DEMOLISHED

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/39487917/marvel-boss-says-move-towards-more-diverse-characters-is-killing-sales

 

Basically what I've been saying all along. SJW diversity for diversity sake is obnoxious and won't sell.

 

The UN droped Wonder Woman as honorary ambassador because  she was "not culturally encompassing or sensitive" and was an inappropriate choice at a time "when the headline news in United States and the world is the objectification of women and girls."

 

I don't think people realize how asinine this looks

[Dad]

I'm inclined to agree.  Instead of making unique and original minority heroes, or using the ones they actually have, they're changing heroes we already know and love.

 

Give me more Blade and Storm, or Power Man and Luke Cage,  I'm black, but I don't need a black, female Iron Heart.  It's obnoxious.

[Delibirb]

No, that's not really the problem.

 

People want diversity. They don't want to lose the characters that are already established, that they already like, exactly as Dad said. It isn't that Marvel is pushing diversity, it's that they're not doing it very well.

 

Make new characters. Don't make all of them diverse. Make their diversity reasonable and interesting.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

No, that's not really the problem.

 

People want diversity. They don't want to lose the characters that are already established, that they already like, exactly as Dad said. It isn't that Marvel is pushing diversity, it's that they're not doing it very well.

 

Make new characters. Don't make all of them diverse. Make their diversity reasonable and interesting.

Yet randomly making Herminone black or Sulu gay to push an angeda is the direction HW wants to go in. The problem is the bifocal demonization of non-minority diversity picks and the subsequent shoe horning

 

Ie. Oscars so white

[Dad]

Yet randomly making Herminone black or Sulu gay to push an angeda is the direction HW wants to go in. The problem is the bifocal demonization of non-minority diversity picks and the subsequent shoe horning

 

Ie. Oscars so white

 

Personally I don't give a funk about the Oscars.  There's a reason we have BET (who ironically honors a whole lot more people from different cultures and colors) but that's besides the point.

 

Did you actually read anything I wrote?  

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Personally I don't give a funk about the Oscars.  There's a reason we have BET (who ironically honors a whole lot more people from different cultures and colors) but that's besides the point.

 

Did you actually read anything I wrote?

 

Yup, that's why I didn't quote you in my dissent to Kano's first claim. I largely agree.

[Delibirb]

Making Hermione Black or Sulu gay is exactly as I said: pushing diversity in the wrong way. Its changing existing characters rather than making new ones; how did you think id defend that when its literally what I said was the problem in my first post?

 

If Hermione was always black there'd be no problem, its that fact that she and so many others have been changed to be diverse that is hurting the reasonable request of more diversity.

[Snatch Steal]

I hate when people try to force diversity. I love seeing naturally diverse stories, but when you force it, like ghostbusters, it doesn't work.

 

We can't change race, and we can't change sexuality, so don't do it for white straight people. Give us new and interesting characters who interact well with their minority position.

 

For example, Tracer from Overwatch. Tracer being interested in girls never was her main selling point, and Blizzard makes no effort to force it upon people, yet at the same time it's so powerful that someone who is interested in the same sex can be such a well-designed character.

 

Basically, tokenism is bad and it sucks.

[Phantom Roxas]

"Diversity for diversity's sake" is not a bad thing in an of itself, but I would prefer if Marvel introduced newer characters, since it does seem that a lot of the diverse characters are being created at the expense of established characters, but the upcoming Generations crossover seems like they're trying to balance that out. DC is trying to maintain diversity during Rebirth, which isn't hurting sales for that. In this case, it seems like Dan Buckley is using a scapegoat.

 

As a few of the tweets in that article point out, it's not diversity, but rather, there are other factors. Most of Marvel's comics are priced at $3.99 while DC Rebirth aimed to hold the line at $2.99, so DC looks to be the cheaper option. Marvel has reached a point where they tend to have one to two major events every year, and following those events up with relaunches. Avengers vs X-Men, Age of Ultron, Infinity, Original Sin, AXIS, Secret Wars, Civil War II were all largely followed by relaunches, with Secret Wars being the most egregious example lately, and people are expecting another one after Secret Empire, which decided that making Captain America an agent of Hydra was somehow a good idea.

 

Marvel can't go a year with relaunching titles at a new #1, so why bother to get invested in books if you know from the outset that they may not last? Events also interrupt the books you do get invested in. Do you like a story that's been happening so far? Whoops, sorry, it has to tie in with the last event now, so better stop all the stuff that was interesting about this series and start paying attention to some other story.

 

If anything, this is the same problem that DC had when they first began the New 52. DC overhauled the continuity in the favor of having a "fresh start" that would attract new readers, but those new readers either never came around, were put off by the New 52, or drifted away after a time. During all of this, DC alienated its established fans, since they were basically told to give up on what they cared about, as the New 52 was replacing everything. That is how diverse characters have failed Marvel. Not because they're diverse, but because they exist primarily to attract new readers who don't care while also alienating fans of the established characters.

 

In cases like Ms. Marvel, Kamala is taking up a mantle that was left vacant anyway, as Carol Danvers became Ms. Marvel. That's an instance where I think diversity was handled very well. The worst example that comes to mind is in 2010, in the Spider-Man storyline "Grim Hunt", where Mattie Franklin (Spider-Woman) was sacrificed in a pointless ritual, Madame Webb died so Julia Carpenter (Who was also Spider-Woman) could become the new Madame Webb. Meanwhile, there is an ongoing series about Spider-Girl, which is set in an alternate universe, and focuses on Peter Parker and Mary Jane's daughter Mayday. Around the same as this Grim Hunt storyline, Spider-Girl is cancelled. Mattie, Madame Webb, Julia, and Mayday are all white women, so none of them were diverse characters. All of this happened so that, later in 2010, a Hispanic girl name Anya Corazon, who was previously known by the codename Araña, would have a new ongoing series called "Spider-Girl". Since Julia became the new Madame Webb, she passed down her Spider-Woman costume to Anya.

 

So four women were all shuffled around and sidelined all in favor of one girl. But hey, the four women that got shuffled around were all white, so no one's really going to mind, because hey, there's an important Hispanic girl now, right? Oh wait, her book got cancelled after eight issues, and despite her apparently getting multiple "bites at the apple", she never caught on, so by the time of the Spider-Verse event, Anya herself got replaced in favor of Silk, a new, new diverse character! Oh wait Silk's book is getting cancelled as well. Good riddance to her.

 

 

……Sorry, I think I lost track somewhere along the way. In any case, I think the bigger problem is that Marvel is publishing a lot of bad stories, and unfortunately, diverse characters are going to have those bad stories as part of their history. Marvel isn't going to want to admit that they wrote bad stories, or that annual relaunches (Which I believe have been referred to as a "seasonal format") have backfired, or that their products are more expensive than they need to be. Marvel wants their stories to be good, their relaunches to succeed, and to make money. All of those are broad goals, while diversity is more of a means to an end. Granted, I think that a lot of the writers genuinely care about adding diversity to their work, and I respect the writers. Dan Buckley, though? Yeah, he doesn't care about diversity. It's just a marketing ploy to someone like him. Why admit that you're failing the larger company when you get throw one of your marketing ploys under the bus?

[BLASTERZ]

people dont seem to realize that dc also does shill diversity sheet i.e. green arrow a social justice warrior and wonder woman mansplainin. however dc gets away with it because dc is actually g00d and doesnt try to appeal and be hip with the k00l tumblr kollege kidz

[Dad]

people dont seem to realize that dc also does shill diversity sheet i.e. green arrow a social justice warrior and wonder woman mansplainin. however dc gets away with it because dc is actually g00d and doesnt try to appeal and be hip with the k00l tumblr kollege kidz

 

Either construct your argument better in a way that it doesn't come off as dribbled bullshit, or don't post in debates.