Ryusei the Morning Star Posted December 1, 2016 Report Share Posted December 1, 2016 So for this list, this is gonna be a more of what I want list, rather than what will fully happen (cause Jan lists tend to not be big shifts) Banned: Pot of Desires (from unlimited) - Generic Pot of greed clone that's still in everything. Burn it with fire Limited: Tempest, Dragon Ruler of Infernos (from forbidden) Redox/Reactant + Mezuki/Gozuki is badBlaster/Sparks + Infernoids/Shirinui is badTidal/Stream+Mermail/Frogs/Atlantean is bad Tribe Infecting Virus (from forbidden) Difficult to search lightning vortex, power-creeped by new removal cards w/o IP It's a niche card if anything Performage Damajuggler (from forbidden) More Mage cards being made, Clown isn't that amazing anymore. Chain is banned. Won't suddenly make LS meta. Brifu becomes a little better. Witch of the Black Forest (from forbidden) Sangan's errata was brutal. Metalphosis might run it. But they dropped Stein when they had it at three. And they can search most things like Jowgen with Sangan. Dark Magician can summon it I guess. But it's slow these days. Yata-Garasu (from forbidden) Slow, requires normal, vulnerable, needs massive field presence to back it. If you're gonna lose to Yata Peck, you've lost already. Espirits get a nice little bonus Time Seal (from forbidden) Worse Yata Destiny Hero - Disk Commander (from forbidden) More incentive to play D-Heros, awkward outside of the Mali, DC, Plague play for Trish. Reborn and Soul Charge Misses timing with CoTH, so Kinka plays are about it El-Shaddoll Construct (from forbidden) Shaddoll still suck, will move Shaddolls up a tier and open a lot of doors for them. But it's unlikely that plays that were decent in early 2015 are still so is unlikely. It'll be amazing given the Envoys at multiples, BriFu, Hand Traps, LV8, Super Poly, and Clowns. But Shaddolls won't get better w/o it Speedroid Terrortop (from unlimited) Opens up easy rank 3s in a lot decks. Zodiac is the straw that broke the camels back ABC- Dragon Buster (from unlimited) The card being limited makes the deck invest cards like Reborn, also the ability of the deck to dodge backrow is lowered. Overall makes the tag effect strategic instead of a luxuary Treatoad(from unlimited) - The problem isn't dealing with this card, it's dealing with multiples Semi-Limits REDMD (from limited) - Mainstream Dragon decks don't use it. It's the last dreg of the 2012 meta that's still restricted Genex Ally Birdman (from limited) - FTK won't work w/o Divine Wind and Fenix at multiples, good generic tuner moving up Dandylion (from limited) - Plants Synchro isn't meta anymore, like REDMD it's backing off the 2012 massacre Nekroz of Brionac (from limited) - there are 5 Nekroz cards on the list at the moment. Shruit, Brio, Unicore, Prep of Rites, Nekroz cycle Shruit makes the high level Nekroz with no dedication and gives a free search, it can stay at 1 Unicore invalidates the extra deck and gets a free search off scope, it too can stay at 1 Cycle makes very easy Djinn locks with claus Prep is a double searcher that can recycle cycle Nekroz of Brio is best option to help Nekroz out a bit Dragon Ravine (from limited) - Help Felgrand, Blue Eyes don't run it Ring of Destruction (from limited) - the burn damage capabilities doesn't offset the weakness that it targets and destroys. Also it's got a hard OPT Zoodiac Marmorat (from unlimited) - need 3 for the spash engine to go off Unlimited: Goyo Guardian (from forbidden) Trash Magician of Faith (from limited) Inferior version of cards already at three. AKA. Trash Artifact Moralltach (from semi-limited) people played only 1 even after it went to 2 Mezuki (from semi-limited) - the third copy makes zombies more consistent, but with Omega limited the spam omega fields wont happen Reborn Tengu (from semi-limited) -plant synchro is dead Star Seraph Sovereignty (from semi-limited) - not entirely sure on this one, star dolls (and heros) did tier 0 the format once upon a time, but the loss of shock master hurts the rank 4 3 mat pool. Don't seem like too big of deal in all honesty. More than likely. Construct won't move and this will Mathematician (from semi-limited) - normal summon requirement sets is apart from AGK or Foolish Burial, the battle floating effect is weaker now than it was in 2015 when the card was limited. Still no shaddoll resurgence with it going to 2 Inzektor Dragonfly (from semi-limited) - no Inzektor resurgence from it's movement to 2. Deck is powercreeped. Gishki Gustkraken (from semi-limited) - it's been at 2 for over a year. Hieratic Gishki isn't going to take the meta by storm El-Shaddoll Fusion (from semi-limited) - 5 Fusion + Super poly is the ideal ratio, it's hard to OTK with 1 construct TL:DR version Banned: None Limited: Tempest, Dragon Ruler of InfernosTribe Infecting Virus Performage DamajugglerWitch of the Black ForestYata-Garasu Time SealDestiny Hero - Disk Commander El-Shaddoll ConstructSpeedroid Terrortop ABC- Dragon Buster Treatoad Semi-Limits REDMDDandylion Nekroz of Brionac Dragon RavineRing of Destruction Zoodiac Marmorat Unlimited: Goyo Guardian Magician of Faith Artifact MoralltachMezukiReborn Tengu Star Seraph Sovereignty MathematicianInzektor DragonflyGishki GustkrakenEl-Shaddoll Fusion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted December 1, 2016 Report Share Posted December 1, 2016 Not reading it all, just wanna comment on Zoodiac. Rat semi just means the viper variant gets better ,doesn't solve the problem. Hitting Terrortop is worse than banning Taketomborg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryusei the Morning Star Posted December 1, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2016 Not reading it all, just wanna comment on Zoodiac. Rat semi just means the viper variant gets better ,doesn't solve the problem. Hitting Terrortop is worse than banning Taketomborg.How about rat limit then? Taket helps actual speedroids more than terror would. It TGU was hit for easy r3nk access, why should a no-normal version be at three? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted December 1, 2016 Report Share Posted December 1, 2016 How about rat limit then? Taket helps actual speedroids more than terror would. It TGU was hit for easy r3nk access, why should a no-normal version be at three?Viper version is 2 Viper, 3 Triangle, 3-4 ED Zoodiac, so... Honestly have to make 2 hits in order to get it done, and limiting Viper won't work, because yu really only need 1 viper for that, 2 is just better than thorough + viper. Because it takes a normal without Taketomborg, for a target that's worse on its own than TGU's targets. And hitting terrortop definitely hurts the deck more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryusei the Morning Star Posted December 1, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2016 Viper version is 2 Viper, 3 Triangle, 3-4 ED Zoodiac, so... Honestly have to make 2 hits in order to get it done, and limiting Viper won't work, because yu really only need 1 viper for that, 2 is just better than thorough + viper. Because it takes a normal without Taketomborg, for a target that's worse on its own than TGU's targets. And hitting terrortop definitely hurts the deck more.If I recall correctly, they recently got a guy who can ss if you control no monsters. The wind witch build already covers the Terrortop niche. But it could happen. I suppose they need to ban one card every list Speaking of a card to ban, I almost forgot Cupidity/Desires can go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Βyakuya Posted December 1, 2016 Report Share Posted December 1, 2016 If anything the consistency of the Zodiac engine is what should be hit. It's already hard to work around 3 Rats and a Drancia, but the thing that makes the deck very effective is how consistently easy it is for the Deck to always open with a Rat by drawing 12 possible cards. Possibly a sensible hit for that matter would be Limiting the Triangle and maybe Semi'ing the Top. You would still need get your play by drawing into a Rat NS, but at the very least it would be harder to draw into Tops and Triangle so you would have to waste your NS. This can potentially make decks with the Zodiac engine more economical and rely more on their own support cards, and decks like Metalfoes will still have edge with this engine. I really don't think nothing from here should be banned or hit to hard except for Triangle. The pure deck itself already has big weaknesses if Drancia can be avoided and resources can't easily return, especially by a Torrential or even a Chain Destruction. What needs to calm down are these linear and constant first turn Drancia + R4 + Misc play + Backrow every time, but at the same time Zodiacs open a lot for decks to use that extra R4 and as long as it isn't a necessary win condition, Zodiacs can be effectively used as a support tool. That's all I gotta say about Zodiac Beasts. On the other hand, I can understand some of these cards you want off the list, but there are some choices you make that I cannot grasp at all, let alone unbanning these all at once. Tribe Infecting doesn't necessarily have to stay in a single niche and stay there. It still is highly viable as a tech card, can send anything from hand to proc its effect, and basically wipe out everything (which can include you), and also proc off that. Not to mention that you don't see a OPT clause anywhere on it? -1 board clearance can still be a bit costly but under the right circumstances this card may be too powerful and for safety should just stay where it is until we get a get a meta where everything is regenerative and floaty af. Time Seal is still dumb af. It just increases the pressure for you to win the die roll and is a good incentive overall. You win the roll? Draw into Seal? Now you can make a floodgatey or defensive board and force your opponent to lose advantage to possibly not draw into their cards to out you. Suddenly you're more of a dick than you already are. Especially when you can get away with a few normal traps nowadays, even though it can be slow and requires setup, locking that advantage gain hurts a lot to secure your position. Witch won't ever return unless there's some unexpected errata or somehow the searchpool for this card decreases. Speed is one thing and using a summon for this is another, but I think all the trending OCG decks can use this in a way. It's just not safe. Just imagine Disk Commander and abusing it with De-Synchro and Formula in something like Dark Synchros. Somewhat becomes a degenerate replacement for Level Eater. It's still viable for other OTKs and FTKs and with the genericness of it, its lack of OPT, and ever-so much revival support now, this is not good to give regular D Heroes play. ABCs and Treatoad have diminishing relevancy. They're classified in the rogue category, and have had their chance to get hit a while ago. Sure they might be strong bosses, but Reaper and a sheet ton of other side deck cards exist for a reason. Both bosses have no excessive abuse, can easily be baited, and has little application outside their own deck and sub-variants. We need them to make the metagame a little more diverse to fare against Zodiacs you know. I'm only gonna call out against Tempest, because it doesn't seem fair and it just seems awkward. Better safe to keep it with his bros and prevent any potential abuse. Even though I would appreciate it, Construct should still remain asleep for a little longer. Pairing with Eidolons can probably make Merkabah or Elysion more stronger and Construct can deal with them easier with her effect or simply by Super Poly. Shaddolls won't get too strong but possibly hybrids might get more fluidity or strength. Though honestly I might not 100% know. It might seem a bit premature to be honest, but it may be ok and tame. Only issue is that you're planning to bring Clown and Sovereignty back with her in a meta with Super Poly and 2 BLSes, and that might be just too scary. Mathematician should stay Limited. I know you want your precious dolls back, but this is just asking for too much. Math guy and clowns was one of the reasons why the deck was shafted along with Construct, or at least that's what I know in TCG when I played it. Either way Math dude is dumb having good odds opening it and Foolishing a card. Even though it might be innocuous it doesn't right especially for non-realistic and out of the ordinary Shaddoll comeback. Finally Pot of Desires is already pretty punishing, but a ban seems too harsh. Limit to semi is fine to prevent easily stacking cards in your opening play and the banish 10 already punishes enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryusei the Morning Star Posted December 1, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2016 If anything the consistency of the Zodiac engine is what should be hit. It's already hard to work around 3 Rats and a Drancia, but the thing that makes the deck very effective is how consistently easy it is for the Deck to always open with a Rat by drawing 12 possible cards. Possibly a sensible hit for that matter would be Limiting the Triangle and maybe Semi'ing the Top. You would still need get your play by drawing into a Rat NS, but at the very least it would be harder to draw into Tops and Triangle so you would have to waste your NS. This can potentially make decks with the Zodiac engine more economical and rely more on their own support cards, and decks like Metalfoes will still have edge with this engine. I really don't think nothing from here should be banned or hit to hard except for Triangle. The pure deck itself already has big weaknesses if Drancia can be avoided and resources can't easily return, especially by a Torrential or even a Chain Destruction. What needs to calm down are these linear and constant first turn Drancia + R4 + Misc play + Backrow every time, but at the same time Zodiacs open a lot for decks to use that extra R4 and as long as it isn't a necessary win condition, Zodiacs can be effectively used as a support tool. That's all I gotta say about Zodiac Beasts. On the other hand, I can understand some of these cards you want off the list, but there are some choices you make that I cannot grasp at all, let alone unbanning these all at once. Tribe Infecting doesn't necessarily have to stay in a single niche and stay there. It still is highly viable as a tech card, can send anything from hand to proc its effect, and basically wipe out everything (which can include you), and also proc off that. Not to mention that you don't see a OPT clause anywhere on it? -1 board clearance can still be a bit costly but under the right circumstances this card may be too powerful and for safety should just stay where it is until we get a get a meta where everything is regenerative and floaty af. Time Seal is still dumb af. It just increases the pressure for you to win the die roll and is a good incentive overall. You win the roll? Draw into Seal? Now you can make a floodgatey or defensive board and force your opponent to lose advantage to possibly not draw into their cards to out you. Suddenly you're more of a dick than you already are. Especially when you can get away with a few normal traps nowadays, even though it can be slow and requires setup, locking that advantage gain hurts a lot to secure your position. Witch won't ever return unless there's some unexpected errata or somehow the searchpool for this card decreases. Speed is one thing and using a summon for this is another, but I think all the trending OCG decks can use this in a way. It's just not safe. Just imagine Disk Commander and abusing it with De-Synchro and Formula in something like Dark Synchros. Somewhat becomes a degenerate replacement for Level Eater. It's still viable for other OTKs and FTKs and with the genericness of it, its lack of OPT, and ever-so much revival support now, this is not good to give regular D Heroes play. ABCs and Treatoad have diminishing relevancy. They're classified in the rogue category, and have had their chance to get hit a while ago. Sure they might be strong bosses, but Reaper and a sheet ton of other side deck cards exist for a reason. Both bosses have no excessive abuse, can easily be baited, and has little application outside their own deck and sub-variants. We need them to make the metagame a little more diverse to fare against Zodiacs you know. I'm only gonna call out against Tempest, because it doesn't seem fair and it just seems awkward. Better safe to keep it with his bros and prevent any potential abuse. Even though I would appreciate it, Construct should still remain asleep for a little longer. Pairing with Eidolons can probably make Merkabah or Elysion more stronger and Construct can deal with them easier with her effect or simply by Super Poly. Shaddolls won't get too strong but possibly hybrids might get more fluidity or strength. Though honestly I might not 100% know. It might seem a bit premature to be honest, but it may be ok and tame. Only issue is that you're planning to bring Clown and Sovereignty back with her in a meta with Super Poly and 2 BLSes, and that might be just too scary. Mathematician should stay Limited. I know you want your precious dolls back, but this is just asking for too much. Math guy and clowns was one of the reasons why the deck was shafted along with Construct, or at least that's what I know in TCG when I played it. Either way Math dude is dumb having good odds opening it and Foolishing a card. Even though it might be innocuous it doesn't right especially for non-realistic and out of the ordinary Shaddoll comeback. Finally Pot of Desires is already pretty punishing, but a ban seems too harsh. Limit to semi is fine to prevent easily stacking cards in your opening play and the banish 10 already punishes enough.I mean I did premise that this was a more of want list, rather than 100% what I think will happen. Would you like to see a more realistic list from me? Because I wouldn't do half those unbans tbh Banned: Vanity's Emptiness Limited: Speedroid Terrortop Anti-Spell Fragrance Zoodiac Marmorat Semi-Limits Dandylion Nekroz of Brionac Magician of FaithDragon RavineRing of Destruction Unlimited: Artifact MoralltachMezukiReborn Tengu Star Seraph Sovereignty Inzektor DragonflyGishki Gustkraken To help Destiny Heroes, I would actually move Shadow Mist to 2, and limit Bubbleman. That kills the treatoad plays a bit (without Instant) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Βyakuya Posted December 1, 2016 Report Share Posted December 1, 2016 I mean I did premise that this was a more of want list, rather than 100% what I think will happen. Would you like to see a more realistic list from me? Because I wouldn't do half those unbans tbh Banned: Vanity's Emptiness Limited: Speedroid Terrortop Anti-Spell Fragrance Zoodiac Marmorat Semi-Limits Dandylion Nekroz of Brionac Magician of FaithDragon RavineRing of Destruction Unlimited: Artifact MoralltachMezukiReborn Tengu Star Seraph Sovereignty Inzektor DragonflyGishki Gustkraken To help Destiny Heroes, I would actually move Shadow Mist to 2, and limit Bubbleman. That kills the treatoad plays a bit (without Instant)Pardon my ignorance for that, now I know you were really biased, but this realistic lost seems ok. Bubbleman really shouldn't be hit and neither should Shadow Mist anymore tbh. Treatoad Heroes are doing fine here in TCG but not too big of a meta impact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryusei the Morning Star Posted December 1, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2016 Pardon my ignorance for that, now I know you were really biased, but this realistic lost seems ok. Bubbleman really shouldn't be hit and neither should Shadow Mist anymore tbh. Treatoad Heroes are doing fine here in TCG but not too big of a meta impact.I honestly have no idea what the january and july lists might give us 2015 Jan list was the big errata dump with close to 25 changes 2016 Jan list was the ban of the mages and shocky, so 3 hits and I haven't been playing much :/ We'll have to see lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryusei the Morning Star Posted December 3, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 3, 2016 Monster RebornRed-Eyes Darkness Metal DragonDandylionElemental HERO StratosMagician of FaithHarpie’s Feather DusterMezukiBlack Luster Soldier – Envoy of the Beginning All being reprinted Bold likely won't move, though they've both drastically dropped in power recently Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaiji Posted December 3, 2016 Report Share Posted December 3, 2016 >Recently Nig they've been weak for ages even relegated to thr Side during demise era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryusei the Morning Star Posted December 6, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2016 >RecentlyNig they've been weak for ages even relegated to thr Side during demise era.This is trueReborn dropped in power since themed searchable copies came out TwiTwi and ASF killed Dusty It's gonna be one of those lists Like Top limited Gate/Rat limited And that's it. They seem to hate doing big changes in Jan/July @Black, I'm aware of the viper build, they wanna slap the deck, not kill it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryusei the Morning Star Posted December 14, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 14, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryusei the Morning Star Posted December 14, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 14, 2016 Newly Forbidden:Majespecter Unicorn – Kirin Newly Limited:Speedroid TerrortopRescue CatGoyo GuardianDewloren, Tiger King of the Ice BarrierBrionac, Dragon of the Ice BarrierToadally AwesomeFire Formation – TenkiUnion HangarBrain ControlFuture FusionImperial Order Newly Semi-Limited:Magician of FaithDandylion Newly Unlimited:Inzektor DragonflyStar Seraph SovereigntyMathmaticiainMezukiEl Shaddoll Fusion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darj Posted December 14, 2016 Report Share Posted December 14, 2016 Is that list official?Damn, just when I recently started to have fun in building decks that splash Bahamut Shark and OCG limits Toadally; I hope TCG doesn't follow on its steps. At least Toadally can return itself back into the Extra Deck with its floating effect.They hit both Tenki and Terrortop in order to hold back Zoodiacs, instead of hitting the Triangle; I wonder what was the reasoning behind that decision. Wish they had left Tenki untouched to support the non-Zoodiac Beast-Warriors.And Kirin remained so much of a problem that they resorted to banning it? That's kinda funny xD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryusei the Morning Star Posted December 14, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 14, 2016 Is that list official?Damn, just when I recently started to have fun in building decks that splash Bahamut Shark and OCG limits Toadally; I hope TCG doesn't follow on its steps. At least Toadally can return itself back into the Extra Deck with its floating effect.They hit both Tenki and Terrortop in order to hold back Zoodiacs, instead of hitting the Triangle; I wonder what was the reasoning behind that decision. Wish they had left Tenki untouched to support the non-Zoodiac Beast-Warriors.And Kirin remained so much of a problem that they resorted to banning it? That's kinda funny xDMultiple Toads isn't exactly fair But yes, list is confirmed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darj Posted December 14, 2016 Report Share Posted December 14, 2016 There are many unfair things in YGO; Toadally should have remained as 1 of those unfair things :v Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryusei the Morning Star Posted December 14, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 14, 2016 There are many unfair things in YGO; Toadally should have remained as 1 of those unfair things :vAny particular reason why you believe that beyond you wanting it personally? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darj Posted December 14, 2016 Report Share Posted December 14, 2016 Any particular reason why you believe that beyond you wanting it personally? Uh, I was mostly kidding, hence the :v at the end. But to answer the question, no; I just like having fun with Bahamut Shark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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