Sexism in the Yugioh Community

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

 

Somehow the last one got locked. 

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

*spreads disgusting views about how female participation is up to females and not males*

[Dad]

Last one was locked by owner's choice, not of my doing.  For clarity purposes.  Keep it civil, and we shouldn't have a problem.

[Kazooie]

*spreads disgusting views about how female participation is up to females and not males*

 

Nah, it isn't disgusting, it's just not the whole image.

 

Yeah, it's totally up to females if they want to participate, but it's certainly not made appealing by males in the sphere. It might be a vocal minority, but it's... A real issue, honestly. In all forms of competitive games.

 

I don't speak for Yugioh's scene, cause it isn't something I keep up with. I imagine that females who want to do it, CAN do it, but... That nasty vocal minority, if it is a minority, doesn't make it easy. Abuse and harassment is a legitimate issue for females who want to do this kinda stuff. There are a lot of those types of guys who will claim that females shouldn't be playing these games and give them sheet for it.

 

I see it a lot in Overwatch, personally. You get harassed just for having a high pitched voice, then you get called female as if it was a slur. They treat females as subpar... Creatures on Overwatch. And lord help you if a streamer runs into a girl player on his stream, Chat just gets outright creepy after that.

 

It's probably a lot worse in Overwatch admittedly, because the nature of the game as online gives the players a lot more anonymity, but it wouldn't surprise me to see this kind of abuse at a local level moreso than a higher one, and you have to start on the lower levels to get to the higher ones usually.

 

I dunno, it's 1 AM and I just started rambling, my thoughts are a little scattered. I certainly don't agree with Polaris that the issue doesn't exist (And if that wasn't what he was saying in the last thread, I completely misunderstood) but it is possible for females to get through. It's just... Not appealing, cause a lot of the time, they clearly aren't wanted.

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

Nah, it isn't disgusting, it's just not the whole image.

 

Yeah, it's totally up to females if they want to participate, but it's certainly not made appealing by males in the sphere. It might be a vocal minority, but it's... A real issue, honestly. In all forms of competitive games.

 

I don't speak for Yugioh's scene, cause it isn't something I keep up with. I imagine that females who want to do it, CAN do it, but... That nasty vocal minority, if it is a minority, doesn't make it easy. 

 

If females who'd otherwise participate/succeed don't because of unappealing males, then all else being equal, males who'd otherwise participate/succeed wouldn't because of unappealing females and the competition would be levelled. All else isn't equal, of course, and at this point we're just debating what that inequality stems from and why the discrepancies between male and female players exist. Some here argue it's because males are inherently more offputting/creepy/aggressive/unappealing/sexist than females - I don't think that's the reason. I think males tend towards competitive games more than females for physiological reasons, and that female interest in competitive gaming would be no more proportional if gaming communities were entirely segregated by sex - as they are in sports.

 

I encourage females to play games like Yugioh, to play with males if they want to and don't claim either sex to be superior or more appealing than the other. Denying physiological differences between males and females exist is willful ignorance. You can call my argumentation sexist if that's what you believe, but I consider it no more sexist than arguments in the vein of "the reason girls don't play x is because boys are gross." 

 

I dunno, it's 1 AM and I just started rambling, my thoughts are a little scattered. I certainly don't agree with Polaris that the issue doesn't exist (And if that wasn't what he was saying in the last thread, I completely misunderstood)

 

https://forum.yugiohcardmaker.net/topic/361970-sexism-in-the-yugioh-community/?p=6990537

 

[vla1ne]

Nah, it isn't disgusting, it's just not the whole image.

 

Yeah, it's totally up to females if they want to participate, but it's certainly not made appealing by males in the sphere. It might be a vocal minority, but it's... A real issue, honestly. In all forms of competitive games.

 

I don't speak for Yugioh's scene, cause it isn't something I keep up with. I imagine that females who want to do it, CAN do it, but... That nasty vocal minority, if it is a minority, doesn't make it easy. Abuse and harassment is a legitimate issue for females who want to do this kinda stuff. There are a lot of those types of guys who will claim that females shouldn't be playing these games and give them s*** for it.

 

I see it a lot in Overwatch, personally. You get harassed just for having a high pitched voice, then you get called female as if it was a slur. They treat females as subpar... Creatures on Overwatch. And lord help you if a streamer runs into a girl player on his stream, Chat just gets outright creepy after that.

 

It's probably a lot worse in Overwatch admittedly, because the nature of the game as online gives the players a lot more anonymity, but it wouldn't surprise me to see this kind of abuse at a local level moreso than a higher one, and you have to start on the lower levels to get to the higher ones usually.

 

I dunno, it's 1 AM and I just started rambling, my thoughts are a little scattered. I certainly don't agree with Polaris that the issue doesn't exist (And if that wasn't what he was saying in the last thread, I completely misunderstood) but it is possible for females to get through. It's just... Not appealing, cause a lot of the time, they clearly aren't wanted.

 

in the non-competitive scene, it's a nonissue, for reasons explained in the last thread, in the competitive scene, it's still a nonissue. anything that can get you arrested normally still applies, and there's plenty more still that can get you kicked out of an event. along these, stalking is one of them. the risk for other things, is no greater than at an other event.

 

that nasty minority exists for everybody in the scene in some form or another. there's always somebody that you will not like, and if they fit the bill for getting kicked out, then just have them kicked out. anything less, and there's generally a wall of white knights waiting in the wings to protect any woman who may need as much. which isn't even an insult to them, it's simply a fact. countless more dudes will come to a woman's defense over a discomfort at a tournament, than will come to the aid of a guy who just got robbed at the same tourney. lack of comfort might be discouraging, but that's not something that needs to be fixed, there already exist far more assistance avenues in the scene for females than males.

 

 

the internet is the cesspool of the world, it's the chalkboard with which people release profanity and other manner of disruptive and rude thoughts. a vent for human negativity. i don't play or watch overwatch, but from what i've seen, overwatch has multiple females revered by players in game, (tracer, the russian chick, black widow, the angel, the gundam pilot, ect.) it's less a problem of men hating women, or pushing them out, than it is trolls being trolls in typical troll fashion. the fact that trolls exist, does not exactly mean the scene itself is hazardous to women. trolls go after the weakest link, and with all the "sexism" buzz, there's no doubt as to what would get the biggest response were i to decide trolling was m new occupation.

 

 

polaris never said the issue does not exist. that is what one of those arguing with him stated, in incorrect fashion. his statement was more long the lines that the women in yugioh have to overcome the wall on their own, instead of asking for men to do it for them. (not meaning that they can't ask for aid, but that they should not expect the problem to be solved entirely by others). for reference: "C) The rules of the game are equal for everyone. Lack of female initiative and success is inevitably on those females who haven't tried and haven't succeeded. Those who are playing can keep up the good fight, and if they are as good or better than their male opponents they have every opportunity to prove it that their male counterparts do," he's not saing sexism doesn't exist, but that it in no way changes the rules or the objectives of the game.

 

 

[spoiler=now for a minor rant]

put another way though, if that's all it takes to discourage you from the game, then you didn't want to play the game all that much. she's arguing pennies on the dollar for what i went through, and what shaped me relating to yugioh. i went through over 15 years of worse, from the very start of the game, till now. fighting thieves, getting laughed at in class and at work, when me and my friends discussed the newest structure decks, turning my back to find all my cards were missing in school and at the shops that i played at over the years, rebuilding everything from nothing, being insulted by everybody else outside of the circle for my love of the game, and taunted by a******s in the shop for running "fun decks" and not having staples, getting ripped off hard before i knew what a price check was. i am one of the original players of the game, and i still remember m first non starter deck super rare pull, a drop-off that i got from a pack my brother bought me. i went through almost 15 years of bullshit to play this game, and i took it all head-on, and i am still here today, and proud to be playing this game. i do not support harassment, but if a few months of nonviolent harassment, is all it takes to make you quit this game, then that is your choice, and you are free to live with it.

 

i played this game through years of my life, when it was ridiculed in school, and i had to fight every other week at elementary and middle school, and even in high school, when i'd leaned better ways to resolve issues, i still had to deal with theft and ridicule, it wasn't until college, that the bullshit slowed and eventually stopped. she's arguing drops in a puddle to the oceans that many people have went through to play this game. i, and many people i grew up with, had to fight bigger niggas than ourselves, getting jumped and all, for the sake of this game. i shed blood, i lost hundreds, if not thousands, to robbery of my cards, i worked hours and overtime to afford new packs and pay bills, i played this game alone, and with friends, on the bus and in cafeterias. what she is asking for, is for a free pass, not realizing how little a pass costs now. harassment? she has every man at any tournament at her back, women want to top? all she has to do is build a deck and compete her way to the top, respect online? that ain't happening, trolls don't listen to anybody. creeps at the shop? get em kicked by a judge, sexist mats? f*** off, it's their choice. uncomfortable? try getting jumped over a fight you had a year prior, because some n***a ripped your BLS right in from of you. yes, she deserves help with her problems, but at this point, she doesn't realize just how much help she already has, and how far the game has come, it's not that we wouldn't help her, it's that instead of accepting the reasonable, and fighting, or ignoring the unreasonable, she wants to change everything, by making everybody else move. that's not how it works.

 

(don't mean her specifically, though i do believe it applies to an extent to her as well, but in comparison to the original players, and those who played in neighborhoods like the one i grew up in, female players who merely had to deal with a month or two of foul words and uncomfortable looks, have not been though anything, )

 

 

[Kazooie]

If females who'd otherwise participate/succeed don't because of unappealing males, then all else being equal, males who'd otherwise participate/succeed wouldn't because of unappealing females and the competition would be levelled. All else isn't equal, of course, and at this point we're just debating what that inequality stems from and why the discrepancies between male and female players exist. Some here argue it's because males are inherently more offputting/creepy/aggressive/unappealing/sexist than females - I don't think that's the reason. I think males tend towards competitive games more than females for physiological reasons, and that female interest in competitive gaming would be no more proportional if gaming communities were entirely segregated by sex - as they are in sports.

 

You can call my argumentation sexist if you want, but I encourage females to play games like Yugioh, to play with males if they want to and don't claim either sex to be superior or more appealing than the other.

 

 

https://forum.yugiohcardmaker.net/topic/361970-sexism-in-the-yugioh-community/?p=6990537

 

 

Nah, you're right about that. If all was equal, that would totally be the case. I'm not denying that there's a lower population of females who are interested in the competitive scene!

 

My thing is the ones who are interested are heavily discouraged just by the way the current scene looks at them. What we're arguing are two different things, you're arguing the general balance not changing much while I'm arguing that it's just unwelcoming to them in general.

 

Yeah, if there was a higher population of females interested, this wouldn't be nearly as big an issue overall. Part of the issues I argue stems from what you were arguing. The fact that a significantly lower population of females WANT to pursue these things make it harder for the ones who want to be in there to get accepted as easily. So the males already in it kinda see it as their own thing and it just slides out of control from there. It makes it an unwelcome landscape, it deters the small portion of the female population interested in the competitive environment away from it.

 

So yeah, I kinda only skimmed the last thread because I normally don't come in this section. I didn't see what you were arguing in full, in which case, you certainly aren't wrong, we're just arguing different things and it took me until now to see that. I should really read the prior threads for stuff like this more in full instead of skimming. My views are really just a mixture of your's and what the others were arguing. That's my bad. -v-''