Heartbeat-Abortion Bill Ohio

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

Can you all see how pointless this debate is?  You can't even agree what you're arguing about.

I have been arguing that it's pointless the way it's been going ^^;

[Sunshine Jesse]

I'm not defending the government making it hard for young parents? Never have, never will. I agree with the democratic critque that the GOP only cares about the life of the child until it's out of the womb, which is why I enthusiastically supported both President Elect Trump, and Senator Sander's plan to give generous maternity leave to mothers to lessen the financial burden of child bearing as well as VP Elect pence's initiative to make adoption more efficient so children could actually end up with families that wanted them

 

 

I'm willing to walk the whole mile to support the right to life, neither the old GOP nor the dems are

At least you have internal consistency. I can respect that. I might disagree, but your views aren't entirely hypocritical like a lot of people's are on the issue of abortion.

 

(Like the religious perspective, because the bible is pro-abortion.)

 

Just like how pro-choice advocates do not view abortion as murder, pro-life advocates do not view a fetus as a part of a woman's body, but a separate entity. 

 

Using phrases like vagina police makes you f***ing retarded.

Except not because for a lot of people (particularly religious ones), it's more about punishing women than preserving life.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Also the abortion measure may in fact work, because for example, Indiana has stricter abortion laws and has has a strong positive correlation with the decrease in abortions in the state

 

Shocker, telling woman they cannot use abortion as a convenient contraception method....makes them less likely to get an abortion...it's like authority has an effect

 

http://www.in.gov/isdh/20951.htm

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Except not because for a lot of people (particularly religious ones), it's more about punishing women than preserving life.

This isn't necessarily wrong. If you're of the view that abortion is illegal

 

and someone gets an abortion

 

logic would dictate some manner of penalty

 

I take issue with the more part, that's what I disagree with

[epicmemesbro]

What are your people's thoughts on laws that require that a women choosing to undergo an abortion take an ultrasound to see the unborn child?

[Tentacruel]

At least you have internal consistency. I can respect that. I might disagree, but your views aren't entirely hypocritical like a lot of people's are on the issue of abortion.

 

(Like the religious perspective, because the bible is pro-abortion.)

 

Except not because for a lot of people (particularly religious ones), it's more about punishing women than preserving life.

WELL EXCUSE ME FOR TRYING TO BE OPTIMISTIC ABOUT HUMAN DECENCY SOMETIMES.

 

My problem is when people assume the worst in someone immediately upon learning their political leaning. 

[Sunshine Jesse]

What are your people's thoughts on laws that require that a women choosing to undergo an abortion take an ultrasound to see the unborn child?

Absolutely f***ing disgusting and worse than being anti or pro abortion by several orders of magnitude.

 

This isn't necessarily wrong. If you're of the view that abortion is illegal

 

and someone gets an abortion

 

logic would dictate some manner of penalty

 

I take issue with the more part, that's what I disagree with

The anti-abortion stance is rooted in deep-seated misogyny for many people.

 

You are consistent. Many people are not. It's not out of a desire to save lives or they wouldn't be so callous towards the downtrodden. It's out of a desire to control women.

 

WELL EXCUSE ME FOR TRYING TO BE OPTIMISTIC ABOUT HUMAN DECENCY SOMETIMES.

 

My problem is when people assume the worst in someone immediately upon learning their political leaning.

There's a reason for that, though.

 

Beliefs are a package deal in far too many cases to consider it a minority. People who are anti-abortion commonly hold other stances that are just disgusting.

 

People like Winter who are anti-abortion and consistent in their logic aren't the majority.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

What's wrong with making a woman see an x-ray of her child

 

Allow me as a personal anecdote as a gun owner, it's harder to take a life when you have to realize what you're doing

 

Like there's studies showing that people will hesitate to show a human like form, when you wouldn't feel those reservations about shooting targets

 

Is it shaming a woman? Maybe? But you should absolutely be ashamed that someone who has no rights and has no options but to trust you looking out for their well being, is gonna take the fatal fall for YOU to get away with poor decision making YOU made

[a bad post]

Just like how pro-choice advocates do not view abortion as murder, pro-life advocates do not view a fetus as a part of a woman's body, but a separate entity. 

 

Using phrases like vagina police makes you f***ing retarded.

Except that exacting what it is. This is literally the policing of a woman's vagina, generally by a bunch of men who have no business saying anything on the matter quite frankly. The worst part of this argument is that men are absolved of all responsibility even though you need to tango. Like seriously it's the woman's responsibility to make sure she's having safe sex, to get tested the morning after, to carry the baby for christ's sake, and men literally have to do nothing in terms of reproductive responsibility, but then seem to have all the power in it. So, I will using the phrase vagina police no matter what you think because that's exactly what these types of laws are.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Except that exacting what it is. This is literally the policing of a woman's vagina, generally by a bunch of men who have no business saying anything on the matter quite frankly. The worst part of this argument is that men are absolved of all responsibility even though you need to tango. Like seriously it's the woman's responsibility to make sure she's having safe sex, to get tested the morning after, to carry the baby for christ's sake, and men literally have to do nothing in terms of reproductive responsibility, but then seem to have all the power in it. So, I will using the phrase vagina police no matter what you think because that's exactly what these types of laws are.

Women have a surprising hegemony over the matter actually

 

A: Cite your vagina and terminate pregnancy, father has no say in the matter here

B: Cite your vagina and keep the child, father has no say in the matter here (rightfully, because having a dick doesn't give you any special right to order an execution), and at this point, you also have control over the male's wallet for the next 18 years

 

Needless to say, women are in a pretty good spot w/ regards to the current American laws

People like Winter who are anti-abortion and consistent in their logic aren't the majority.

President and Vice President elect are, and that's what matters, not every voice has equal power in this matter

 

Obligatory call out on both PEOTUS AND VPEOTUS for subsequently being hypocritical on the matter of the Death Penalty, not directly related, but you should be pro-life, not pro-life with conditions 

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

Is it shaming a woman? Maybe? But you should absolutely be ashamed that someone who has no rights and has no options but to trust you looking out for their well being, is gonna take the fatal fall for YOU to get away with poor decision making YOU made

You're doing that thing again. Assuming your opinion of "It's morally wrong" is the correct one. Try and see it from the other side. If someone doesn't think it's a morally wrong thing to do.

 

Because pregnant women have heightened emotional reactions. And showing them this is a clear attempt to sway them in an emotional time. Sway them (remember this is looking at it from the other side) to do something that will effect their entire life due to an opinion (that it's morally wrong) that the person doesn't necessarily agree to. It's taking away the "choice" in a sense and using their emotional state to push an agenda.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

You're doing that thing again. Assuming your opinion of "It's morally wrong" is the correct one. Try and see it from the other side. If someone doesn't think it's a morally wrong thing to do.

 

Because pregnant women have heightened emotional reactions. And showing them this is a clear attempt to sway them in an emotional time. Sway them (remember this is looking at it from the other side) to do something that will effect their entire life due to an opinion (that it's morally wrong) that the person doesn't necessarily agree to. It's taking away the "choice" in a sense and using their emotional state to push an agenda.

I have acutally looked at it from the other side, there's three reasons where it should be legal

 

1) Mother has a good chance of dying from it

2) Mother was forced to become a mother 

3) Child will be born deformed and have a miserable life worse than death

 

 

You not being able to "afford" a child is not an excuse, and the government should be there to help those who are in financial need

 

It's not difficult cowcow, having sex comes with a risk of conceiving a child, when you have sex, you sign onto that risk. You can take measures to lessen that risk, but the risk stands

 

Rape is an example where the mother was not aware of the risks of the pregnancy, because she didn't agree to sex

 

Mother's & Child's health is an unforeseen situation again where the parent really had no control over the out come

 

There is no such thing as a free lunch

 

---

 

And an abortion would have a pretty cruel lasting impact on a child's health and life too lol

 

She won't die lol, the kid will. There are very few things more final and cruel than death. "Not being ready" and being low on funds isn't one of them. You'll get justly compensated for those 9 months if you can show financial need. Simple.

[Sunshine Jesse]

What's wrong with making a woman see an x-ray of her child

 

Allow me as a personal anecdote as a gun owner, it's harder to take a life when you have to realize what you're doing

 

Like there's studies showing that people will hesitate to show a human like form, when you wouldn't feel those reservations about shooting targets

 

Is it shaming a woman? Maybe? But you should absolutely be ashamed that someone who has no rights and has no options but to trust you looking out for their well being, is gonna take the fatal fall for YOU to get away with poor decision making YOU made

Because it holds no other purpose than to shame. It's a law written solely for the purpose of making people feel bad.

 

That's disgusting.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Because it holds no other purpose than to shame. It's a law written solely for the purpose of making people feel bad.

 

That's disgusting.

I'd feel ashamed after killing a helpless defenseless version of me because I couldn't deal with my actions  

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

I have a suggestion. Of course I hold no power but maybe it'll help...

 

Perhaps we can try and discuss this without mentioning "murder" or, er, "vagina police" and see where we get?
Cause it's not gonna go anywhere when every response pretty much just comes back to the same idea over and over and over.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

I would feel a sense of shame if I terminally deprived the potential of survival, though a fatal and potentially painful methodology, of a organism with the innate potential to become a healthy human, because it was inconvenient for me to acknowledge, and then take responsibility for willingly engaging in actions that had clear cut potential consequences which I was preemptively and cognitively aware of before said actions took place.

[Dad]

I can't wait till the adoption system is flooded.  I'm gonna ask Winter to adopt first.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

I can't wait till the adoption system is flooded.  I'm gonna ask Winter to adopt first.

IAC requires that adoptive parents are at least 21 years old in order to adopt.

 

In give or take 9 months I can

 

Provided this relationship doesn't erode in 3-4 months like the last few

[Yui]

I'd feel ashamed after killing a helpless defenseless version of me because I couldn't deal with my actions  

To be honest, I'd be happy to kill Helpless Defenseless Mini-Me if I didn't think Mini-Me could make it in the big bad world out there, or if I could neither afford to raise him nor put him up for adoption, or for whatever other situational reason would require we kill him. This next part is a bit unrelated at first, but I saw on the first page that you mentioned VP Whoever-The-funk talking good sheet about adoption systems. And that's great; it really is. We definitely need better adoption systems, but we also need to cut down on how many humans we already have, and how many more are to come. If you're going to make the argument of saying abortion is murder, I'll do ya one better and say going all-in pro-life is direct support for the overpopulation of Earth to an even worse extent than what we've already got.

 

And if you're going to respond to me in this thread, at least have the dignity to quote me this time. You didn't do it in the last thread and it was a real pain in the ass to check your "Wank to Trump-cave" every now and then to see if you'd answered my brief stints with disproportionately short and unsatisfactory answers.

[vla1ne]

Hopefully this'll provide a somewhat fresher view into the discussion.

 

first and foremost, i don't much like the thought of abortions, but i somewhat support the right to have one. if it's in your body, then you have a right to take it out at nearly any point in time. if that's murder in some peoples eyes, then so be it, tell them to shove it into their own bodies if they love it so much. if you're the one growing it, you have full rights to throw it out of you at pretty much any time. that being said, i still don't support having one past the first trimester, and can understand the reasoning behind six weeks bill. just because you can have an abortion, doesn't mean you should be able to wait until the third, or even second trimester to have it. this (hopefully) prompts more careful enjoyment of recreational genitalia interaction. i can understand why some people are upset though, and to that i would likely support not making it illegal, but simply no longer supporting the expense off of any government funding. that way those who want one past 6 weeks/ first term can go and do it with their own funds, and those who monitor their bodies more carefully will be covered in case something, somehow goes wrong.

 

as for the forced ultrasound before aborting, how is that cruel? because it makes you look at what you're doing? instead of blindly barging into it? if you can't even look at what you're aborting before getting an abortion, then why should you be allowed to throw it out as you please? i think it'd result in more careful sex escapades.

 

something I've got against this bill though is that it sounds as if it were pushed through as quickly as possible before any real opposition or examination could be levied towards it. so i suspect there'll be fine print, or something else similarly unpleasant down the line in relation to this bill. 

[a bad post]

Hopefully this'll provide a somewhat fresher view into the discussion.

 

first and foremost, i don't much like the thought of abortions, but i somewhat support the right to have one. if it's in your body, then you have a right to take it out at nearly any point in time. if that's murder in some peoples eyes, then so be it, tell them to shove it into their own bodies if they love it so much. if you're the one growing it, you have full rights to throw it out of you at pretty much any time. that being said, i still don't support having one past the first trimester, and can understand the reasoning behind six weeks bill. just because you can have an abortion, doesn't mean you should be able to wait until the third, or even second trimester to have it. this (hopefully) prompts more careful enjoyment of recreational genitalia interaction. i can understand why some people are upset though, and to that i would likely support not making it illegal, but simply no longer supporting the expense off of any government funding. that way those who want one past 6 weeks/ first term can go and do it with their own funds, and those who monitor their bodies more carefully will be covered in case something, somehow goes wrong.

 

as for the forced ultrasound before aborting, how is that cruel? because it makes you look at what you're doing? instead of blindly barging into it? if you can't even look at what you're aborting before getting an abortion, then why should you be allowed to throw it out as you please? i think it'd result in more careful sex escapades.

 

something I've got against this bill though is that it sounds as if it were pushed through as quickly as possible before any real opposition or examination could be levied towards it. so i suspect there'll be fine print, or something else similarly unpleasant down the line in relation to this bill. 

First of all, most women don't even know they're pregnant for the first 4 - 6 weeks, and like I said stats will prove to you that "more careful enjoyment of recreational genitalia interaction" happens when abortions are made readily available without a million and a half hoops to jump through or Christian doctors trying to block you at every possible avenue, or in the case of some people straight up denying services they should be providing you.

 

Also like I said this idea of people just carelessly getting abortions left and right, and blindly barging into it has no factual or statistical basis. You are creating a mass narrative based on your own personal perceptions/experiences without wanting to see the other side of the story.

[Dad]

"Recreational genitalia interaction."

 

Vlaine you couldn't have just said sex, could you?  

[Sunshine Jesse]

I'd feel ashamed after killing a helpless defenseless version of me because I couldn't deal with my actions  

It's not a matter of what you'd feel.

 

It's a hard enough decision to make for a lot of people. It doesn't need to be made worse.

 

Laws aren't to be used for making people feel bad. That's absolutely disgusting.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

It's not a matter of what you'd feel.

 

It's a hard enough decision to make for a lot of people. It doesn't need to be made worse.

 

Laws aren't to be used for making people feel bad. That's absolutely disgusting.

You're extinguishing an organism's chance at survival. That's not supposed to be an easy or encouraged choice. Again, it's no different than somone on life support with a high chance of recovery being pulled for convenience

 

Judge has to be present at death sentence carry out, why shouldn't a woman be educated on what she's doing?

[Tentacruel]

Guys I have an idea.

 

Let's make abortion completely legal in all cases, but only the father can decide.

 

 

 

Everyone loses.