Justice Democrats

[Phantom Roxas]

https://justicedemocrats.com/?utm_expid=138498668-0.DbzB_JSuQ6u6dZl0XxJRfw.0

 

In light of the 2016 Presidential Election, Cenk Uygur of The Young Turks has worked with several staffers from Bernie Sanders' campaign to transform the Democratic Party, aiming to replace the corporate-influenced members of Congress with Democrats who are more concerned with the interests of the people.

 

 

I'm… conflicted on this. For a while, I was very much opposed to how Hillary Clinton's supporters would blame Bernie Sanders who how the primaries went (And vice versa, but I'll always prefer Sanders' side). Apparently the Justice Democrats are also working with Brand New Congress and Our Revolution, so I would think that I should be happy to see that Sander's influence has continued beyond the election. However, this seems like the main lesson from the primaries did not stick at all. Clinton and Sanders' respective supporters were at each other's throats, which was exactly the problem. The bad blood meant that the party risked splitting in two. While these are just movements, the goal of blatantly drawing a line like this may as well be making a direct statement of the Democratic Party trying to cannibalize itself. Maybe I'm ignorant of precedences, but I'm not sure what to think of this. On the one hand, it means that the campaign I favored most of all in the election can continue on in some form, and yet, a schism in the Democratic Party is the last thing I would have liked to see right now.

 

Curious what everyone's thoughts are in this. Do you support or oppose this? Or are the Justice Democrats fighting in vain for a change they might not get? Especially considering how trying to help Sanders win the primaries went last year.

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

While I'm all for shedding corporate influences on politicians, Cenk Uygur is very much a partisan pundit. To trust him with ensuring the purity and justice of the Democratic party would be tantamount to trusting Alex Jones with keeping the Republican party clean.

 

Hopefully Cenk Potato will weigh in on this.

[BANZAI!!!!]

Any movement of the sort is a-ok by me. At the very least its increasing awareness. Also it sort of reminds me of the origins of the tea party, so mayhaps the democrats are in for their own grassroots movement.

 

Either way, i hope it picks up steam.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Man, you guys really want people like me to never vote Dem again, don't you.

 

Y'all lose this election due to Obama->Trump voters, and now you wanna double down. It's not shocking, but it's disappointing.

 

While President Trump is meeting with union leaders and eating into the Hispanic base of the dems with plans to legalize DACA, people are going further left. 

 

I knew this day would come, and now I'm vindicated in leaving this mess of a party

 

TYT is funking Infowars level BS guys...jesus. Doubling down isn't gonna win back the Rustbelt

[BANZAI!!!!]

Man, you guys really want people like me to never vote Dem again, don't you.

 

Y'all lose this election due to Obama->Trump voters, and now you wanna double down. It's not shocking, but it's disappointing.

 

While President Trump is meeting with union leaders and eating into the Hispanic base of the dems with plans to legalize DACA, people are going further left. 

 

I knew this day would come, and now I'm vindicated in leaving this mess of a party

 

TYT is f***ing Infowars level BS guys...jesus. Doubling down isn't gonna win back the Rustbelt

I don't see how this vindicates anything. The republican party is where it is right now because of anti-establishment sentiments that led to the tea party and to trump's platform.

 

Also what sort of problem is there with being liberal in the first place?

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

I don't see how this vindicates anything. The republican party is where it is right now because of anti-establishment sentiments that led to the tea party and to trump's platform.

 

Also what sort of problem is there with being liberal in the first place?

Nothing, there's plenty of liberal positions that are adored by the American people. Such as keeping social security and medicare. Single payer isn't one of them. Free college isn't one of them.

 

The 2016 Dem party was the most progressive one ever made, Bernie campaigned tirelessly for HRC who threw her moderation into the wind and charged left. Wasn't enough. Sure you can wrack up your margin in California, but that doesn't win election.

 

Tea Party and Trump won on being pragmatists, not ideologues. You won't see that from the identity politics leftists 

 

A growing portion of America supports LGBT rights, you see the GOP slowly easing up on that, Millennials are more pro-life than their parents, do you see the dems realizing that? Fiscal conservatism is popular, where's that seen w/ the dems. I dislike strong ideologues taking power cause that's when discourse dies 

[Phantom Roxas]

While I'm all for shedding corporate influences on politicians, Cenk Uygur is very much a partisan pundit. To trust him with ensuring the purity and justice of the Democratic party would be tantamount to trusting Alex Jones with keeping the Republican party clean.

 

Hopefully Cenk Potato will weigh in on this.

 

Heh. That sounds about right, and that might be why I'm so skeptical.

 

Any movement of the sort is a-ok by me. At the very least its increasing awareness. Also it sort of reminds me of the origins of the tea party, so mayhaps the democrats are in for their own grassroots movement.

 

Either way, i hope it picks up steam.

 

Every comparison I see of this is that it's essentially a left-wing Tea Party, so that sounds about right.

 

Man, you guys really want people like me to never vote Dem again don't you.

 

Y'all lose this election due to Obama->Trump voters, and now you wanna double down. It's not shocking, but it's disappointing.

 

While President Trump is meeting with union leaders and eating into the Hispanic base of the dems with plans to legalize DACA, people are going further left. 

 

I knew this day would come, and I'm vindicated in leaving this mess of a party

 

TYT is funking Infowars level BS guys...jesus. Doubling down isn't gonna win back the Rustbelt

 

I'm not sure how much further left there is to go. To me, it seems like the Justice Democrats and "Corporate Democrats" (Best shorthand I've got for "Democrats who the Justice Democrats oppose") are both already far enough to the left, but are arguing with each other over who the "real" left is. But yes, this going on while Trump is active is my main concern. How many of Clinton's supporters had to trash talk so-called "BernieBros"? Both Clinton and Sanders' camps blame each other for Trump winning, and operating as "Justice Democrats" only seems to be putting new names to the existing groups. People are just continuing where they left off in the primaries.

[mido9]

Nothing, there's plenty of liberal positions that are adored by the American people. Such as keeping social security and medicare. Single payer isn't one of them. Free college isn't one of them.

 

The 2016 Dem party was the most progressive one ever made, Bernie campaigned tirelessly for HRC who threw her moderation into the wind and charged left. Wasn't enough. Sure you can wrack up your margin in California, but that doesn't win election.

 

Tea Party and Trump won on being pragmatists, not ideologues. You won't see that from the identity politics leftists 

I mean, why don't they just throw out the autistic-screeching-tier leftists? It's not like this movement has really solidified yet, it's two days old and basically everyone hates them including the left now for basically electing trump.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Trump and Bannon are going to steal your base from right under your feet. Trump doesn't hate LGBT. Trump doesn't care enough about climate change to buck the public on that. He's already in talks with Musk about a Carbon Tax. He'll play both sides. If you don't play this right, he'll get 60% of the White vote, 40% of the Hispanic and Asian votes, and 25% of the AA vote in 2020.

 

The GOP for all their faults realizes the failures of ideological politics, why can't the dems. 

 

How much further? Doubling down on identity politics is a good way to do it? Recklessly supporting things like free college could also work

I mean, why don't they just throw out the autistic-screeching-tier leftists? It's not like this movement has really solidified yet, it's two days old and basically everyone hates them including the left now for basically electing trump.

The ASTL is the new left. That's why I left the dems. They're more prevalent than you think. I'd like a return to Bill Clinton or JFK, but that's not gonna happen. 

[BANZAI!!!!]

Trump and Bannon are going to steal your base from right under your feet. Trump doesn't hate LGBT. Trump doesn't care enough about climate change to buck the public on that. He's already in talks with Musk about a Carbon Tax. He'll play both sides. If you don't play this right, he'll get 60% of the White vote, 40% of the Hispanic and Asian votes, and 25% of the AA vote in 2020.

 

The GOP for all their faults realizes the failures of ideological politics, why can't the dems.

 

How much further? Doubling down on identity politics is a good way to do it? Recklessly supporting things like free college could also work

 

The ASTL is the new left. That's why I left the dems. They're more prevalent than you think. I'd like a return to Bill Clinton or JFK, but that's not gonna happen.

 

Saying that the "ASTL" is the new left is like saying fundementalist bigots are the new right. Untrue and discriminatory.

 

We're also less than two weeks into his presidency. Unless you can see the future, you have no way of knowing what the political climate of 2020 will look like. Based purely on public opinion right this second, I'd say the general consensus is that he's up sheet's creek without a paddle.

 

I hate editing my posts, but side note: selecting mike pence as your running mate has me seriously concerned about your opinions on the LGBTQWhatever other letters im missing community. Just saying

[Phantom Roxas]

Trump doesn't hate LGBT.

 

He does. http://www.lgbtqnation.com/2017/01/top-10-anti-lgbt-quotes-donald-trump/

 

Go read that, and look up more. Trump has no qualms about opposing the LGBT community. I don't get want to get too much into it, though. I could see it being more relevant to the administration thread, but I'll wait to see what other people think.

 

Saying that the "ASTL" is the new left is like saying fundementalist bigots are the new right. Untrue and discriminatory.

 

Agreed. Winter, mido, don't use "autistic" as a pejorative. Any further offenses will be treated as ableism, and you will be warned.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Saying that the "ASTL" is the new left is like saying fundementalist bigots are the new right. Untrue and discriminatory.

 

We're also less than two weeks into his presidency. Unless you can see the future, you have no way of knowing what the political climate of 2020 will look like. Based purely on public opinion right this second, I'd say the general consensus is that he's up sheet's creek without a paddle.

 

I hate editing my posts, but side note: selecting mike pence as your running mate has me seriously concerned about your opinions on the LGBTQWhatever other letters im missing community. Just saying

I'd want Mike Pence as insurance if people wanted to kick me out of office too. Tell me when Pence starts making LGBT discriminatory policies. 

 

I can't see in the future, but he's been open to a pragmatic solution for climate change in the past. Chinese Hoax gets all the coverage, but there's more than that people don't realize

He does. http://www.lgbtqnation.com/2017/01/top-10-anti-lgbt-quotes-donald-trump/

 

Go read that, and look up more. Trump has no qualms about opposing the LGBT community. I don't get want to get too much into it, though. I could see it being more relevant to the administration thread, but I'll wait to see what other people think.

 

 

Agreed. Winter, mido, don't use "autistic" as a pejorative. Any further offenses will be treated as ableism, and you will be warned.

Sure and sure, it was more as a call out to this 

 

au·tism

ˈôˌtizəm/Submit

noun

a mental condition, present from early childhood, characterized by difficulty in communicating and forming relationships with other people and in using language and abstract concepts.

 

Than the first part, but it's not needed, I'll agree. My apologies 

[Sunshine Jesse]

Considering the Tea Party succeeded in moving the Republicans further to the right (to the detriment of the entire country), I have high hopes for this.

 

The only way the Dems can win again is by showing they actually care about the people, and trying to expel corporate influences is the best means of doing that.

 

Not the hugest fan of someone as divisive as Cenk being a figurehead though.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Considering the Tea Party succeeded in moving the Republicans further to the right (to the detriment of the entire country), I have high hopes for this.

 

The only way the Dems can win again is by showing they actually care about the people, and trying to expel corporate influences is the best means of doing that.

 

Not the hugest fan of someone as divisive as Cenk being a figurehead though.

Idaho Dem looking to run for DNC basically spent last night saying as a white woman, we need more like her to tell white people to stfu

 

C'mon, going cenkside is like making Jones RNC chair

 

Tea Party is tagging the trump line atm, which is quite center. They're a pragmatist movement 

[BANZAI!!!!]

Considering the Tea Party succeeded in moving the Republicans further to the right (to the detriment of the entire country), I have high hopes for this.

 

The only way the Dems can win again is by showing they actually care about the people, and trying to expel corporate influences is the best means of doing that.

 

Not the hugest fan of someone as divisive as Cenk being a figurehead though.

Could always be worse. The fact that we have something like this at all to watch makes me a bit hopeful.

 

Tea Party is tagging the trump line atm, which is quite center. They're a pragmatist movement

 

 

Sorry to double post, but thats one of the funniest things i've heard all day. A far right anti establishment grassroots movement is certainly not "pragmatic".

[Sunshine Jesse]

Idaho Dem looking to run for DNC basically spent last night saying as a white woman, we need more like her to tell white people to stfu

 

C'mon, going cenkside is like making Jones RNC chair

 

Tea Party is tagging the trump line atm, which is quite center. They're a pragmatist movement 

Cenk doesn't sell snake oil or claim that tragedies that killed dozens/hundreds/thousands of people and ruined lives were hoaxes though.

minus the armenian genocide thing, which he rescinded

 

He's just disagreeable and has an annoying personality. Comparing him with Jones is ridiculous, unless I missed something (because I don't actually watch TYT).

 

The Tea Party follows him for his far-right policies. Not his kinda sorta moderate ones and certainly not his liberal ones.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Could always be worse. The fact that we have something like this at all to watch makes me a bit hopeful.

 

 

Sorry to double post, but thats one of the funniest things i've heard all day. A far right anti establishment grassroots movement is certainly not "pragmatic".

Trump is def center. Maybe even center left at times

The Tea Party follows him for his far-right policies. Not his kinda sorta moderate ones and certainly not his liberal ones.

Such as? What far right policy would that be?

 

Missed the fine print on the AG

[Sunshine Jesse]

His tax plans and views are immigration are right-wing to the core, no matter how reasonable you might find them.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

His tax plans and views are immigration are right-wing to the core, no matter how reasonable you might find them.

Depends what his tax plans are tbh, if Mnuchin is correct and that the tax cuts are made out only to the middle class (which runs cont. to Ryan plan), then it would not be. 

 

Can't argue on immigration, but I'd defend those as rational 

[a bad post]

Nothing, there's plenty of liberal positions that are adored by the American people. Such as keeping social security and medicare. Single payer isn't one of them. Free college isn't one of them.

 

The 2016 Dem party was the most progressive one ever made, Bernie campaigned tirelessly for HRC who threw her moderation into the wind and charged left. Wasn't enough. Sure you can wrack up your margin in California, but that doesn't win election.

 

Tea Party and Trump won on being pragmatists, not ideologues. You won't see that from the identity politics leftists 

 

A growing portion of America supports LGBT rights, you see the GOP slowly easing up on that, Millennials are more pro-life than their parents, do you see the dems realizing that? Fiscal conservatism is popular, where's that seen w/ the dems. I dislike strong ideologues taking power cause that's when discourse dies 

I think it's really funny that you're saying that the GOP is slowly easing up on LGBT stuff when the RNC platform had called for conversion therapy and for the overturning the 2015 Supreme Court decision. Not only that but Ted Cruz is already drafting a bill to allow for LGBT discrimination in businesses, which Donald Trump has already said that he will sign if it gets to his desk. Also, Texas is trying to pass SB 242 to basically force teachers to out LGBT students to their parents, which as you can imagine is probably not all that great for those kids. So, say what you want about the country's opinion on LGBT rights (I disagree there too, but this isn't a debate about that so I'll leave that for another time), but the GOP as a whole is by no means easing up on the LGBT community, and if anything they're doubling down.

 

On topic though I think this a great idea. The Democratic party badly needs to restructure and come together for 2018, and stop trying to claw each other's throats out for minor differences. The reason the Democratic party lost is not because it was too PC or too left (in fact data shows just the opposite), it was because the party did not convey its message well enough and spent the general election playing the blame game.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

I think it's really funny that you're saying that the GOP is slowly easing up on LGBT stuff when the RNC platform had called for conversion therapy and for the overturning the 2015 Supreme Court decision. Not only that but Ted Cruz is already drafting a bill to allow for LGBT discrimination in businesses, which Donald Trump has already said that he will sign if it gets to his desk. Also, Texas is trying to pass SB 242 to basically force teachers to out LGBT students to their parents, which as you can imagine is probably not all that great for those kids. So, say what you want about the country's opinion on LGBT rights (I disagree there too, but this isn't a debate about that so I'll leave that for another time), but the GOP as a whole is by no means easing up on the LGBT community, and if anything they're doubling down.

 

On topic though I think this a great idea. The Democratic party badly needs to restructure and come together for 2018, and stop trying to claw each other's throats out for minor differences. The reason the Democratic party lost is not because it was too PC or too left (in fact data shows just the opposite), it was because the party did not convey its message well enough and spent the general election playing the blame game.

The facts show that far left policies such a single payer were soundly rejected around the nations.

 

Can you point me to the bill that designed to "LGBT discrimination in businesses"

 

Cause y'all said the same thing about Pence and his version of H2B in Indian, but with a slight amendment it was fixed wthin a week. As for the RCN platform. Trump is following what he promised, not what the cruzites who packed the committee said. Trump voters were far more tolerant to LGBT than cruz and other candidate. Idk about the entire GOP, but there's a good portion of us who don't hate y'all

[a bad post]

The facts show that far left policies such a single payer were soundly rejected around the nations.

 

Can you point me to the bill that designed to "LGBT discrimination in businesses"

 

Cause y'all said the same thing about Pence and his version of H2B in Indian, but with a slight amendment it was fixed wthin a week. As for the RCN platform. Trump is following what he promised, not what the cruzites who packed the committee said. Trump voters were far more tolerant to LGBT than cruz and other candidate. Idk about the entire GOP, but there's a good portion of us who don't hate y'all

https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/house-bill/2802/all-info

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/opinion-la/la-ol-first-amendment-defense-act-trump-20170106-story.html

http://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/first-amendment-defense-act-would-be-devastating-lgbtq-americans-n698416

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/house-bill/2802/all-info

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/opinion-la/la-ol-first-amendment-defense-act-trump-20170106-story.html

http://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/first-amendment-defense-act-would-be-devastating-lgbtq-americans-n698416

And citation of Trump saying he would sign a bill re-affirming 1 man 1 woman please?

 

Cause the only recorded instance is him saying the opposite of "it's settled law"

 

There's a difference between stopping people from suing for 200k for not making a cake and overturning same sex marriage as those links attempt to imply

[BANZAI!!!!]

And citation of Trump saying he would sign a bill re-affirming 1 man 1 woman please?

 

Cause the only recorded instance is him saying the opposite of "it's settled law"

 

There's a difference between stopping people from suing for 200k for not making a cake and overturning same sex marriage as those links attempt to imply

While true, it doesn't change the fact that refusing a customer's buisness based on their sexuality is as discriminatory as refusing buisness based on race. Moving any policy back in that kind of direction is grounds for concern.

 

Also something something try to stay on topic.

[Tentacruel]

I'd like to believe that the GOP is easing up on LGBT issues but a lot of them still have their heads up their asses about it.  

 

You can retain your own traditional or religious beliefs without pushing for discrimination of people who don't. 

 

OT:  Both parties need reform but as others said the guy from the Young Turks is not the man do it.