Keep Trump VS Impeach Trump

[Delibirb]

I hold that it's central to discussing the implications of a Pence presidency which is what we're doing here in comparing keeping Trump to impeaching Trump [resulting in President Pence]. The American political landscape would look vastly different without any religious aspect. 

It probably would be, but for the better

 

As I understand it, the key to marriage is that it is a union of two unspecified people that is recognized by law. In the past, when it was devised, the law and religion were one and the same, if not went hand in hand, so it naturally had religious influence and intentions. Today, weddings are often planned with religious traditions and undertones, as most people are religious, but there is no inherent need for it. Particularly as a wedding does not need to be officiated by a religious person (Brian Cranston once wed two people on an airplane), nor does it need to be held in a church or chapel, as long as the government has recognized that they are legally allowed to do so. Marriage between two people of the same sex is only controversial because A: People like to make a fuss because they think they invented marriage, B: People can't understand how love works for anyone but for themselves, C: People have forgotten when it was unusual to be attracted to only one sex as opposed to both, and/or D: People think the law and religion are still intertwined in some areas.

 

There is no "sanctity of marriage." It has always been a lawful wedding of two people. The only difference between now and then is that religion is no longer the law and therefore people who defy religious orders can be married anyway, because it's a lawful union at its core.

 

However, I do agree with dad that if we are going to get so specific into this topic, although it is somewhat relevant to the decision of having Trump remain President or be succeeded by Pence, it really does deserve its own topic, or it will quickly engulf this one.

[Halubaris Maphotika]

There are certain things more likely to wind up as impeachable offenses, like treason or perjury, but if the House was feeling collectively petty they could impeach you over anything.

*cough*Bill Clinton*cough*

 

 

-Marriage is a religious ceremony clearly defined as being between a man and a woman that needn't be desecrated for the sake of legal perks that could just as well be achieved through civil unions.  

As a Catholic who believes the Bible is absolute. I disagree with this.

 

The word wife originates from the Indo-European root ghwībh. This roughly translates to "female pudenda", which has clear sexual overtones. The idea of young male's, who engaged in same-sexual intercourse, being considered "feminine" had been the general belief within the Roman Empire (Where Christianity originated). At other points, being the "bottom" in gay sex as a male was considered not even being a man in other instances.

 

Even with this, the Old Testament predates the Council of Nicea, and it would give heavy credence that, unless it specifies a female, the word "Wife" in the bible becomes gender neutral at that point. With that said, the Bible does not specify that marriage is only between a male and female. In fact, when the Bible does specify two people in a marriage, it usually says "Man and Wife". This is important to consider considering woman is not used when mentioning marriage in that context.

[fearen]

From what we can reasonably infer about Trump based on his actions (I'm going to ignore conspiracy theories about Russian ties for the sake of keeping the thread sane), he seems to be volatile and self serving rather than actively malicious. I wouldn't trust Trump with my life, but with him as president I sincerely doubt that a scenario where I would have to will arise. Pence, on the other hand, has clear motivations based on his religious beliefs. Due to the fact that I'm a bisexual, agnostic atheist with liberal views, I have to say that I prefer Trump remaining president.
 

They'd disagree with me about marriage being clearly defined in the Bible as between a man and a woman? Then they'd be empirically wrong, and unnervingly so for "Christian religious leaders". 
 
 
>"far beyond just religion"
 
Evidently religion isn't something you take very seriously, which is your right, but seeing as you don't you're not in a position to speak for those who do. If it's secular, it isn't marriage. It's a civil union, which is a great idea for gay couples to undergo in order to respect the sanctity of marriage while gaining similar rights and benefits. 
 
 
Yes, it's old. No, it's not irrelevant. Nothing has ever been written that has more relevance today. It is revered as the eternal and unchanging word of God by billions.

 

Marriage predates written history, and by extension, Christianity. To say that Christian marriage cannot be secular is entirely accurate, but we're not discussing Christian marriages. We're discussing marriage as a legal institution in the United States, for the purposes of deciding whether we agree with Pence or not, for the purposes of arguing whether Trump or Pence would be better suited for the role of presidency, for deciding whether it would be better if Trump was impeached and Pence took his position. I think we can all agree that we've become very far removed from the topic at hand. If you wish to discuss the topic further, I'd be glad to do so in another thread made specifically for doing so.
 
I also find it slightly unnerving that you used the greentext memetext on the cardmaker forums, but that's a different discussion entirely.