The third Red Scare

[Halubaris Maphotika]

Ever since the controversial latest term of Vladimir Putin, Russia has become Public Enemy #1 to many countries in the western hemisphere. While this has been nothing new, the recent developments since the election of Donald Trump and Brexit are.

 

At first things weren't too bad. Mostly we stood in opposition to certain policies that Putin instated. It was nothing on par with the Red Scares decades ago. Now, however, we are seeing a massive rise in "Russophobia", or "Fear of the Russians". Accusations have been flying off the hinges from Progressive and Conservative activists, who claim that Russia instigated Britain's exit from the EU, that Russia illegally interfered in the 2016 presidential election of the United States, and that Russia is attempting to rebuild the lost territories of the former Soviet Union.

 

This is resulting in massive anxiety in many countries, but the United States is getting this the most. From Bill Maher to John McCain, politicians across the board are labeling accusations at Trump and at Russia, and the American public is fearing that Russia is beginning a process of takeover of America as we know it.

 

Patrick Lawrence of The Nation asserts that the US is inching closer and closer to a return to McCarthyism: https://www.thenation.com/article/the-perils-of-russophobia/

 

Finian Cunningham of Veteran's News Now feels that Russophobia has reached levels of psychosis: http://www.veteransnewsnow.com/2017/02/22/1014278-western-russophobia-in-psychotic-phase/

 

Adrian Vance of iPatriot also claims that we are returning to a level of Anti-Russian xenophobia not seen since McCarthyism: http://ipatriot.com/russiaphobia/

 

Dr. Arshad M. Khan asserts, in an article for Telesur, that this is no surprise from a country that praised the Vietnam War, Gulf War, Iraq War, and War in Afghanistan; and that it is being used by Hillary Clinton and Obama in order to distract the populace from asking about potential corruption within the Democratic National Convention and within Hillary and her associates: http://www.telesurtv.net/english/opinion/Political-Corruption-Fake-US-News-and-Russiaphobia-20170404-0020.html

 

What does YCM think? Should we fear Russia right now? Or is rampant Russophobia rearing it's ugly head in America once again?

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

The one concerning Russia's involvement in our last election is still on the table, and given the recent crap concerning some of the cabinet's affiliations, I wouldn't be surprised if the investigation does confirm that Trump colluded with Putin to win. But that being said, if this is true, then Trump is effectively becoming Putin's puppet by not being harder on him for his involvement in the Syrian refugee crisis, among other things.

 

We need to take Russia seriously (because they have a very bad habit of getting their noses involved in other countries' affairs), but I don't feel that this amounts to Red Scare hysteria like in the 1950s. Right now, get to the bottom of this and see if Putin had a hand in rigging our elections or nothing at all. 

 

I will say that Trump needs to be firm with Putin; which I have doubts of his capacity to do so at the moment (or really doing things that aren't going to make the US even worse off).

 

====

I cannot speak for the other issues that Russia's accused of being involved with. 

[Resident Fascist]

Ever since the controversial latest term of Vladimir Putin, Russia has become Public Enemy #1 to many countries in the western hemisphere. While this has been nothing new, the recent developments since the election of Donald Trump and Brexit are.

 

 

Implying Hilary Clinton isn't the most evil, corrupt person to ever run for the presidency. "Hurr Russia" honestly feels like a push by the Democratic party to attempt to de-legitimise DJT's presidency. 

 

 

 

 

At first things weren't too bad. Mostly we stood in opposition to certain policies that Putin instated. It was nothing on par with the Red Scares decades ago. Now, however, we are seeing a massive rise in "Russophobia", or "Fear of the Russians". Accusations have been flying off the hinges from Progressive and Conservative activists, who claim that Russia instigated Britain's exit from the EU, that Russia illegally interfered in the 2016 presidential election of the United States, and that Russia is attempting to rebuild the lost territories of the former Soviet Union.

 

 

No, Obama allowed Putin to annex parts of Georgia without really doing anything except talk about the long moral arc of the universe and the fact Putin's on the wrong side of history, because Obama legitimately hates America and feels Western society is evil. Why do you think he was in good with the Iranians? As for Brexit, no, Britain has long hated the European Union. We hated it since we went into it, we were lied to. We went into an open market, not a German-controlled European Police State. How exactly does a country make another country vote on something how they want? You can say that every country has an influence on elections then. 

 

  As for praising the Vietnam, Gulf and Iraq/Afghanistan Wars, that's something every rational and logical person should probably do, provided you aren't an oxygen deprived leftie who thinks the world is the League of Super Friends. The biggest mistake in Vietnam was betraying the South Vietnamese. Why on earth did we think the Communists would uphold their word to not invade the South? America knows well the only Communist you can trust is the dead ones. Gulf War was stopping a dictator from taking more and more resources. Pretty logical if you ask me. Iraq, getting rid of said dictator. Afghanistan, targeting terrorists who had recently attacked America. 

 

 Except very early in her history, the United States has never gone to war for her own ends. American military co-operation has not only been useful, but instrumental in defeating the powers of fascists, extremists and other evils worldwide. I'm not saying you can't criticise America, but she's never had an enemy who wasn't in one way or another, completely evil.

 

tldr: Democrats being Anti-American and trying to undermine what has been a good presidency thus far. 

[Delibirb]

Implying Hilary Clinton isn't the most evil, corrupt person to ever run for the presidency. "Hurr Russia" honestly feels like a push by the Democratic party to attempt to de-legitimise DJT's presidency. 

 

 

 

 

No, Obama allowed Putin to annex parts of Georgia without really doing anything except talk about the long moral arc of the universe and the fact Putin's on the wrong side of history, because Obama legitimately hates America and feels Western society is evil. Why do you think he was in good with the Iranians? As for Brexit, no, Britain has long hated the European Union. We hated it since we went into it, we were lied to. We went into an open market, not a German-controlled European Police State. How exactly does a country make another country vote on something how they want? You can say that every country has an influence on elections then. 

 

  As for praising the Vietnam, Gulf and Iraq/Afghanistan Wars, that's something every rational and logical person should probably do, provided you aren't an oxygen deprived leftie who thinks the world is the League of Super Friends. The biggest mistake in Vietnam was betraying the South Vietnamese. Why on earth did we think the Communists would uphold their word to not invade the South? America knows well the only Communist you can trust is the dead ones. Gulf War was stopping a dictator from taking more and more resources. Pretty logical if you ask me. Iraq, getting rid of said dictator. Afghanistan, targeting terrorists who had recently attacked America. 

 

 Except very early in her history, the United States has never gone to war for her own ends. American military co-operation has not only been useful, but instrumental in defeating the powers of fascists, extremists and other evils worldwide. I'm not saying you can't criticise America, but she's never had an enemy who wasn't in one way or another, completely evil.

 

tldr: Democrats being Anti-American and trying to undermine what has been a good presidency thus far. 

Democrats may be too far in pointing fingers at everything, but you're on the opposite extreme, which isn't good either.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

I support embracing Russia- we have less and less in common with SJW, neo-Marxist, Islamic Europe.

 

NATO is a liability for us at this point- leave it- form new pacific alliance with Russia, Japan, and Australia.  

 

Work out a bilateral defense deal with the UK

[Resident Fascist]

Democrats may be too far in pointing fingers at everything, but you're on the opposite extreme, which isn't good either.

 

No, when America does sheet wrong, I'll call them out for it. Examples: The Tuskegee Syphilis Experiments, giving weapons to the Mujaheddin. Not every culture comes from the same moral standards as America's, which is why giving guns to 3rd world countries is dumb. The idea itself was sound. Give guns to the people to fight for their freedom. However, the people they gave guns to do not want freedom. From the standpoint of the Cold War, America had it's hands tied. When the Soviets invaded Afghanistan, a huge catalyst for a lot of the mess we're still cleaning up to this day, America could not intervene to Afghanistan's defence, because this would put America in direct conflict with the Soviet Union. Very quickly, the situation would escalate and may have resulted in nuclear exchanges, which benefits nobody. However, in the same token, America didn't want to let the Soviets have Afghanistan for the reason of it increases the Soviet Union's power, and puts another nation under an oppressive Communist regime. From that perspective, what America did was somewhat rational.

 

 When people say it's not right for America to force her values onto other countries, you have to actually look at America's values. Capitalism is the fairest economic system. Freedom of speech, freedom of religion and freedom of movement, universal suffrage and an opposition to slavery. Please tell me which of these values are bad, again? The idea that America is evil is mostly paraded around by those who are truly evil. 

 

 I don't particularly agree with supporting Russia as is, but Russia will likely take on some American values if it grows closer to America. They're better allies than the Europeans, who are mostly just sucking America's blood and busy driving themselves down into the ground by being such moral busybodies.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Ever since the controversial latest term of Vladimir Putin, Russia has become Public Enemy #1 to many countries in the western hemisphere. While this has been nothing new, the recent developments since the election of Donald Trump and Brexit are.

 

No, he's the number one enemy to Democrats, and certain war mongering republicans like McCain

[Sunshine Jesse]

The anti-Russia hysteria is pretty ridiculous to me. Some of it is valid, sure, but one of the few things I unilaterally agree with Trump on is when he said that we weren't so innocent. Putin is an authoritarian, autocratic PoS and Russia, as a country, is pretty shitty, but we're really not much better than them in literally any respect (outside of power on the world stage) so we shouldn't act like we have the moral high ground in any respect just because we treat our people a little better and our political system has a veneer of fairness that Russia's does not.
 
There's also the fact that any theoretical "election hacking" (which may or may not have happened!) would be entirely justified given the things Clinton advocated for, which were ACTUAL ACTS OF WAR and not a security breach that provided us information we should've had to begin with.

Implying Hilary Clinton isn't the most evil, corrupt person to ever run for the presidency. "Hurr Russia" honestly feels like a push by the Democratic party to attempt to de-legitimise DJT's presidency.

I mean she was bad but she wasn't that bad.
 
 

When people say it's not right for America to force her values onto other countries, you have to actually look at America's values. Capitalism is the fairest economic system. Freedom of speech, freedom of religion and freedom of movement, universal suffrage and an opposition to slavery. Please tell me which of these values are bad, again? The idea that America is evil is mostly paraded around by those who are truly evil. 
 
 I don't particularly agree with supporting Russia as is, but Russia will likely take on some American values if it grows closer to America. They're better allies than the Europeans, who are mostly just sucking America's blood and busy driving themselves down into the ground by being such moral busybodies.

 

Modern American Capitalism is by no means the fairest economic system and all of those "freedoms" we have are undermined by the engineering of public opinion.

 

We shouldn't be projecting our values onto anyone until we actually follow them.

[VCR_CAT]

I support embracing Russia- we have less and less in common with SJW, neo-Marxist, Islamic Europe.

 

There's a big, big difference between democratic socialism and authoritarian communism, and I wish you'd actually educate yourself on that manner instead of continuing to bask in your ignorance for the sake of belittling those that you don't agree with.

[Dad]

There's a big, big difference between democratic socialism and authoritarian communism, and I wish you'd actually educate yourself on that manner instead of continuing to bask in your ignorance for the sake of belittling those that you don't agree with.

There is a difference. So instead of stooping and derailing the argument, share the difference.

[Sunshine Jesse]

There is a difference. So instead of stooping and derailing the argument, share the difference.

I'm going to keep it (overly) simple.

 

Democratic Socialism is a democratic society with an effective social safety net. It generally prioritizes the needs of the worker and society over the needs of the market, for better or worse, but contrary to what baggage people attach to the term, the market is still mostly free as long as it's not at the expense of the laborer and consumer. Corporations don't like this because, to them, laborers are a commodity to be bought, sold, and tossed aside at a whim, so anything that threatens their ability to easily do this is a huge affront on their rights.

 

And naturally, people have fallen for the corporate propaganda hook, line, and sinker, like they always do.

 

Authoritarian communism is when the means of production are completely centralized into a powerful government. The market is not free and production is determined solely by this central power. I generally have problems with authority so I can't really explain further in an unbiased manner.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

There's a big, big difference between democratic socialism and authoritarian communism, and I wish you'd actually educate yourself on that manner instead of continuing to bask in your ignorance for the sake of belittling those that you don't agree with.

If I wanted to accuse Europe of being full of "Authoritarian Communism", I would have just said that instead of beating around the bush. Marx, and thus NeoMarxism, would have hated the AC nations like Stalin's Russia. 

 

---

 

Furthermore, given this is where I lie on the political compass: 

 

 

I'm not sure in what world me calling someone an authoritarian communist (which I did not, but you falsely accused me of never the less) would be an insult.

 

So, I bid you to please refrain from putting words in my mouth, funk off, and otherwise have a pleasant rest of the day good sir.

[Resident Fascist]

 

Modern American Capitalism is by no means the fairest economic system and all of those "freedoms" we have are undermined by the engineering of public opinion.

 

We shouldn't be projecting our values onto anyone until we actually follow them.

 

Name a fairer economic system. Also, American freedoms aren't undermined what the funk. People of religions aren't being threatened. Gays aren't being killed in the streets. People aren't being arrested for talking against the state. That's what actual freedoms being undermined means. Ffs. 

[Sunshine Jesse]

Name a fairer economic system. Also, American freedoms aren't undermined what the f***. People of religions aren't being threatened. Gays aren't being killed in the streets. People aren't being arrested for talking against the state. That's what actual freedoms being undermined means. Ffs. 

I'm no capitalist but I'm pretty sure actual capitalism is fairer than what we have now, which is an oligarchical corporatocracy where we're given rights by piecemeal in order to starve off revolt.

 

Also, the fact that there's worse going on in the world doesn't mean that what's going on here is excusable. America can deal with American problems and Asscrackistan can deal with Asscrackistanian problems.

 

You should try living in America before you shill for it so hard.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

 

Our Anti-Russian Deepstate fast at work. Cause you know, Assad is obv gonna gas his own people right after the US president makes peace with him and peace talks start. Disgusting 

[a bad post]

Name a fairer economic system. Also, American freedoms aren't undermined what the f***. People of religions aren't being threatened. Gays aren't being killed in the streets. People aren't being arrested for talking against the state. That's what actual freedoms being undermined means. Ffs. 

Muslim and Jewish people are being threatened and LGBT people are bing killed for being who they are. Just because the government doesn't condone it doesn't mean it it isn't happening.

 

 

 

Our Anti-Russian Deepstate fast at work. Cause you know, Assad is obv gonna gas his own people right after the US president makes peace with him and peace talks start. Disgusting 

This kinda just shows your ignorance of how Assad and other middle eastern dictators operate. They literally do not care about achieving peace, they just want to keep an iron grip on power. Besides Assad doesn't need Trump he's got Putin in his corner keeping anybody from intervening in what he's doing to his people, plus he's got the threat of ISIS and Al Nusra to keep any Western powers from intervening against him anyway. 

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

It wasn't funking Assad who gassed the people. And based on the safety workers, it wasn't sarin either. Those paramedics would be dead if it was

 

Assad used chemical weapons he doesn't have in a war he's winning just so that the US can "take own action" in sovereign Syria. Logical.

 

John McCain Types, the Deep State, and the Bitter Dems all want to use McCarthyism and proxywars to destroy any chance of a Trump-Putin relationship

[a bad post]

It wasn't f***ing Assad who gassed the people. And based on the safety workers, it wasn't sarin either. Those paramedics would be dead if it was

 

Assad used chemical weapons he doesn't have in a war he's winning just so that the US can "take own action" in sovereign Syria. Logical.

 

John McCain Types, the Deep State, and the Bitter Dems all want to use McCarthyism and proxywars to destroy any chance of a Trump-Putin relationship

I'm sorry, but where is your evidence of this? Because somebody messed up on what type of gas was used? Just because it wasn't sarin doesn't mean Assad didn't gas his people, it's not like he has any qualms about it. Also, Assad's always been winning that war, and it hasn't stopped him from using chemical weapons before. You wanna talk about logical then stop trying to bring crazy conspiracy theories into a factual discussion.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

I'm sorry, but where is your evidence of this? Because somebody messed up on what type of gas was used? Just because it wasn't sarin doesn't mean Assad didn't gas his people, it's not like he has any qualms about it. Also, Assad's always been winning that war, and it hasn't stopped him from using chemical weapons before. You wanna talk about logical then stop trying to bring crazy conspiracy theories into a factual discussion.

Maybe because the old SOS (Democrat John Kerry) assured us that all the Syrian gas was removed? Also it was never proved that Assad was the one who did the gas attack back in 14. It was always the rebels.

 

There is no conspiracy here. Relations with America and UK were increasing. Boris Johnson and Trump both said Assad can stay. 2 days later Assad gasses children in a war he's already winning? Nice. Pro-Rebel reporters report the bombing before it happens. The White hats are walking around in Sarin gassed areas w/ no harm?

 

There's a lot of shady details here. It does matter if it wasn't Sarin cause that's just another lie our filthy IC fed us and the president 

[a bad post]

Maybe because the old SOS (Democrat John Kerry) assured us that all the Syrian gas was removed? Also it was never proved that Assad was the one who did the gas attack back in 14. It was always the rebels.

 

There is no conspiracy here. Relations with America and UK were increasing. Boris Johnson and Trump both said Assad can stay. 2 days later Assad gasses children in a war he's already winning? Nice. Pro-Rebel reporters report the bombing before it happens. The White hats are walking around in Sarin gassed areas w/ no harm?

 

There's a lot of shady details here. It does matter if it wasn't Sarin cause that's just another lie our filthy IC fed us and the president 

Yes, and intelligence has been wrong before, and besides just because Syria got rid of all their gas doesn't mean they don't have access to it. Let's not forget their little Russian buddies. You can't just pick and choose when you want to believe the intelligence community...

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

[Resident Fascist]

Muslim and Jewish people are being threatened and LGBT people are bing killed for being who they are. Just because the government doesn't condone it doesn't mean it it isn't happening.

 

 

Umm, examples please?

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Umm, examples please?

inb4 Mathew Shepard

 

no he was killed by his gay lovers pals

[Resident Fascist]

inb4 Mathew Shepard

 

no he was killed by his gay lovers pals

 

A one off is also not an epidemic. It's tragic, yes, but hardly something to worry about on a federal level. As for Syria, I mostly blame Obama's weak foreign policy. After his proverbial red line was drawn, he then backed down from it. That shown to the world's worst players, your Russias, Irans and Islamist terror organizations that the bulwark of the free world was not going to make itself involved. When the president says he's going to do something, he needs to do it, whether it was the correct choice or not. When America is seen as weak, violating basic human freedoms is easy for the world's worst. Obama was too afraid to go to war that he ended up starting wars by being too weak to stand up for American interests. Regardless of who actually is responsible for the chemical attacks, I feel the US should attempt to find them and bring them to justice. 

[Aerion Brightflame]

Whilst I'm as ever inclined to be skeptic about the amount of sheet that gets blamed on Russia, the existance of the book 'Foundation of Geopolitics: The geopolitical future of Russia' and the things it covers seems just too good to be true about it. The book, which was written by Alexander Dugin, whose a strange fellow advocating for the acceleration of the end in all out war, but it was co-authored by General Nikolai Klokotov a member of the General Staff Academy. It's also been citied many times as a fairly influencial text in russian politics.

 

The reason this is relevant is because of the sorts of things it tries to encourage, let's have a look at them:

 

• 'The United Kingdom should be cut off from Europe'
• 'Germany should be offered the de facto political dominance over most Protestant and Catholic states located within Central and Eastern Europe'
• France should be encouraged to form a "Franco-German bloc" with Germany.
• 'Russia should use its special services within the borders of the United States to fuel instability and separatism, for instance, provoke "Afro-American racists". Russia should "introduce geopolitical disorder into internal American activity, encouraging all kinds of separatism and ethnic, social and racial conflicts, actively supporting all dissident movements – extremist, racist, and sectarian groups, thus destabilizing internal political processes in the U.S. It would also make sense simultaneously to support isolationist tendencies in American politics'
• It talks about a need to annex Ukraine, to dismantle China and to have strong alliances in the middle-east with Islamic governments.

And in general the strategy it describes is: 'a sophisticated program of subversion, destabilization, and disinformation spearheaded by the Russian special services. The operations should be assisted by a tough, hard-headed utilization of Russia's gas, oil, and natural resources to bully and pressure other countries'

 

I know that coincidence is possible, but this seems a bit egrigious not to be at least partly on Russia influence. I'll believe happily that they also serve as a scapegoat now, same as Europe served as a scapegoat for the UK governments for decades and such. But to deny any attempts at Russian subterferge to me seems a little silly because it effectively is out of the book.

 

Well out of a summary of the book, I've not read the whole thing myself.