Winter's Ban

[VCR_CAT]

Relatively uninformed on the situation, just want to ask: What's changed since the last million times Winter was an jabroni to make this one instance a bannable offense? Just for clarity's sake, thread has a lot of really long posts that I cba to read.

 

I think that's addressed in either page 1 or 2. Sorry, it might take a bit of reading to find it, and I'm not sure how satisfactory of an answer it will be, but it should be an answer nonetheless.

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

Those actions included attempting to influence others

 

This is not by any means an offence and you will not quash his influence by making a martyr of him.  

[BANZAI!!!!]

I don't mean any one time. IT was a lot of times. I'm the only mod that brought up the sheer amount of reports re:Winter, when many of them were bullshit, and I'm just about the only person to bring up any other member as a problem during this time. I believe Sakura did one or two times for the people who just rephrase something instead of adding content, and Dad/etc. mentioned Shard a few times. That's it. Even then, I didn't bring up many, because there weren't that many to bring up, unless you want to say the whole of debates. It's wrong to retroactively say "your sins that were lightly or unpunished have piled up, now suffer for them". My problem isn't even the ban. It's the handling, timing, and attitude of "Well we did the right thing, who cares about the reasons" that are coming from this. That was always my problem with banning Winter, because the team took the worst avenues to doing it. Pussy Grabbing jokes, daring to insult someone, oftentimes when that person insulted him first, and just being disagreeable in general. There was never any "we should ban him now", unless it was a reaction to something minor like this, and no one was ever able to supply actual reasons to ban him that weren't based in opinion or personal bias. So, as a former member of the team, and based on Winter telling me of his last interaction with Evilfusion a week ago, I have a hard time believing that this is anything but "Right thing, wrong reasons". Yes, I was guilty of calling for his head before. But I realized why I shouldn't do that and tried to not target him.

I can't speak for the rest of the team necessarily, but me personally, i wasn't gunning for winter. This wasn't even the result of the two threads mentioned above, or any other trivial event. Simply put, we acted on something we'd been floating around for awhile. The supers (sans night) were largely hands off until i brought up doing the ban directly yesterday. And yes, i know what that looks like, but

cross my heart its not something I did because I or anyone else had a vendetta aginst winter. Taking my tenure as a mod and the opinions that many, many users have expressed to me during that period, i decided to prompt the team to take action. They agreed.

[Blake]

I can't speak for the rest of the team necessarily, but me personally, i wasn't gunning for winter. This wasn't even the result of the two threads mentioned above, or any other trivial event. Simply put, we acted on something we'd been floating around for awhile. The supers (sans night) were largely hands off until i brought up doing the ban directly yesterday. And yes, i know what that looks like, but

cross my heart its not something I did because I or anyone else had a vendetta aginst winter. Taking my tenure as a mod and the opinions that many, many users have expressed to me during that period, i decided to prompt the team to take action. They agreed.

Wait, wait, wait. @Bold

 

That's literally evidence this was done in a kneejerk. No one denied there's been a stewing issue over Winter, but the issue was that this happened right after he got really vocal, alongside Shard, over feelings of power abuse.

 

And then you say the actual ban went into motion yesterday?

 

Hm.

 

Yeah.

 

Makes sense.

[Aerion Brightflame]

I think you're misconstruing what i'm saying. Its not about what his opinions were. Several people clearly have a problem with how we've been doing things and i'm not pushing for their bans or their silence. This is about what you do and how you conduct yourself. His collective actions got him banned, not his opinions. Those actions included attempting to influence others, but its less about what he thought and why he was saying it, and more about the adverse effects those actions had on the community.

 

Again, we aren't censoring anyone, and the fact that this keeps somehow coming back to us trying to censor the forum shows just how bad things have gotten because of winter. What possible motivation would we have for doing so? Its not about supressing views and opinions. If anything of the sort, this is an effort to protect the rest of the userbase and make the site safer for them to speak.

 

But aren't you guys influencing us? Telling us what behavoir is fair, what ways one can conduct themselves ect ect. What makes it anything other than personal opinion as to what influence is adverse or not? Why do you get to influence us, but Winter doesn't?

 

And it doesn't matter if it's to 'protect the rest of the userbase' - Short of legitimate legal concerns, and things that are pursuing harm to others, why is the forum less safe to speak in with Winter around? Because he might argue against you? Why is that a danger worth removing someone from the forum for? And then say, why is swearing not dangerous for the forum?

 

Just as I've never believed that people are going 'f*** you you are a conservative' I don't think any of this stuff I'd view as censorship is out of malice, I do think you have our best interests in heart. You are just over-reaching, and unintentionally buying into the complaints of you. I.E. in trying to make the place 'safe' your are infringing upon what we can or can't say in one manner or other

[VCR_CAT]

My problem isn't even the ban. It's the handling, timing, and attitude of "Well we did the right thing, who cares about the reasons" that are coming from this. That was always my problem with banning Winter, because the team took the worst avenues to doing it. Pussy Grabbing jokes, daring to insult someone, oftentimes when that person insulted him first, and just being disagreeable in general. There was never any "we should ban him now", unless it was a reaction to something minor like this, and no one was ever able to supply actual reasons to ban him that weren't based in opinion or personal bias.

 

So, as a former member of the team, and based on Winter telling me of his last interaction with Evilfusion a week ago, I have a hard time believing that this is anything but "Right thing, wrong reasons".

 

Yes, I was guilty of calling for his head before. But I realized why I shouldn't do that and tried to not target him.

 

My problem has a lot to do with this mindset. I have hard time believing there would any sort of timing or action that they could've done that would've pleased everyone, be it you or someone else. I'm sure Kook and others can tell you about how one of my biggest complaints of the mod team in the past has been their hesitancy to do anything. Toxic members like Yuuji got away with so much more blatantly bannable sheet in a singular act, and when I and others would go to a mod to get something done about it? We get the same bullshit of them having to go through proper channels gotta fill out the paperwork in triplecates wait 4-6 weeks for postage etc. People would just get away with sheet, because the mod team is just too scared to do anything, scared of reactions like the one you're giving now.

 

No, sheet is finally getting done. If you want my opinion? I don't care about the timing. I don't care about public announcements or w/e because the mod team doesn't actually need to do any of that, they honestly just need to do their job. Now they actually do their job for once, and we get the same ol' lynch mob of "BUT YOU DIDN'T DO IT IN A WAY I LIKE" Who the frick even cares about the mod team appearances or how it "looks", almost all of the members here have been around long enough that they can very easily figure out what's going on, most of everyone knows the mods by now anyways.

 

Should they have done a thing to post sooner? Yeah, probably, as soon as I found out it had happened I had told Dad "K, but you should get a statement ready, because sheet's gonna go down otherwise". (toldya so btw). I'm only going to fault them for not having a statement ready, but the whole deal of "timing" or w/e is just, um, who cares? We all know what the deal is, we know it's not the big BOOGY MAN BIG BROTHER situation it looks like because, as we explained to Paranthesis there's too much that doesn't add up for that to be the case, but also because we know the mods by now and we have an easier time to talk with them and figure out what's going on.

 

I get you're mad and you just wanna lambaste them for every little detail about this that you don't agree with, but what is that accomplishing at this point? The mod team got the message for future reference, if that ever becomes a thing in the future (hopefully it doesn't need to be). Has everything that needs to be said been said, or are you just seeking to continue the YCM tradition of blasting the mods for doing anything and create more drama for them actually doing their jobs for once?

[Blake]

My problem has a lot to do with this mindset. I have hard time believing there would any sort of timing or action that they could've done that would've pleased everyone, be it you or someone else. I'm sure Kook and others can tell you about how one of my biggest complaints of the mod team in the past has been their hesitancy to do anything. Toxic members like Yuuji got away with so much more blatantly bannable sheet in a singular act, and when I and others would go to a mod to get something done about it? We get the same bullshit of them having to go through proper channels gotta fill out the paperwork in triplecates wait 4-6 weeks for postage etc. People would just get away with sheet, because the mod team is just too scared to do anything, scared of reactions like the one you're giving now.

 

No, sheet is finally getting done. If you want my opinion? I don't care about the timing. I don't care about public announcements or w/e because the mod team doesn't actually need to do any of that, they honestly just need to do their job. Now they actually do their job for once, and we get the same ol' lynch mob of "BUT YOU DIDN'T DO IT IN A WAY I LIKE" Who the frick even cares about the mod team appearances or how it "looks", almost all of the members here have been around long enough that they can very easily figure out what's going on, most of everyone knows the mods by now anyways.

 

Should they have done a thing to post sooner? Yeah, probably, as soon as I found out it had happened I had told Dad "K, but you should get a statement ready, because sheet's gonna go down otherwise". (toldya so btw). I'm only going to fault them for not having a statement ready, but the whole deal of "timing" or w/e is just, um, who cares? We all know what the deal is, we know it's not the big BOOGY MAN BIG BROTHER situation it looks like because, as we explained to Paranthesis there's too much that doesn't add up for that to be the case, but also because we know the mods by now and we have an easier time to talk with them and figure out what's going on.

 

I get you're mad and you just wanna lambaste them for every little detail about this that you don't agree with, but what is that accomplishing at this point? The mod team got the message for future reference, if that ever becomes a thing in the future (hopefully it doesn't need to be). Has everything that needs to be said been said, or are you just seeking to continue the YCM tradition of blasting the mods for doing anything and create more drama for them actually doing their jobs for once?

This is a big wall of nothing. It is purely personal feelings and a very, very poorly veiled attempt to call my character into question. Which is the sort of thing Winter did that made people hate him.

 

They didn't do their jobs. I supplied evidence, in the quote you posted, that they did this out of their feelings being hurt by Winter. It doesn't matter if that's not what happened, because you are not a mod, and you can't say it wasn't. They can challenge it, but you cannot. It's just blind defending at that point.

 

Banning someone who was saying they abused their power, when evidence suggests the decision was made after he did such, on top of validating concerns of powr abuse from those members... It doesn't add up. The case against it being power abuse gets weaker by the post. I don't want that to be the case, but it certainly makes itself.

[BANZAI!!!!]

Wait, wait, wait. @Bold

 

That's literally evidence this was done in a kneejerk. No one denied there's been a stewing issue over Winter, but the issue was that this happened right after he got really vocal, alongside Shard, over feelings of power abuse.

 

And then you say the actual ban went into motion yesterday?

 

Hm.

 

Yeah.

 

Makes sense.

It wasn't a knee-jerk reaction, nor did I mean the supers were UNAWARE or would not have approved of what we were doing at any point. I simply meant that they didn't take an active role in any discipline that we had been discussing before i broached the subject of banning winter. And for the record, my thread in the mod forum was not the first time it had been brought up. We'd been floating it amongst ourselves way before the threads in general happened, and I'd been floating the thread thread that I did make for awhile as well.

 

Why would this even qualify as a knee-jerk reaction? Wouldn't that imply that we're afraid of winter "dethroning" us or something? Hell, i even suggested waiting a little bit on the ban last night before I went to bed, just in case we were heated or we came up with an alternative, and so that we may have had time to deliberate on making an anmouncement. I can pretty much assure you that everything we did was done rationally.

[Blake]

It wasn't a knee-jerk reaction, nor did I mean the supers were UNAWARE or would not have approved of what we were doing at any point. I simply meant that they didn't take an active role in any discipline that we had been discussing before i broached the subject of banning winter. And for the record, my thread in the mod forum was not the first time it had been brought up. We'd been floating it amongst ourselves way before the threads in general happened, and I'd been floating the thread thread that I did make for awhile as well.

 

Why would this even qualify as a knee-jerk reaction? Wouldn't that imply that we're afraid of winter "dethroning" us or something? Hell, i even suggested waiting a little bit on the ban last night before I went to bed, just in case we were heated or we came up with an alternative, and so that we may have had time to deliberate on making an anmouncement. I can pretty much assure you that everything we did was done rationally.

So you brought it up after the allegations, which no one was taking seriously, happened. And it finally took hold at that time. And your post here supplies more evidence to that point. It doesn't matter if you claim you worked on it before hand, because that isn't what actually happened. It was posted after his dissenting behavior, and then he was banned.

 

No, it implies you got sick of him, on a personal level, and got rid of it. Suggesting that people have never abused power just for the sake of making their lives easier is stupid, regardless of actual impact. Hell, I did that to Halu over something stupidly minor years ago, when I should have just removed the link and given him a slight warn for a mistake. We've made up, are perfectly chummy, but I damn well did do that.

 

No evidence being supplied makes this seem kosher. The problem isn't that you removed Winter, it's why, and what this means moving forward. The site is already extremely opposed to change or any sort of "this isn't right", so what does it mean if you're not even allowed to say that any more?

 

No one wants to believe that's true. One side wants you to convince them they're wrong and admit shortcomings. The other side wants to sweep it under the rug and continue to support with blind faith. But no one wants to believe it.

[VCR_CAT]

So you brought it up after the allegations, which no one was taking seriously, happened. And it finally took hold at that time. And your post here supplies more evidence to that point. It doesn't matter if you claim you worked on it before hand, because that isn't what actually happened. It was posted after his dissenting behavior, and then he was banned.

 

No, it implies you got sick of him, on a personal level, and got rid of it. Suggesting that people have never abused power just for the sake of making their lives easier is stupid, regardless of actual impact. Hell, I did that to Halu over something stupidly minor years ago, when I should have just removed the link and given him a slight warn for a mistake. We've made up, are perfectly chummy, but I damn well did do that.

 

No evidence being supplied makes this seem kosher. The problem isn't that you removed Winter, it's why, and what this means moving forward. The site is already extremely opposed to change or any sort of "this isn't right", so what does it mean if you're not even allowed to say that any more?

 

No one wants to believe that's true. One side wants you to convince them they're wrong and admit shortcomings. The other side wants to sweep it under the rug and continue to support with blind faith. But no one wants to believe it.

 

Do you even know what it is that you want changed at this point, or are you just stirring sheet up for the sake of stirring sheet up?

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

Zai, you're biased and let that bias determine how you moderate. You've done nothing to suggest otherwise.

 

If you want anyone to think you're not, you'd better lead the charge amongst the mod team to reverse this starkly political ban. 

[Blake]

Do you even know what it is that you want changed at this point, or are you just stirring sheet up for the sake of stirring sheet up?

i literally stated it in the last line

[Simping For Hina]

Let's get some sheet straight. YCM isn't a democracy. If the mod teams has a consensus between themselves to take action, they have every right to take damn action. It isn't fair, but who the funk cares?

 

I am not going to write a wall of text because that won't do anything. This is the shadiest thing that the mods have done. I have discussed this with Zai in full length, probably every side of it.

 

Winter wasn't banned because of any rule breaking. He was banned because he was a funking hardass that never gave time for other people, causing YCM to be a toxic environment for others and a catalyst for his attitude. It was unhealthy and didn't promote any sense of welcoming for newer members, or even open discussion from other members. Winter's ban was brought forth for, who knows, the better atmosphere of YCM, nothing more.

 

The mods did a shitty job at how they handled this. It could have been used at an opportunity to change the rules and lessen the effect of the vacuum that causes members like Winter to act the way they do. They pulled a trigger and it was a rash analysis. Timing doesn't mean anything, whether it was now or ten months from now. Don't act like that matters.

 

"Being an jabroni" might not be okay, but it is funking allowed to be done. Set the precedent and come forth with a decision. The mod team doesn't know how to act like a team. They go against their word to be open about things and they act like our opinion matters when they don't even take it into account. The mods do have power abuse, but that isn't the issue. The issue is that they want us to be involved in everything, but they make decisions without the members proper say. There is no open forum for discussion to how the rules are conducted and decisions are just made. They just take action how they think is best.

I can understand that since none of you fucks actually understand the difference between what is allowed and what shouldn't be allowed. The rules are there, but the moral background isn't conductive of it. Stop acting like your personal preference matters when you discount someone who was all about personal preference. You guys are the reason Winter was as toxic as he was. It wasn't his fault for any of this.

Zai, you're biased and let that bias determine how you moderate. You've done nothing to suggest otherwise.

 

If you want anyone to think you're not, you'd better lead the charge amongst the mod team to reverse this starkly political ban. 

Zai is biased but he hasn't acted on that bias. He does suggest otherwise and you just want someone to attack, when Zai didn't do anything other than start a fire for the pot. Piss off.

 

EDIT: I did write a wall of text.

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

This ban will not improve the atmosphere of YCM. 

 

Zai is biased but he hasn't acted on that bias. He does suggest otherwise and you just want someone to attack, when Zai didn't do anything other than start a fire for the pot. Piss off.

 

This ban was political. Zai's "starting a fire" was political. Zai's justifications for the ban are political. What has Zai ever done to suggest his actions aren't politically motivated? 

[Simping For Hina]

This ban will not improve the atmosphere of YCM. 

 

 

This ban was political. Zai's "starting a fire" was political. Zai's justifications for the ban are political. What has Zai ever done to suggest his actions aren't politically motivated? 

It wasn't Zai who caused the ban. What he did was get member's opinion on if the action would be okay. That is not on his own agenda or bias. That is through the opinion of others and their say. Zai basically did the opposite of acting on his own bias by getting information from other people. He didn't even pull the trigger on the ban, he didn't do anything with that. Zai isn't motivated for anything other than the better atmosphere of YCM, which a survey was conducted through the means of other members. He had nothing to do with the ultimate decision.

 

You're focusing on the wrong sheet here, using Zai as a catalyst because you don't seem to actually understand what is going on here. Stop acting on your own accord if you don't have all of the information. Shut the funk up, sit down, and go suck your thumb. Stop acting like a damn child after that. This shouldn't be about Winter's ban. That was going to be done at one point or another. It was only a matter of time. How this should change is how the mods conduct sheet like this again. Sure, Zai and Dad started this in the shittiest of ways, but Zai has taken action in the mod forum for different proposals. He isn't acting on bias. He is acting on majority rule. funking idiot.

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

It wasn't Zai who caused the ban. What he did was get member's opinion on if the action would be okay. That is not on his own agenda or bias. That is through the opinion of others and their say. Zai basically did the opposite of acting on his own bias by getting information from other people. He didn't even pull the trigger on the ban, he didn't do anything with that. Zai isn't motivated for anything other than the better atmosphere of YCM, which a survey was conducted through the means of other members. He had nothing to do with the ultimate decision.

 

You're focusing on the wrong sheet here, using Zai as a catalyst because you don't seem to actually understand what is going on here. Stop acting on your own accord if you don't have all of the information. Shut the funk up, sit down, and go suck your thumb. Stop acting like a damn child after that. This shouldn't be about Winter's ban. That was going to be done at one point or another. It was only a matter of time. How this should change is how the mods conduct sheet like this again. Sure, Zai and Dad started this in the shittiest of ways, but Zai has taken action in the mod forum for different proposals. He isn't acting on bias. He is acting on majority rule. funking idiot.

 

Majority rule and political bias here are not mutually exclusive.

 

What you've said right here is more toxic and rulebreaking than anything I've ever seen Winter post in Debates. Is your ban "going to be done at one point or another"? Probably not. Zaiduck and evilfusion liked your post. 

[Simping For Hina]

Majority rule and political bias here are not mutually exclusive.

 

What you've said right here is more toxic and rulebreaking than anything I've ever seen Winter post in Debates. Is your ban "going to be done at one point or another"? Probably not. Zaiduck and evilfusion liked your post. 

 

Now you're just start sheet over every litter pandering act. I am probably going to get banned at one point or another. I am not the most liked member on this site, but who cares? Zai didn't do anything on his own terms. He conducted a survey. He isn't responsible for anything more than that. The mod team should be the item of concern here, because they acted in more than one method and didn't do anything that shied away from the problems before hand. Zai isn't at fault. He just got numbers and people's opinions. There is /nothing/ wrong with that. At all. That is actually a good thing. The way it was done was the shitty part. Going behind people's backs and through back avenues that weren't directly this forum.

 

Stop making this more controversial than it is. We should be attacking the mod team, not one member of it. No one is personally at fault. I am not going to get into an argument of rhetoric. You just want someone to bash heads with and cherry pick each item that is brought up, but won't even address a main concern. The way you are arguing is nothing helpful to this place, you are just finding each sentiment to argue and it doesn't even seem clear what you understand and what you don't.

[BANZAI!!!!]

Can we not get heated in here, please? I don't wanna see the thread derailed.

[evilfusion]

You're not even focusing on the right picture anymore.

 

Zai's an easy target. He's controversial to some extent, and still inexperienced. He walks into a room with a target painted on him, and dissenters immediately pounce on him, while the real target walks away casually. It's like a more bizarre version of "Rabbit Season/Duck Season".

 

But that's the thing - you've focused almost all your effort on him now. Go nuts, but it won't bring you what you seek.

 

And yes, I did like Dae's post. What of it? I didn't like ALL of his posts. I didn't like every post that argued against you. I rarely like posts at all. I once WARNED a post that I liked. Point is, don't read too deeply into it.

 

I kept Dae on status ban for over a year. I don't favor him, nor turn a blind eye to misbehavior from him.

 

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

It's not my responsibility to know the contents of the mod forum, but I understand that Zai opened the question as to whether Winter should be directly permabanned (prompted, in my opinion, by his personal politics), the mod team came to an agreement and evilfusion permabanned Winter. Both of them have made arguments here in favour of the decision that simply don't suffice.  

 

Can we not get heated in here, please? I don't wanna see the thread derailed.

 

The heat seems rather lopsided. In fact, you co-signed the most heated post here.

 

Zai's an easy target.

 

I'm not targeting Zai, I'm beseeching him to do the right thing and to make amends for having done the wrong thing and that goes for you, too.

[Sunshine Jesse]

Could someone give me a short summary of the Life and Times of Winter? All I really have context on is his behavior in the Debates forum, where his crimes are limited to being a dickhead about things he doesn't understand and managing the Herculean task of being wrong on every issue.

 

He can be pretty toxic but I didn't actually see what he did wrong aside from saying mean things about brown people and stirring up sheet.

 

You guys don't have to, I'm just really curious about his actual history here.

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

He can be pretty toxic but I didn't actually see what he did wrong aside from saying mean things about brown people and stirring up sheet.

 

He didn't tend to directly flame people. He mostly attacked tone and what he saw as double standards, hypocrisy, and common prejudice. I don't politically see eye-to-eye with Winter on a whole lot of things, but he often made sourced and thought-provoking arguments based on what he saw as net gains and net losses to society (utilitarianism). He's also one of the main contributors in TCG. The site has a lot to gain from his being here.  

 

Winter is a "brown person", for the record. >_>

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

2) Consitency; If being a pest for two funking years (Or however long it's been) wasn't a cause for banning up till now, something had to change in order to validate the choice now. Either a new mod bringing a changing attitude and standards, or as it reads currently 'If they can't get with the program, there's only one inevitable conclusion anyway. Best not waste our time any further.'

Note: Didn't read the rest, saw this in my PM and wanted to say before I forgot what I was thinking.

I don't get why everyone is saying "Something had to have changed". When the only change I could see was the mods decided to finally actually do something instead of waffling.

[notcleverusername]

So with most my knowledge of this event being contained to what has been said in this thread, more inclined to support modteam here TBH since most the rest of other posts seem to be reading too deeply into every line and motivation

 

General thoughts

 

Blaming Zai for instigating Winter ban seems p funny when taken in tandem with blaming Zai for not knowing what was going on, esp considering when he only found out what happened after waking up

This is not by any means an offence and you will not quash his influence by making a martyr of him.  

His "influence"

Making him a "martyr"

Just wanted to highlight this because taking Winter seriously p bad for your mental health

In what world is Winter supposed to be held up as some sort of hero ROR

He didn't tend to directly flame people. He mostly attacked tone and what he saw as double standards, hypocrisy, and common prejudice. I don't politically see eye-to-eye with Winter on a whole lot of things, but he often made sourced and thought-provoking arguments based on what he saw as net gains and net losses to society (utilitarianism). He's also one of the main contributors in TCG. The site has a lot to gain from his being here.  

What he saw as double standards and hypocrisy was mostly just him being paranoid so w/e, most I'm willing to concede on that is that this action and its execution probably the only time in last few years he's had any remotely legitimate reason to contest it

"Main contributors in TCG" Yes because flooding the front page with 37 separate topics is "contribution"

For his actual posts it's hard to fault him, but that's probably mainly because most TCG posts are so inane, wrong, and/or kneejerk that it's hard to fault Winter for consistently being all of those things

Could someone give me a short summary of the Life and Times of Winter? All I really have context on is his behavior in the Debates forum, where his crimes are limited to being a dickhead about things he doesn't understand and managing the Herculean task of being wrong on every issue.

He can be pretty toxic but I didn't actually see what he did wrong aside from saying mean things about brown people and stirring up s***.

You guys don't have to, I'm just really curious about his actual history here.

Not too familiar with his YCM History specifically but basically Being Consistently Wrong (about YGO, mind you, I don't visit Debates and typically ignore his political opinions) and Being a Dickhead are reasonable summaries

Off top of my head, YGO-wise he is constantly convinced he's discovered New and Transcendent Meem when it's neither new nor transcendent, he gets petty when anyone argues vs basically any point he makes, he is convinced that most people have a vendetta against him and his opinions*.

Acknowledging that most of my heaviest interaction with him was on DNF where he was banned twice, my main memories of him are of him posting controversial F/L threads with little to no relevant argument to back it up, then taking every other post explaining he was wrong as a personal attack and responding with pointless drivel along the lines of BUT AD HOMINEM. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

*For the record, not saying most people don't. However, I will say that Winter does bring it on himself--there's only so long you can be interested and open-minded to the same broken record.

 

Winter was tolerable to me because he was amusing, but honestly the only problematic parts of his banning from what I can glean from this thread are A. Occurred suspiciously after he accuses modteam of power aboos in probably toxic thread that I haven't seen and probably don't want to see, and B. Was not accompanied by public statement.

His ban was, by any reasonable standards, inevitable, and searching for a "new reason" seems fruitless when it can easily be explained by the same reason this whole time--him being Winter. The timing issue should also be considered in the context that the timing should have occurred earlier.

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

So after reading all this I basically am seeing repeats of
"He shouldn't have been banned"

and

"What gives you the right to say he should be banned"

 

Which I don't get. From Zai's post literally all the mods besides one who wasn't there decided that, overall, Winter does more harm than good. That's all there is to it. The mods are supposed to make these calls. Sure they could have gone about it slower but keep in mind they HAVE been. They've warned Winter a lot. Made rules more strict. They've done many things that would "lead up" to a ban.

Also to those paranoid about the mods this thread is a great example of why not to be. They could have easily just locked this thread and said it was because it was way too heated or against the rules

(Which btw, I think it might be since one of the rules is to not publicly complain about punishments and instead take it to PMs with the mods themselves but unsure)

But instead they tried to explain themselves despite getting yelled at from multiple fronts and accused of some pretty crappy things.