Moderation/Rule/Site Concerns and Suggestions

[Phantom Roxas]

Roxas: Surprised? Well I advocated considering this before and, while he's probably the LEAST of the candidates he also should be considered simply due to not adding as much as others. No offense dude I might be wrong obviously I don't see all.

It's fine, no offense taken. Sombra raised similar concerns, so I'm inclined to agree here as well.

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

Stating that RAEG suffered from it and Roxas suffered damage to his reputation is evoking hostility? His relationship with the site has been strained since, so...

 

It's overstated rhetoric that implies Roxas is some sort of disgraced moderator with a "damaged reputation" for making a perfectly valid decision. Especially when there isn't anything resembling concrete listed standards in how the rules are enforced and it therefore can only be dealt with arbitrarily. 

 

I wouldn't know whether "Roxas has a strained relationship with the site", but if he does then that's all the more reason why we should make him feel welcome. 

[bury the year]

I can't trust someone to moderate when they don't even bother to be around.

Agree with this. I stepped down from the staff team due to my own inactivity, and Hydra was removed from staff on my bequest for the same reason. I hope that this could set a precedent at least.

 

EDIT: To those who say "returning previously-inactive mods don't cause issues," I have counterevidence. When the whole Advanced Clause deal was being implemented in RP for the first time, Sushi tried coming in and removing the threads/generally shutting down the process - while he was a staff member for the section, he had been inactive for so long that two other rounds of mods had been implemented in his absence (Umbra and myself). Shadius and I had to assert authority to prevent him from any... sabotage. So yeah, it does happen.

[Blake]

It's overstated rhetoric that implies Roxas is some sort of disgraced moderator with a "damaged reputation" for making a perfectly valid decision. Especially when there isn't anything resembling concrete listed standards in how the rules are enforced and it therefore can only be dealt with arbitrarily. 

 

I wouldn't know whether "Roxas has a strained relationship with the site", but if he does then that's all the more reason why we should make him feel welcome.

/7/ Warning Points out of the blue is not reasonable by any standard, and he himself admitted to it being a kneejerk overreaction due to his personal feelings on the subject.

 

He does have a damaged reputation. The members made a running gag of it, saying "7 warning points" whenever someone says KYS or stfu or things to that effect, though KYS is most common.

 

He can work to fix it, as there has been no witch hunt, but it's certainly not on the memberbase to make him feel welcome alone. It's on him to make moves to repair his actions, as every moderator who has made less than perfect decisions has had to do, myself included.

 

 

Agree with this. I stepped down from the staff team due to my own inactivity, and Hydra was removed as staff on my bequest for the same reason. I hope that this could set a precedent at least.

Are you George Washingthom?

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

/7/ Warning Points out of the blue is not reasonable by any standard, and he himself admitted to it being a kneejerk overreaction due to his personal feelings on the subject.

 

Is "kill yourself" a reasonable thing to say that we should protect? 

 

Hi I'm Dad didn't think so, at one point. He took it "very seriously". 

 

From constant flaming, spamming, and even encouraging possibly unstable members to kill themselves (we take this very seriously), it really is a lot.

 

I think a 7-point warning is a great way to demonstrate how seriously it's taken.

Evidently you don't take it very seriously though. That's your prerogative. But how is that Roxas' fault? From '07-'11 anyone who said "kill yourself" here would almost certainly have been banned.   

 

http://forum.yugiohc...lating-suicide/

 

Saint Fluffalas shard kys 

Today, 06:31 PM

[Phantom Roxas]

My idea of avoiding to repeat certain situations has been trying to scale back on punishments, but even giving a single warning point caused a stir earlier in this thread, though that does lead to an unfortunate binary: When I'm active, I go too far over the line, but when I do something like merging threads, it's something too insignificant, so it gives the impression that I'm not really active. Though that's just my guess of the situation, so if people think I'm doing nothing, I can't fault them for that.

 

I do feel that there's something like a "witch hunt", though that's not what I would call it, since it's really only a small handful members who are pursuing it.

[Blake]

Is "kill yourself" a reasonable thing to say that we should protect? 

 

Hi I'm Dad didn't think so, at one point. He took it "very seriously". 

 

 

I think a 7-point warning is a great way to demonstrate how seriously it's taken.

Evidently you don't take it very seriously though. That's your prerogative. But how is that Roxas' fault? From '07-'11 anyone who said "kill yourself" here would almost certainly have been banned.   

 

http://forum.yugiohc...lating-suicide/

 

[golihoot.jpg]

Saint Fluffalas shard kys 

Today, 06:31 PM

Times have changed. As Rinne's example shows, different times have different ways of handling things. Not to mention that "kill yourself" isn't the same as "kys", which is a phrase used in a joking context by pretty much the entire internet. Even what you chose as an example was me messing with a friend.

Nevermind that you're wrong about that, considering a rather prominent member actively tried to get people to kill themselves, yet they received no comeuppance, and the ones who were receiving the worst of the treatment never got more support than "yo knock it off".

 

Dad has lightened up, at that. He started more strict when he first came into the role, which is normal, and he's begun to settle into his place. He's rather beloved by the members to boot, from what I've seen.

 

I'm not saying Roxas needs to go now. I'm saying that leaving him did end in an, admittedly mild, issue occuring.

 

This has completely changed from "Why would we demote inactive mods?" which was your point, to an attempt to defend Roxas' actions in a rather hostile way. You've gotten your answer and chosen to continue onto an unrelated tangent, while ignoring Rinne's example that served as further evidence of the problem of keeping mods on the team once they go inactive, which was still stated to be when they're inactive for extended periods of time.

 

We have had at least 3 events where such has occurred, with possibly more that I'm unaware of/forgotten the full details of, with Roxas being by far the most mild, simply the most recent.

 

Everything else has become semantics, so if you have nothing to add after the evidence presented, please drop the topic.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

 

Is "kill yourself" a reasonable thing to say that we should protect? 

 

Hi I'm Dad didn't think so, at one point. He took it "very seriously". 

 

 

I think a 7-point warning is a great way to demonstrate how seriously it's taken.

Evidently you don't take it very seriously though. That's your prerogative. But how is that Roxas' fault? From '07-'11 anyone who said "kill yourself" here would almost certainly have been banned.   

 

http://forum.yugiohc...lating-suicide/

 

Saint Fluffalas shard kys 

Today, 06:31 PM

 

The problem is not that 7wp were delivered. It's that a mod is foraying into uncharted waters, and handing out warning pts en mass on a tone deaf basis. I believe I put out the exactly what [ffs] said to Raeg, and it was clearly troll/humor. 

 

There's a problem when a mod is so detached from reality and also is the judge jury and executioner. 

 

To roxas I query, assuming you actually believed an attempt to promote suicide was present, why did you not go to the other mods, and if you did, what was the reasoning behind them agreeing. I find it hard to beleive Black or Evil would have been so gullible to an obvious case of trolling.

 

Raeg was not in a mentally unstable position, Raeg and [FFS] are friends. They were both part of that group

 

It was entirely out of line for roxas to do no research or I assume consultation before dealing out such a harsh punishment. This again raises my concern how zealous he may be in his personal views a justice warrior conflating with his duty as a impartial justice 

[Blake]

The problem is not that 7wp were delivered. It's that a mod is foraying into uncharted waters, and handing out warning pts en mass on a tone deaf basis. I believe I put out the exactly what [ffs] said to Raeg, and it was clearly troll/humor. 

 

There's a problem when a mod is so detached from reality and also is the judge jury and executioner. 

 

To roxas I query, assuming you actually believed an attempt to promote suicide was present, why did you not go to the other mods, and if you did, what was the reasoning behind them agreeing. I find it hard to beleive Black or Evil would have been so gullible to an obvious case of trolling

Tone it down just a little, boyo.

[Aix]

The problem is not that 7wp were delivered. It's that a mod is foraying into uncharted waters, and handing out warning pts en mass on a tone deaf basis. I believe I put out the exactly what [ffs] said to Raeg, and it was clearly troll/humor. 

 

There's a problem when a mod is so detached from reality and also is the judge jury and executioner. 

 

To roxas I query, assuming you actually believed an attempt to promote suicide was present, why did you not go to the other mods, and if you did, what was the reasoning behind them agreeing. I find it hard to beleive Black or Evil would have been so gullible to an obvious case of trolling.

 

Raeg was not in a mentally unstable position, Raeg and [FFS] are friends. They were both part of that group

 

It was entirely out of line for roxas to do no research or I assume consultation before dealing out such a harsh punishment. This again raises my concern how zealous he may be in his personal views a justice warrior conflating with his duty as a impartial justice 

When has it been the procedure ever to first consult another mod? It only happens if a mod is really unsure.

[Blake]

Winter ffs stop editing posts after people reply to you and knock it off with the hostility

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

When has it been the procedure ever to first consult another mod? It only happens if a mod is really unsure.

When someone is encouraging suicide?  Pretty sure that's a federal felony. If Roxas was genuine in his desire to stand up for Raeg in the onslaught of a vicious attack (which the large WP sum implies) he should have inquired with the mod team on further actions against said redacted member.

 

To me this implies a crass and freewelding attitude that is one too willing to dish out punishments, but doesn't fully understand what the actions said punishments were handed out for.

 

When I was being insensitive to Quasar, Dad made sure to let me know the entire mod team was displeased with my actions. Why can a so called senior mod not have the same level of common sense as one elected a mere year ago?

Winter ffs stop editing posts after people reply to you and knock it off with the hostility

Just trying to point out to Pol that there's an inconsistency in his defense. Either Roxas took it seriously (it's own problem) and didn't take the needed actions for that conclusion, or he was being cavalier about the matter. Also a big problem. There is no silver lining here. Don't have much more to say on the matter though

[Dad]

When has it been the procedure ever to first consult another mod? It only happens if a mod is really unsure.

 

Personally I do it a lot.  I'm a new moderator and frankly, this is challenging.  I admit I'm super lenient (debates recently) and at times, super strict.  Finding the balance where you're always, totally comfortable with your decisions as a moderator is difficult.  But I agree, it's not something we do all the time.  If we waited to consult with our peers for every case, problems would pile up.

[Phantom Roxas]

Either Roxas took it seriously (it's own problem) and didn't take the needed actions for that conclusion

I didn't think it was an appropriate comment, regardless of how serious or not it was. You've told me that I shouldn't stick my nose in where it doesn't belong, but a moderator is meant to get involved. There are plenty of reports I leave alone because I believe other moderators would handle them better.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

I didn't think it was an appropriate comment, regardless of how serious or not it was. You've told me that I shouldn't stick my nose in where it doesn't belong, but a moderator is meant to get involved. There are plenty of reports I leave alone because I believe other moderators would handle them better.

And in that case, I will point you to my original statement that a mod incapable understanding sarcasm or trolling is dangerous, and amend said statement that a mod who understands what sarcasm is, and still feels the need to harshly punish it, is even more dangerous than a personal bliss. The latter shows you attempting to push your views on speech on the userbase instead of what the rules would demand. Are you sure you wanna go this route over the ignorance one?

[Blake]

Small update, but Dad is going to be my fellow mediator of this thread, to help keep decisions made objective and to keep the thread moving smoothly and with minimal hostility as often as possible.

 

Reminder that this is a neutral ground, so long as hostility is minimized. Things you say here cannot be used against you in a court of law mods, barring outright admitting to an offense.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Small update, but Dad is going to be my fellow mediator of this thread, to help keep decisions made objective and to keep the thread moving smoothly and with minimal hostility as often as possible.

 

Reminder that this is a neutral ground, so long as hostility is minimized. Things you say here cannot be used against you in a court of law mods, barring outright admitting to an offense.

On a different topic, can someone look into the Mako problem? I wanna invite him to a PM, but since the PM has already started, and his name is too small, he's too far down the list to add to a PM

[Blake]

On a different topic, can someone look into the Mako problem? I wanna invite him to a PM, but since the PM has already started, and his name is too small, he's too far down the list to add to a PM

winter this is not what the quote function is for

 

I don't really know of a workaround for that. Have you tried quotes...? I don't think so, as I've had a similar issue with LE KANJI NAMES, but you'd have to ask Draco/Evilfusion, most likely.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

 

For the record this is what I mean

 

"Makone" is also the last user it lets me choose, and there's not scroll button, I'll try the quote feature, was not aware it existed.

 

Yeah sorry, I've asked before and nobody answered me, so wanted to get y'all's attention 

[Aix]

 

For the record this is what I mean

 

"Makone" is also the last user it lets me choose, and there's not scroll button, I'll try the quote feature, was not aware it existed.

 

Yeah sorry, I've asked before and nobody answered me, so wanted to get y'all's attention 

Pretty sure you don't need to chose, just write his name correctly.

[Dad]

 

For the record this is what I mean

 

"Makone" is also the last user it lets me choose, and there's not scroll button, I'll try the quote feature, was not aware it existed.

 

Yeah sorry, I've asked before and nobody answered me, so wanted to get y'all's attention 

 

I've done this in the Moderator Control Panel.  Try searching Mako's name by email address.  That may suffice to locate his profile directly.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Pretty sure you don't need to chose, just write his name correctly.

Tried that after "Mako" didn't get any results

 

No dice

I've done this in the Moderator Control Panel.  Try searching Mako's name by email address.  That may suffice to locate his profile directly.

Not entirely sure what you mean here. You want me to put Mako's email where? Cause it's not turning up in the search bar

 

@Black

 

About the Weeberinos. I've not tried that, so wouldn't know. However, Jack's name started with numbers yesterday till he changed it, and the PM system kept assuring me he didn't exist. So there might be a systematic problem

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

The problem is not that 7wp were delivered. It's that a mod is foraying into uncharted waters

 

Every now and then I'm reminded that you haven't been here very long, but I assure you that 7WP is not "uncharted waters". "BADASS LIKE DARTH REVAN, MY WARNING POINTS ARE 7 I'M ON MOD QUEUE REVIEW AND IT FEELS LIKE HEAVEN" is forever my status, after all. 

 

The problem is not that 7wp were delivered. It's that a mod is foraying into uncharted waters, and handing out warning pts en mass on a tone deaf basis. I believe I put out the exactly what [ffs] said to Raeg, and it was clearly troll/humor. 

 

There's a problem when a mod is so detached from reality and also is the judge jury and executioner. 

 

It is not a mod's job to protect trolling and/or the phrase "kys". Warning points in general shouldn't cause mass hysteria, they expire soon enough and tend to be assessed for easily avoidable line-stepping behaviour. If they aren't then that's a problem in of itself. It's easy to avoid using the phrase "kys", which as far as memes go was never particularly funny and is by now so played out that anyone using it should be punished for being corny, if nothing else.  

 

Sure, a verbal "for future reference: "kys" will result in 3 WP's" would be preferable to an instant 7 points, but 7 points makes more sense than a mob of raging trolls getting a mod lynched every time a warning happens. Take your WP's like a man. Mine are 4 right now, arbitrarily but reasonably given. I would prefer if there were set standards, but I'd rather we had arbitrary mods who were sincere than troll mods.  

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Every now and then I'm reminded that you haven't been here very long, but I assure you that 7WP is not "uncharted waters". "BADASS LIKE DARTH REVAN, MY WARNING POINTS ARE 7 I'M ON MOD QUEUE REVIEW AND IT FEELS LIKE HEAVEN" is forever my status, after all. 

 

 

It is not a mod's job to protect trolling and/or the phrase "kys". Warning points in general shouldn't cause mass hysteria, they expire soon enough and tend to be assessed for easily avoidable behaviour. If they aren't then that's a problem in of itself. It's easy to avoid using the phrase "kys", which as far as memes go was never particularly funny and is by now so played out that anyone using it should be punished for being corny, if nothing else.  

 

Sure, a verbal "for future reference: "kys" will result in 3 WP's" would be preferable to an instant 7 points, but 7 points makes more sense than a mob of raging trolls getting a mod lynched every time a warning happens. Take your WP's like a man. Mine are 4 right now, arbitrarily but reasonably given. I would prefer if there were set standards, but I'd rather we had arbitrary mods who were sincere than troll mods.  

I've said most of what I needed to. But 7 is in dangerous territory to a perma ban and mod queue range. What if Enguin already had 5 wp? Would his accidental perma be ok too?

 

This is not an isolated incident with the mod in question. I don't think there's a single mod who HASN'T warned me. One even perma-banned me, why do you think only one bothers me? Systemic Rot is a bigger problem than a one time deal.

 

In keeping to black's request, can we discuss this in the PM 

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

10 points isn't a perma. Now I understand why you feel so terrified by them. For the record:

 

7 warning points - You will be put on mod queue for a week and a mod must approve of your posts and content before it is displayed on the forum.

10 warning points - You will be prevented from creating content, including posting replies and threads as well as statuses and comments, for two days.
20 warning points - You will be banned for a week.
999 warning points - You will be permanently banned.

 

Also, warning points expire, generally between 1-2 weeks.