Moderation/Rule/Site Concerns and Suggestions

[Wahrheit]

But proof of a lack of positive is not a proof of a negative?

 

Unless one can proven negative impact, one does not have grounds to remove reps on the basis that it is negative. Which up until now has been the argument for it's removal; that it's detrimental to the section.

 

Likewise one cannot prove that positive reps haven't served as a positive thing, because it is not the only contributing component to the size of the active memberbase in debates. It is hypothetically possible that reps are serving as a positive influence, but that the otherwise hostile manner in which debates descends into is a greater detraction than the positive impact of those reps.

 

So technically neither side can prove what we are arguing here. It's semantics, but it is unproven.

Remember when I said, earlier in the thread, that this discussion was a great example of the problem? Here we are again!

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

I'm glad you're taking such an interesting in debate, on the side of each topic, you find find the poster frequency. Furthermore, if you are inclined to get that citation, I suggest you go take a deeper look at recent topics. It's gonna be the same 10ish people posting

[Aerion Brightflame]

Remember when I said, earlier in the thread, that this discussion was a great example of the problem? Here we are again!

 

Yeah, I'm arguing for arguing's sake (Well and because proof has still not be given, just an assumption of proof). I probably shouldn't be.

 

As I've said before, quality is not something I expect from this sites debates, even from myself.

 

I will stop now, because I've made my points, and stated my position. I apologise for dragging off topic a little. But finally:

 

I'm glad you're taking such an interesting in debate, on the side of each topic, you find find the poster frequency. Furthermore, if you are inclined to get that citation, I suggest you go take a deeper look at recent topics. It's gonna be the same 10ish people posting

 

To restate:

And what Warheilt said - You haven't proven the statement around which your argument is built upon.

 

You have gone:

Positive reps are in debates

Debates has not grown

Therefore positive reps keep debates from growing

 

Which is I believe an 'affirming the consequences' logical fallacy.

[Halubaris Maphotika]

Of course you only use that argument when it is useful to you.

 

New users are still just as jaded as they were before the implementation of reps. To pretend like they have done anything positive is simple rhetoric. This aspect of the site will never change, but it remains a poor idea.

[evilfusion]

I'm usually the type to want to avoid slippery slopes from forming.

 

Suppose, for example, I agree that reps in Debates is a horrible thing to have around because it neither enhances discussion, and contributes to a mob mentality. I forgot the exact wording, my apologies if I phrased that poorly.

 

So I somehow discover a way to remove rep functionality in Debates, and then do so.

 

Later down the road, someone will have an argument about say...removing reps from TCG, because it doesn't make people post quality, and in fact, it's usually the spammy, add-nothing posts that exist for humor, like "terrible, next", etc. When initial argument is made that this isn't a severe enough problem to warrant disabling reps in the TCG section, someone points over to Debates and says "BUT...you removed reps in Debates for the same reason I'm presenting here. The circle-jerking of elitists gets them these reps, and encourages everyone to post like this, and people who bash newbies in TCG get reps. It's an unhealthy mentality!"

 

Which could very well be a somewhat true statement, just like the argument about Debates, and with the prior precedent for disabling this function in one section for the same reason, I go ahead and remove reps in TCG as well.

 

The question then becomes...why stop there? Other sections have people using reps frivolously for low-quality or overly argumentative/hostile posts that shouldn't really warrant the reps, and the section probably gets this a lot. Look at Miscellaneous. Or Games. Or CC.

 

That's the danger of a slippery slope. The thing is, what warrants a rep is completely subjective from the standpoint of the person giving it away. They liked the post. Doesn't matter what their reason is, because that's not really something they need to justify to other people, nor is it really our job to determine whether it's a "good" reason or not. I tend to like posts if they're well-argued, well-articulated, and occasionally, if I just found it amusing. I'm a cheapskate when it comes to reps, but I'm not going to insist that certain posts or sections should outright be DISALLOWED this...completely meaningless stamp of approval from whatever member happened to enjoy the post enough to click a button.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

But proof of a lack of positive is not a proof of a negative?

 

Unless one can proven negative impact, one does not have grounds to remove reps on the basis that it is negative. Which up until now has been the argument for it's removal; that it's detrimental to the section.

 

Likewise one cannot prove that positive reps haven't served as a positive thing, because it is not the only contributing component to the size of the active memberbase in debates. It is hypothetically possible that reps are serving as a positive influence, but that the otherwise hostile manner in which debates descends into is a greater detraction than the positive impact of those reps.

 

So technically neither side can prove what we are arguing here. It's semantics, but it is unproven.

 

EDIT: And what Warheilt said - You haven't proven the statement around which your argument is built upon.

 

You have gone:

Positive reps are in debates

Debates has not grown

Therefore positive reps keep debates from growing

 

Which is I believe an 'affirming the consequences' logical fallacy.

Well obviously Tom, correlation does not imply causation. There without doubt more than 1 dependent variable influencing why debates isn't growing. 

 

What can be shown is that certain users have a statistically strong correlation repping certain people in certain situations

 

I've actually gone

 

1) Debates has not grown despite electing one of us to head debates - bad

2) Certain members are exemplifying bad faith with post of little substance or no posts at all, but having a statistically significant rep standard

3) In making arguments, the validity of your argument at the end is it's own reward, not getting periodic pats on the back and confirmation bias from people with arguably personal grudges 

[Halubaris Maphotika]

If DJ Khalenguin isn't a prime example of why Reps in general are bad, then I don't what else to see.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Remember when I said, earlier in the thread, that this discussion was a great example of the problem? Here we are again!

Care to respond to my query? Do people frequently applaud you in court or does your client (not even sure if that should be the word to describe the mob in debates) increase his hourly rate for you mid case if you make him happy

 

It seems you like to pat yourself on the back without making much of case beyond deliberately misstating what has been said by your opposition 

I'm usually the type to want to avoid slippery slopes from forming.

 

Suppose, for example, I agree that reps in Debates is a horrible thing to have around because it neither enhances discussion, and contributes to a mob mentality. I forgot the exact wording, my apologies if I phrased that poorly.

 

So I somehow discover a way to remove rep functionality in Debates, and then do so.

 

Later down the road, someone will have an argument about say...removing reps from TCG, because it doesn't make people post quality, and in fact, it's usually the spammy, add-nothing posts that exist for humor, like "terrible, next", etc. When initial argument is made that this isn't a severe enough problem to warrant disabling reps in the TCG section, someone points over to Debates and says "BUT...you removed reps in Debates for the same reason I'm presenting here. The circle-jerking of elitists gets them these reps, and encourages everyone to post like this, and people who bash newbies in TCG get reps. It's an unhealthy mentality!"

 

Which could very well be a somewhat true statement, just like the argument about Debates, and with the prior precedent for disabling this function in one section for the same reason, I go ahead and remove reps in TCG as well.

 

The question then becomes...why stop there? Other sections have people using reps frivolously for low-quality or overly argumentative/hostile posts that shouldn't really warrant the reps, and the section probably gets this a lot. Look at Miscellaneous. Or Games. Or CC.

 

That's the danger of a slippery slope. The thing is, what warrants a rep is completely subjective from the standpoint of the person giving it away. They liked the post. Doesn't matter what their reason is, because that's not really something they need to justify to other people, nor is it really our job to determine whether it's a "good" reason or not. I tend to like posts if they're well-argued, well-articulated, and occasionally, if I just found it amusing. I'm a cheapskate when it comes to reps, but I'm not going to insist that certain posts or sections should outright be DISALLOWED this...completely meaningless stamp of approval from whatever member happened to enjoy the post enough to click a button.

The difference is debate should take a court setting. You make arguments, your opponent refutes them. You bring it witnesses, you make further arguments. A poor argument sets you back, a good one moves you forward. The only mesure of feedback was initially desired to be a quality of your argument.

 

It's not fair to conflate this with TCG, where even a terrible combo that was creative gets a subjective mesure of a wow factor

 

Obligatory, slippery slope is not a valid argument without preset endgoals post

[ENMaker]

If DJ Khalenguin isn't a prime example of why Reps in general are bad, then I don't what else to see.

 

I have achieved something that will never be matched, and I suppose this does discourage other users; seeing my unattainable brilliance. So yes, I agree with this.

[Blake]

Okay, we have a thread for the "Rep Circlejerk". I hate to tell you that, as this is a general thread, but seriously, this is a tiny issue in the grand scheme and, again, already has a thread.

 

oops mixed up with the color item thread

 

As is a given, Winter has a habit of derailing just about anything for his personal goals, to talk politics, or so forth. It's why there's a section of the Discord for politics, which was temporarily named "Winterflop".

 

On top of that, no progress is being made.

 

If this continues, make a thread.

 

Enough of it here.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

As is a given, Winter has a habit of derailing just about anything for his personal goals, to talk politics, or so forth. It's why there's a section of the Discord for politics, which was temporarily named "Winterflop".

You've made a pretty serious accusation. I'd like you to privately explain to me exactly how I've derailed this topic, if that's what you are implying, or detract your statement in the case you cannot.

 

I don't particularly care how you run the discord server, including making that toxic channel for deadpool to post his various circular (and quite often racist) queries in, but I'd appreciate if you don't publicly defame me for no other reason than to do so. I'd have PM'd you, but you've still stuck to your childish retort and kept me blocked over the lavaval chain sheet

 

For a winterflop, there's very little winter in that clusterfuck

 

---

 

Reps aside, there have been quite a few people who have raised concerns about Roxas. Hardly a winter only issue

[Blake]

You've made a pretty serious accusation. I'd like you to privately explain to me exactly how I've derailed this topic, if that's what you are implying, or detract your statement in the case you cannot.

 

I don't particularly care how you run the discord server, including making that toxic channel for deadpool to post his various circular queries in, but I'd appreciate if you don't publicly defame me for no other reason than to do so. I'd have PM'd you, but you've still stuck to your childish retort and kept me blocked over the lavaval chain sheet

 

---

 

Reps aside, there have been quite a few people who have raised concerns about Roxas. Hardly a winter only issue

We have had a solid or near-solid page about this rep issue, that boils down to "Well how do you have merit?" "Here's how ayyy, now gib proof" "No funk your qualifications, funk your need for proof, gib proof", "but you no gib proof" "i no has to". If that's not derailing, I don't know what is. There are a lot of things to address, and diluting the thread with a minor issue that has already experienced these issues in its own thread in the past... Yeah.

 

you're not blocked so idek what you're on about, and blocking people is kinda a right, so...

 

Then talk about that issue. No one is stoppinf you from that.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

We have had a solid or near-solid page about this rep issue, that boils down to "Well how do you have merit?" "Here's how ayyy, now gib proof" "No funk your qualifications, funk your need for proof, gib proof", "but you no gib proof" "i no has to". If that's not derailing, I don't know what is. There are a lot of things to address, and diluting the thread with a minor issue that has already experienced these issues in its own thread in the past... Yeah.

 

you're not blocked so idek what you're on about, and blocking people is kinda a right, so...

 

Then talk about that issue. No one is stoppinf you from that.

It's a right, but when an authority throws out accusations and then blocks you, you have little way to contact them outside of publicly

 

 

I would like to refute a false statement from Black here for the public record

 

Now then, that post is whole lot of nothing really. Yes Wahr is a law student. But if you bothered to read what I said, I explain exactly why he wasn't qualified to make the claim he did, and posed a question to him based on the qualification he did possess. Silence from him yet.

 

I explained to Brightflame exactly how he was misinterpreting my claim, so far silence, but it seems he got what I was trying to say. That was "very little funk you, gib me proof"

 

If you guys had acted in the past, instead of locking a thread and sitting on it for a few months, they would be no need to rehash it. When jack made the case to support debates, there were two tenants

 

mods would largely stay out of it - broken

 

Shitty arguments would have an argument based objectivity feedback - broken

 

I'm asking y'all to fix the mess in a section that I frequent. 

 

 

---

 

Again, excess on the mod team, when will the downsize begin?

 

---

 

Edit: Thank you

[Blake]

It's a right, but when an authority throws out accusations and then blocks you, you have little way to contact them outside of publicly

 

[image]

 

I would like to refute a false statement from Black here for the public record

 

Now then, that post is whole lot of nothing really. Yes Wahr is a law student. But if you bothered to read what I said, I explain exactly why he wasn't qualified to make the claim he did, and posed a question to him based on the qualification he did possess. Silence from him yet.

 

I explained to Brightflame exactly how he was misinterpreting my claim, so far silence, but it seems he got what I was trying to say. That was "very little funk you, gib me proof"

 

If you guys had acted in the past, instead of locking a thread and sitting on it for a few months, they would be no need to rehash it. When jack made the case to support debates, there were two tenants

 

mods would largely stay out of it - broken

 

Shitty arguments would have an argument based objectivity feedback - broken

 

I'm asking y'all to fix the mess in a section that I frequent

 

---

 

Again, excess on the mod team, when will the downsize begin?

I made a mistake. I had your posts unblocked, not Messages, and I assumed both were. Sorry. Even then, Discord and Profile Comments exist.

 

You're asking us to tailor the section to your whims.

 

No one else wants reps removed, only you, and only you have an issue with them on this level. Even if others acknowledge it, you are a lone man in advocating it. There's no need to rehash it when no one wants it. Even rep reduction, which you largely abandoned, isn't especially supported. It'd still be safer than this.

 

As for Mod involvement... Mods are people, too. If they have an opinion, they should have a right to speak. But I don't know Debates. Take it up with those who do. You're making a case to the blind, instead of giving them sight to understand.

 

idk man what reason do we have to downsize the team

 

I'm not denying you, mind, but this is an empty statement with no logic to it.

[Phantom Roxas]

Reps aside, there have been quite a few people who have raised concerns about Roxas. Hardly a winter only issue

And I'll happily take the concerns other people have raised into consideration. For example, I believe Sombra made very good points.

 

Phantom Roxas: He's my least favorite moderator by far. He has trouble distinguishing jokes from actual issues and he's a little... Overly harsh on his punishments. I know he moderators Anime/Manga/TV&Cartoons, but... While they're technically more active than other sections, they still aren't too extreme. Not to mention that's the sections that Smear also mods, though I dunno if Smear is around all that much either. If there was any moderator I would cut, it would honestly be Roxas. Participating in 'Mod Discussions' but not really doing much outside of that, besides aggressively posting in Debates, is a little... Scary, to be honest. It sort of feels like he's getting weight just by being around a long time, without contributing a lot else. Maybe I'm wrong, but if I'm not the only one feeling like this, it's worth consideration.

I honestly can't think of any counters to these, though I'd like to address the idea that I get weight just because I've been around long enough. I believe that's a valid complaint, and it's something I myself have been regretting. How do I put this? I would very much prefer if it was not the case, but I agree that is true, so the most I could hope for is contributing more, but that only leads us back into the other concerns. For what it's worth, I don't believe you're wrong, nor I don't think you're the only one who feels the same way, so your criticisms are definitely something I'd like to give more serious consideration.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

I made a mistake. I had your posts unblocked, not Messages, and I assumed both were. Sorry. Even then, Discord and Profile Comments exist.

 

You're asking us to tailor the section to your whims.

 

No one else wants reps removed, only you, and only you have an issue with them on this level. Even if others acknowledge it, you are a lone man in advocating it. There's no need to rehash it when no one wants it. Even rep reduction, which you largely abandoned, isn't especially supported. It'd still be safer than this.

 

As for Mod involvement... Mods are people, too. If they have an opinion, they should have a right to speak. But I don't know Debates. Take it up with those who do. You're making a case to the blind, instead of giving them sight to understand.

 

idk man what reason do we have to downsize the team

 

I'm not denying you, mind, but this is an empty statement with no logic to it.

No, I'm asking for you to tailor the section to the standards from which it was created. Again, you don't cheer and jeer in the middle of a civilized debate

 

I "backed off" the rep limit site wide, because the main place it was being abused in, games, Sakura dealt with. 

 

Mods are people, but when a mod is tone deaf and regularly brings him or herself down to levels of people who they're are supposed police over, there's a porblem

 

I mean I could re-quote Birdie's statement and requote example of roxas crossing the line. 

And I'll happily take the concerns other people have raised into consideration. For example, I believe Sombra made very good points.

 

I honestly can't think of any counters to these, though I'd like to address the idea that I get weight just because I've been around long enough. I believe that's a valid complaint, and it's something I myself have been regretting. How do I put this? I would very much prefer if it was not the case, but I agree that is true, so the most I could hope for is contributing more, but that only leads us back into the other concerns. For what it's worth, I don't believe you're wrong, nor I don't think you're the only one who feels the same way, so your criticisms are definitely something I'd like to give more serious consideration.

Birdy is being too kind I'm afraid. I'm aware that you've been fairly active in game and such. But activity doesn't = modship. 

 

You've brought yourself down to the level of users you've wanted banned, most recently in the trans topic when you yourself admitted to your transgressions. If the same standards of demotion that have been applied in the past still exist, as with striker, you've far earned yours

 

Unlike someone like Aix or Night, whom can be criticized for inactivity, it is in my opinion that your case is different where you have taken your modship and used it to push you agenda. Seniority does not excuse your inability to stay above the fray. 

[Wahrheit]

Winter, what you're asking for isn't feasible anyway.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Winter, what you're asking for isn't feasible anyway.

Lowering the rep-limit is, though it is an inferior idea to removing the reps all together from debates. It might not be possible, but if we're able to remove post count, I don't entirely see why it shouldn't be.

 

If removing a mod from the team is infeasible, then we have bigger problem beyond repairing a section to it's original goal

[Tourmaline]

All Winter wants is for me to be a moderator.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

All Winter wants is for me to be a moderator.

I don't actually. You're a right version of what I'm criticizing Roxas and other for doing. You're overly aggressive on cowcow and the left. While I appreciate that from a debate standpoint, it's not good for a mod to have. 

 

 

Barring vla1ne or Pol taking up the job, I think Dad has it covered. 

[Tourmaline]

I don't actually. You're a right version of what I'm criticizing Roxas and other for doing. You're overly aggressive on cowcow and the left. While I appreciate that from a debate standpoint, it's not good for a mod to have.

 

 

Barring vla1ne or Pol taking up the job, I think Dad has it covered.

That's even less relevant than reps in the debates section. Undertaking the job of a moderator requires accepting new standards and duties that normal members are not held up to. Objectivity and being impartial are things I'm greato at.

 

Also, I love Ricardo the most and have actually been proactive in fostering a positive relationship with WAHRHEIT regardless of position.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

That's even less relevant than reps in the debates section. Undertaking the job of a moderator requires accepting new standards and duties that normal members are not held up to. Objectivity and being impartial are things I'm greato at.

 

Also, I love Ricardo the most and have actually been proactive in fostering a positive relationship with WAHRHEIT regardless of position.

I don't want a right wing Roxas swinging a bat, even if the bat is likely to bash people I disagree with. That's not healthy for debates, would just make it from from a leftwing jerk to a rightwing one.

[Tourmaline]

I don't want a right wing Roxas swinging a bat, even if the bat is likely to bash people I disagree with. That's not healthy for debates, would just make it from from a leftwing jerk to a rightwing one.

You're absolutely delusional. I only use sharp weapons like wit.

[Phantom Roxas]

Birdy is being too kind I'm afraid. I'm aware that you've been fairly active in game and such. But activity doesn't = modship. 

 

You've brought yourself down to the level of users you've wanted banned, most recently in the trans topic when you yourself admitted to your transgressions. If the same standards of demotion that have been applied in the past still exist, as with striker, you've far earned yours

 

Unlike someone like Aix or Night, whom can be criticized for inactivity, it is in my opinion that your case is different where you have taken your modship and used it to push you agenda. Seniority does not excuse your inability to stay above the fray. 

 

I literally just said that I regret that my time here has given me clout, so I wouldn't want to use that to push my "agenda".

 

There was more to the transgender topic than me slapping with you warning points for what I perceived to be hate speech. Other moderators have discussed their disagreement with me on that issue, and I found their points to be fine. My admission was because Polar Ice and CowCow both called me out when I was going too far, and I trust both of their judgments regarding my behavior.

 

You say "users" in the plural. I can think of a few other users that I've certainly been aggressive towards, but I don't have any "agenda" that includes trying to get them banned. That said, it has to go both ways. If I want to see someone banned, then usually that person must have done something to warrant that interest. I can accept criticism for my biases. What I don't agree with is someone passing the entirety of the guilt onto me.

[Blake]

LET'S GET DOWN TO BUSINESS TO DEFEAT THE HUNS

 

Potentially controversial position: Permabans should almost never be used.

 

Additional nuance: It makes a lot of sense to give users a time-out when they're being irrational or are otherwise diminishing the board as a whole. Sometimes, the necessary period may be weeks or months. It makes sense to keep them on a short leash when they come back, too.

 

But, having gained a lot of experience in moderating over the more than ten years I've been doing it, the list of users I feel confident about my decision to have permabanned is very short. People change over time, especially young people, and we are extremely receptive to new information, in most cases. Sometimes we need time to process and reflect on that new information, but we are indeed malleable. We can be wiser, more thoughtful, and ultimately better people, given some time and distance.

 

At the same time, we care about our communities, and our communities often benefit from having us in them. It makes little sense to restrain someone from a community they wish to be a part of so long as they are willing to improve themselves, and many online communities suffer population issues as-is. It's ultimately a question of relationships and our willingness to work on them. I think there's a lot of opportunity for growth and learning on both sides. Don't forget that in life, we don't often have the choice to merely exile someone from our social circles as a result of disagreements or even misbehavior. Obviously, the power dynamics differ here, and certain actions can and should be taken, but "moderation in moderation" may not be a bad motto to live by.

 

I have come to value compassion quite deeply over time, and I have found that my personal life, my relationships with others, and the communities that I manage have all benefited from it. It is difficult, but worthwhile.

On one hand, I think the team is, overall, a bit too scared to give out bans of any degree.

 

On the other, I can't disagree with this. The team is honestly a bit too ban-happy in a situation or two, and the leash has had to be pulled in order to keep them in line with this.

 

But I want to address cases like Thar later, as I know you brought it up in the past.

 

Regarding permabans:

During my tenure as a moderator, I held largely the same opinion as Sakura: that giving second chances on permabans undermines their purpose and takes the teeth out of the punishment, so to speak. On that note, a permaban should only be used in the following circumstances:
- Spambots, but that's obvious.
- Posting explicitly sexual/graphic content, as we are a "kid's forum" and such.
- Repeated malicious attempts to disrupt or destabilize the site's community. This one's a bit more open-ended, and would naturally require faith in the mod team to ascertain what qualifies as "malicious and disruptive." There are a few active members now for whom this argument could be made, which is why I advocate for deliberation in such circumstances. Key thing to note is that it isn't just a one-time thing: it requires a pattern of active... dickbaggery.

Regarding moderators:

Don't have many complaints for y'all tbh. I've modded on many sites before where people frequently run into the whole "give them an inch and they take a mile" problem, so I can understand the need for trepidation. My only concern is that some mods don't really stay active in "their section" anymore, or at least not active enough to keep activity up in their portion of the community. I personally feel like that's part of the job description of a moderator, having resigned due to not feeling like I could handle that aspect anymore, so I think the site would receive a benefit from reviewing staff on that quality.

Regarding random other suggestions:

Please don't make member groups or topic color changes free. It'll turn the site into a kaleidoscopic hellhole. Plus, having those sorts of things require points encourages activity, and I don't think I've seen anyone spamming low-effort posts in order to get one of those things.

Just my $0.02.

And there are maybe... 3? Members who even begin to touch those criteria, from our PoV. Haven't outright earned the perma yet, though.

 

yeah i don't post in my section pretty much at all

 

I wanted to change things, but a clash of ideals/life/taking care of the Halloween Event got that derailed, and I never really managed to get back on track. I've kinda just tried to keep the team from going directions I think are poor ones/have fun with the members through events and silliness, where powers come into play.

 

I should definitely get back to the section, unless my station changes.

 

Membergroups will absolutely never be free. I may hand them out as event/constest prizes (See: Halloween Event), but that's for putting in the effort, which goes back to the same thing as activity on the site.

 

I know it's not about me, personally, but I wanted to explain, partially because I find groups to be a good incentive for participation. Of course, this runs the risk of oversaturation as well, which is why in some cases (Contests), I only want to offer specific groups, as opposed to Custom Membergroups.

 

Not to draw attention away from the permaban issue, but I do agree with Winter that 750 points for a single color item is pretty damn steep. If the colors wouldn't change every time somebody edited the OP that'd be one thing, but as it is, somebody would have to buy one just to buy another after making even the slightest change to the OP, or ask a mod to do it, which not everyone wants to do every time they edit their thread's OP. This is a problem in any section where a regularly-updated table of contents or otherwise a regularly-updated post (maybe Blogs, RP especially, perhaps CW and CC Multiples) is the norm for that section's threads. However, I do agree that making it free makes it too spammable, even if the effort of going to the shop to use them is a slight deterrent. Until a solution is worked out to make the colors stick around after editing the OP, perhaps lower it to 250 - maybe even 100 - points a pop?

 

Also, this probably isn't something normal or perhaps even super mods can fix, but there are some issues with the site either on the 2edgy theme and/or when using Firefox. Specifically, features that would expand anything on the page save spoilers don't work without refreshing the page. "Show All Comments" on a status doesn't work and the notifications bar won't drop down if it's your first time on the front page on that tab; you have to refresh to make them work. The feature to show new posts that come up while working on your own also doesn't work. These weren't problems for a short while before the recent-ish downtime, but if we're bringing up comments and concerns, this just feels like a good time to mention it.

After a quick bit of testing, I'm having the same issues with all three available themes, so it may be one of my addons (though I don't recall getting any new ones during the downtime) getting mixed up with how the site works or something, or perhaps one of our browsers is out of date. I'll do some further tests and check that I'm up-to-date, then edit this post with my findings.

 

EDIT as promised: After having tried with no addons, I came up with a theory that maybe it's because YCM is the first page my browser loads. Not the case; the same errors persisted when I tried starting with a blank page and when I tried using a new homepage. Firefox is up-to-date too so that's not the issue unless Sakura's is outdated (doesn't seem likely). For good measure, I also tried seeing if the same issues persisted on Chrome (they do), which tells me it's neither the browser itself nor the theme that's the problem. Guess this is my own problem now; I'll look into some solutions when I get around to it, but y'all are doing fine it seems.

We can't really cheapen them much, though, or they become spammed.

 

And while mods doing it was suggested, that's a lot of effort for a small thing, depending on how much it takes off.

 

If anything, I would propose we meet half-way:

Once you buy a Color Topic item and use it, PM a moderator or two (preferably the section moderators) with the color codes + the thread's link. This way, you have a trust set up from the start, and they can fix it for free, considering the unfortunate expiration of the coloring.

 

I don't think this is a permanent or amazing fix, but it's a bit of both.

 

As for the glitch...

 

I'm sorry, I am 0 help in that regard ;;

 

SO. TL;DR:

 

Koko needs to be removed.

 

Roxas, Night, Aix are primary concerns for moderator status. Aix less so than the other two, but above Rai. I went over the reasons above, I might come back and go into more detail. Or get someone else to do it.

 

Rai needs to be monitored for his activity, cause I just dunno if he's actually doing much lately?

This is a post that you guys should be commenting on more. I don't wanna give my thoughts on it as of now, but I think you guys should support/oppose/whatever with this, so we can get a better feel for the memberbase's stance

 

My main problem with a permaban, is that if they do come back after being given the second chance, they are forced to make a new account, AND more importantly, not give any hint or tell anyone who they are, or get banned again if they do, even if they didn't do anything wrong. 

 

Like who the funk actually cares about that? It's not like people here are going to be like "OH sheet MAN, YOU'RE THAT GUY WHO POSTED THIS -insert thing here-. YOU SUCH A baka MAN". So, if its designed to protect the user from harassment, then the entire concept of "you can't tell anyone who you are" seems frivolous.

Yeah, I never got this.

 

I wasn't a mod when the Sunn thing actually began happening (I think I was towards the end?), so I never even knew he came back, he just seemed fishy. I felt it was incredibly out of line for the team to not only allow him back, but to do it in such a sneaky way that only served to hurt both sides.

 

And, as someone stated here, it just makes tensions rise when the truth comes out =x

 

As for Thar, my stance is that he earned it. I was on fine terms with him, and we had shared friends, so I have nothing against him, but... He knew what he was doing.

 

However, I was not privy to the full circumstances, and I fully believe those that genuinely goaded him deserved more than they got. One of them did get banned from the Discord server, and they ended up leaving YCM, but there are others I tire of seeing similar behavior from. There are cases that need to be more heavily moderated, and there are those that probably get treatment that is too harsh, and this is something we need to work on.

 

If Thar came back in a respectful manner, starting from zero other than his relationships with the community, I don't believe I would have an issue.

 

Sunn, however, did it in no duress. I am not as happily going to accept them back, but asking to be banned again did show a sign of maturity, in my eyes, so maybe things changed.