Temporary Bans

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

So this is something I've believed in for a long time and I finally decided to go out and suggest it.

 

We've got several kinds of punishments. Verbal warns. Warning Points. Perma Bans.

But one I don't see used too often is my personal favorite. Temporary Bans. This is that thing where people are barred from the site for a couple days or more depending on the offense.

 

Use it. Put it in the rules so that people can know it's coming but use it. If someone is being unruly and problematic verbally warn them to stop and if they don't stop and (this part is important) if they keep up with the bad behavior soon after ban them for a couple days.

Keep track of these bans for each person. If someone who was temp banned comes back and goes back to being unruly then ban them for longer.

 

Make sure they know that if they keep up the behavior then they'll get longer bans until it reaches a point where they get perma banned.

 

We cannot let disruptive and problematic behavior keep going with just a slap on the wrist. Because really what's that do? They settle down for a day and are back to the behavior again. Why is that? Because the mod team won't ever really do anything about it.

 

Yeah this is coming from the guy who thinks the mods should be more transparent. Evidently people misunderstand me and think I believe them to be some kind of overlord.

 

That is laughable. The mods are pretty damn weak and that needs to stop. They need to buckle up and not worry about the problem people having an issue with being called problem people.

 

I know there will be those who say "Oh it's not THAT bad" but complacency is absolutely one of the reasons that there has been so many issues. It gets brushed aside because "Oh it blows over soon enough" but every incident just gives more fuel for the next incident.

It's sickening to see the forum in a state where it's common to see hateful things come up every day. I think implementing this idea of "We're actually going to start caring about breaking rules and being disruptive and hateful" would go a long way towards making this place somewhere that people don't have to feel they need to be defensive 24/7.

 

Arguments are one thing but there has been so many that clearly crossed the line. And it's going to keep going and increase in severity unless the mods do something to push back and show they actually are in control.

 

I'm not asking for total dictator iron fist monsters. I suggest being polite when issuing warnings about the temporary bans incoming but you guys have to stick to your guns and actually go through with them when people keep up the bad behavior. I see calls of "They didn't do anything THAT bad" but that's just ridiculous. We shouldn't be condoning constant, somewhat bad, behavior just because you only think that really bad things are worth punishment.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Oh trust me, I get them one weekers from time to time

 

Maybe you're suggesting I (or others, but mostly me) should get them MORE?

[Asriel Dreemurr]

I support this motion, and don't have much to add to the discussion beyond that.

Oh trust me, I get them one weekers from time to time

 

Maybe you're suggesting I (or others, but mostly me) should get them MORE?

I now have something meaningful to add to this discussion. Things like this shouldn't be happening. Someone gets a temporary ban or whatever and then comes back and does something else to warrant such a ban? Ban them for longer. But don't just keep cranking out steadily longer temp bans. Eventually make them scale up to permabans. Someone who commits multiple banable offenses should eventually just not be allowed on the site anymore.

[BANZAI!!!!]

Can't speak for the team as a whole, but personally I'm in support of this. I think we could benefit from being a bit more firm.

[Tormented]

I think writing down an official statement on when specific punishments are handed out or at least a general idea is a good thing to get done.

 

edit: I want to clarify that even though the rules do state that temp bans are given out, there really isn't anything that states when exactly they are given out and for what criteria that is for.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

I just love how a person decrying "witch hunts" is advocating more police power based on foggy rules that essentially boil down to a kangaroo court based on the mod team's current mood and deposition.

 

If we're gonna go to a more liberal and progressive usage of week bans, we might as well just have Citizenship courts where we all vote on whether to throw someone off the Island.

 

There's warning points, points expire. What is the objective criteria for when someone has gotten too many points? Just up to the mods?

 

 

Worked well for the French

[a bad post]

Oh trust me, I get them one weekers from time to time

 

Maybe you're suggesting I (or others, but mostly me) should get them MORE?

If you're not learning your lesson, then yes. CowCow's not suggesting anything. If people act up they'll be punished, and if they continue to do so they will be punished further.

[BANZAI!!!!]

I think writing down an official statement on when specific punishments are handed out or at least a general idea is a good thing to get done.

This is for sure coming in the site rules update. If it hasn't been updated in the draft already I've offered to edit it myself. So, yes will be a thing.

 

EDIT: This thread might also be a good place for users to discuss what they think a good "scale" for these types of punishments might be. I'm certainly open to input.

[(GigaDrillBreaker)]

Oh trust me, I get them one weekers from time to time

 

Maybe you're suggesting I (or others, but mostly me) should get them MORE?

Have they caused you to improve your behavior?

 

Also, One week shouldn't be the minimum. 2 days (48 hours) as a starting point is enough to prove a point, and scales up well.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Have they caused you to improve your behavior?

Also, One week shouldn't be the minimum. 2 days (48 hours) as a starting point is enough to prove a point, and scales up well.

Again, not a objective measure. It depends on the judge

[BANZAI!!!!]

Have they caused you to improve your behavior?

 

Also, One week shouldn't be the minimum. 2 days (48 hours) as a starting point is enough to prove a point, and scales up well.

I like 2 days as a starting point. Though perhaps an hour-long temp ban might be a useful tool?

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

If you get 10 WP it's a week ban. How it always works. If you want to keep somone perpetually banned just do what Roxas did. One pt on top of the 10 for minor minor things. Another week gone. The mod team already has indefinite detainment

[Dad]

Actually that's the purpose of punishment. To discourage you from doing something stupid or breaking the rules.

 

Over time,punishment must become more severe of behavior doesn't improve. So of you haven't changed your behavior, and you're still causing problems, it means you need harsher punishments. Also, you haven't been banned since i banned you a while back.

 

So this whole "woe is me" act needs to drop.

[Maeriberii Haan]

the issue is basically just have tangible, sensible, and reasonably progressing punishments.

 

take Winter's case for example. The punishments he got were all over the place, some harsher than necessary, some more lenient than it should, and in general, it all being combined turns into a complete goddamn mess that doesn't give any ideas of reasonability and rather than punishing, it just gives the vibe of bullying and generally just ineffective. 

 

if back then we were like, actually visibly progressing his punishments in a clearer manner, most of the later shitshow that caused by unfairness wouldn't happen tbh.

 

Hence this is why having such thing is important.

[BANZAI!!!!]

Couple of problems here. What's a measure of learning. Is the lesson something that should be learned?

In the eyes of the moderator(s) who gave out the punishment, yes, it should be learned. You want a measure? A very simple measure of its effectiveness is "did you improve your behavior or not?". If the answer is "no" the next offense gets a longer/more severe punishment. simple as that.

[(GigaDrillBreaker)]

Temp ban happens at x warning points.

 

Starts at 48 hours.

 

Each time it happens 48 hours are added on.

 

Every other month 48 hours are removed.

 

Boom.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Actually that's the purpose of punishment. To discourage you from doing something stupid or breaking the rules.

Over time,punishment must become more severe of behavior doesn't improve. So of you haven't changed your behavior, and you're still causing problems, it means you need harsher punishments. Also, you haven't been banned since i banned you a while back.

So this whole "woe is me" act needs to drop.

Don't believe I said I've been banned recently. Just highlighting both lessons and learning are highly subjective measures

Temp ban happens at x warning points.

Starts at 48 hours.

Each time it happens 48 hours are added on.

Every other month 48 hours are removed.

Boom.

Perfect

 

48 seems low though. Try 120 (5 days)

[BANZAI!!!!]

Temp ban happens at x warning points.

 

Starts at 48 hours.

 

Each time it happens 48 hours are added on.

 

Every other month 48 hours are removed.

 

Boom.

I'm not a fan of scaling punishments back with time. If you earn more days on your ban, you should stay at that higher number of days.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

In the eyes of the moderator(s) who gave out the punishment, yes, it should be learned. You want a measure? A very simple measure of its effectiveness is "did you improve your behavior or not?". If the answer is "no" the next offense gets a longer/more severe punishment. simple as that.

So if I get a ban from a mod overturned? Clearly that mods judgment isn't all that great is it now?

[BANZAI!!!!]

So if I get a ban from a mod overturned? Clearly that mods judgment isn't all that great is it now?

Or they disagree. But we'll hopefully be stopping that from occurring from now on. Team's been culled and i'm fairly certain those of us who remain have similar stances.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

I'm not a fan of scaling punishments back with time. If you earn more days on your ban, you should stay at that higher number of days.

X person has 10 pts. Y mod gives X 1 WP after the ban is served, back under ban, but longer? Nice!

[Phantom Roxas]

If you get 10 WP it's a week ban. How it always works. If you want to keep somone perpetually banned just do what Roxas did. One pt on top of the 10 for minor minor things. Another week gone. The mod team already has indefinite detainment

 

If you already had ten warning points to begin with, you might not have started in the best position.

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

Winter it's actually a really simple concept. If someone keeps up bad behavior it gets punished. Of course it can depend on what the mod thinks but the thing is that kind of thinking is why nothing ever gets done. It doesn't really work as an argument. It only works as a tool to slow the progress through flimsy "But what if"s type concerns.

 

The idea is either the person ceases being...whatever the issue is, overly aggressive, fire-starting, etc etc, or they get banned for a time. The ban shows them that "Yeah that behavior has consequences and will have worse ones if kept up".

 

Which puts the ball in their court. Either they shape up or ship out. They get to decide how to act. They get to choose if they will keep up the behavior that is considered disruptive/against the rules/etc or not.

 

It puts it all on the person being punished. This just lets the mods show them what won't be tolerated and gives them the option of how to proceed.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

If you already had ten warning points to begin with, you might not have started in the best position.

Depends, if you're giving them out 5 at a time for posting a picture of poop, maybe the problem isn't with me

[BANZAI!!!!]

Depends, if you're giving them out 5 at a time for posting a picture of poop, maybe the problem isn't with me

Whiiiich is something we won't be doing? Again, soon^tm We'll have a fully codified, shiny new set of rules that outlines what we'll be giving people punishment wise.