Monster effect that treats them as other type while in non-public knowledge area?

[kevintriedge]

Can a monster with such effect exist? If I want to make such a card, do they have to go to Experimental, or can they be posted in Advanced if I word the effect correctly?

 

For example, a Warrior-type (printed) monster with the effect "This card is also always treated as Spellcaster-type."

 

It can be searched with Reinforcement of the Army, of course. But can it be Summoned using Magician's Circle?

 

How to word them correctly?

 

Also, if there is another original card that specifically searches for a monster with dual typing (because of the discussed effect), for example "Add 1 monster with an effect that treats it as Spellcaster-type, from your Deck to your hand." Would this be a correct wording?

[Azuriena]

This looks like a good idea / good wording. Thanks!

You're welcome! Although the thing about this wording is that even if the card is printed with "Spellcaster" in its Type line and "This card is also always treated as Warrior-Type" in its card text, it can still be searched by that effect. But this is the correct way to treat conditions such as these that modify the original Types of the card. (Incidentally, perhaps original Type should be specified? As in "This card's original Type is also always ...") There should be no difference from the card being printed with two Types in its Type line.

 

Also, I looked into it a bit more, and I think Simorgh, Bird of Ancestry can be an example of a card with effect that applies in non- public knowledge area? Not sure if my question and Simorgh can be compared though, feel free to argue if it's a valid comparison or not.

 

There's another in Spirit Dragon of White, from the top of my head. It is perfectly possible to have card effects applied in places that are not public knowledge.

 

The difference is that one is a card effect and the other is a condition that treats the card as if it was actually printed with two Types. A card effect can be negated (say, Dragon Spirit of White's in the Graveyard by Dark Ruler Ha Des). A condition cannot be.

[Dova]

Can a monster with such effect exist? If I want to make such a card, do they have to go to Experimental, or can they be posted in Advanced if I word the effect correctly?

 

For example, a Warrior-type (printed) monster with the effect "This card is also always treated as Spellcaster-type."

 

It can be searched with Reinforcement of the Army, of course. But can it be Summoned using Magician's Circle?

 

How to word them correctly?

 

Also, if there is another original card that specifically searches for a monster with dual typing (because of the discussed effect), for example "Add 1 monster with an effect that treats it as Spellcaster-type, from your Deck to your hand." Would this be a correct wording?

 

You already have the 3 Legendary Dragon spells, which always treat themselves as a different name. Not a far leap to go imo. See them for OCG.

 

As for the searching, you could either do that (unsure on its specific OCG) or do "You can add 1 Spellcaster-Type and Warrior-Type monster from your Deck to your hand." At least, I think that works.

 

Wait for a mod for confirmation, though.

[kevintriedge]

Yeah, I am aware of the cards that treat their names as something else, but in the real cards there hasn't been a card that treats them as a different type or Attribute while in non-public knowledge area. Even the ones that has dual+ Attribute (Light and Darkness Dragon, Doriado, etc.) only do that while on the field. So, yeah... I wonder if it can be done or it has to be considered Experimental.

 

Thanks for the insight though!

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

I would probably keep it in Experimental for the time being, since it is something that hasn't been explored just yet. Granted, you can just put an always condition at the start of the effect ("This card is also always treated as Spellcaster-Type" or something) and that's about it.

 

You could probably place it in the other areas, but err on the side of caution for now. (Other than this, card would still follow existing principles)

[Azuriena]

There is enough precedent for it to be in Advanced imo. We know how monsters with multiple Attributes, as well as cards with conditions that modify their characteristics regardless of location, behave. There should be no issues figuring out how such a card would interact with any other given card. Something like this really isn't on the level of other Experimental concepts, and there have been more dubious concepts found in Advanced. Not that these are justifications.

 

I don't think it's a good idea to throw just any concept without a distinct precedent into Experimental. Card designers should be allowed to design creative mechanics and explore wider design space without them being relegated to a section that's meant to be reserved for concepts that are so out there that we either don't know how it would interact with other mechanics, or the designer has to create a lot of new rulings for it to work.

 

As for writing the card, it's unlikely to be an effect, but rather a condition that reads along the lines of "(This card is also always treated as Spellcaster-Type.)" Then you may or may not follow it with a line break. As for interacting specifically with monsters with multiple Types, maybe something along the lines of "Add 1 Spellcaster-Type monster that is also another Type from your Deck to your hand."

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

Recall that I never said that he COULDN'T, but rather that if he wishes to err on the side of caution, Experimental or even Casual is fine. Otherwise, everything else follows usual mechanics and could go into Advanced (provided you can give the necessary info required for the section).

 

tl;dr, you can post this kind of stuff in Advanced, but make sure you justify the design.

[Azuriena]

Recall that I never said that he COULDN'T, but rather that if he wishes to err on the side of caution, Experimental or even Casual is fine.

Of course. My post was about why he shouldn't post in Experimental, not that it should be made so that he could post in Advanced.

[kevintriedge]

As for interacting specifically with monsters with multiple Types, maybe something along the lines of "Add 1 Spellcaster-Type monster that is also another Type from your Deck to your hand."

 

This looks like a good idea / good wording. Thanks!

 

Also, I looked into it a bit more, and I think Simorgh, Bird of Ancestry can be an example of a card with effect that applies in non- public knowledge area? Not sure if my question and Simorgh can be compared though, feel free to argue if it's a valid comparison or not.