Political Ideology

[a bad post]

Democrats originated racist slave owning white supremacists

 

Things change love

Except for the fact that they word 'democrat' has never been used cover up the fact that they were a group of racist slave owning white supremacists. When the Democrats dealt in that they were upfront about it, and people called it what it was. The term alt-right is specifically being used cover up the fact that the whole basis of the movement is Neo-Nazism. How is somebody supposed to believe that you are the "moderate right" and that the racist part of the movement is the minority when the term's entire purpose is to deceive people into thinking the movement isn't as sinister as it actually is.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Except for the fact that they word 'democrat' has never been used cover up the fact that they were a group of racist slave owning white supremacists. When the Democrats dealt in that they were upfront about it, and people called it what it was. The term alt-right is specifically being used cover up the fact that the whole basis of the movement is Neo-Nazism. How is somebody supposed to believe that you are the "moderate right" and that the racist part of the movement is the minority when the term's entire purpose is to deceive people into thinking the movement isn't as sinister as it actually is.

Crowds

 

President-Elect got crowds of 20K in former Dem Strongholds

 

The Neo-Nazis barely had 30 people show up at their convention

 

you tell me which is the dominant alt-right

Things do change.

 

But the definition of the alt=right as being 'White nationalists' is a modern definition. This isn't like the Democrats, whose standpoint and such changed over decades. You are taking a name that has incredibly negative connotations in a modern enviroment and going 'Nah forget about all that, we have nothing to do with that' without leavin any time for the name to be distanced from the negatives.

 

So whilst you are right to say things change, it is more proper to say things change slowly. And that jumping to identify yourselves as 'alt-right' simply because of the ease of saying 'we are alternative right' when the alt-right has a different relevant modern meaning is kinda strange.

 

You could call yourself essentially anything else, but you are trying to pick one of the few modern names that has these crazy connotations. I don't see why short of either lazyness, certain aspects wanting to fit the current idea of the alt-right, or just a need to go 'nah it's ours now'. All of which seem like the worst option. Choosing a new name would actually be positive press because it's 'rebranding'.

Certain parts of the Alt-right as it stands do fit the description though

 

>Distrust of Establishment

>Anti-Globalist

>Anti-Open Border

>America First Infrastructure

>Anti-PC

 

to name a few 

[Aerion Brightflame]

But it doesn't matter which is dominant, it matters which gets public perception, and which group the general public will identify them as more. Most people won't know the specifics, they'll just know the general association.

 

Which again makes the idea of picking a group that has that kind of connotation just bizzare. You could have any name you want, but you pick one with some degree of s*** stuck to it that starts to undermine your efforts. Beyond simple convience, I don't see a reason as to why being the 'alt-right' is a good thing given the connotations it's built up till now. 

 

 

And yes, certain parts of the alt-right fit your idea, but I misworded what I meant there. I meant that there are specific parts of this 'moderate Republican' movement that want to be attached to the negative labels given to the alt-right because of agreements. Which is strange, because they are trying to be a moderate group unlike the alt-right. You are making your job actively harder. Even if we ignore the constant falling back on identity politics.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Most people have no idea what the alt-right /was/ beyond News Anchors and Tumblr SJWs

[(GigaDrillBreaker)]

why not just call yourself moderate right, since you use it to describe yourself so often..?

[a bad post]

Most people have no idea what the alt-right /was/ beyond News Anchors and Tumblr SJWs

That doesn't change that the so-called minority feels empowered now because they feel a large group of people approves of what they think. And before you try to dodge that the rise in hate crimes against non-whites and non-heterosexual people begs to differ. Also saying that only news anchors and sjws are the only people who know what they alt-right was applies such a negative connotation actually doing research on something you don't understand. The argument you are trying to present is ridiculously childish White.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

You do realize a great many of these "hate crime" have been proven fakes right?

[a bad post]

You do realize a great many of these "hate crime" have been proven fakes right?

I'm just going to say that the beer cans that got thrown at my friend wearing her hijab or the slur that got written on the wipe board I keep posted on my door weren't fakes so yeah may not be full blown hate crimes but these types of people are getting far bolder than the were before this election

[vla1ne]

I'm just going to say that the beer cans that got thrown at my friend wearing her hijab or the slur that got written on the wipe board I keep posted on my door weren't fakes so yeah may not be full blown hate crimes but these types of people are getting far bolder than the were before this election

not to be rude, but it's expected that some people would get rude after the election. the same would have happened to another demographic (probably to white people/ white men specifically) had clinton won. that's just the few racists being emboldened by a victory that wasn't meant for them. that doesn't make it right, but that doesn't condemn the entire party either.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

I'm just going to say that the beer cans that got thrown at my friend wearing her hijab or the slur that got written on the wipe board I keep posted on my door weren't fakes so yeah may not be full blown hate crimes but these types of people are getting far bolder than the were before this election

Shrugs, and your people beat a trump supporter to an inch of his life, stole his car, and left him on the street.

 

Don't be supposed if liberals did the sheet to your door. A liberal Jew drew swastikas over their own sheet and got caught tryna frame Truml peeps

 

Spencer's people don't really exist

[Phantom Roxas]

Most people have no idea what the alt-right /was/ beyond News Anchors and Tumblr SJWs

 

"Tumblr SJWs" aren't real. It's meant to be a loaded term that tries to put people down, but it doesn't really explain why those people are bad. The closest is basically people who want equality, and… why is that a bad thing? By limiting the description to "Tumblr SJWs", is that supposed to be like how alt-rights were described as coming from 4chan? Remember what the "SJ" stands for? "Social justice." So maybe the reason "Tumblr SJWs" talked about it was because they saw an overlap between Nazism and members of the alt-right, and Neo-Nazis probably wouldn't help social justice. Can you stop saying "SJW" with such blatant derision?

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

"Tumblr SJWs" aren't real. It's meant to be a loaded term that tries to put people down, but it doesn't really explain why those people are bad. The closest is basically people who want equality, and… why is that a bad thing? By limiting the description to "Tumblr SJWs", is that supposed to be like how alt-rights were described as coming from 4chan? Remember what the "SJ" stands for? "Social justice." So maybe the reason "Tumblr SJWs" talked about it was because they saw an overlap between Nazism and members of the alt-right, and Neo-Nazis probably wouldn't help social justice. Can you stop saying "SJW" with such blatant derision?

Mate, people were talking about "literally shaking" and concentration camps for LGBT.

 

If you want the problem with them, they're over dramatic idealists with flawed ideal

 

MLK social justice was amazing, throwing a fit becuase someone's says Islam is regressive or that the LGBT movement is out of line is not

[Sunshine Jesse]

Don't be supposed if liberals did the s*** to your door. A liberal Jew drew swastikas over their own s*** and got caught tryna frame Truml peeps

 

Spencer's people don't really exist

That's some mighty fine kool-aid you've been drinking.

Mate, people were talking about "literally shaking" and concentration camps for LGBT.

 

If you want the problem with them, they're over dramatic idealists with flawed ideal

 

MLK social justice was amazing, throwing a fit becuase someone's says Islam is regressive or that the LGBT movement is out of line is not

You're such a hypocrite. You're not the only one allowed to whine about imaginary threats.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

That's some mighty fine kool-aid you've been drinking.You're such a hypocrite. You're not the only one allowed to whine about imaginary threats.

Not kool-aid, simple Google. Lotsa false flags have been debunked

 

The no-flyzone isn't an imaginary threat

[Phantom Roxas]

Mate,

Darling, you can stop that. Sweetie, this doesn't do you any good. If you'd stop that, I would appreciate it. Cheers.

 

people were talking about "literally shaking" and concentration camps for LGBT.

Oh please, don't even say "LGBT" when you believe that the "T" doesn't deserve to be there. It's not exactly "concentration camps", but Mike Pence does support conversion therapy, which is more likely to cause suicide, the excuse people give being "Well, at least you wouldn't be gay." And I do know people that were actually shaking, crying, and were terrified on Election Day. Stop being so condescending. You are doing nothing helpful. All you're doing is looking down on people. They have a right to be afraid, but all you ever do is mock people for how they feel.

 

If you want the problem with them, they're over dramatic idealists with flawed ideal

How, because they point out the flaws in alt-right rhetoric? And oh look, you're once again mocking someone for how they feel. They're not "overdramatic". It's just that someone like Mike Pence preaches ~religious freedom~ when really, he just wants a pretense to restrict someone else's freedom to express their identities. "I want to be treated the same way as other people" is not a "flawed ideal", nor does it make them overdramatic. It's wanting, believe it or not, to be treated the same way as other people. That's it. But no, you just keep punching down on people for wanting equality.

 

MLK social justice was amazing, throwing a fit becuase someone's says Islam is regressive or that the LGBT movement is out of line is not

And I'm pretty sure that MLK's desires for progress were also considered "out of line". The Greensboro sit-ins were considered out of line. Rosa Parks not moving out of a seat on the bus was considered appropriate. Doesn't mean that they actually were.

 

Not kool-aid, simple Google. Lotsa false flags have been debunked

 

The no-flyzone isn't an imaginary threat

 

Okay. Then Google "conversion therapy" if that's all you need to do. Or do you think that's an "imaginary threat"?

[Tentacruel]

"Tumblr SJWs" aren't real. It's meant to be a loaded term that tries to put people down, but it doesn't really explain why those people are bad. The closest is basically people who want equality, and… why is that a bad thing? By limiting the description to "Tumblr SJWs", is that supposed to be like how alt-rights were described as coming from 4chan? Remember what the "SJ" stands for? "Social justice." So maybe the reason "Tumblr SJWs" talked about it was because they saw an overlap between Nazism and members of the alt-right, and Neo-Nazis probably wouldn't help social justice. Can you stop saying "SJW" with such blatant derision?

White Nationalists aren't real.  The closest is basically people who want to protect American values and, why is that a bad thing?  See?  I can do it too.  

As useless as the term SJW is, to say that "people just want equality" is disingenuous.   There are a fuckload of people on Tumblr and in Universities who have very extreme opinions on identity politics and social issues.  The idea of social justice is not the same as equality.  Justice implies compensation for past inequality.  Upper-class white women screeching about the patriarchy are not advocating for equality. 

 

Saying that "SJW's aren't real" is a way to shut down anyone who doesn't agree with you on social issues.

 

On the flipside, there are plenty of real social issues that need addressing.  (See conversion therapy referenced above) But I hope you see my point. 

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

Spencer's people don't really exist

 

While I can agree that his influence is overstated, careful of wading into denialism. 

 

Okay. Then Google "conversion therapy" if that's all you need to do. Or do you think that's an "imaginary threat"?

 

Why should people feel threatened by it? 

 

This was the statement on Mike Pence's 2000 campaign site possibly relevant to conversion therapy: 

 

"Resources should be directed toward those institutions which provide assistance to those seeking to change their sexual behavior."

Source: http://www.ibtimes.com/mike-pence-abortion-gay-rights-vice-president-elects-controversial-views-policies-2446434

 

This means that he'd provide assistance for those who *wanted* to change their sexual behavior, not that he'd force it upon anyone. It's also worth noting that Pence never explicitly said he supported any form of conversion therapy, so he could just as well be referring to curbing promiscuity. 

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-northwestern-chapel-vandalism-met-20161121-story.html

 

Some tasty kool-aid here 

http://abc7chicago.com/news/trump-supporter-beaten-on-west-side-explains-why-he-didnt-fight-back/1607016/

 

This on the other hand

 

Leftist thugs have been going open season on us from the day Mr. Trump won this election. And I haven't seen a single "tolerant" liberal lift a hand to protect us. Trump condemned the neo-nazis, where did Pres. Obama and Sec. Clinton tell their supporters to stop rioting?

why not just call yourself moderate right, since you use it to describe yourself so often..?

It's not a clear enough distinction from the cluster funk the GOP is

[Phantom Roxas]

White Nationalists aren't real.  The closest is basically people who want to protect American values and, why is that a bad thing?  See?  I can do it too.  

As useless as the term SJW is, to say that "people just want equality" is disingenuous.   There are a fuckload of people on Tumblr and in Universities who have very extreme opinions on identity politics and social issues.  The idea of social justice is not the same as equality.  Justice implies compensation for past inequality.  Upper-class white women screeching about the patriarchy are not advocating for equality. 

 

Saying that "SJW's aren't real" is a way to shut down anyone who doesn't agree with you on social issues.

 

On the flipside, there are plenty of real social issues that need addressing.  (See conversion therapy referenced above) But I hope you see my point.

 

Which is just like Winter just saying "Spencer's people don't really exist" is the same thing. I do think that women just saying "Smash the patriarchy!" as if that's somehow the answer to everything is just dumb, so you do make a good point, but I think simply complaining about "SJWs" combines both groups of people: The people who just point to a problem and think complaining about it solves their problems, and the people who do recognize actual social issues. It confuses the people who have genuine concerns with the people who have those extreme opinions.

 

This means that he'd provide assistance for those who *wanted* to change their sexual behavior, not that he'd force it upon anyone. It's also worth noting that Pence never explicitly said he supported any form of conversion therapy, so he could just as well be referring to curbing promiscuity.

On a website which also includes the following: http://web.archive.org/web/20010519165033fw_/http://cybertext.net/pence/issues.html

 

• Congress should oppose any effort to put gay and lesbian relationships on an equal legal status with heterosexual marriage.

 

• Congress should oppose any effort to recognize homosexual’s as a "discreet and insular minority" entitled to the protection of anti-discrimination laws similar to those extended to women and ethnic minorities.

 

Politifact also cites those quotes: http://www.politifact.com/california/statements/2016/jul/28/gavin-newsom/true-mike-pence-advocated-conversion-therapy/

 

Looking it up, it does seem like the part about him supporting shock therapy was a myth. Yes, I know it's Snopes, but I think it does at least offer a good explanation for the confusion, so I was wrong to bring up shock therapy before. However, Pence is still outright discriminatory towards homosexuals, so not including shock therapy in his plans isn't really a saving grace.

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

Politifact also cites those quotes: http://www.politifact.com/california/statements/2016/jul/28/gavin-newsom/true-mike-pence-advocated-conversion-therapy/

 

Looking it up, it does seem like the part about him supporting shock therapy was a myth. Yes, I know it's Snopes, but I think it does at least offer a good explanation for the confusion, so I was wrong to bring up shock therapy before. However, Pence is still outright discriminatory towards homosexuals, so not including shock therapy in his plans isn't really a saving grace.

 

Politifact is every bit as problematic as Snopes, complete with their own "Truth-O-Meter". The article in question is just a California Democrat directing you to the exact same passage we just went over and making the same reach that he was referring to conversion therapy in spite of that not having been stated, with Politifact co-signing because they can. 

[Tentacruel]

While Snopes and politifact are useful tools, it's dangerous to treat their word as bible.  It gives them the power to decide what is truth, and everyone is at least a little biased. 

[Phantom Roxas]

While Snopes and politifact are useful tools, it's dangerous to treat their word as bible.  It gives them the power to decide what is truth, and everyone is at least a little biased. 

 

I don't think that because they said something, it must be true. I just think that, at least in Snopes, that particular explanation of how that one image got around and everyone sort of bought into it makes sense. Though if there is something else that does confirm other suspicions about conversion therapy, then I'd welcome that.

 

But really, I don't think Mike Pence has to explicitly state "Oh yeah, I totally support conversion therapy." But hey, if Winter can talk about "simple Google", then why is it that googling "conversion therapy" turns up Mike Pence without you even having to specify his name?

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

I don't think that because they said something, it must be true. I just think that, at least in Snopes, that particular explanation of how that one image got around and everyone sort of bought into it makes sense. Though if there is something else that does confirm other suspicions about conversion therapy, then I'd welcome that.

 

But really, I don't think Mike Pence has to explicitly state "Oh yeah, I totally support conversion therapy." But hey, if Winter can talk about "simple Google", then why is it that googling "conversion therapy" turns up Mike Pence without you even having to specify his name?

I said simple google, because if you look up these fake false flag incidents where say a jewish student scratched a swastika onto his car, and then cried out in fear about the alt-right, you won't be looking for long

 

Politifact is bullshit.

 

Trump and Bernie said the same statement about black unemployment, they rated Trump false and Bernie true

[Sunshine Jesse]

Politifact is bullshit.

 

Trump and Bernie said the same statement about black unemployment, they rated Trump false and Bernie true

This is wrong, actually. Bernie gave 51%, Trump gave 59%. Among other reasons, Bernie was "mostly true" because the statistics were correct at one point but now out of date. Trump was "mostly false" because he both got the numbers wrong and oversimplified the true meaning of those statistics.

 

Context matters, and it's not just semantics.

Politifact actually has a conservative bias because they try too hard to seem neutral. But the reality is that conservative politicians simply lie more because it's impossible for them to justify their viewpoints without seeming callous, hateful, or greedy.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

This is wrong, actually. Bernie gave 51%, Trump gave 59%. Among other reasons, Bernie was "mostly true" because the statistics were correct at one point but now out of date. Trump was "mostly false" because he both got the numbers wrong and oversimplified the true meaning of those statistics.

 

Context matters, and it's not just semantics.

Politifact actually has a conservative bias because they try too hard to seem neutral. But the reality is that conservative politicians simply lie more because it's impossible for them to justify their viewpoints without seeming callous, hateful, or greedy.

Trump was actually closer than Bernie

 

To quote politifact 

 

"Trump’s campaign didn’t respond to our question about where the candidate got his 59 percent figure. But it appears likely it comes from a computation of all 16- to 24-year-old blacks who aren’t working and may not even want a job, including high school and college students"

 

Unemployment as it's calculated today, doesn't take into account people who have given up or not attempting to look for a job. The value that President Obama touts all the time is the % of people who want a job and can't get one. There's many people who have given up looking for a job and are thus excluded from unemployment calculations. If the goal, as the President elects was, is to to remove the black kids from the street and gets them decent paying jobs so they don't have to be in debt to either pay of college or support their family, you want to go with the 58.5% value

 

You're delusional if you thing politifact has a conservative skew

 

Also you should look up what the meaning of the idiom "to the tune of" is