Unexpected Dai

[Kaiji]

 

For mobile users with phones the size of ants

 

 

If you control no monsters: Special Summon 1 Level 4 or lower Normal Monster from the Deck.

 

Card value is cut and dry, it's not a normal summon and in most cases Not A Normal Summon is good.

 

Great Value Card Interactions

 

 

Historically, Pendulum Decks have always looked for a way to make threats without committing to a pend summon as successfully pending 3+ usually spells game / your opponent is always trying to prevent you from reaching that stage. Luster + Plush, Clash of Dracorivals, Instant Fusion you name it.

 

Where does Dragonpulse fit into this, wasn't it nerfed in Gen 6 to 85 BP?

A: Ye, but Startime restricts itself to only Magician Pendulum Monsters and this is the only target. Since there is no way to make Startime outside of Pendulum Summon, you'll have to settle for Normal Summon + Unexpected Dai.

 

But it's k, Startime is a gud ygo cart and making the 2nd Startime afterwards puts you in either ZARC zone or super far ahead.

 

 

 

Unfortunately, Dragonpulse isn't a DARK Spellcaster so this can't do everything. Memes to the rescue!

 

Additional target for Unexpected Dai, Startime is unavailable, but a Dire Wolf is a Dire Wolf.

[(GigaDrillBreaker)]

So, aside from when it is grabbing a (potentially key) pendulum monster, how is it better than running...

funk. Level 4 cydra effect. I haven't played in ages but this thing I'm thinking of was really funking good maybe a year and a half ago when I really cared about the game.

Anyway, is the draw of this over... the level 4 cydra (I know I'm not thinking of thrasher... this is gonna kill me)... simply that it can get specific types and attributes you may need? Spellcaster for trapeze, DARK for... I dunno, Evilswarm Nightmare was pretty good that one time. Otherwise, having to run otherwise dead vanillas like Sorcerer of the Doomed seems too big a drawback (unless being able to pendulum summon makes the worst case scenario ultimately alright).

EDIT: Assault Halberd!

 

EDIT2: Thinking about it more, this was actually in the context of decks that used brilliant fusion and garnet. Not even sure how valid my old reasoning was.

[Kaiji]

Probably not, usually outside of the Zarc Magician deck you'd go either Halberd or Thrasher. More so Thrasher cuz it light so its LIT and can make Tsukuyomi as seen in Minerva and ABC decks.

 

Startime Magician

 

2 Level 4 "Magician" Pendulum Monsters

Must first be Xyz Summoned with the above Xyz Materials. Once per turn: You can detach 1 Xyz Material from this card; add to your hand, 1 face-up DARK Spellcaster-Type Pendulum Monster from your Extra Deck or 1 DARK Spellcaster-Type monster from your Deck or Graveyard. Once per turn, if a Pendulum Monster Card in your Monster Zone or Pendulum Zone would be destroyed by battle or card effect, you can send 1 Spellcaster-Type monster from your Deck to the Graveyard instead.

 

This dude is like the best Xyz in the extra and there's no other option available aside from Rabbit which requires you to run Dragonpulse anyway.

 

For the Dark Spellcaster niche that requires you to SS Sorcerer of the Doomed, it's to activate this dude's (below) Pend eff to pop itself. I'm unsure of its actual viability (running Sorc) so I went ahead and categorized it as a wacky meme combo.

 

Iris Magician

Pendulum Effect Once per turn: You can target 1 DARK Spellcaster-Type monster you control; any battle damage your opponent takes from attacks involving the targeted monster and their monster is doubled for the rest of this turn, also destroy this card.

 

Monster Effect(This card is always treated as a "Pendulum Dragon" card.)

If this card is destroyed by battle or card effect: You can add 1 "Pendulumgraph" card from your Deck to your hand.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Is the trade-off (the normal) worth running this over Rabbit?

 

I don't see too many non-crobat cards that can meet Startime's req that are worth summoning 

[(GigaDrillBreaker)]

Is the trade-off (the normal) worth running this over Rabbit?

Time for more absolutely uneducated combos that were almost good forever ago:

 

Rabbit also has the advantage of being incredibly synergistic with Leviair, which was accessible by just about any deck that ran sproids (pretty sure top is limited now, but once again, I am living in the past)

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Time for more absolutely uneducated combos that were almost good forever ago:

 

Rabbit also has the advantage of being incredibly synergistic with Leviair, which was accessible by just about any deck that ran sproids (pretty sure top is limited now, but once again, I am living in the past)

Problem there would be you only have 3 normals at best, and the second rabbit would be dead. You'd have to run something like Avarice or Wealth

 

I suppose Dai can mean you can run less Pulses which is another positive aspect

[Kaiji]

Is the trade-off (the normal) worth running this over Rabbit?

 

I don't see too many non-crobat cards that can meet Startime's req that are worth summoning 

Rabbit functions more or less the same as this card. It's not available at more than 1 copy for those who play the deck on YGOpro. 

 

Still leaves you with a Startime/outs ASF with 1 additional card in hand unlike Unexpected Dai, so it's p obvious which is going to see to play in OCG.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Rabbit functions more or less the same as this card. It's not available at more than 1 copy for those who play the deck on YGOpro. 

 

Still leaves you with a Startime/outs ASF with 1 additional card in hand unlike Unexpected Dai, so it's p obvious which is going to see to play in OCG.

Well the second and third copies lose value the minute you resolve the first unless you have a shuffler right? Does the deck have room for Gusto?

 

I'm just not sure that resolving one rabbit puts you far enough ahead to win from there. Games are not decided t1 no matter what people say

[Kaiji]

Well the second and third copies lose value the minute you resolve the first unless you have a shuffler right? Does the deck have room for Gusto?

 

I'm just not sure that resolving one rabbit puts you far enough ahead to win from there. Games are not decided t1 no matter what people say

Guess what, this also applies to the 2nd and 3rd copies of Unexpected Dai smh

 

also guess what, they're still level 4 monsters you'd be able to pend summon smh

 

And ofc you can deny modern ygo all you want but I'm pretty sure after resolving more than 1 Startime Magician you have all the resources you need to not care about "dead drawing rabbits waaaaa" and win from there 

 

 

 

anyway to change the subject 

 

Unexpected Dai still has the niche of summoning Tuners w/o a normal

 

[Bringerofcake]

Angel trumpeter is one of my favorite uses of the card,but also triggers the field in spiral.dek, and sometimes fishes out the dead copy that rabbit can't get. It's a cool card.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Guess what, this also applies to the 2nd and 3rd copies of Unexpected Dai smh

Except the second and third copies of UD aren't gonna be dead since you're only burning one normal for each one?

 

I'm not denying modern YGO, there's a reason why zodiac players don't always or even often win if the only thing they have going for them is they can start and set up their standard field 

 

YGO hasn't devolved to the point where the second and third turn draws are meaningless

[Kaiji]

Except the second and third copies of UD aren't gonna be dead since you're only burning one normal for each one?

 

I'm not denying modern YGO, there's a reason why zodiac players don't always or even often win if the only thing they have going for them is they can start and set up their standard field

 

YGO hasn't devolved to the point where the second and third turn draws are meaningless

They're still dead LOL since you will still control a monster

 

"Why is ygo so ez and winter theory so bad"

 

Yeah, since boards never get cleared

rest my case, winter theory is awful once again, Startime and Black Fang sheet on that statement

 

Stop worrying about marginal deckbuilding costs and you might be a better deckbuilder gg

 

Angel trumpeter is one of my favorite uses of the card,but also triggers the field in spiral.dek, and sometimes fishes out the dead copy that rabbit can't get. It's a cool card.

This is a hella good point.

 

They also designed the field spell against rabbit since it won't search if you special/pend more than 2 Normals

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

They're still dead LOL since you will still control a monster

 

"Why is ygo so ez and winter theory so bad"

 

This is a hella good point.

 

They also designed the field spell against rabbit since it won't search if you special/pend more than 2 Normals

Yeah, since boards never get cleared 

[Blake]

The logic to approach he game with is that your board isn't clear after T1. This is hardly new logic.

 

It's similar to the logic of why you run engines with only 1 target. Ygo is full of this sort of thing

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

The logic to approach he game with is that your board isn't clear after T1. This is hardly new logic.

 

It's similar to the logic of why you run engines with only 1 target. Ygo is full of this sort of thing

How is that the logical conclusion when most decks pride themselves on board breaking

 

If you were correct, people would scoop on their opponent's ep

[Blake]

How is that the logical conclusion when most decks pride themselves on board breaking

 

If you were correct, people would scoop on their opponent's ep

the context is deckbuilding

 

Please stop trying to strawman

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

the context is deckbuilding

 

Please stop trying to strawman

I'm not trying to strawman, if anything you're just putting out phrases that have nothing to do with what I'm saying and passively proclaiming your superiority in some argument that I'm not even fighting

 

The point I was trying to make was in respect to the rabbit v. dai debate. A lot of decks can put out formidable t1 fields, including magicians, but games don't end on the ep of t1, since board breaks do often happen. 

 

The fact that people play the duel on beyond the dice roll winner's turn shows that fields aren't safe like you're making them out to be

 

In that regard, the premise that your board is gonna be intact, is a flawed one. A second dai is more likely to be live than a second rabbit. This doesn't mean rabbit

[Kaiji]

this is where you do your research and figure out what Zarc magicians drop t1 and find a way to break that board since you provide 0 context in your claims which is usually the case for you (a poor attempt to avoid accountability).

 

Whatever point you trying to make barely matters LOL since I already pointed out that rabbit>dai in my 1st post (an actual important distinction between the 2 cards not some meme strawman), so just reread that instead of posting garbage.

 

Rabbit is a good ygo card in zarc magicians, im not gonn run 2 or 1 "cause it brix/I can't resolve the 2nd and third copy" Ima run all 3 and this is what you can barely grasp since all you need is the 1st rabbit to go through.

 

Nobody runs 3 Taketomborg so I CAN RSOLVE ALL 3 TERRORTOP MUH SECOND AND 3RD COPIES BCOME USELESS soooooo nice argument

 

Sounds to me like you also have 0 idea what Zarc Magicians do and i suggest you educate yourself before attempting theory (ive dropped hints in all my recent posts and im not going to explain the whole deck to you, I expect more of you "OCG Messiah").

[Blake]

I'm not trying to strawman, if anything you're just putting out phrases that have nothing to do with what I'm saying and passively proclaiming your superiority in some argument that I'm not even fighting

 

The point I was trying to make was in respect to the rabbit v. dai debate. A lot of decks can put out formidable t1 fields, including magicians, but games don't end on the ep of t1, since board breaks do often happen.

 

The fact that people play the duel on beyond the dice roll winner's turn shows that fields aren't safe like you're making them out to be

 

In that regard, the premise that your board is gonna be intact, is a flawed one. A second dai is more likely to be live than a second rabbit. This doesn't mean rabbit

You cited gameplay anecdotes against deckbuilding logic. That's definitely trying to create a false point to divert.

 

And you're still doing it. You're trying to play the victim, when you're just doing what you are so won't to do: divert away from points that counter your own and/or you don't wish to acknowledge.

 

Even still, I'll entertain you.

 

But first... you should never go into deckbuilding expecting your t1 field to be broken. The idea in deckbuilding in modern ygo is to make yourself as broken as possible, not to worry about them having Kaiju + Kama 1 or some sheet. Not to worry about Raigeki. sheet happens, you just have to bolster yourself.

 

And the thing is, Dai's second copy is marginally more live than rabbit 2, sure... but really, it's not that much more. Yes, board breaks happen, but they very rarely stop at simply breaking. Magician has a bit more survivability in that regard, it the point remains.

 

So then you have to consider potency (Rabbit) v marginal consistency (Dai)... but wait!!

 

If this was a case about dead drawing normals, sure, but the first rabbit is less of a dead draw than the first Dai. Dai is good T1, on average, and has no major guarantee of being live after. Rabbit is more likely. So while the concession of latter dais being more live is true, that doesn't matter when the first is less live.

 

And less potent. There's no argument about "BUT MULTIPLE RABBIT IS BAD" when you want to find it. It's like any other Engine of the sort, where you have a broken card that uses bad (in this case decentish) cards to powerful effect. It doesn't matter if you have dead level 4 bodies, they are level 4 bodies.

 

And let's go back to that, as well, to further debunk your deviation from the original point.

 

Rabbit is a level 4 monster that can be PSd

Dai is a spell with hard OPT dependent on a clear board and each copy depends on monsters in the deck

 

Rabbit is more consistently USABLE in some capacity, considering it's a blank Level 4 body at worst. Dai is outright dead.

 

I don't need to "claim superiority", because that's not the point, which you chose to dodge. I have the logic to back up my points without the need to divert away, and I can prove your points wrong, too. I have superior logic in this situation, and I want you to stop relying on diversion to try and win arguments, because you're better than that.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

this is where you do your research and figure out what Zarc magicians drop t1 and find a way to break that board since you provide 0 context in your claims which is usually the case for you (a poor attempt to avoid accountability).

 

Whatever point you trying to make barely matters LOL since I already pointed out that rabbit>dai in my 1st post (an actual important distinction between the 2 cards not some meme strawman), so just reread that instead of posting garbage.

 

Rabbit is a good ygo card in zarc magicians, im not gonn run 2 or 1 "cause it brix/I can't resolve the 2nd and third copy" Ima run all 3 and this is what you can barely grasp since all you need is the 1st rabbit to go through.

 

Nobody runs 3 Taketomborg so I CAN RSOLVE ALL 3 TERRORTOP MUH SECOND AND 3RD COPIES BCOME USELESS soooooo nice argument

 

Sounds to me like you also have 0 idea what Zarc Magicians do and i suggest you educate yourself before attempting theory (ive dropped hints in all my recent posts and im not going to explain the whole deck to you, I expect more of you "OCG Messiah").

Did you somehow miss the piece, where I told black 

 

This doesn't mean rabbit

 

 

I already mentioned on Discord that Gusto could easily solve the normal problem if you had room to run it. I'm not implying anything more than that Dai has some marginal consistency, as black put it, over rabbit.

 

As for Zarc magicians, I assume set Space, face up Startime, Face up ages, 2-3 cards in hand, active pendulum scale with cards to best utilize Space.

 

No doubt you can supplement this field with Zarc, Stardust, or Vortex if you open the right cards such as Iris. 

 

The bottom line, is, imo, it's still inferior to DDD fields, and those get broken regularly. I'm not seeing the negation potential as incarnate as it was with DDD. But feel free to correct me on that since you clearly think I'm wrong

 

Again I don't think I ever said that Rabbit was worse than Dai, merely that Dai had some advantages over Rabbit

 where I told black that 

 

Also what's this "OCG Messiah" crap? I've not claimed that OCG is superior or that I'm some sorta divine authority on it, so not entirely sure why you're trying to go for cheap points there

You cited gameplay anecdotes against deckbuilding logic. That's definitely trying to create a false point to divert.

 

And you're still doing it. You're trying to play the victim, when you're just doing what you are so won't to do: divert away from points that counter your own and/or you don't wish to acknowledge.

 

Even still, I'll entertain you.

 

But first... you should never go into deckbuilding expecting your t1 field to be broken. The idea in deckbuilding in modern ygo is to make yourself as broken as possible, not to worry about them having Kaiju + Kama 1 or some sheet. Not to worry about Raigeki. sheet happens, you just have to bolster yourself.

 

And the thing is, Dai's second copy is marginally more live than rabbit 2, sure... but really, it's not that much more. Yes, board breaks happen, but they very rarely stop at simply breaking. Magician has a bit more survivability in that regard, it the point remains.

 

So then you have to consider potency (Rabbit) v marginal consistency (Dai)... but wait!!

 

If this was a case about dead drawing normals, sure, but the first rabbit is less of a dead draw than the first Dai. Dai is good T1, on average, and has no major guarantee of being live after. Rabbit is more likely. So while the concession of latter dais being more live is true, that doesn't matter when the first is less live.

 

And less potent. There's no argument about "BUT MULTIPLE RABBIT IS BAD" when you want to find it. It's like any other Engine of the sort, where you have a broken card that uses bad (in this case decentish) cards to powerful effect. It doesn't matter if you have dead level 4 bodies, they are level 4 bodies.

 

And let's go back to that, as well, to further debunk your deviation from the original point.

 

Rabbit is a level 4 monster that can be PSd

Dai is a spell with hard OPT dependent on a clear board and each copy depends on monsters in the deck

 

Rabbit is more consistently USABLE in some capacity, considering it's a blank Level 4 body at worst. Dai is outright dead.

 

I don't need to "claim superiority", because that's not the point, which you chose to dodge. I have the logic to back up my points without the need to divert away, and I can prove your points wrong, too. I have superior logic in this situation, and I want you to stop relying on diversion to try and win arguments, because you're better than that.

I'm not arguing that Rabbit is worse than Dai black...the main point I made was the "marginal consistency (Dai)" portion

 

The other point, I made earlier was that you'd need to run fewer pulse with Dai relative to rabbit, which can be a factor if MDS is tight

 

Now where we might disagree is whether investing a gusto in the extra to make the additional rabbit live is worth it or not. Other than that I really don't think we're in disagreement given the variety of uses that even a dead rabbit can have for the deck from Iris to as you mentioned, a lv 4.

 

Again, I'm not saying Rabbit is worse than dai

[Blake]

I'm not arguing that Rabbit is worse than Dai black...the main point I made was the "marginal consistency (Dai)" portion

 

The other point, I made earlier was that you'd need to run fewer pulse with Dai relative to rabbit, which can be a factor if MDS is tight

 

Now where we might disagree is whether investing a gusto in the extra to make the additional rabbit live is worth it or not. Other than that I really don't think we're in disagreement given the variety of uses that even a dead rabbit can have for the deck from Iris to as you mentioned, a lv 4.

 

Again, I'm not saying Rabbit is worse than dai

and i debunked the actual marginal consistency ._.

 

it's worse and it's less consistent, what is there to argue

[Kaiji]

That's still wrong and just shows that you still care about deck concessions that don't matter. Acknowledging that Rabbit is the better card just ends there, any niches that Dai has I and other people already noted in the form of

 

-Being able to trigger the Mythical Radiance Field Spell

 

-Being able to SS a tuner with a 4 card engine as opposed to 6

 

you never acknowledged those or added to them and instead dodged the argument and talked about sheet strawmans like "2nd and 3rd rabbit" and "board clears".

 

Gusto doesn't matter loooooooool, you could just run the engine without him instead of giving up a turn to make either live (hint: Scale of 1).

 

there is no bottom line because you for some reason made a false equivalence to DDD since you refuse to provide context yet again. Now which cards do you use to break that board G1, and the likelyhood of that happening (hint: its a percentage) vs a specific matchup.

 

alot of popular decks arent even that good at breaking boards, usually you leave it to the side with kaijus and spell removal to do it for you.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

and i debunked the actual marginal consistency ._.

 

it's worse and it's less consistent, what is there to argue

Not consuming your normal is one of them I'd consider, but agu mentioned a few more

[Kaiji]

it consumes your normal anyway since you need another level 4 to make Startime

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

That's still wrong and just shows that you still care about deck concessions that don't matter. Acknowledging that Rabbit is the better card just ends there, any niches that Dai has I and other people already noted in the form of

 

-Being able to trigger the Mythical Radiance Field Spell

 

-Being able to SS a tuner with a 4 card engine as opposed to 6

 

you never acknowledged those or added to them and instead dodged the argument and talked about sheet strawmans like "2nd and 3rd rabbit" and "board clears".

 

Gusto doesn't matter loooooooool, you could just run the engine without him instead of giving up a turn to make either live (hint: Scale of 1).

 

there is no bottom line because you for some reason made a false equivalence to DDD since you refuse to provide context yet again. Now which cards do you use to break that board G1, and the likelyhood of that happening (hint: its a percentage) vs a specific matchup.

 

alot of popular decks arent even that good at breaking boards, usually you leave it to the side with kaijus and spell removal to do it for you.

Gusto doesn't matter, but it can make the additional rabbits live...can you dispute that point?

 

I'm not saying you have to run gusto...