Political Ideology

[a bad post]

Politifact is every bit as problematic as Snopes, complete with their own "Truth-O-Meter". The article in question is just a California Democrat directing you to the exact same passage we just went over and making the same reach that he was referring to conversion therapy in spite of that not having been stated, with Politifact co-signing because they can. 

Except you don't need either site to prove Mike Pence is a homophobic jabroni. He has described marriage equality as being the advent of societal collapse and tried to make it a felony for same-sex couples to apply for a marriage license in Indiana. He also said that being gay was a choice and that keeping same-sex couples from marrying was a way of keeping to "God's idea".

 

Also the quote about wanting to provide resources for people to "change their sexual behavior" was because he wanted to ensure that "federal dollars were no longer being given to organizations that celebrate and encourage the types of behaviors that facilitate the spreading of the HIV virus" which while not explicitly homophobic did cause an HIV epidemic.

 

These are his own words and actions, but yeah people have no reason to feel threatened by Mike Pence

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Except you don't need either site to prove Mike Pence is a homophobic jabroni. He has described marriage equality as being the advent of societal collapse and tried to make it a felony for same-sex couples to apply for a marriage license in Indiana. He also said that being gay was a choice and that keeping same-sex couples from marrying was a way of keeping to "God's idea".

 

Also the quote about wanting to provide resources for people to "change their sexual behavior" was because he wanted to ensure that "federal dollars were no longer being given to organizations that celebrate and encourage the types of behaviors that facilitate the spreading of the HIV virus" which while not explicitly homophobic did cause an HIV epidemic.

 

These are his own words and actions, but yeah people have no reason to feel threatened by Mike Pence

You have no right to stop someone who wants to attempt to change their orientation from attempting to do so

 

Pence's statement on conversion was entirely dependent on an individual asking for it in the first place. 

 

A lot of people were against the legality of gay marriage back in 2000, including your dearly beloved President Obama

[Sunshine Jesse]

You're delusional if you thing politifact has a conservative skew

More projection from Trump supporters, what else is new?

 

The dude who wrote the article on Trump's statement literally just guessed where Trump got the number from because Trump didn't provide it himself. The one who wrote the Bernie article actually provided where Bernie found his number from:

 

http://www.epi.org/blog/young-black-high-school-grads-face-astonishing-underemployment/

 

You have no right to stop someone who wants to attempt to change their orientation from attempting to do so

 

Pence's statement on conversion was entirely dependent on an individual asking for it in the first place. 

 

A lot of people were against the legality of gay marriage back in 2000, including your dearly beloved President Obama

except Pence has shown no indication of changing his opinion, or even lying about it for the sake of public support like you might be able to argue for Obama, Hillary, etc etc

 

He's completely unapologetic about it.

[Phantom Roxas]

You have no right to stop someone who wants to attempt to change their orientation from attempting to do so

 

Pence's statement on conversion was entirely dependent on an individual asking for it in the first place. 

 

A lot of people were against the legality of gay marriage back in 2000, including your dearly beloved President Obama

 

Pence doesn't care whether or not that person wants it, and I doubt that he was being entirely honest. It's more like parents who want their kids to change, but the kids themselves don't want to change, and Pence doesn't care about the difference. Not to mention what I brought up about him repeatedly trying to sabotage a dying woman's same-sex marriage, and even tried to suspend her emergency rights.

 

A lot of people were against it. Past tense. Pence, however, still is. Again, like Jesse said, others have changed, but Pence has not. You are using a false equivalence.

[a bad post]

You have no right to stop someone who wants to attempt to change their orientation from attempting to do so

 

Pence's statement on conversion was entirely dependent on an individual asking for it in the first place. 

 

A lot of people were against the legality of gay marriage back in 2000, including your dearly beloved President Obama

The legitimacy of your comparison between Obama and Pence is totally blown out of the water considering Pence has as recently as this year made anti-lgbt statements such as opposing the transgender bathroom directive, but since I don't suppose you'd care about that, he also signed the Religious Freedom Restoration Act in March 2015 which basically gave businesses free reign to discriminate against lgbt people under the banner of "religious freedom". 

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

He also signed a bill a week later protecting LBG from discrimination

Plus they had enough votes to override his veto in 2015. Instead of attacking pence, attack the people who authored the bill

You realize that y'all putting so much emphasis on this bathroom issue is what lost you this election right? Most Americans don't give a flying funk if you don't make it one. No, I don't care TBH. Just piss and get out.

If you look like a guy, piss in the men's room. If you look like a chick piss in the woman's room. If you're a guy with a neckbeard and potbelly wearing a skirt. Hold it till you get home.

Common sense would go a long way if you'd look past this silly "social justice" crusade

 

Funny thing about Trans rights, in those opinion polls, they always lead with questions about gay marriage, then ask questions about L, G, B, and T as one unit. It's a very clever use of association bias

 

Anyway, I'm of the I'm of the "piss wherever the funk people won't notice or care. You're a goddamn adult" group

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

except Pence has shown no indication of changing his opinion, or even lying about it for the sake of public support like you might be able to argue for Obama, Hillary, etc etc

 

He's completely unapologetic about it.

 

Lying about one's opinion for the sake of public support is hardly virtuous. It would absolutely be easier for Pence to "get with the times", but he chose not to, which is demonstrative of his conviction.

[cr47t]

Allow me to chime in on this topic about Pence and his views on LGBTQs;

 

I disagree with those views of his. Religious freedom is a constitutional right, but using your constitutional rights (religious freedom, in this case) as a banner to discriminate against others (LGBTQs, in this case) is not a constitutional right in and of itself. As far as I am concerned, there is a limit to how far-reaching your constitutional rights can go, and that limit is when they start infringing on other people's consitutional rights - once that starts happening, your constitutional rights are no longer a valid reason for that. Pence doesn't seem to get this concept, which is ironic since he also seems to be big on the evangelical demographic's main message, which is the teachings of Jesus. As far as I remember one of Jesus's main teachings was to treat others like your neighbor (I don't remember the exact quote but I think it was something along those lines), which from my point of view would conflict with Pence's anti-LGBTQ stances in some way.

 

This is just my opinion -- feel free to disagree if you wish to do so.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Lying about one's opinion for the sake of public support is hardly virtuous. It would absolutely be easier for Pence to "get with the times", but he chose not to, which is demonstrative of his conviction.

Did he even do this? I don't recall him disparaging gay marriage recently.

 

Don't bring up the RNC platform, Pence nor Trump had anything to do with that. Manafort, on Trump's orders, got a friendly stance with Russia and Glass-Steagall re-added, but that's it

 

The best you can say is that they don't prioritize LGB rights over averting Nuclear war and another bank crisis...

Allow me to chime in on this topic about Pence and his views on LGBTQs;

 

I disagree with those views of his. Religious freedom is a constitutional right, but using your constitutional rights (religious freedom, in this case) as a banner to discriminate against others (LGBTQs, in this case) is not a constitutional right in and of itself. As far as I am concerned, there is a limit to how far-reaching your constitutional rights can go, and that limit is when they start infringing on other people's consitutional rights - once that starts happening, your constitutional rights are no longer a valid reason for that. Pence doesn't seem to get this concept, which is ironic since he also seems to be big on the evangelical demographic's main message, which is the teachings of Jesus. As far as I remember one of Jesus's main teachings was to treat others like your neighbor (I don't remember the exact quote but I think it was something along those lines), which from my point of view would conflict with Pence's anti-LGBTQ stances in some way.

 

This is just my opinion -- feel free to disagree if you wish to do so.

again, they had enough votes to override his veto if we're talking about the 2015 bill...so deal with the lawmakers first

[vla1ne]

 

again, they had enough votes to override his veto if we're talking about the 2015 bill...so deal with the lawmakers first

Why not fire at all of those involved? pence for making it, and the supporters for supporting it? blame doesn't have to be mutually exclusive.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Why not fire at all of those involved? pence for making it, and the supporters for supporting it? blame doesn't have to be mutually exclusive.

Fair

But that's not what's happening

[Phantom Roxas]

He also signed a bill a week later protecting LBG from discrimination

 

Plus they had enough votes to override his veto in 2015. Instead of attacking pence, attack the people who authored the bill

 

You realize that y'all putting so much emphasis on this bathroom issue is what lost you this election right? Most Americans don't give a flying funk if you don't make it one. No, I don't care TBH. Just piss and get out.

 

If you look like a guy, piss in the men's room. If you look like a chick piss in the woman's room. If you're a guy with a neckbeard and potbelly wearing a skirt. Hold it till you get home.

 

Common sense would go a long way if you'd look past this silly "social justice" crusade

 

Funny thing about Trans rights, in those opinion polls, they always lead with questions about gay marriage, then ask questions about L, G, B, and T as one unit. It's a very clever use of association bias

 

Anyway, I'm of the I'm of the "piss wherever the funk people won't notice or care. You're a goddamn adult" group

 

Pence signed that bill only because there was so much backlash and he caved in, not because he actually gave a damn about protecting LGBT, but because he didn't like being pressured.

 

We put so much emphasis on the bathroom issue because the GOP made it an issue, so I don't believe that's why we lost the election. The GOP doesn't care what you look like. They insisted on the birth certificates. And once again, all you do is mock people for responding, so stop insulting people's common sense and calling their responses "silly". Instead of mocking people for reacting, make an effort to look at what they're responding to. Why should people have to consider going where people won't notice or care? The GOP went out of its way to make sure that people notice and care. Transgender people shouldn't have to go out of their way to avoid people instead of just going to the actual bathroom that is most convenient for them at any given time.

 

Stop mocking people for wanting social justice, and start actually holding the GOP and the right accountable for provoking people in the first place.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Why should the GOP not want biological males who look like males going into the woman's room...gee I wonder

[Phantom Roxas]

Why should the GOP not want biological males who look like males going into the woman's room...gee I wonder

 

Maybe because the members of the GOP who oppose transgender rights are discriminating.

 

You have no right to stop someone who wants to attempt to change their orientation from attempting to do so

 

Oh, but I guess it's totally okay to stop someone from attempting to change their gender identity!

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

 

Maybe because the members of the GOP who oppose transgender rights are discriminating.

 

 

 

Oh, but I guess it's totally okay to stop someone from attempting to change their gender identity!

 

 

I really think you need to watch this Roxas

 

Why does what I think about Transgenderism matter. I'm not a lawmaker, it could not matter less whether I like/dislike/support it. 

 

My stance has always been one to support the method of least chaos

[a bad post]

 

I really think you need to watch this Roxas

 

Why does what I think about Transgenderism matter. I'm not a lawmaker, it could not matter less whether I like/dislike/support it. 

 

My stance has always been one to support the method of least chaos

White that video was not pertinent to the discussion at all. Also please don't claim your stance has always been to support "the method of least chaos". You literally spent the entirety of a thread trying to prove trans people needed to be fixed, and also said that they should be removed from the lgbt movement despite being the ones to start the whole damn thing. 

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

White that video was not pertinent to the discussion at all. Also please don't claim your stance has always been to support "the method of least chaos". You literally spent the entirety of a thread trying to prove trans people needed to be fixed, and also said that they should be removed from the lgbt movement despite being the ones to start the whole damn thing. 

Sure it is, even liberals think y'all are being absurd. Just go to the bathroom that you look like you should go to. Like very few people would complain about Kate or Hina using the woman's room because they look convincing. 

 

And? I still think that, but I see no problem in a born-male who looks like a female using the woman's room. 

 

I can already see that none of y'all have learned the lesson from this election and are planning to charge further left. Please. Do it. 

 

But since you wanna bring is up, the problem I had in that thread was the slippery slope that was being created to accommodate trans-individuals. At first it was tampons in the men's room. Next it would be urinals in the women's room. If this spreads to public universities, I'm gonna have to be the one to pay for it. 

[Sunshine Jesse]

But since you wanna bring is up, the problem I had in that thread was the slippery slope that was being created to accommodate trans-individuals. At first it was tampons in the men's room. Next it would be urinals in the women's room. If this spreads to public universities, I'm gonna have to be the one to pay for it. 

And what cost are you paying, exactly?

Mild frustration and bewilderment???

 

How heinous.

[VCR_CAT]

But since you wanna bring is up, the problem I had in that thread was the slippery slope

 

Oh hey, that's my favorite logical fallacy!

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Oh hey, that's my favorite logical fallacy!

Except when it gets validated right

[Phantom Roxas]

Except when it gets validated right

 

Prove it. Answer Jesse's question, and prove what you personally have to pay.

[senorchavez]

And what cost are you paying, exactly?

Mild frustration and bewilderment???

I'm pretty sure he would be fiscally paying for all of those accommodations as well.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Prove it. Answer Jesse's question, and prove what you personally have to pay.

Taxes?

I'm pretty sure he would be fiscally paying for all of those accommodations as well.

^^

 

Public Universities Roxas, my tax payer money would go to it

[Aerion Brightflame]

Oh hey, that's my favorite logical fallacy!

 

It's not an argument without basis frankly. Incremental change is one of the more realistic ways that otherwise unpassable legislature can come into being. Propose one idea under a good purpose that no one can object to that is only a little step down the way, bonus points if you can attach it to something that is 'moral' and thus no one can really object to without being ostracised for. Say the Patriot Act, or the recent Snoopers laws in the UK. No one can oppose greater 'security measures' when trying to stop say Terrorists or pedo's. And then they gently expand on it, and build upon it till they have it being more extensive than the unfiltered idea would have been.

 

But I also think that slippery slope is not enough of an argument on it's own to oppose change. Because you can, if bills are designed right and if you can keep public attention on the issues you can pass 'slippery slope' legitslation without opening the route to the negative. The issue is, it's very hard to ensure those two given the current state of the media and politics.

 

I do think it's wrong to entirely dismiss slippery slope as a logical concern - Practically everyone here will accept it about surviellence measures say.

 

 

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

For example, wasn't same sex marriage cited in the Utah case to legalize polygamy? I support both measures so I didn't make a fuss about it, but it is a thing.