Wahrheit Posted January 21, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 We're all a cluster of cells by that logic. I'm saying that the marchers don't give a flying f*** about woman's rights and are fake feminists. I'm so glad that a man is here to explain what feminism really is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryusei the Morning Star Posted January 21, 2017 Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 I'm so glad that a man is here to explain what feminism really is.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susan_B._Anthony I had no idea she was a man! Edit: What's up with a man accusing me of mansplaining, then telling me what feminism is and isn't? That just seems like it'd have a high irony content Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
senorchavez Posted January 21, 2017 Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 I'm so glad that a man is here to explain what feminism really is. Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Greek philosophers by the likes of Plato lay the groundwork for feminism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wahrheit Posted January 21, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susan_B._Anthony I had no idea she was a man! Edit: What's up with a man accusing me of mansplaining, then telling me what feminism is and isn't? That just seems like it'd have a high irony contentYou're telling women what feminism is, I'm calling you on it. Logically consistent. You're right, Susan B. Anthony doesn't conform to today's standards because standards have changed over time. She was progressive in some ways, not in others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~ P O L A R I S ~ Posted January 21, 2017 Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 The idea that Trump is less likely to start a nuclear war than Clinton is absolutely hilarious. This is both smug and fatalistic at the same time. I'm sorry, no Bernie voter should support Trump. *Shrug*. If no Bernie supporters had come over to Trump, you'd have President HRC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerion Brightflame Posted January 21, 2017 Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 I don't fully understand how it's a woman's right to choose, when half the lives exterminated though that choice are woman? Maybe the march should have been clear that it was protecting some right of some women? If the goal is to protect woman's right, it's perfectly reasonable to protect the life of all women before going to protect the liberty of some women. Flame's idea gives too many opportunities for firms to hide loss on the people. The VA should show you, how Single Payer if not showered with money, will slowly push costs back on the people As I've said before, by banning abortion one tells women they do not have complete control over there own bodies in the same respect as a man does. It's commonly why pro-choice is considered to be pro-choice, not pro abortion. They say that the mothers rights to choose outweighs the moral intracasies of whether or not the fetus is alive or not. Because a medical line of life is hard to draw, and thus irregardless one can't assign the title of murder to it (Because there will always be a point in conception where the feutus is not 'alive', even if that period becomes tiny. Then it becomes a case of how the mother decides to view the act. Again, complicated issue because there's a f***tonne of conflicting rights and legality involved with it. But the common pro-choice definition is that there is a point where the mother's rights outweigh the any and all rights (Including the right to life) of the child (It's the basis of Roe vs Wade), and that she should then have the right to decide what happens to her body during that period. Which is why abortion is a women's rights issue, because outright banning it is saying that Women have less rights than men when it comes to control of there body. (And before you say it, yes, there is a period of time where a feutus has less rights than a woman, because there is a period of time where it technically isn't 'alive' in the legal sense and thus it has no rights). But since this isn't an abortion thread, this is all I am going to say on the topic. I know you disagree that the feutus's rights are irrelevant, but it's just happens to be the basis of the pro-choice stance, and the basis of the current legality of the issue. Also that Saudi argument is bullshit. You can't use 'Oh others have it worse' as justification to prevent people from complaining about the way things are now. Suffering, and hardship are relative. If we decided to say 'You can only campaign about something if you are compaining about the literal worst case that it is' then there would never be protests in Western society. Even if Women have far more Rights than they do in SA, one cannot allow the rights they do have here to be easily infringed upon. Feminism can fight for both differing causes without being hypocritical. I also think that the excuse of 'Political Correctness' is used to often. Like it both shouldn't be used to restrict and infringe upon free speech and ones right to hold ones own opinion, but being 'anti PC' also shouldn't be a justification to be an arse. Society functions much bettter when people aren't arses to each other just because they can be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryusei the Morning Star Posted January 21, 2017 Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 This is both smug and fatalistic at the same time. *Shrug*. If no Bernie supporters had come over to Trump, you'd have President HRC. Most Trump democrats are like me, Obama to Trump voters, who voted more economic issues. I just cannot square how someone can be whole sale behind some of Bernie's polices and come over to Trump. Then again I understand there is some motive to spite Hillary and the DNC. Just not what I would have expected. Maybe I should rephrase, anyone a fan of Bernie's social views, iirc you were also a fan of Stein, voting Trump is a bit confusing to me, but I'm not gonna complain about support Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryusei the Morning Star Posted January 21, 2017 Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 I'm asking where were these women when the need to call out SA came around. It comes down to if you consider the fetus an organism that should have the same rights as humans. I think so, and certainly, a lot of feminists do and did too. You can disagree as is your right. Also men cannot bare children, so not sure what an abortion restriction or ban would be in terms of infringing upon rights men have the women now wouldn't. I'm actually happy though, the more they alienate, the more my side can pull the rug out form under them. Purity wars never end well Stein is garbage. Regardless, stop derailing my thread. Can you explain what rail this thread should follow then? Cause I assumed (maybe wrongly) that it was to discuss the march. And I raised reason as to why I think the march is disconnected from the message they're trying to push. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wahrheit Posted January 21, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 Most Trump democrats are like me, Obama to Trump voters, who voted more economic issues. I just cannot square how someone can be whole sale behind some of Bernie's polices and come over to Trump. Then again I understand there is some motive to spite Hillary and the DNC. Just not what I would have expected. Maybe I should rephrase, anyone a fan of Bernie's social views, iirc you were also a fan of Stein, voting Trump is a bit confusing to me, but I'm not gonna complain about supportStein is garbage. Regardless, stop derailing my thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryusei the Morning Star Posted January 21, 2017 Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 You're telling women what feminism is, I'm calling you on it. Logically consistent. You're right, Susan B. Anthony doesn't conform to today's standards because standards have changed over time. She was progressive in some ways, not in others.Isn't is possible that she was a feminist, and what we have today isn't though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerion Brightflame Posted January 21, 2017 Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 But why, if by your logic foriegn protests don't mean a thing because the government of another nation doesn't need to please those in other nations, would it matter if these women protested SA or not? In reality I would imagine a lot of them didn't protest SA, but I would wager that's because it's hard to imagine what life in SA is like for a woman unless you are actually there or have been there. Thus it's hard to build the same kind of emotional response that leads to passion as the supposed threat that Trump poses to there rights. It's unfortunate, but understandable as a motivation. Like, you can be aware that something, somewhere is a shithole, but when something nearby you becomes worse and worse it feels bigger and bigger. Same reason that say Terrorist attacks in western nations seem to matter more to those in Western nations than the hundreds who die weekly in the Middle East to it. One evokes a more palable emotional response. I don't think it makes them hypocritcal in any case, nor does it devalue what they are fighting for today. One can campaign for an issue without also having to campaign for the most extreme version of that issue globally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~ P O L A R I S ~ Posted January 21, 2017 Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 I believe you're referring to a test we took that said I was particularly in agreement with Stein's policies, but Stein is irrelevant and if she were to be more relevant she'd have had to have made compromises. Constantly suggesting that anything but the tightest association to the OP is derailing is silly and no less derailing. This is all within the context of an anti-Trump women's march. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wahrheit Posted January 21, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 Isn't is possible that she was a feminist, and what we have today isn't though? the result of change over time?You were so close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad Posted January 21, 2017 Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 I'm sorry, no Bernie voter should support Trump. They are completely different. Bernie has lost his mind on the social scale. There small agreements on Trade should not push you from Bernie to Trump, Clinton, in all fairness, said much of the same. People disgusted about how the democratic party has left them, are the better fit for Trump democrats [spoiler=Graphic, awaiting moderator approval or denial] This is a 8 week old fetus, the likes of which a heartbeat bill (that I support) would protect. Doesn't seem like a clump of cells to me "In the spirit of democracy and honoring the champions of human rights, dignity, and justice" I've read it, and this sounds hypocritical to me, what justice or dignity is there to death without fair trial I'm removing this. Your point was fine, but the image isn't. Also, that's from a miscarriage. Clarity and context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryusei the Morning Star Posted January 21, 2017 Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 I'm removing this. Your point was fine, but the image isn't. Also, that's from a miscarriage. Clarity and context.I was attempting to point out that "a clump of cells" seems a bit cold. I felt it was worth it to make that point. I'm aware, it's still an 8 week fetus http://nytlive.nytimes.com/womenintheworld/2017/01/20/billionaire-george-soros-has-ties-to-more-than-50-partners-of-the-womens-march-on-washington/ "Billionaire George Soros has ties to more than 50 ‘partners’ of the Women’s March on Washington What is the link between one of Hillary Clinton’s largest donors and the Women’s March? Turns out, it’s quite significant" Is anyone shocked? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerion Brightflame Posted January 21, 2017 Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 And that matters... why? This is a protest that's probably gotten millions of people globally involved. Even if it was organised in the first place by people who are anti-Trump under the pretense of being a 'woman's rights march', when you get millions of people involved that pretense probably matters more the initial intention. And I say millions because I underestimate the scope earlier when I said the London one was the largest outside of DC. The DC one had a rumoured 400-500,000 people involed. The one in Chicago had to cancel the march because there were so many people the entire route was blocked up (And is in the suspected region of around 250,000), 130,000 in Boston, Madison Wisconson some 75,000. When you have that many people involved, the initial itentions are irrelevant. They all decided to go out to protest for the protection of the rights of women today. They have made the protest about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad Posted January 21, 2017 Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 There's a march in Korea as well iirc. It's peaceful so far. If it stays that way, good things could come from this. So I hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryusei the Morning Star Posted January 21, 2017 Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 So now the ends justify the means Tom? It seems you vacillate a lot on the validity of that claim? It doesn't matter really, because I support the rights of people to gather, just another reason why it's a partisan gathering rather than anything really feminist There will be no Women's March to White House. Crowd is too big. Homeland security officials say crowd on Mall will soon be told. D.C. Mayor Bowser's office says decision was made by organizers. People can walk toward Ellipse, but no formal march. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halubaris Maphotika Posted January 21, 2017 Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 I'm so glad that a man is here to explain what feminism really is.And you know? You're a male to. Knock it off with your identity politics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wahrheit Posted January 21, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 I was attempting to point out that "a clump of cells" seems a bit cold. I felt it was worth it to make that point. I'm aware, it's still an 8 week fetus http://nytlive.nytimes.com/womenintheworld/2017/01/20/billionaire-george-soros-has-ties-to-more-than-50-partners-of-the-womens-march-on-washington/ "Billionaire George Soros has ties to more than 50 ‘partners’ of the Women’s March on Washington What is the link between one of Hillary Clinton’s largest donors and the Women’s March? Turns out, it’s quite significant""Person with money donates to thing he cares about" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryusei the Morning Star Posted January 21, 2017 Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 Nazi Accomplice fund woman's march is another way to describe it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerion Brightflame Posted January 21, 2017 Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 So now the ends justify the means Tom? It seems you vacillate a lot on the validity of that claim? It doesn't matter really, because I support the rights of people to gather, just another reason why it's a partisan gathering rather than anything really feminist That's not what I'm saying? I said quite clearly that what the organisers of the march intended when they plan this, and what the march has become about can be different things. In this case it appears that the march was planned as an 'anti-Trump march' but it's resonated globally and become a women's rights march. I maintain that due process matters for an awful lot of things which is where I assume you think I am wavering on the issue of 'The Ends justify the means', but I also disagree that that is relevant to that specific point. I'll agree that there is an element of partisanship involved with this protest, but in the same vein there's legitimacy as to why these people are fearful that the rights of women may be endangered by the Trump adminstration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryusei the Morning Star Posted January 21, 2017 Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 That's not what I'm saying? I said quite clearly that what the organisers of the march intended when they plan this, and what the march has become about can be different things. In this case it appears that the march was planned as an 'anti-Trump march' but it's resonated globally and become a women's rights march. I maintain that due process matters for an awful lot of things which is where I assume you think I am wavering on the issue of 'The Ends justify the means', but I also disagree that that is relevant to that specific point. I'll agree that there is an element of partisanship involved with this protest, but in the same vein there's legitimacy as to why these people are fearful that the rights of women may be endangered by the Trump adminstration.With all the fuss the left throws about Koch money (rightfully), I just find it ironic that we can now accept money from a Nazi accomplice who sold out his fellow jews to the 3rd Reich and it's still not a tainted march Texted mom and asked if she was planning to march on the Iranian embassy; it's near her current location. Her response of "why would I?" tells me everything I need to know about this sham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerion Brightflame Posted January 21, 2017 Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 With all the fuss the left throws about Koch money (rightfully), I just find it ironic that we can now accept money from a Nazi accomplice who sold out his fellow jews to the 3rd Reich and it's still not a tainted march Texted mom and asked if she was planning to march on the Iranian embassy; it's near her current location. Her response of "why would I?" tells me everything I need to know about this sham Elaboration? Because I've not read anything about Nazi accomplaice funding (Unless that's the millionare you posted earlier). If it's the case, that's disapointting for sure, but I will maintain it doesn't cheapen the entire movement, given that the majority of people involved will be non the wiser about the funding. You can argue that's not an excuse and that's fine. I will disagree with it because there are still legitimate concerns that can and are being protested here. And I still don't see why they cheapens the march, given it's the exact same point as the SA one from earlier. Why does it make the actions of several million people a sham if they aren't protesting every possible injustice to women at once? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryusei the Morning Star Posted January 21, 2017 Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 Elaboration? Because I've not read anything about Nazi accomplaice funding (Unless that's the millionare you posted earlier). If it's the case, that's disapointting for sure, but I will maintain it doesn't cheapen the entire movement, given that the majority of people involved will be non the wiser about the funding. You can argue that's not an excuse and that's fine. I will disagree with it because there are still legitimate concerns that can and are being protested here. And I still don't see why they cheapens the march, given it's the exact same point as the SA one from earlier. Why does it make the actions of several million people a sham if they aren't protesting every possible injustice to women at once?Koch brothers are billionaires republicans who are often the target of the left due to their large donor status. Remove the money out of politics type deal. The bugger lost a billion dollars this election, it's just a sad sad attempt to piss off Pres. Trump, joke is, President Trump is in Virginia, not DC Because I'm not asking her to fly to SA and protest, the Iranian embassy is literally right next door and it's not important enough for her to make clear that should not be tolerated. It's an anti-Trump march, not a "feminist" one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.