Moderation/Rule/Site Concerns and Suggestions

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Kate and Dae told Sunn to do it though...also Thar did come back respectfully during the Halloween event and was banned again. While you may hold that opinion, I doubt many others on the mod team do at the moment

[Slinky]

You get more knee-jerk reactions and more upset people if you hide something and its found out, than if you just told them up front. I think I used different wording on Page 2.

 

Quote from second page:

 

 

Normally, that can be perceived as the person lying about their identity. And the longer you hide it, the more outraged people will be, whereas the conflict would normally be non-existent if you were just up front about it from the start.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

I literally just said that I regret that my time here has given me clout, so I wouldn't want to use that to push my "agenda".

 

There was more to the transgender topic than me slapping with you warning points for what I perceived to be hate speech. Other moderators have discussed their disagreement with me on that issue, and I found their points to be fine. My admission was because Polar Ice and CowCow both called me out when I was going too far, and I trust both of their judgments regarding my behavior.

 

You say "users" in the plural. I can think of a few other users that I've certainly been aggressive towards, but I don't have any "agenda" that includes trying to get them banned. That said, it has to go both ways. If I want to see someone banned, then usually that person must have done something to warrant that interest. I can accept criticism for my biases. What I don't agree with is someone passing the entirety of the guilt onto me.

And I said earlier, that I don't know what you intentions are, but your actions have been far beyond the pale in both being tone def and using your clout however benevolently

 

I know that other mods discussed it with you, which is why the pts were removed I understand, but that doesn't excuse the fact you're trigger happy enough to have needed EF to step in. Also your perception doesn't matter. There were two trans people in that topic who agreed with the claim and the DSM  did too. Your perception had no basis in reality.

 

Not passing the entirety of the guilt onto you. There are better ways for you to express your displeasure with my, then factual, assessment, instead of resorting to warning points and self acclaimed bullying. Those are not actions befitting a mod who is supposed to be above the fray

 

Edit: I'll even admit that there were maybe grounds for warning points, but "Hate Speech" as the reason why is ridiculous, and does demonstrate that you conflate your personal views with your modship duties and throw your clout to do so, even if not intentional.

 

I've noticed you make statuses everyone in a while saying you regret how you've not done this or that as a mod. Nice sentiment, but you never change. After making them.

 

Striker was demodded for a lot less than you, if that's not clout, what is?

[Blake]

Kate and Dae told Sunn to do it though...also Thar did come back respectfully during the Halloween event and was banned again. While you may hold that opinion, I doubt many others on the mod team do at the moment

Tongue-in-cheek. Which, admittedly, is something I failed with recently on a smaller scale, but.

 

Thar admitted who he was and surrendered himself to a ban.

 

 

You get more knee-jerk reactions and more upset people if you hide something and its found out, than if you just told them up front. I think I used different wording on Page 2.

 

Quote from second page:

Yes, I was agreeing with that. I had no party to the events with Sunn's return, other than the aftermath.

[Phantom Roxas]

And I said earlier, that I don't know what you intentions are, but your actions have been far beyond the pale in both being tone def and using your clout however benevolently

 

I know that other mods discussed it with you, which is why the pts were removed I understand, but that doesn't excuse the fact you're trigger happy enough to have needed EF to step in. Also your perception doesn't matter. There were two trans people in that topic who agreed with the claim and the DSM  did too. Your perception had no basis in reality.

 

Not passing the entirety of the guilt onto you. There are better ways for you to express your displeasure with my, then factual, assessment, instead of resorting to warning points and self acclaimed bullying. Those are not actions befitting a mod who is supposed to be above the fray

 

Edit: I'll even admit that there were maybe grounds for warning points, but "Hate Speech" as the reason why is ridiculous, and does demonstrate that you conflate your personal views with your modship duties and throw your clout to do so, even if not intentional.

 

I've noticed you make statuses everyone in a while saying you regret how you've not done this or that as a mod. Nice sentiment, but you never change. After making them.

 

Striker was demodded for a lot less than you, if that's not clout, what is?

 

It had a basis in the report that was filed, which I responded to. People have concerns, so I try to address the reports while keeping those concerns in mind.

 

I'm referring to more than just a single, standalone incident. My criticisms of your behavior accumulated throughout numerous threads in the Debates section, especially during the election, during which you were aggressive to several other members, to the point that the team was getting tired of how often you got reported. That's not on my "agenda", that's on you repeatedly causing problems that we have to clean up. You're also conflating two separate topics. While they were both about transgender people, the single warning point I gave you was for a post in this thread, and I admitted to bullying you in this thread because of your history of mocking people even when they have genuine reasons to be upset.

 

Our arguments basically boil down to this: You want me demodded, I want you gone. We're both just making pleas for the other to be punished. You know what other duties a moderator include? Recognizing members who disrupt the community. You're not asking me to be objective; you're asking me to turn a blind eye to your behavior.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

It did not have basis. It is treated as a mental illness. If that upsets someone, your job is to point out then accepted view point; point it out to them instead of getting all uppity with me cause I didn't cuddle them.

 

As for the election, isn't that common sense?

 

I'd assume that most of them were from Hillary supporters, who are in greater number than Trump voters on this forum. The natural conclusion is that a fair number of reports are filed upon me. The question now is how many of those were valid? Cause from what I get from Black's critique of report abuse, people are getting trigger happy with them.

 

When Trump voters such as Dad have something to criticize me upon, I usually am in the flaw. Can you assure me there were in goodfaith?

 

At the end of the day, I don't entirely get the premise of reports (why I don't use them in debates), you're going into a section where it's upfront and clear the users will be aggressively arguing their view point. If you get all touchy/feely about fact, it's not my fault. But isn't that what I was doing [i being roxas] in the trans topic you may ask. Yes.

 

But see I'm not a mod, you are. You're not supposed to come down to my level.

 

Not conflating, just saying you don't change. First you hand out wp's to fit your own view instead of facts, then you go about getting your own hands dirty when you can't do that any further. 

 

I want you demodded because you've long since crossed lines that have gotten other demodded in the past, and your seniority is the only thing keeping you around. It's not just me, (and in fairness, it's not just you who want me gone) who thinks you need out

[Phantom Roxas]

I doubt that any support for Hillary would change the context or intent of the reports too much. People were getting trigger happy, but there were also reports against you that were valid.

 

Even though Debates is meant to be a place where discussions are expected to get heated, all bets are not off. The goal of Debates is try and be respectful of other people's opinions, even if they are different from yours, a goal that you repeatedly failed to meet.

 

You're right, I shouldn't come down to your level, but it says it right there, it's your level. You set the precedent that needed to be avoided.

 

I really don't think you have any place to say that I don't change when you have to lie about me rallying votes in the Waifu Wars of all things. If you have to make things up just to blame me for them, it makes it harder to believe you when there are legitimate criticisms to be made about me. It just makes it look like I'm your scapegoat.

 

People are welcome to want me to step down, but I'm not talking about those other people. I'm talking about your own reasons for wanting me to step down, and I'm not really convinced by your reasons.

[Tourmaline]

In terms of waifu wars Winter did try to have me vote for his character.

 

[Yui]

I have one more comment regarding YCM. It's minor to the point that I didn't even want to include it in my initial post but Black wants people to post here so imma do it.

 

Can we change the color of the spoiler backdrop and maybe the textbox on 2edgy just slightly? Like it's a nice color don't get me wrong, but some text colors are pretty hard to read in spoilers, and others are hard to see in the textbox when typing up your posts. As with most anything I can securely say about the site, I can only speak on how this affects things from the standpoint of RP, but in RP - where colored text is a given in your textbox and where colored text quotes are in basically every app's spoiler - some colors being hard to read can be a bit detrimental.

[spoiler=I've put all the colors together here for reference, view this in 2edgy]Black, Fire Brick, Red, Light Salmon, Lavender Blush

Maroon, Brown, Dark Orange, Orange, Antique White

Saddle Brown, Golden Rod, Gold, Yellow, Light Yellow

Dark Slate Gray, Dark Green, Green, Lime, Honeydew

Teal, Turquoise, Cyan, Pale Turquoise, Azure

Navy, Medium Blue, Blue, Light Blue, Alice Blue

Indigo, Purple, Violet, Plum, Lavender

Dark Gray, Gray, Dim Gray, Light Gray, White

 

Colors that are hard to see in the text editor: Medium Blue, Blue, arguably Indigo

Colors that are hard to see in spoilers: Pretty much just Indigo, and even then your mileage may vary.

Obviously can't see black on the black background but all the other colors are perfectly readable against it.

 

I did say it was minor as hell, and it's honestly real easy to work around by just highlighting sheet and probably not worth the effort of changing 2edgy's sheet for, but I thought I'd bring it up since Black's asking for posts ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Delibirb]

I wouldn't mind some way of knowing what new policies or decisions the mod team was even discussing at any and all given times. Give people some opportunity to ease in before major or minor changes so there's less shock and, by extension, less backlash on the mod team. People would obviously be able to discuss across the forum what they think about these unfinished policies or decisions, but the mod team wouldn't necessarily have to justify it, because it wouldn't be set in stone yet, They could take the forum's temperature, in a sense. Not necessarily to decide whether to go through with said change, but how and how quickly.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

In terms of waifu wars Winter did try to have me vote for his character.

Old news, but if you want to launch a corruption investigation into the waifu war, we can create a non-partisan select committee to investigate and racketeering that went on there

I doubt that any support for Hillary would change the context or intent of the reports too much. People were getting trigger happy, but there were also reports against you that were valid.

 

Even though Debates is meant to be a place where discussions are expected to get heated, all bets are not off. The goal of Debates is try and be respectful of other people's opinions, even if they are different from yours, a goal that you repeatedly failed to meet.

 

You're right, I shouldn't come down to your level, but it says it right there, it's your level. You set the precedent that needed to be avoided.

 

I really don't think you have any place to say that I don't change when you have to lie about me rallying votes in the Waifu Wars of all things. If you have to make things up just to blame me for them, it makes it harder to believe you when there are legitimate criticisms to be made about me. It just makes it look like I'm your scapegoat.

 

People are welcome to want me to step down, but I'm not talking about those other people. I'm talking about your own reasons for wanting me to step down, and I'm not really convinced by your reasons.

I have a quote from the person Running the damn thing to say that you were making sure you waifu didn't lose..c'mon

 

There's a lot of pot kettle black going on here, except this pot was actually shiny enough to tell people who I knew for certain would vote against my girl to vote all the same. 

 

 

 

 

This was in the context of Cynthia losing the tournament too, after people like Elly and people who only voted for that round along start pitching in against Trishula. A convo with Cowcow after both him and Mirei knew about the voting ploys in place.

 

If beyond all that you affirm you had nothing to do with people showing up to vote, then I'll take your word for it and apologize wrongly defamed you. If you want I could make a notice on the topic affirming that too

 

---

 

That aside, instead of pushing what your ideas of debates is, how about you look at what the founder of debates wanted when he suggested the section be created? It's supposed to get aggressive unless of course you want change what it was designed to do. There's already general for debates lite. A subsection was created for a more aggressive code of conduct. 

[VCR_CAT]

I have one more comment regarding YCM. It's minor to the point that I didn't even want to include it in my initial post but Black wants people to post here so imma do it.

 

Can we change the color of the spoiler backdrop and maybe the textbox on 2edgy just slightly? Like it's a nice color don't get me wrong, but some text colors are pretty hard to read in spoilers, and others are hard to see in the textbox when typing up your posts. As with most anything I can securely say about the site, I can only speak on how this affects things from the standpoint of RP, but in RP - where colored text is a given in your textbox and where colored text quotes are in basically every app's spoiler - some colors being hard to read can be a bit detrimental.

[spoiler=I've put all the colors together here for reference, view this in 2edgy]Black, Fire Brick, Red, Light Salmon, Lavender Blush

Maroon, Brown, Dark Orange, Orange, Antique White

Saddle Brown, Golden Rod, Gold, Yellow, Light Yellow

Dark Slate Gray, Dark Green, Green, Lime, Honeydew

Teal, Turquoise, Cyan, Pale Turquoise, Azure

Navy, Medium Blue, Blue, Light Blue, Alice Blue

Indigo, Purple, Violet, Plum, Lavender

Dark Gray, Gray, Dim Gray, Light Gray, White

 

Colors that are hard to see in the text editor: Medium Blue, Blue, arguably Indigo

Colors that are hard to see in spoilers: Pretty much just Indigo, and even then your mileage may vary.

Obviously can't see black on the black background but all the other colors are perfectly readable against it.

 

I did say it was minor as hell, and it's honestly real easy to work around by just highlighting sheet and probably not worth the effort of changing 2edgy's sheet for, but I thought I'd bring it up since Black's asking for posts ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

I'd still be using 2edgy if it wasn't for the black text being unreadable. Lots of people like to paste their work from Google Docs into RP's, and if they aren't pasting as plain text, it defaults to black.

 

 

Re: Mods, I have no qualms with any specific members, and really my only significant complaint is one that I'm sure they've heard before and remember. Pretty much the internal politics for mods that I take some issue with. This might just be me and my preferences, but I'd rather if there was less hesitancy for mods to take action. To elaborate a bit more, I know there's a desire to avoid drama w/ mod actions and to be sure that a right decision's being made, but combining a general desire for more rock-solid rules/standards should, IN THEORY, make mod action easier to take.

 

This isn't calling for more strict rules, or any changes to the rules (well, more specificity would be nice), just that if a problem arises, that there isn't so many apparent political hoops for a mod to jump through before taking action.

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

I'd like to remind the mod team, y'all demodded Strike for removing a picture that was the embodiment of pointed harassment.

 

I'm just going to mention the circumstances behind why STRIKER was demoted, in the event some of you still think we demodded him solely for overreacting to a potato pic.

 

[spoiler=He chose to resign on his own]

(Striker asked you all politely to remove said images that were being used for mockery purposes and then removed the IMG tags; that's it. He did NOT remove Hina's posting privileges as some people claimed he did. It is impossible for us to solely remove picture abilities for members.)

 

Recall that in September 2014, Night decided to put his fate as a moderator up to you guys (also back when Black and Koko were still normal members) after the backlash from having the current mods talk about his fate in private, then let you guys see what happened.

 

Looking at said vote thread, 7 of you voted to keep him as a moderator while 10 of you thought he should not be a moderator anymore.

 

While this voting was going on, we also spoke with Striker about him resigning quietly before the whole situation erupted into a chaotic mess. We admitted that promoting him without proper discussion was a terrible idea, considering the back history from 2010-2011 (which I have little knowledge of outside of the comparisons with coolspy at the time) and why members had a negative view of him.

 

Yes, Night was the one who demoted him, however Striker chose to resign on his own terms after the voting and realizing that he was ill-fitted for the job (knowing that he wouldn't be getting respected because of his history). 

 

 

 

 

I would've said this earlier, but I was starting class at that time. 

 

====

Anything else that came up between Roxas's post (#83) and this one will be addressed at a later time.

[Wahrheit]

I wouldn't mind some way of knowing what new policies or decisions the mod team was even discussing at any and all given times. Give people some opportunity to ease in before major or minor changes so there's less shock and, by extension, less backlash on the mod team. People would obviously be able to discuss across the forum what they think about these unfinished policies or decisions, but the mod team wouldn't necessarily have to justify it, because it wouldn't be set in stone yet, They could take the forum's temperature, in a sense. Not necessarily to decide whether to go through with said change, but how and how quickly.

"Notice and comment" is a successful regulatory structure, I would recommend its implementation here, as well.

 

When an administrative agency wants to promulgate new rules, it releases "notice" of them, and there's a time period wherein people can "comment" (now you see "notice and comment") on their views of the proposals. Notably, the FCC retracted their proposal of position that would end net neutrality after a notice and comment period with an extremely high (I think record?) number of public submissions.

[Phantom Roxas]

I wouldn't mind some way of knowing what new policies or decisions the mod team was even discussing at any and all given times. Give people some opportunity to ease in before major or minor changes so there's less shock and, by extension, less backlash on the mod team. People would obviously be able to discuss across the forum what they think about these unfinished policies or decisions, but the mod team wouldn't necessarily have to justify it, because it wouldn't be set in stone yet, They could take the forum's temperature, in a sense. Not necessarily to decide whether to go through with said change, but how and how quickly.

 

That's a good idea. Maybe something like "This is what we are planning, but this is a very early stage, so it's subject to change", and people can point out anything that jumps out at them, good or bad?

 

Old news, but if you want to launch a corruption investigation into the waifu war, we can create a non-partisan select committee to investigate and racketeering that went on there

 

I have a quote from the person Running the damn thing to say that you were making sure you waifu didn't lose..c'mon

 

There's a lot of pot kettle black going on here, except this pot was actually shiny enough to tell people who I knew for certain would vote against my girl to vote all the same.

 

Do you care to share that quote, then? Because all I was doing was voting as I normally would. I didn't make any attempt to influence anyone else's votes, so where is the evidence that I was trying to get people to vote my way? It can't be a pot/kettle situation, because that implies I did something hypocritical, which I did not. It seems more like you did something, and you're just accusing me of doing the same thing even though you have no basis to back it up.

[Wahrheit]

Winter, if you and Roxas can mutually agree to chill, is that an outcome you'd be happy with?

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

In terms of waifu wars Winter did try to have me vote for his character.

 

Never denied it, and everyone knows already

 

 

 

But it's not a complete picture, you could have said no instead of silence 

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

 

I'm just going to mention the circumstances behind why STRIKER was demoted, in the event some of you still think we demodded him solely for overreacting to a potato pic.

 

[spoiler=He chose to resign on his own]

(Striker asked you all politely to remove said images that were being used for mockery purposes and then removed the IMG tags; that's it. He did NOT remove Hina's posting privileges as some people claimed he did. It is impossible for us to solely remove picture abilities for members.)

 

Recall that in September 2014, Night decided to put his fate as a moderator up to you guys (also back when Black and Koko were still normal members) after the backlash from having the current mods talk about his fate in private, then let you guys see what happened.

 

Looking at said vote thread, 7 of you voted to keep him as a moderator while 10 of you thought he should not be a moderator anymore.

 

While this voting was going on, we also spoke with Striker about him resigning quietly before the whole situation erupted into a chaotic mess. We admitted that promoting him without proper discussion was a terrible idea, considering the back history from 2010-2011 (which I have little knowledge of outside of the comparisons with coolspy at the time) and why members had a negative view of him.

 

Yes, Night was the one who demoted him, however Striker chose to resign on his own terms after the voting and realizing that he was ill-fitted for the job (knowing that he wouldn't be getting respected because of his history). 

 

 

 

 

I would've said this earlier, but I was starting class at that time. 

 

====

Anything else that came up between Roxas's post (#83) and this one will be addressed at a later time.

Correct, but Hina posted a picture of a potato and said it looked like striker after he asked her to take it down. That's harassment. If anything Hina should have been warned and there never should have been a referendum on striker if the mod team didn't care at all. We all remember how they shut down the baseless lynch mob Giga raised against you right? Who ultimately made the call to stop down Night/Striker isn't important, y'all entertained it 

[Phantom Roxas]

Never denied it, and everyone knows already

 

 

 

But it's not a complete picture, you could have said no instead of silence

When I was writing my post, I didn't see your picture. I've already denied it before, and I'm denying it again. I maintain that I had nothing to do with people showing up to vote.

 

Winter, if you and Roxas can mutually agree to chill, is that an outcome you'd be happy with?

Sorry for the holdup. I think I've said all I have to say to Winter, so if you mean the "notice and comment" structure, then yes, I would be happy to see it implemented. A huge issue has always been a lack of communication, and that sounds like it would be good step in the right direction.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

I doubt that any support for Hillary would change the context or intent of the reports too much. People were getting trigger happy, but there were also reports against you that were valid.

 

Even though Debates is meant to be a place where discussions are expected to get heated, all bets are not off. The goal of Debates is try and be respectful of other people's opinions, even if they are different from yours, a goal that you repeatedly failed to meet.

 

You're right, I shouldn't come down to your level, but it says it right there, it's your level. You set the precedent that needed to be avoided.

 

I really don't think you have any place to say that I don't change when you have to lie about me rallying votes in the Waifu Wars of all things. If you have to make things up just to blame me for them, it makes it harder to believe you when there are legitimate criticisms to be made about me. It just makes it look like I'm your scapegoat.

 

People are welcome to want me to step down, but I'm not talking about those other people. I'm talking about your own reasons for wanting me to step down, and I'm not really convinced by your reasons.

I would like to clarify a few things here

 

1) Are you suggesting it was not partisan? Cause I don't remember many reports when I was supporting HRC in the primary, seemed to have a lot to do with me going over to Trump side that pushed people.

 

2) Correct, so are you willing to accept a ban if I get one? Or is my line only one that I cannot cross? It is my level, but you're supposed so not come close to that as you noted. So are you really fit for your position as a moderator? How many warning points have you received for aggressively bullying? Cause I've gotten my fair share of them even if it was NOT my intention unlike you

 

3) My reason is simple, you're a left wing version of Hina. You're bias, and wantedly or not use your power to push what you want around. Neither of you should be mods. Nor should I.

 

4) Only other person to come out and say it was Birdie, though I did post enguin's thoughts on the matter as he requested. Which you ignored

When I was writing my post, I didn't see your picture. I've already denied it before, and I'm denying it again. I maintain that I had nothing to do with people showing up to vote.

 

 

Sorry for the holdup. I think I've said all I have to say to Winter, so if you mean the "notice and comment" structure, then yes, I would be happy to see it implemented. A huge issue has always been a lack of communication, and that sounds like it would be good step in the right direction.

In that case, I apologize for saying you were vote pulling. I suggested people vote for Trish and Cynthia, as enguin, cowcow, and mei deduced before Hina. It also wasn't against the rules, and I assumed that either you or cowcow was employing similar tactics to win that round. If you still maintain your innocence, there's little I can do to prove you "guilty"

Winter, if you and Roxas can mutually agree to chill, is that an outcome you'd be happy with?

So bury the issue? If Roxas wants to bring up the merits by which he thinks I've earned a ban, I'm willing to listen and I'm sure others will support him in that charge. I wholly concerned about the mod team, especially Roxas.

[Wahrheit]

Winter, if you and Roxas can mutually agree to chill, is that an outcome you'd be happy with?

[Delibirb]

 

That's a good idea. Maybe something like "This is what we are planning, but this is a very early stage, so it's subject to change", and people can point out anything that jumps out at them, good or bad?

Indeed. This was my most discussed position during the election, and as such is the one I think it is most important to address. As Wahrheit elaborated upon, a notice and comment period would be exceptionally helpful, I think, to the tensions between the community and the moderators. However, it should exist for many decisions and discussions taking place among the moderators, not just policy changes. Mundane things like acting on reports, no need, but whether someone is being considered for ban, for instance, should be given some notice - perhaps indirectly, though, without names.

[Wahrheit]

Indeed. This was my most discussed position during the election, and as such is the one I think it is most important to address. As Wahrheit elaborated upon, a notice and comment period would be exceptionally helpful, I think, to the tensions between the community and the moderators. However, it should exist for many decisions and discussions taking place among the moderators, not just policy changes. Mundane things like acting on reports, no need, but whether someone is being considered for ban, for instance, should be given some notice - perhaps indirectly, though, without names.

There are good reasons why not all of those deliberations should be subject to notice and comment. For larger decisions (longer bans), though, it might be useful.

[Blake]

Okay, things that are currently barred from the topic, which shall be added to the OP:

Personal issues with a member or moderator.

Reps being disabled in a section or in general.

 

Maybe I'll remove the latter if you guys won't go overboard with it.

[Phantom Roxas]

Indeed. This was my most discussed position during the election, and as such is the one I think it is most important to address. As Wahrheit elaborated upon, a notice and comment period would be exceptionally helpful, I think, to the tensions between the community and the moderators. However, it should exist for many decisions and discussions taking place among the moderators, not just policy changes. Mundane things like acting on reports, no need, but whether someone is being considered for ban, for instance, should be given some notice - perhaps indirectly, though, without names.

On the surface, I do agree with you, but giving notice on bans might be difficult if you're being indirectly and not mentioning names. I would expect people to try and guess who is being considered for the ban. They could either get it right, or get it right, and if they're wrong, then the comments may be referring to someone other than who the discussion is about. On the other hand, if we are open about who is being considered… I don't know, I think that would be like making bans into a case of someone having to stand trial, though I might be misunderstanding.

 

Generally, I'm open to having the structure, but how it would apply to certain subjects varies. Reports are definitely mundane, and there's enough discussion among mods. So we have bans and policy changes. Anything else it may be useful for?