable (did I spell that right?). Thankyou.

 

As for PR, well, its hard line to walk.

 

I will not, and in my opinion we cannot justifiably relay every discussion we have in the mod forum to the rest of the site. It wouldn’t be fair to us to not have a place where we can discuss staff matters in private and without the need to choose our words carefully. That, and fankly most of the time we don’t have anything of substance to actually tell the memberbase about. If there’s a feeling that we’re witholding information for whatever reason, we really aren’t. Everything important gets reported publically, (even if its late or its something that we honestly shouldn’t have made public like White’s temp ban), and the rest of the content is either disciplinary stuff or things that are too early in the planning stages to bring to the site at large.

 

And here’s the other thing. What possible problem could there be with all of us trying to be more personable and communicative? Because thats what Sakura means by “all of us handling the PR role”. Straight up, we’re not trying to hide anything, or ignore members’ opinions. In this particular case things went through a little too quickly and we weren’t on the ball about informing everyone, and for that i apologize, but this shouldn’t be taken as indicative of callousness or favoritism on our part, just a scheduling mistake of sorts.

[evilfusion]

Ah, the joy of being retired and no longer being required to care.

 

But seriously...why are the members ALWAYS mad about stupid crap?

 

If the mods do X, scream about it, insist they should have done Y.

Okay, they do Y next time, possible oversight/misinterpretation. Scream at them for being dishonest.

Okay, they do a tweaked version of Y with better clarification. Scream at them for...I don't even remember what the problem was back then.

 

Actually, what annoys me more is that...why are ALL the mod team's apologies feel like they're the exact same thing?

 

Now, it's not that I don't think the mod team learns from their mistakes. I know WAY too well that they do, and they constantly reference "Oh, better make sure to do it this way next time, to avoid another sheet storm".

 

The problem is that it seems like people take issue with the approach no matter WHAT is done to prevent an issue. I'd ask what criteria the members would want for moderator appointments, but I already can guess that even with an absolute list of steps and criteria, it cannot reasonably be done that way because moderators have their own set of criteria of what to look for in moderator candidates that members don't need to consider themselves, but are fully aware they exist.

 

Which is why outright votes don't work. The "winner" can't necessarily be trusted with power.

 

For that matter...I didn't even win my "vote" when I became a mod six years ago. The members nominated candidates, and the mod team discussed the top 3 picks and settled on me, because I was the least problematic of the options. THAT'S HOW MOD APPOINTMENTS TEND TO WORK.

 

I just feel that in this case, any complaints are ridiculous. And this is coming from someone who personally would not have wholeheartedly supported Broken. I mean, I'm so indifferent it almost hurts, but I find the idea that one of these apology/explanation threads had to be made is just...dumb.

 

Really makes me not miss being a mod.

 

 

[(GigaDrillBreaker)]

Okay, they do a tweaked version of Y with better clarification. Scream at them for...I don't even remember what the problem was back then.

When was this?

 

I think even the mods agree they screwed the pooch on this one.

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

This thread didn't have to be made nor was it demanded for by the member base. It was a simple courtesy on Sakura's part and I don't think it was dumb at all. If anyone's screaming here, it's you evilfusion.

[Phantom Roxas]

funk man, bring me back now if it's this hard for you guys to handle it

 

Honestly, this is really the biggest problem in my view. Like evilfusion said, it seems that people will complain no matter is done to address certain issues. The mods could anticipate every single possible way that things could go wrong, and people still complain.

 

But that demand to just be brought back onto the mod team? That's really concerning. It seems like people are coming from a place of "Well if I was on the team, this would have turned out so much better!"

 

It seems like less like it's coming from a place of concern, and more out of a grab for power. I certainly don't know if that's actually the motivation behind these comments, but that's the impression they leave. I think that there are people who have genuine concerns.

 

Going several years ago back on this, but I remember an argument in a Sailor Moon thread where this exchange was made.

 

 

Let's get a few things straight:

 

1. I am eight years older than you.

2. I have been a member here longer than you.

 

Other than that, let us not try to interfere with each other's business.

1. Being older doesn't give you any moral high ground

2. Doesn't matter, Roxas is a mod

Then I wanna be a Mod too. How do I do so?

 

So, I don't know. I understand the people have legitimate concerns with the mod team. I apologize if this sounds like I'm painting every single person who has grievances with the mod team as if they're always going be grasping for power. With there are a couple of people where that very much seems to be the case.

[(GigaDrillBreaker)]

I don't recall you taking issue with Dad wanting back on the team when his schedule opened up. What's different about Birdie wanting back onboard?

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Why is Broke. N controversial? Darj would have been my choice, but Broke didn't really do anything bad (afaik)

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Ah, the joy of being retired and no longer being required to care.

 

But seriously...why are the members ALWAYS mad about stupid crap?

 

If the mods do X, scream about it, insist they should have done Y.

Okay, they do Y next time, possible oversight/misinterpretation. Scream at them for being dishonest.

Okay, they do a tweaked version of Y with better clarification. Scream at them for...I don't even remember what the problem was back then.

 

Actually, what annoys me more is that...why are ALL the mod team's apologies feel like they're the exact same thing?

 

Now, it's not that I don't think the mod team learns from their mistakes. I know WAY too well that they do, and they constantly reference "Oh, better make sure to do it this way next time, to avoid another sheet storm".

 

The problem is that it seems like people take issue with the approach no matter WHAT is done to prevent an issue. I'd ask what criteria the members would want for moderator appointments, but I already can guess that even with an absolute list of steps and criteria, it cannot reasonably be done that way because moderators have their own set of criteria of what to look for in moderator candidates that members don't need to consider themselves, but are fully aware they exist.

 

Which is why outright votes don't work. The "winner" can't necessarily be trusted with power.

 

For that matter...I didn't even win my "vote" when I became a mod six years ago. The members nominated candidates, and the mod team discussed the top 3 picks and settled on me, because I was the least problematic of the options. THAT'S HOW MOD APPOINTMENTS TEND TO WORK.

 

I just feel that in this case, any complaints are ridiculous. And this is coming from someone who personally would not have wholeheartedly supported Broken. I mean, I'm so indifferent it almost hurts, but I find the idea that one of these apology/explanation threads had to be made is just...dumb.

 

Really makes me not miss being a mod.

Well you guys never did it our way. There was an election held and you guys privately knocked off the top 3 candidates and never told us. This time there wasn't an election.

 

You guys got a fine mod choice, but let's not pretend it was anything more than chance. The team certainly didn't "learn" from the Zai incident. I suppose we got Yui eventually as a consolation after he was unfairly ax'd and he eventually took over the PR role he should have gotten, but NONE of that was designed. You guys lucked out. Same with BrokeN

[Phantom Roxas]

I don't recall you taking issue with Dad wanting back on the team when his schedule opened up. What's different about Birdie wanting back onboard?

Because like you said, his schedule opened up. I don't recall him saying he should be let back on the team in response to what he felt was a failure on someone else's part.

[Dad]

Iun give a funk bout the rest of this but if Birdie want back in I'm all for it.

[Yui]

I suppose we got Yui eventually as a consolation after he was unfairly ax'd

Reminder that I stepped down from the PR mod election of my own volition. Pretty sure I would have won if I didn't.

 

EDIT: Wait, I remember now...

Now I'm bitter again that nobody at least told me as it happened :|

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Reminder that I stepped down from the PR mod election of my own volition. Pretty sure I would have won if I didn't.

 

EDIT: Wait, I remember now...

Now I'm bitter again that nobody at least told me as it happened :|

Pretty sure Birdie got more votes than you, but yeah it would have been you and Birdie, and barring you, it would have been Giga and Birdie, and barring that it would have been Hina and Birdie. See my pt? 

 

Evil is wrong

 

"it's not that I don't think the mod team learns from their mistakes. I know WAY too well that they do, and they constantly reference"

 

This is false, and everyone knows it. Zai is water under the bridge, but we were pretty clear what we disliked about his rise

 

Mods could just hold a democratic election without their last minute hunger games and the userbase would have literally no grounds to complain. Instead of taking a step forward, they doubled down.

 

I personally have nothing against Broke N. Others seems to have pretty serious charges they wish to press. This is what a trial period will flush out. But this isn't about me liking the choice or not, I'm more annoyed nobody learned from their mistakes

[(GigaDrillBreaker)]

Pretty sure Birdie got more votes than you, but yeah it would have been you and Birdie, and barring you, it would have been Giga and Birdie, and barring that it would have been Hina and Birdie

 

 

See my pt? The mods could just hold a democratic election without their last minute hunger games and the userbase would have literally no grounds to complain

Even ideally, the votes wouldn't have directly determined the outcome, at least in my opinion.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Even ideally, the votes wouldn't have directly determined the outcome, at least in my opinion.

Please elaborate 

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the mods went against the people's choice on General Mod (this was when I was still around)

 

The rapid decline of Debates & General after my banning shows the Mod Team did not do enough to keep the section alive. That was literally the most active section before I got shafted. Brightflame and Jack haven't posted in months. Vla1ne barely posts. 

 

There were more than enough opposing view points that me being banned should not have killed a section that coughed out 100+posts daily. 

 

At some pt one needs to be willing to try something different (in this case a democratic approach) to see if that works

[(GigaDrillBreaker)]

I don't think democratically choosing the PR mod would have saved an unrelated section.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

I don't think democratically choosing the PR mod would have saved an unrelated section.

PR mod doesn't matter, Birdie did what she was elected to do, and did it well

 

It was maybe a month later when they started shifting mods around? Remember Aix has that post where he stepped down and called on like 3-4 others to resign? Around then. Mods didn't as Evil suggested, learn from the PR mod messup there either

 

---

 

I've been informed my memory is off

 

Birdie and Giga were apparently tied, and Cowcow was a few votes less in PR mod election

 

I could swear Hina and Yui were the next closest, but it's been a while

 

---

 

Is Yui the defacto PR mod? He's the one who's been outgoing to new members and responding to PM's afaik, just wasn't sure (If so good choice IMO)

 

---

 

I honest to god don't give a funk. There were 1-3 people I would have chosen over Broken for TCG, but we have bigger problems. Since my banning we've lost 6 "veteran" members who have not returned. The card maker is going to sheet, and nobody is willing to take a chance to fix it. We can't even get the god damn Christmas lights up. We're so dysfunctional this literally does not matter in the grand scheme of things

[Flame Dragon]

Personally I'm not for actual elections being used to determine the new mods. It is messy and the mod team's thought should hold more weight then the member base. However if we call it an election we should treat it as such.

 

As Sakura said we filtered a list of names down to the ones mentioned and that is ultimately where I feel we went wrong. That full list should have been made public to gauge member thoughts on the various inclusions. Some of them were literal 0% to get the job, but it not only would have avoided the drama this created, but let us know if we missed anyone. As Sakura said, going forward this is the proceed we will follow when appointing new mods. Create a list of names, present it for member feedback, and then the team will decide who will be given the position based on the discussion had with the members and with each other.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Personally I'm not for actual elections being used to determine the new mods. It is messy and the mod team's thought should hold more weight then the member base. However if we call it an election we should treat it as such.

 

As Sakura said we filtered a list of names down to the ones mentioned and that is ultimately where I feel we went wrong. That full list should have been made public to gauge member thoughts on the various inclusions. Some of them were literal 0% to get the job, but it not only would have avoided the drama this created, but let us know if we missed anyone. As Sakura said, going forward this is the proceed we will follow when appointing new mods. Create a list of names, present it for member feedback, and then the team will decide who will be given the position based on the discussion had with the members and with each other.

Why? Let's look at it empirically? Of the recent mod choices you guys have made, how many worked out?

 

General pretty much elected Dad, and he's still going strong. The people the mod team has chosen seem to be playing musical chairs with mod assignments 

 

Calling something that is clearly not an election an election is the wokest take one can get from this.

 

I mean are you guys really not concerned about our low new member retention rate, or bleeding of veterans...or dysfunctional site

 

No offense to Sakura, but he had literally not asked Evilfusion for the ACP password to change the lights....like c'mon...the team is dysfunctional and people need to stop shrugging and start cleaning sheet. IMHO, Yui is the only one doing his job and not pointing fingers as to why he can't do it