THE SUBMISSION BOX [Moderator Transparency Discussion Thread]

[Dad]

Alright no I can't just let this fly.

 

Thrown under the bus? Are you kidding me?

Opinions were wanted and in some cases asked for.

One of the reasons given for why Zai was chosen was that he didn't get any people saying that they thought he shouldn't.

You can NOT say the above and later say "thrown under the bus". (I know you didn't specifically say the above but it was said by a few and it was publicly said)

 

Hell I only didn't tell him I said anything until after because I didn't at the moment want to say something that might hurt his feelings. And because I didn't want to ruin his motivation for the position (because if he got the position and had that in his head it might not go so well) so I left it to the mod's discretion what to do with the information.

 

Giving opinions why one thinks someone is a bad choice for a position of power is not a dirty campaign. It just makes sense. What would you have people do? Publicly shame him about it instead of PMing a mod? Telling him and maybe hurting his feelings (which if you are right about his response is exactly how that would have gone down since you say he felt inadequate upon hearing such things)? No, the only recourse is to PM the mods, the people who are supposed to be able to be talked to about this exact kind of concern, and let them decide based on the information they are given.

As Black already said the reasoning for his bowing out was not to do with the "dirty campaign."

 

I am not going to just have me, and a close friend, get literally slandered because of misinformation. Especially when it involves one of the people both I and said friend care about the most on the site.

 

Except before we were asked for opinions on Yui, he was already being declared "unfit".  I actually had no clue it had anything to do with you, until now.  But Yui's over it, the rest of us are over it, and for the most part, minus any trivial involvement you had, it's been settled.  No one's being slandered.  I was relaying information by request.  I've already given my part and they coincide with the rest of the team's as far as I'm aware.

 

I'm just gonna say here and now that Yui should be RP mod and Zai should be moved to general.

 

Then we can get some rules done in there, yea?

 

Weren't you vehemently against Zai being a mod at all, and then especially in General?  Why the change?  His activity in General is even less than Yui's.

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

Except before we were asked for opinions on Yui, he was already being declared "unfit".  I actually had no clue it had anything to do with you, until now.  But Yui's over it, the rest of us are over it, and for the most part, minus any trivial involvement you had, it's been settled.  No one's being slandered.  I was relaying information by request.  I've already given my part and they coincide with the rest of the team's as far as I'm aware.

The entire thread was there for opinions was it not? I am fairly sure it was asking for the members thoughts on who should be PR mod. When was it that you specifically asked then? Cause I don't recall any specific "What do you think of *insert list of candidates here*" I could be wrong but I honestly don't think I am.

And I can't really accept the line that "the rest of us are over it" when the situation is, unfairly, being called dirty and thrown under the bus.

Your information is not fully factual and giving false, negative (cause if dirty and throwing people under the bus isn't negative I don't know what is), information is in fact slander.

[Dad]

The entire thread was there for opinions was it not? I am fairly sure it was asking for the members thoughts on who should be PR mod. When was it that you specifically asked then? Cause I don't recall any specific "What do you think of *insert list of candidates here*" I could be wrong but I honestly don't think I am.

And I can't really accept the line that "the rest of us are over it" when the situation is, unfairly, being called dirty and thrown under the bus.

Your information is not fully factual and giving false, negative (cause if dirty and throwing people under the bus isn't negative I don't know what is), information is in fact slander.

 

Aight then let's get it straight.

 

At the beginning of the thread, we asked for names.  Who, and why or why not.  Idk what part of that you're not understanding, but go back and read it.  That's when the team asked for it.  It's general, but it's not like it needed to be decoded.  Not complicated.  And I said the rest of us are over it, because Yui gave his sentiments, solidifying that it was indeed "not dirty".  Or did you just come in here, ignore the posts, and read what you want to read?  Pay attention.

 

Yui is already arguing your point.  And I have conceded to that.  Is that understandable for you?  Do I need to break it down further?  Is there any more misgivings you have with this "campaign"?  

[(GigaDrillBreaker)]

Weren't you vehemently against Zai being a mod at all, and then especially in General?  Why the change?  His activity in General is even less than Yui's.

I am, honestly, and general isn't PR.

 

And as has been said, it doesn't take much for general, right?

 

Not to mention that I am exceedingly disappointed with Zai's performance in RP, but that's between him and I.

 

Don't try to make me look like a hypocrite, please. I was just offering an idea for where I think Yui could do the most good. I said it months ago, and it was the same conversation with him that led him to voluntarily drop out, rather than whatever story you are telling.

[Dad]

I am, honestly, and general isn't PR.

 

And as has been said, it doesn't take much for general, right?

 

Not to mention that I am exceedingly disappointed with Zai's performance in RP, but that's between him and I.

 

Don't try to make me look like a hypocrite, please. I was just offering an idea for where I think Yui could do the most good. I said it months ago, and it was the same conversation with him that led him to voluntarily drop out, rather than whatever story you are telling.

 

That wasn't my intent.  I genuinely wanted to know why you changed your mind.  I think this statement from you is a reasonable answer.  I didn't know you had any nitpicking with Zai in RP.  

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

Aight then let's get it straight.

 

At the beginning of the thread, we asked for names.  Who, and why or why not.  Idk what part of that you're not understanding, but go back and read it.  That's when the team asked for it.  It's general, but it's not like it needed to be decoded.  Not complicated.  And I said the rest of us are over it, because Yui gave his sentiments, solidifying that it was indeed "not dirty".  Or did you just come in here, ignore the posts, and read what you want to read?  Pay attention.

 

Yui is already arguing your point.  And I have conceded to that.  Is that understandable for you?  Do I need to break it down further?  Is there any more misgivings you have with this "campaign"?  

Um first of all where is the thread anyway? I forgot what section.

Second of all...

"Who, and why or why not"

"or why not"

Now I am just confused. You literally said that the opinions were given before opinions were asked for but then said that the thread was to get said opinions.

 

And honestly I did read that but the fact of the matter is that you believed it to be dirty and were making claims that were just not true. Sure, Yui didn't believe it to be dirty but you apparently did. And Yui's opinion does not affect what you said. As what you said were making claims that you said were facts.

You prefaced it with "Let me clear some things up" meaning you were intending to give clear factual information.

That you followed it with untrue things is the issue.

I don't understand the problem though. Yes Yui said he didn't think it was dirty but I wasn't talking about if Yui specifically thought it was dirty.

I was purely speaking on the official statement you gave as to the facts of what went down.

You did not concede to what Yui said. In fact after Yui said that you said that "I was relaying information by request.  I've already given my part and they coincide with the rest of the team's as far as I'm aware."

The information you were relaying was that it was considered a dirty campaign and back stab. Which is what I was arguing against.

If one person says they don't personally feel it was something doesn't mean that others don't feel that. And I certainly don't like having this dark cloud of "He used dirty tactics to try and keep a friend from modship" over my or another friend's head.

 

Also what the hell man you're straight up mocking me here and that's just not right.

 

Oh and why is "campaign" in quotations you're the one who used the word....

[Yui]

stuff

more stuff

Please y'all don't get worked up over this. It happened months ago so that won't help anyone involved, plus it'll distract us from the matter of should I be a mod now rather than then. Even if I hadn't been put out of the running for PR mod, I likely still would have gotten shaken up by the idea a bit at the last second. The main difference this time was some talking with evilfusion a short while before the actual promotion happened; turned out he felt the same way I did when first offered modhood, so my logic this time was "It's okay if I'm a lil' nervous about the job; so was evilfusion and now he practically runs the place with so much confidence". So yeah. Bringing up the concerns to mods during the election wasn't dirty, any slander going on was a result of miscommunication, so on and so forth.

 

Anyway. On to the present issue.

 

I'm just gonna say here and now that Yui should be RP mod and Zai should be moved to general.

 

Then we can get some rules done in there, yea?

Now this I can get behind. If Zai isn't opposed to the switch, I could talk it out with him and other mods as necessary. I can confirm that RP would definitely be the section I'd best be able to moderate due to it being literally the entire reason I stick around on YCM, but let's get a feel for me actually having some sense of power before figuring out if we want to switch me and Zai around or not. Just swapping Dad out for someone who's never in General in the first place is gonna shake things up a bit, so I'd like to keep the shaking to a minimum if I can help it.

[Dad]

Please y'all don't get worked up over this. It happened months ago so that won't help anyone involved, plus it'll distract us from the matter of should I be a mod now rather than then. Even if I hadn't been put out of the running for PR mod, I likely still would have gotten shaken up by the idea a bit at the last second. The main difference this time was some talking with evilfusion a short while before the actual promotion happened; turned out he felt the same way I did when first offered modhood, so my logic this time was "It's okay if I'm a lil' nervous about the job; so was evilfusion and now he practically runs the place with so much confidence". So yeah. Bringing up the concerns to mods during the election wasn't dirty, any slander going on was a result of miscommunication, so on and so forth.

 

Anyway. On to the present issue.

 

Now this I can get behind. If Zai isn't opposed to the switch, I could talk it out with him and other mods as necessary. I can confirm that RP would definitely be the section I'd best be able to moderate due to it being literally the entire reason I stick around on YCM, but let's get a feel for me actually having some sense of power before figuring out if we want to switch me and Zai around or not. Just swapping Dad out for someone who's never in General in the first place is gonna shake things up a bit, so I'd like to keep the shaking to a minimum if I can help it.

 

My only comment on this is that you actually have to make it through your trial period first.  I don't think you should be given a full position in either General or RP until the trial period is over, like with every mod.  That's less concerning however, since I have faith in you.

 

 

Um first of all where is the thread anyway? I forgot what section.

Second of all...

"Who, and why or why not"

"or why not"

Now I am just confused. You literally said that the opinions were given before opinions were asked for but then said that the thread was to get said opinions.

 

Before Yui's name was public, there was a consensus against him.  That's what I'm talking about.  After his name came out, he was made aware, and bowed out.

 

 

I was purely speaking on the official statement you gave as to the facts of what went down.

You did not concede to what Yui said. In fact after Yui said that you said that "I was relaying information by request.  I've already given my part and they coincide with the rest of the team's as far as I'm aware."

The information you were relaying was that it was considered a dirty campaign and back stab. Which is what I was arguing against.

 

Oh.  I didn't issue another statement that specifically and clearly alluded to my personal opinion on the question at hand.  Very well  "I, Eros Thanatos, concede that after further information and evidence has been brought to light regarding said 'dirty campaign' against Yui's previous attempts at election for PR moderator, are accurate.  Further more, I retract previous statements, given that the subject, Yui, finds the campaign to be reasonable and fair.  I concur with his statements, and will refrain from describing these previous activities as a 'dirty campaign'."

 

 

Also what the hell man you're straight up mocking me here and that's just not right.

 

LOL

 

Oh and why is "campaign" in quotations you're the one who used the word....

 

It's how it was described to me some time ago.  A "dirty campaign".  It was less of a campaign and more of a whisper fest.  But I've already agreed that it's water under the bridge, so I digress. 

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

Before Yui's name was public, there was a consensus against him.  That's what I'm talking about.  After his name came out, he was made aware, and bowed out.

 

 

 

Oh.  I didn't issue another statement that specifically and clearly alluded to my personal opinion on the question at hand.  Very well  "I, Eros Thanatos, concede that after further information and evidence has been brought to light regarding said 'dirty campaign' against Yui's previous attempts at election for PR moderator, are accurate.  Further more, I retract previous statements, given that the subject, Yui, finds the campaign to be reasonable and fair.  I concur with his statements, and will refrain from describing these previous activities as a 'dirty campaign'."

Um, but...wait. The names were public when they were stated in the thread. That was the moment when some said anything about it. How could anyone say opinions on a candidate that wasn't mentioned?

Reminder that one of the mistakes was that Zai was in part chosen due to people not being against it. But that people didn't say anything because they didn't realize he was an option.

The only time that Yui could have gotten a consensus against him was when he was seen as a choice.

 

(On another note it's kind of an amusing thought that it was stated in that thread that some names were considered and decided against before the thread was up. So I really am unsure what this time of when it's okay to give opinions or not starts.)

 

And...yeah that'd been nice if not for the seeming sarcasm. Like, I can't be sure if you're serious here but how in the world am I to not believe that you, and others, still think that if you don't actually say you don't? That just feels like common sense.

 

LOL

This seems unnecessary. Almost like an attempt to egg me on. I can't tell if it's "LOL oops" "LOL you're an idiot" or what but it's quite the odd choice of response (especially as you went out of your way to quote that specifically to respond to it with simply "LOL" ) given the type of thread this is.

[Dad]

Um, but...wait. The names were public when they were stated in the thread. That was the moment when some said anything about it. How could anyone say opinions on a candidate that wasn't mentioned?

Reminder that one of the mistakes was that Zai was in part chosen due to people not being against it. But that people didn't say anything because they didn't realize he was an option.

The only time that Yui could have gotten a consensus against him was when he was seen as a choice.

 

And...yeah that'd been nice if not for the seeming sarcasm. Like, I can't be sure if you're serious here but how in the world am I to not believe that you, and others, still think that if you don't actually say you don't? That just feels like common sense.

 

This seems unnecessary. Almost like an attempt to egg me on. I can't tell if it's "LOL oops" "LOL you're an idiot" or what but it's quite the odd choice of response (especially as you went out of your way to quote that specifically to respond to it with simply "LOL" ) given the type of thread this is.

 

Because right now, I'm the only one besides Yui himself, who is actually fighting for it.  These are my last moments, and I can't even depart without being made out to be incompetent or a failure.  And no Ryan.  It wasn't sarcasm.  It was me being complacent.  Trying--and trying very hard--to comply.  Because even as I prepare to leave, I still work for you.  

 

Yui's name wasn't the only one that was being whispered before being made public, so yeah it was pretty easy for people to gather their own opinions on him as a PR Moderator before his name was public.  Once more, I'm not gonna name drop.  

 

As far as the last bit, I read your quote as the mocking Spongebob meme.  So I laughed pretty hard.

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

Because right now, I'm the only one besides Yui himself, who is actually fighting for it.  These are my last moments, and I can't even depart without being made out to be incompetent or a failure.  And no Ryan.  It wasn't sarcasm.  It was me being complacent.  Trying--and trying very hard--to comply.  Because even as I prepare to leave, I still work for you.  

 

Yui's name wasn't the only one that was being whispered before being made public, so yeah it was pretty easy for people to gather their own opinions on him as a PR Moderator before his name was public.  Once more, I'm not gonna name drop.  

 

As far as the last bit, I read your quote as the mocking Spongebob meme.  So I laughed pretty hard.

I don't intend to make you out as a fail...wait hold up man.

STOP THAT

RIGHT THIS INSTANT

LISTEN HERE YOU PARENTAL FIGURE

ALMOST EVERYONE AGREES THAT YOU WERE A GOOD MOD GODDAMMIT YOU STOP BEATING YOURSELF UP RIGHT THIS INSTANT.

 

There were fuckups obviously but you did more good than bad.

 

Anyway

 

This one instance it was directly something that I felt was going overboard about something that could easily be turned against some people. (Even now that it was taken back I am sure there are some who still have thoughts that me and/or parenthesis are trying to do some kind of coup sheet) I mostly couldn't let it just settle because I knew that it could easily be used against us if not clarified. It was essentially being called a dirty backstabber and whoa.

 

idk what to tell you I guess I'm mostly confused because as far as I know the only ones who actually PMed about concerns did so after he was put up as an option.

[Dad]

I don't intend to make you out as a fail...wait hold up man.

STOP THAT

RIGHT THIS INSTANT

LISTEN HERE YOU PARENTAL FIGURE

ALMOST EVERYONE AGREES THAT YOU WERE A GOOD MOD GODDAMMIT YOU STOP BEATING YOURSELF UP RIGHT THIS INSTANT.

 

There were fuckups obviously but you did more good than bad.

 

Anyway

 

This one instance it was directly something that I felt was going overboard about something that could easily be turned against some people. (Even now that it was taken back I am sure there are some who still have thoughts that me and/or parenthesis are trying to do some kind of coup sheet) I mostly couldn't let it just settle because I knew that it could easily be used against us if not clarified. It was essentially being called a dirty backstabber and whoa.

 

idk what to tell you I guess I'm mostly confused because as far as I know the only ones who actually PMed about concerns did so after he was put up as an option.

 

Don't do that.  Because--actually never mind.  Just--I'm sorry.

 

I was wrong.  I made a mistake.  I funked up.  And you won't have to worry about me funking up again.  If you have any more questions, I think Yui is more suited to answer them.  He has more knowledge than I do.

[Blake]

Can I request that the phrase "you'd be unhappy anyway" stop being used? It does nothing but give the impression of the team not giving a damn because the site is bad and will be ad. If you're not willing todothe best possible and avoid as much flak, why do it at all?

 

I'm not pointing fingers, but it's really annoying for that to be used as an argument when it's such a poor one.

 

Also, my initial post asked for information. There was nothing antagonistic about it, it was simply "pls explain", and you neglected to do so until I gave you a ton of points that could have been touched on before I rattled them off the top of my head.

 

I'll actually read stuff later, because I definitely disagree with a point I skimmed.

 

This isn't about incompetence or failure. This is about what was presented and who's here and

Now, when no one else is.

[(GigaDrillBreaker)]

Agreed on the "people will always be mad" bit.

 

There are a lot of things the mod team can do that won't make people mad, and from what I have seen, that is just used to invalidate concerns (a common issue with the staff recently). When people complain, they aren't doing it just to complain. They aren't just trying to stir up trouble, or seize control. They have their concerns because they care, and write-offs like "people will be mad no matter what we do" say that the staff doesn't.

[BANZAI!!!!]

Did we really forget to announce that Dad was getting a replacement?

 

...oops. I feel like we might have talked about doing that. I think we should have.

 

Anyway, a few things. Keeping it briefish for now because I'm just waking up and i'm a little hungover.

 

1. I get that you guys have some concerns about Yui getting promoted and/or how it was done, but like... Can we just hold the phone for awhile? If he's not fit to be a mod (which for the record, this duck thinks he's more than capable) then that will show and he'll either improve or be demoted. Promoting him in and of itself causes basically nothing. Its not the title, but what someone does with it. Can we maybe have this discussion in like, a week or two when he's settled in, at least?

 

2. Lets just cut the crap about the whole PR election. It was handled kinda poorly by the team, and the userbase did a myriad of different things which could either be considered acceptable or shitty, depending on who you ask. its largely irrelevant right now and getting worked up over what was done or how people are interpreting what was done will do nothing for the conversation at hand. For the record I don't feel that anything that happened during that election was dirty. Shitty things to do, perhaps, but everyone does shitty things sometimes and the intent behind it all was a positive one.... and im rambling. Tl;dr lets drop that subject for the time being please.

 

[spoiler=3 More of a personal rant that may or may not be pertinent to the discussion]More of an opinion thing, so don't take it in the context of Yui's promotion specifically or as an opinion of the mod team. This is just a nitpick of my own as a user, not a staff member.

 

Honestly, I think its kinda shitty that the mod team can't really make any important decisions without members coming out of the woodwork and expressing "concern for the site's health" (the quotes are not there for sarcasm. I'm just quoting the proverbial member base as a whole). Don't get me wrong, i'm glad that people are telling the staff what they think, but its always before any decision the team makes has an actual chance to affect the community, negatively or positively. After the dust settles, its rare to see anyone bring up actual legitimate converns about what the staff does, which tells me that users are either not invested enough to keep an eye on things after the fact (or that they're complacent in general), the vast majority of the decisions the staff makes are sound, or that the people who expressed those opinions maybe did so with some sort of ulterior motivation. I would much, much rather see people bringing up actual problems that are occuring on the site or with staff (like how slow I was at getting this very thread up, or the wait for RP's new rule draft, or Tormey's big ol' list of technical problems which needed to be fixed, to give recent examples), than seeing a discussion like this arise every time the staff does basically anything major. Having seen the decision-making process from the inside, and having been a part of it, its pretty apparant to me that every move made is a calculated one. The mods deliberate over evey choice they make. Maybe trust them a little and wait to call bullshit until bullshit actually appears?

 

[Fusion X. Denver]

Two things:

 

1. Congrats Yui! I think you'll do a great job and wish you luck!

 

2. On one hand, I agree with Black and ( ) that "members will always be unhappy" shouldn't dismiss and overlook the issue. On the other, I understand why the mods would feel that way observing the spats between them and the community over the past few years. 

 

I don't think this should have to be the case. I have a proposal for Zai (since he's PR) and the mod team:

Whether in this thread or a separate one, we should have an official discourse with as much of the community as we can get involved where the mods outline exactly what YOU want from us and the members outline what WE want from you. The main point of this conversation would be to give everyone context so we're all on the same level of understanding on where everyone stands. 

 

And I know it's possible for results or changes in mind to occur from that because of the Winter Ban thread. Even if members didn't like or agreed with the mods' decision, you cannot deny that the team listened to and addressed each and every concern that was brought up. Almost all of the mods involved themselves in that thread and it lasted a whole week, that's never happened in my time here since 2009 (that I'm aware of), plus the posts were a bunch of mini-essays on top of that. You may not have necessarily liked their replies, but they definitely took their time to address you. Everyone's voice was heard, and look how it turned out: the ban was changed to six months. I think that was the best compromise because it both addressed the problem with Winter and it assured members that he would be given another chance to return.

 

Mods are not the bad guys and neither are we. We don't need to get into another crazy week-long thread (or maybe we do if that's what it takes), but we should lay everything out on the table and voice how each of would like to help improve member-mod relations. I believe it's possible for them and us to get along.

[Yui]

Two things:

 

1. Congrats Yui! I think you'll do a great job and wish you luck!

Thank you :)

 

2. On one hand, I agree with Black and ( ) that "members will always be unhappy" shouldn't dismiss and overlook the issue. On the other, I understand why the mods would feel that way observing the spats between them and the community over the past few years. 

 

I don't think this should have to be the case. I have a proposal for Zai (since he's PR) and the mod team:

Whether in this thread or a separate one, we should have an official discourse with as much of the community as we can get involved where the mods outline exactly what YOU want from us and the members outline what WE want from you. The main point of this conversation would be to give everyone context so we're all on the same level of understanding on where everyone stands. 

 

And I know it's possible for results or changes in mind to occur from that because of the Winter Ban thread. Even if members didn't like or agreed with the mods' decision, you cannot deny that the team listened to and addressed each and every concern that was brought up. Almost all of the mods involved themselves in that thread and it lasted a whole week, that's never happened in my time here since 2009 (that I'm aware of), plus the posts were a bunch of mini-essays on top of that. You may not have necessarily liked their replies, but they definitely took their time to address you. Everyone's voice was heard, and look how it turned out: the ban was changed to six months. I think that was the best compromise because it both addressed the problem with Winter and it assured members that he would be given another chance to return.

 

Mods are not the bad guys and neither are we. We don't need to get into another crazy week-long thread (or maybe we do if that's what it takes), but we should lay everything out on the table and voice how each of would like to help improve member-mod relations. I believe it's possible for them and us to get along.

I'm surprised nobody seemed to have thought of this already now that the idea's out there. Having mods and members sit down with one another and discuss this sort of thing would be great, especially in light of all the reactions to recent mod team decisions. I'll even make the thread if Zai or any other mod doesn't, assuming there aren't any objections from within the team or a wave of disapproval from outside it, but come on who could object to such a great idea? Full support here.

[Dad]

Two things:

 

1. Congrats Yui! I think you'll do a great job and wish you luck!

 

2. On one hand, I agree with Black and ( ) that "members will always be unhappy" shouldn't dismiss and overlook the issue. On the other, I understand why the mods would feel that way observing the spats between them and the community over the past few years. 

 

I don't think this should have to be the case. I have a proposal for Zai (since he's PR) and the mod team:

Whether in this thread or a separate one, we should have an official discourse with as much of the community as we can get involved where the mods outline exactly what YOU want from us and the members outline what WE want from you. The main point of this conversation would be to give everyone context so we're all on the same level of understanding on where everyone stands. 

 

And I know it's possible for results or changes in mind to occur from that because of the Winter Ban thread. Even if members didn't like or agreed with the mods' decision, you cannot deny that the team listened to and addressed each and every concern that was brought up. Almost all of the mods involved themselves in that thread and it lasted a whole week, that's never happened in my time here since 2009 (that I'm aware of), plus the posts were a bunch of mini-essays on top of that. You may not have necessarily liked their replies, but they definitely took their time to address you. Everyone's voice was heard, and look how it turned out: the ban was changed to six months. I think that was the best compromise because it both addressed the problem with Winter and it assured members that he would be given another chance to return.

 

Mods are not the bad guys and neither are we. We don't need to get into another crazy week-long thread (or maybe we do if that's what it takes), but we should lay everything out on the table and voice how each of would like to help improve member-mod relations. I believe it's possible for them and us to get along.

 

Thank you :)

 

I'm surprised nobody seemed to have thought of this already now that the idea's out there. Having mods and members sit down with one another and discuss this sort of thing would be great, especially in light of all the reactions to recent mod team decisions. I'll even make the thread if Zai or any other mod doesn't, assuming there aren't any objections from within the team or a wave of disapproval from outside it, but come on who could object to such a great idea? Full support here.

 

It's not a new idea.  It's the purpose of this thread.  To discuss current events dealing with the moderators and what the members want.  It hasn't been successful, not yet.

 

 

Can I request that the phrase "you'd be unhappy anyway" stop being used? It does nothing but give the impression of the team not giving a damn because the site is bad and will be ad. If you're not willing todothe best possible and avoid as much flak, why do it at all?

 

I'm not pointing fingers, but it's really annoying for that to be used as an argument when it's such a poor one.

 

It's exactly what happened.  This is exactly what was said behind closed doors.  I ain't dismissing a thing.  I'm telling you what was said, word for word.  

[Blake]

I just want to ask: what part of this seems angry or calling BS?

 

I wanted an explanation and politely requested it. It's frustrating to have regurgitated info instead of explanations, which came after my hypothetical list (which I still need to read the replies to, but work ATM), but I'm not angry. It's not like you promoted Dog King out of the blue.

 

Regardless of the handling thus far, there was never "unmod Yui Yui sucks dicks", but "why Yui? What about the reasons that were enough to turn him down before?"

 

"Unhappiness" IS going to be there any time. At least somewhere. That's part of a position of any sort of power, no matter how minor. That doesn't mean you say funk it and do whatever you want.

 

I like Yui. I'm the one who was all for him being in the PR Duo until there was no way for me to support him. I don't think he's a bad person. But I worry about him because of his interactions with Winter or Dad or others he doesn't like, because he can be damn petty and/or hateful at those times. And how daunted he got in the past by the weight doesn't instill confidence, either. Wanting someone to succeed doesn't mean they will.

 

This is why I wanted to hear the team's logic, to show me where something changed that they think he'll fit the position, and why [[Other Member]] who fits Yui's niche with lower risk, and maybe slightly lower personability, wasn't considered instead. Maybe they were, but I just feel like they would have been chosen in yui's stead if they had been.

 

I don't echo the fears that some have that Yui got it for blindly defending the team, but that doesn't mean I don't want to understand the process that led to this.

 

It would seem not announcing it was an oops, which, if that's the case, is fine. Something that can be fixed.

[Dad]

I just want to ask: what part of this seems angry or calling BS?

 

I wanted an explanation and politely requested it. It's frustrating to have regurgitated info instead of explanations, which came after my hypothetical list (which I still need to read the replies to, but work ATM), but I'm not angry. It's not like you promoted Dog King out of the blue.

 

Regardless of the handling thus far, there was never "unmod Yui Yui sucks dicks", but "why Yui? What about the reasons that were enough to turn him down before?"

 

"Unhappiness" IS going to be there any time. At least somewhere. That's part of a position of any sort of power, no matter how minor. That doesn't mean you say funk it and do whatever you want.

 

I like Yui. I'm the one who was all for him being in the PR Duo until there was no way for me to support him. I don't think he's a bad person. But I worry about him because of his interactions with Winter or Dad or others he doesn't like, because he can be damn petty and/or hateful at those times. And how daunted he got in the past by the weight doesn't instill confidence, either. Wanting someone to succeed doesn't mean they will.

 

This is why I wanted to hear the team's logic, to show me where something changed that they think he'll fit the position, and why [[Other Member]] who fits Yui's niche with lower risk, and maybe slightly lower personability, wasn't considered instead. Maybe they were, but I just feel like they would have been chosen in yui's stead if they had been.

 

I don't echo the fears that some have that Yui got it for blindly defending the team, but that doesn't mean I don't want to understand the process that led to this.

 

It would seem not announcing it was an oops, which, if that's the case, is fine. Something that can be fixed.

 

Did I say you were angry?  I don't believe I did.  If it was interpreted that way, I apologize.

 

Clearly I'm not able to satisfy your concerns.  My answers weren't good enough.  So I got nothing else to say.  I tried giving you literally everything that happened in the Mod Forums.  The only thing I can do now is post screenshots, and I won't do that.  So if that's not good enough, then it's one more reason I was right.  I wasn't an adequate moderator if I can't solve something as simple as this.

 

So there you go.  I'll leave the rest to someone else.  Hope they'll be able to deliver a more satisfactory answer.

[Blake]

dude I have said repeatedly I haven't read them yet ._.

 

I'm just saying that (in general, as it applies to Zai as well) raising concerns isn't complaining or being unhappy. That it's not a lynching. Before anyone says it is.

[Tourmaline]

This post is purely for Yui. I will not reply if I see anyone else replies to it.

 

Regardless of the contrived matters of the site, a moderator must know the rules well, keep a clear mind and remember their duty as a tool of the community's success. The law of the land is a globally acknowledged contract among all members of a community prior to participation and, because the law lacks automation, moderators are chosen primarily for their aptness to embody the law and turn their word into reality.

 

Consider the definition and "he who moderates" etymology of "moderator." In tandem with knowledge of their duty, an individual who accepts loss of behavioral freedom in a contract granting power to keep the rules from obsolescence, "moderate" denoting prevention of draconian or anarchist atavism of law.

 

This precedes the identity of the person promoted. Intelligence and remembrance of one's duty are what make a person worth promoting, not contrived discussions of personality with a bizarre conclusion that a man is incapable of upkeeping superior behavior in face of new responsibility. The moderators before you are a personification of this fallacy.

 

I trust you will (as anyone else would) do well with these in mind, since duty is a forgotten cornerstone of administrative excellence.

[Yui]

I like Yui. I'm the one who was all for him being in the PR Duo until there was no way for me to support him. I don't think he's a bad person. But I worry about him because of his interactions with Winter or Dad or others he doesn't like, because he can be damn petty and/or hateful at those times. And how daunted he got in the past by the weight doesn't instill confidence, either. Wanting someone to succeed doesn't mean they will.

Since when do Dad and I not get along? XD

 

If I'm being honest, I would have been pretty reluctant to accept the position of General mod if Winter was still with us right now. But we won't be seeing him again until October. As I see it, that gives me time to work on not letting my opinions on members get in the way of my mod duties when I inevitably have to deal with other members I don't like. Even if I don't have full mod powers until July, that still gives me July, August, and September to work on that once I have that kind of power.

 

I'm just saying that (in general, as it applies to Zai as well) raising concerns isn't complaining or being unhappy. That it's not a lynching. Before anyone says it is.

Don't even worry about this part. I've seen YCM when they lynchmob, and this isn't even close to that. It's one or two dudes not even objecting so much as just asking why. I'm still wondering why me to a small extent as well, but as I saw it based on the thread in the mod forum, I was the name whose shortcomings weighed the least against the positives.

[Blake]

that was supposed to be dae ftr, but autocorrect

[Blake]

If you had actually asked these questions, I could've given answers sooner.  You gave me a general, unrefined question.  I gave you a basic answer.  I can go through this point by point.  I don't have a problem with that.  And the decision was made because no matter who we picked, YCM was not going to be happy with that selection.  So let's just get this out of the way before I'm demoted.

These things should have been covered in the first place, at least to a degree. I listed examples, not exacts, but none of that was touched upon. It's not on me to request information that should be discussed anyway. Transparency isn't "tell us what you want to hear now", it's telling us up front.

 

See my above statement.  This was a lengthy process.  It began mid to early May and didn't come to a conclusion until early last week.  Roughly three to four weeks.  We discussed the decision internally based on previous members, previous criteria, and who was and wasn't suitable for the position.  I'm not going to name drop publicly or privately.

Then can I say the member I think fits the bill? 

 

Someone had to take my place.  General is only quiet because no one is willing to take up the reigns and start a conversation.  Just because it's quiet doesn't mean we should forsake it and let it run itself.  Polls is all but self managing.  But I still poke my head in there regularly.  Activity does not equate to moderation.

 No one said that it shouldn't be moderated. I asked why it needed a specific mod.

 

When it's quiet + nothing is being done to improve it, activity does matter. We're not going to promote a mod for the sake of handling Clubs at this time, are we?

 

Something we considered.  That being said, its something we considered with all of the candidates chosen.  Yui's lack of investment is both good and bad.  Because he doesn't stick his head in General's front page too much, it's easier for him to be impartial.  That can be said about members who are highly invested in General as well.  To compare Yui, one of my recommended candidates had a lot of investment but was poor at managing conflict.  Yui is in Misc. more often than not.  He interacts regularly with a lot of General's regular members.  He has a lot of exposure to them, both playfully and seriously.

This raises more up than it puts down.

 

The logic of impartiality doesn't really hold when General isn't Debates, so issues of political alignment shouldn't be coming into play.

Yui has been reportedly said to be/admitted that he is poor at managing conflict. Or given to running from it.

If activity in Misc/low conflict means you're a boon, why isn't Nyx the mod?

 

I realize one of these will be covered later, but this statement alone doesn't do any convincing.

 

Among our candidates, Yui brings the following:

• He's more personable
• He's equally or more active
• He's less antagonistic
• He's trustworthy

Of these, the one I mentioned hits most of, if not all, of these checkmarks. There's no reason to distrust them, they doesn't antagonize people, they're very personable, and while they're a bit little less active, they are successfully managing a thing(s).

 

The point is that these aren't Yui-specifics. In fact, most of these things are simplified criteria from discussing a PR Mod, which is a position that personability and diligence were valued very, very highly for, which was a special case, as the other things we'd be looking for weren't as strict.

 

Yes.  I can vouch for that much.  Our interview with him went smoothly, and I can say with confidence he has interest in the section, its improvement, and its growth.  In fact, he's been questioning me for days -_-.

I've seen something to the contrary, but I don't have the evidence to press/don't want to drag Yui through the mud based on your word against mine.

 

He's angry.  Quick to react.  Like I was.  Before I became a Mod.  Two days in and I was already slowing myself down because I valued the job.  Personally, I believe he cares about the job.  Otherwise he wouldn't be going through the trouble of gathering information about the section, asking for help, and digging his heels in to figure out where to begin, and where to go forwards.

I'd love to be proved wrong. Time will tell. 

 

Because a lot changed over the year (approaching year?) that I've been a moderator and Yui was considered shortly thereafter.  His temperament is our biggest concern.  It was the mod team's concern of mine; how absurdly angry I could get.  I improved by leaps and bounds in my own opinion, and from what I gather, the opinion of others.  And I know if the team and the board could accept me--this is me we're talking about--then they can accept Yui.  Yui can be professional.  I've observed it.  His engagements have drastically changed in that time, and it was an important factor.

 Anecdotal self-assessments don't really have a place here. No one said he couldn't improve. No one is even vehemently objecting.

 

No one is saying Yui can't do it. It's a question of how this came to be, so that we can understand, because it is out of the blue (Seems to be a mistake, but).

 

Because you gave me the same opportunity.  If the challenge was to see how much they could get done in a month, we'd promote them to full moderators right away.  How do they answer reports?  Do they consult the team before making major decisions (bans, heavy point warnings).  Can they handle an influx of Admin Panel related requests (name changes, title changes, marriage updates, created groups, and more)?  He is heavily restricted right now.  He can't even see reports.  If you wanna know if he can bring more discussion to General, that doesn't seem to be the best way to go about it.

 

I had an easier time because Debates was only just returning.  I was able to set the pace.  Yui is taking over from a pre-established setting.  Things are already so well controlled, that they have quieted down.  Or maybe you want him to create more site wide events?  I don't know.  I'm saying that it's harder for this trial period to be a measure of "what they get done for the site" than it is to see if they can actually fold into a moderating position.  If he can't even become a moderator, what do I care if he can do anything for the site?  He has to be able to handle this position of "power" before he can actually get in and start making changes.

 

Take all of this lightly.  About sixty percent of what you read above is coming from me (I'm an individual, but I'm speaking generally on what happened in the mod forums with the team, so there is unavoidable bias).  I'll be here for a little while longer to answer any questions I can.

I was merely pointing out the issues with the Trial Period.

 

Lack of ability to do things a mod could do only makes the issues more apparent, because outside of showing leadership... They can only warn. But that's a broken system. So what is being tested in this trial period, if not leadership?

 

Again, though, I'll cite certain other member as a counter to your points, because that member HAS achieved things in the name of the site. Are their achievements insignificant because they aren't a mod?

 

And these can be raising concerns or just handling things on the site.

 

You could cite Yui running RPs (if he runs them, idk, I don't pay attention), for example, because that shows management skills to a degree, based on how well he performed in that duty. You could cite minor achievements or actions in regards to improving the site as a whole. But to say achievements don't matter unless it's a Mod is...