Keep Trump VS Impeach Trump

[cr47t]

At this point I'm not sure whether keeping Trump or impeaching in exchange for Pence would be better

I thought this would make a good discussion. I said this because I have found Trump is so suspectible to outside influences and that his administration is a wreck, or a "fine-tuned machine" designed to be a wreck.

 

Discuss. Would you prefer Trump or Pence to be the president? Why or why not?

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

and none of that is grounds for impeachment 

 

:)

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

Trump's been doing a fine job of maintaining his promises that got him elected. It would undermine the democratic process to impeach him and set a bad precedent that would further limit any future POTUS for fear of impeachment. 

 

Not a knock on my man Pence, though. He was booed en masse and brushed it off, saying "that's what freedom sounds like". He strikes me as a relatively decent guy within the framework of (V)P'sOTUS.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Trump's been doing a fine job of maintaining his promises that got him elected. It would undermine the democratic process to impeach him and set a bad precedent that would further limit any future POTUS for fear of impeachment. 

 

Not a knock on my man Pence, though. He was booed en masse and brushed it off, saying "that's what freedom sounds like". He strikes me as a relatively decent guy within the framework of (V)P'sOTUS.

But Craft doesn't like Trump!

[a bad post]

As a Gay^tm   I would much to prefer to have an incompetent like Trump in the office over Pence

[Aerion Brightflame]

You can't actually say nothing Trump has done is an impeachable offense or not, because in the words of Gerald Ford;

 

" An impeachable offense is whatever a majority of the House of Representatives considers it to be at a given moment in history.". If the house really wanted to, jaywalking would become an impeachable offence.

 

There are certain things more likely to wind up as impeachable offenses, like treason or perjury, but if the House was feeling collectively petty they could impeach you over anything.

 

So the thread shouldn't be about 'do you think anything he's done is impeachable' and more 'if he did commit something congress was willing to impeach would you rather he did get impeached or not?' Which is what Craft asked in the first place.

 

And I don't know. There's a certain level of seeming disorganisation and absurdity that makes me like the Trump presidency more than how the Pence presidency would hold themselves. But at the same time, the Pence presidency is less likely to do something insane out of ignorance because Pence at least has history as a politician. It's weird to consider.

[mido9]

I really, really don't think his administration is as big of a trainwreck internally as claimed, honestly. I mean, there's a lot of noise being made, but it's mostly by democrats trying to pin russia on him and trying to get him investigated for anything(they still haven't found much, iirc) and coming up with more and more . Flynn getting fired was bad and the muslim ban going to scotus is worse too, but there's still a lot of laws being passed and things being debated, things are moving along.

[Dad]

But Craft doesn't like Trump!

 

Knock it off.  If you're not gonna contribute, stay out of the topic.

[Delibirb]

I'd rather Trump over Pence, if those were my only options. Ive never particularly minded Trump to the point that the whining left does, but I don't adore him and won't blindly defend him like the whining right does. In my opinion, he's focused on the right issues, but needs to accept some discussion as to what the right solutions are.

[Fusion X. Denver]

Not sure who I'd prefer, honestly. Not like either of them use secure emails  ::

 

I do have this theory that Trump is being used to get as much "done" as possible before being swept aside for Pence to take over. I don't have a particular reason for thinking that, just that I could see that happening. 

 

There's definitely something larger at work here that's fishy. Not saying Trump is a Russian agent or anything, but there is something there. It's very odd that GOP is trying to prevent investigations into that connection when so many people are demanding for them. It screams to me that there's a truth they don't want being revealed and it's only a matter of time before the truth gets out. And I wonder if that truth will be cause for Trump to get the boot. If my conspiracy theory holds true, then I'd say they don't want the truth getting out yet until whatever needs to be done is done.

 

I'll do more research on the matter so I can more fully flesh out an opinion, but those are currently my thoughts regarding a potential Pence presidency.

[Resident Fascist]

I mean, I honestly don't think Trump's done anything wrong

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

As a Gay^tm   I would much to prefer to have an incompetent like Trump in the office over Pence

 

-To "provide assistance to those seeking to change their sexual behavior" is not tantamount to electroshocking queer kids. This lie is the crux of anti-Pence fear mongering. 

-Marriage is a religious ceremony clearly defined as being between a man and a woman that needn't be desecrated for the sake of legal perks that could just as well be achieved through civil unions. 

 

The gay rights issue I disagree with Pence on is his support of Don't Ask Don't Tell. The military - that makes a business of dividing, killing, and pillaging - has a pretty negligible margin for further corruptibility by way of gay promiscuity. 

[(GigaDrillBreaker)]

-Marriage is a religious ceremony clearly defined as being between a man and a woman that needn't be desecrated for the sake of legal perks that could just as well be achieved through civil unions.

Many Christian religious leaders would disagree with you on that matter. The Bible is very old, and was written in an entirely different culture.

 

Not to mention that marriage is a matter far beyond just religion in this day and age, behaving more as a societal construct than a religious one.

 

 

As for the topic at hand, I feel Pence is considerably better at his job than Trump, and the mistakes he would make are of a completely different nature. That said, I wouldn't support Trump's removal from office unless the case against him was reasonable and well-confirmed. Despite my opinions on him as a man and a leader of the country, he has not yet done anything to warrant removal from office. Or at least, none such has yet been proven.

[Sunshine Jesse]

Trump hasn't even done anything yet other than shake sticks at brown people and make token, pointless gestures.

 

When he gets us into pointless wars and ruins the economy through repealing banking regulations without replacement, maybe we can talk.

 

I'd rather Trump than Pence anyways as Trump is doing a wonderful job of attacking the MSM and Pence would do no such thing. Aside from that and TPP, they'd be pretty much the same.

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

Might as well get this off my back, so I don't keep venting about this on Discord in private.
 
As much as I don't like Trump because of his general rhetoric (which doesn't resonate well here due to the population makeup, and how the travel ban/potential implications can affect us [well, mostly foreign students and some who got brought over by their families here]) and some of the cabinet picks being unqualified to be in their current positions (either lack of experience in that field and/or other factors*), that's pretty much it. We'd all like the US to be safer and I can understand why the travel ban was put into place, but it could've been thought out much more carefully. That, and keep jobs in this country. 
 

Trump's a "loose cannon" (hence why I didn't want him, given what he's known for), but he hasn't done too much else other than the travel ban and some other typical things. Then again, he's a supporter of LGBT rights; something that Pence is against (if I remember correctly). 
 
====

As much as I don't like him, he hasn't done anything rash that would warrant him getting impeached...yet. When he starts doing it, then maybe, but a Pence presidency probably won't be any better. 

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

 Not like either of them use secure emails  ::

Trump doesn't use email

 

Maybe you mean "secure Twitter"

I thought this would make a good discussion. I said this because I have found Trump is so suspectible to outside influences and that his administration is a wreck, or a "fine-tuned machine" designed to be a wreck.

 

Discuss. Would you prefer Trump or Pence to be the president? Why or why not?

 

 

Knock it off.  If you're not gonna contribute, stay out of the topic.

Knock what off?

 

1) Susceptible to foreign influence- seems like POTUS is making foreign policy against the usual grain of FP

2) Admin is keeping the promises it made in the campaign

 

Craft is free to dislike the president and be a normie, but if personal distaste from a millennial was grounds for impeachment, we'd have a radically different country

 

I'm waiting for him to prove anything he alleged 

[Aerion Brightflame]

Knock what off?

 

1) Susceptible to foreign influence- seems like POTUS is making foreign policy against the usual grain of FP

2) Admin is keeping the promises it made in the campaign

 

Craft is free to dislike the president and be a normie, but if personal distaste from a millennial was grounds for impeachment, we'd have a radically different country

 

I'm waiting for him to prove anything he alleged 

 

I think Dad means shitposting. Because a one line post going 'but craft doesn't like Trump' is nothing but a shitpost intending to aggravate the situation.

 

And again; Craft isn't suggesting for the purposes of this thread that Trump has done something impeachable (Not that that matters because anything is technically impeachable if the house felt petty). The things he alleged in the OP are irrelevant to the thread because it's his personal opinion. He, personally, has found it to be the case, it doesn't make it the case. That would be a seperate thread. The thread is about whether in your view Trump is impeachable.

 

In essence, as Dad said, contribute to the purpose of the thread, or don't contribute at all. Because Two sentances of bollocks that haven't even tried to answer the point made or raise any kind of point is not contributing. This third reply is the first thing that came close to actually furthering the conversation, and even then in my eyes it's doing so in something irrelevant to the intended discussion.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

It's not really. Nothing Craft mentioned was an impeachable offense. Yet he called for it all the same. The only conclusion to draw from his OP was that he disliked POTUS and wanted him removed.

 

Let's assume your interp is valid, what the bloody funk is the pt of the topic then? IDK how many of you are lawyers here, and furthermore I highly doubt many of you are impeachment lawyers. What you feel doesn't matter. Facts don't care about your feelings. 

 

We'll know when Trump is impeachable when/if Congress does it 

 

Until then this is just a vent topic by YCM's left. I want POTUS to be impeached/not impeached based on x/y

 

That's only a worthwhile statement if x or y is actually illegal 

 

 

 

---

 

No, I don't think he should be impeached. He's been damn near perfect in my books 

[Aerion Brightflame]

Again; Anything can be an impeachable offense if the house wills it so. We can debate the likelyhood that they will, but I do not think we say 'It's not impeachable', simply that impeachment is unlikely. He didn't even call for him to be impeached, he said he didn't know which he'd prefer, unless I am misreading something here. 

 

And yes, the thread is exactly that; To say if we think Trump should be impeached, to see if we want him to be impeached, and to see if people prefer him or Pence. All perfectly valid lines of discussion that can lead to many differing views, and differing arguments on what is what. I don't see any problem with any of those things being discussed, because it's an interesting hypothosis to consider in any given case.

 

And thank you for giving your opinions on the issue. I wish in future you could do this in more rapid time and not read things into the posts that aren't there it would be quite nice.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

I thought this would make a good discussion. I said this because I have found Trump is so suspectible to outside influences and that his administration is a wreck, or a "fine-tuned machine" designed to be a wreck.

 

Discuss. Would you prefer Trump or Pence to be the president? Why or why not?

 

So the thread shouldn't be about 'do you think anything he's done is impeachable' and more 'if he did commit something congress was willing to impeach would you rather he did get impeached or not?' Which is what Craft asked in the first place.

 

 

That's not what Craft asked though.

 

Crafts post was simply

 

Trump has done x and y that I feel are impeachable

 

Do you prefer Pence or Trump. Your interpretation, even though it's seemingly been endorsed by Craft now, was not clear to start. So I respond

 

 

And thank you for giving your opinions on the issue. I wish in future you could do this in more rapid time and not read things into the posts that aren't there it would be quite nice.

 

[Aerion Brightflame]

In combination with the thread title i.e. 'Keep Trump vs Impeach Trump' surely the context of that the statement should have been clear? That it's based around whether you feel Trump should or shouldn't be impeached, and why or why not that may be the case.

 

I suppose it was a little less clear than I gave it credit for, in which case I apologise for being condensending about 'reading too much into things'. I still feel like you read more into Crafts statements than he intended around whether or not Trump had done impeachable sheet, but I should have been less condensending posting it.

[cr47t]

Crafts post was simply

 

Trump has done x and y that I feel are impeachable

Just to clear things up, Winter;

 

At this point I'm not sure whether keeping Trump or impeaching in exchange for Pence would be better

"I'm not sure" are the key words here, I was presenting the topic to see what others thought. Trump hasn't been proved to do anything illegal as president as of yet but I feel he's heading his administration down a dangerous road that could easily end in placing him on the congressional hot seat.

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

Many Christian religious leaders would disagree with you on that matter.

 

They'd disagree with me about marriage being clearly defined in the Bible as between a man and a woman? Then they'd be empirically wrong, and unnervingly so for "Christian religious leaders". 

 

Not to mention that marriage is a matter far beyond just religion in this day and age, behaving more as a societal construct than a religious one.

 

>"far beyond just religion"

 

Evidently religion isn't something you take very seriously, which is your right, but seeing as you don't you're not in a position to speak for those who do. If it's secular, it isn't marriage. It's a civil union, which is a great idea for gay couples to undergo in order to respect the sanctity of marriage while gaining similar rights and benefits. 

 

The Bible is very old, and was written in an entirely different culture.

 

Yes, it's old. No, it's not irrelevant. Nothing has ever been written that has more relevance today. It is revered as the eternal and unchanging word of God by billions. 

[Dad]

Imma step in and shut this down right now.  Take any religious arguments out of this thread.  They don't belong here.  Take it to the appropriate thread.

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

I hold that it's central to discussing the implications of a Pence presidency which is what we're doing here in comparing keeping Trump to impeaching Trump [resulting in President Pence]. The American political landscape would look vastly different without any religious aspect.