US Trump Administration Discussion Thread

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

How about let's actually be accurate and remind you how you were absolutely destroyed whenever you tried to bring up trading weapons with Saudi. Stop trying to perpetuate a narrative you've already been brutally disproved on several times. So yeah no, that didn't happen here and it didn't really happen there either. Get your facts straight.

>Ignores half of what was said

>pass baseless judgment on the other half

>Calls it a day

 

Ok VCR, OK

That's not the point.  That's not what the problem is at all.  The problem is Russia has information on us.  Period.  And now, when they're ready to pin us and put us in binds, they can release it and cause all kinds of problems.  The fact that you don't see this is ridiculous.  Russia should not have their noses in our politics or our information.  Period.

 

funk Russia.

If Hillary was honest, it wouldn't be a problem

 

Clean your own house first before telling others not to look in

Getting yelled at by in a chimp-like blind rage by a petty false moderator and a small mob is different from being "absolutely destroyed," which requires things like sources and eloquence.

He's citing the point that SA is technically our ally, so weapon shipments that change hand three times between SA and ISIS are hard to pin on SA

 

Basically, selling arms to SA isn't wrong, SA selling arms through multiple middlemen to ISIS, IS wrong, but we cannot do much about it

 

He's wrong since HRC admits to knowing that it was going to ISIS and did nothing still

 

Not worth arguing with him on the matter, he'll just throw a smokescreen at you

[Phantom Roxas]

If we call all strap on tin foils hate, maybe the Chinese paid NBC to do it, and dropped the Taxes

 

You can think whatever you want, but if you're gonna accuse my president elect of being a traitor, please back it up with more than smoke and mirrors

Can you also stop accusing people of wearing tin foils? I've lost track of all the ways you use ad hominem attacks on people. But sure, let's move the goalposts again by blaming the Chinese.

 

Oh, now you say we can think whatever we want? Some of us actually do try to back up our claims against Trump, but you either call our evidence smoke and mirrors as well, or just laugh at us for having tin foil hats, or we're acting on outrage, or you then ask us what we think about something else.

[Dad]

 

If Hillary was honest, it wouldn't be a problem

 

Clean your own house first before telling others not to look in

 

No.  It would still be a problem.  We should not have foreign entities with information on us.  Friend nor foe.  We are the United States of America.  They are Russia.  They should not, regardless of who is in the White House, have access to any of the United States information.

 

And stop making ridiculous analogies.  If your house was on fire and someone saw it and offered you help, you wouldn't tell them to piss off and mind their own business.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Can you also stop accusing people of wearing tin foils? I've lost track of all the ways you use ad hominem attacks on people. But sure, let's move the goalposts again by blaming the Chinese.

 

Oh, now you say we can think whatever we want? Some of us actually do try to back up our claims against Trump, but you either call our evidence smoke and mirrors as well, or just laugh at us for having tin foil hats, or we're acting on outrage, or you then ask us what we think about something else.

No I cannot.

 

Our president has released no proof of the matter other than his word. It's very convenient how they can't even release the "proof" now

 

I'm calling it smoke and mirror because they've released all of jackshit to prove it

[VCR_CAT]

Getting yelled at by in a chimp-like blind rage by a petty false moderator and a small mob is different from being "absolutely destroyed," which requires things like sources and eloquence.

 

Need I remind you all that this happened: https://forum.yugiohcardmaker.net/topic/358716-wikileaks-thread/

 

His argument is based off of events that happened close to 3 years ago, with no evidence that such is the case today. Need I remind you both that Saudi is, in fact, an ally with the US and trading arms with an ally isn't treason, not to mention there's little to no evidence that these arms are going directly to ISIS and not being used to combat ISIS at all. The argument that selling weapons to Saudi is selling weapons to ISIS is extremely weak, as it's based off of outdated evidence and works off of too many assumptions. So far, he says "But they knew it's going there*" *said evidence is based off an interaction that happened years ago. It's stupid that he still thinks that his argument is the case regardless of being told otherwise, and hasn't even put in the effort to find out if what he's saying is actually the case today.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

No.  It would still be a problem.  We should not have foreign entities with information on us.  Friend nor foe.  We are the United States of America.  They are Russia.  They should not, regardless of who is in the White House, have access to any of the United States information.

 

And stop making ridiculous analogies.  If your house was on fire and someone saw it and offered you help, you wouldn't tell them to piss off and mind their own business.

I'm saying the only reason the Russians were able to "damage" HRC was she was doing blatantly terrible things.

 

The leaks would be impotent if there were innocuous. She brought this on herself, and her campaign manage has a no-caps password and fell for a phishing scam...give me a break, I could have gotten into podesta's emails

 

You had incompetent buffoons working for a liar. That's it.

 

Assange made it very clear that Russia did NOT provide them the emails. So time for the US CIA to prove it or stfu

[Tourmaline]

No.  It would still be a problem.  We should not have foreign entities with information on us.  Friend nor foe.  We are the United States of America.  They are Russia.  They should not, regardless of who is in the White House, have access to any of the United States information.

 

And stop making ridiculous analogies.  If your house was on fire and someone saw it and offered you help, you wouldn't tell them to piss off and mind their own business.

That's why Russia gave us water.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

That's why Russia gave us water.

As usual, VCR is full of decrepit feces, so here, a very far left outlet collaborating my point on Hillary

 

http://www.salon.com/2016/10/11/leaked-hillary-clinton-emails-show-u-s-allies-saudi-arabia-and-qatar-supported-isis/

 

It's hard to convict her of treason, but we'll see if Trump can live up to that challenge 

 

"As Salon has previously reported, a classified 2009 cable signed by then-Secretary of State Hillary Clinton (also released by WikiLeaks) acknowledged, “Donors in Saudi Arabia constitute the most significant source of funding to Sunni terrorist groups worldwide.” “Saudi Arabia remains a critical financial support base for al-Qa’ida, the Taliban, [Lashkar-e-Taiba], and other terrorist groups,” the State Department memo said, adding, “It has been an ongoing challenge to persuade Saudi officials to treat terrorist financing emanating from Saudi Arabia as a strategic priority.”"

 

America does not negotiate with terrorist or terrorist affiliated states. What has been done in the state department needs a full investigation.

[VCR_CAT]

That's why Russia gave us water.

 

whoops it was gasoline, sorry there pal. My B.

 

As usual, VCR is full of decrepit feces, so here, a very far left outlet collaborating my point on Hillary

 

http://www.salon.com/2016/10/11/leaked-hillary-clinton-emails-show-u-s-allies-saudi-arabia-and-qatar-supported-isis/

 

It's hard to convict her of treason, but we'll see if Trump can live up to that challenge 

 

"As Salon has previously reported, a classified 2009 cable signed by then-Secretary of State Hillary Clinton (also released by WikiLeaks) acknowledged, “Donors in Saudi Arabia constitute the most significant source of funding to Sunni terrorist groups worldwide.” “Saudi Arabia remains a critical financial support base for al-Qa’ida, the Taliban, [Lashkar-e-Taiba], and other terrorist groups,” the State Department memo said, adding, “It has been an ongoing challenge to persuade Saudi officials to treat terrorist financing emanating from Saudi Arabia as a strategic priority.”"

 

America does not negotiate with terrorist or terrorist affiliated states. What has been done in the state department needs a full investigation.

 

Uhh yes, didn't I say your source was close to 3 years old? Because that outlet is still working off of that same email and you've failed to provide any evidence that's actually more recent.

 

Is an investigation a good idea? Yeah. But you know what else is a good idea? Not jumping to a conclusion until said investigation is carried out with more proper evidence just because the given narrative appeals to your bias.

[Dad]

That's why Russia gave us water.

 

Let me rephrase, since I'm apparently being unclear.  The problem is not which party Russia hacked or interfered with or influenced.  The problem is that Russia was involved.  By allowing them to get their grimy, stubby, hairy, piss covered fingers on any of our intelligence, is unforgivable.  Had they used this to push Clinton (not a chance in hell) there would be outcry for war (duh).

 

But now they have RNC information that they can readily weaponize to use against us.  They have information that--should we not cooperate with their every request--they could give to our enemies.  We should not allow foreign entities to interfere with US intelligence. 

 

As usual, VCR is full of decrepit feces, so here, a very far left outlet collaborating my point on Hillary

 

http://www.salon.com/2016/10/11/leaked-hillary-clinton-emails-show-u-s-allies-saudi-arabia-and-qatar-supported-isis/

 

It's hard to convict her of treason, but we'll see if Trump can live up to that challenge 

 

"As Salon has previously reported, a classified 2009 cable signed by then-Secretary of State Hillary Clinton (also released by WikiLeaks) acknowledged, “Donors in Saudi Arabia constitute the most significant source of funding to Sunni terrorist groups worldwide.” “Saudi Arabia remains a critical financial support base for al-Qa’ida, the Taliban, [Lashkar-e-Taiba], and other terrorist groups,” the State Department memo said, adding, “It has been an ongoing challenge to persuade Saudi officials to treat terrorist financing emanating from Saudi Arabia as a strategic priority.”"

 

America does not negotiate with terrorist or terrorist affiliated states. What has been done in the state department needs a full investigation.

 

And as much as I'd like to see Trump act on Clinton, didn't he say he was dropping it?  Some bs respect or something?

[Tourmaline]

whoops it was gasoline, sorry there pal. My B.

I guess you would know oil best considering your favorite thing is fast food.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Let me rephrase, since I'm apparently being unclear.  The problem is not which party Russia hacked or interfered with or influenced.  The problem is that Russia was involved.  By allowing them to get their grimy, stubby, hairy, piss covered fingers on any of our intelligence, is unforgivable.  Had they used this to push Clinton (not a chance in hell) there would be outcry for war (duh).

 

But now they have RNC information that they can readily weaponize to use against us.  They have information that--should we not cooperate with their every request--they could give to our enemies.  We should not allow foreign entities to interfere with US intelligence. 

False

 

http://www.wsj.com/articles/republican-national-committee-security-foiled-russian-hackers-1481850043

 

The RNC is competent enough to not click on a phishing scam 

 

They *tried* to get into the RNC

 

 

And as much as I'd like to see Trump act on Clinton, didn't he say he was dropping it?  Some bs respect or something?

 

 

No, he said the email investigation wasn't his big prio. But later said he would leave it to his AG as it's not the president's job to pass judgment

 

The FBI investigation on her Foundation is still on-going

 

The FBI investigation into state is still on-going

[Aerion Brightflame]

So from my perspective; The issue with any leaks by the Russians isn't the content. It's the existance of the leaks in the first place.

 

In this case, the leak was damming emails of HRC. What stops it from, next time, being a list of confidential agents operating in the Middle East? Or in Russia? Or bank account details of millions? Or something that they can use to Blackmail public officials with?

 

The actual information leaked was good, because it highlights wrong-doings by a US public official, and that's something the American public should know (Even if little of it was as damning as people wanted us to believe it would be. A lot of it was just what I'd expect from politicians). But the information should never come from foriegn nations, because a foriegn nation should not be able to access that kind of information in the first place.

 

The existance of the leak means far more than contents of the leak, and it should be condemed as a result, and measures should be taken to prevent it happening again. Once again, the precident and the general scenario mean far more than the specifics. Something that would be worth baring in mind.

 

You can't really go; 'Well this worked out for us this time, so it's all good, we don't need to tighten up and be more proactive about stopping these things in future'. It's begging for something terrible to happen.

[Dad]

False

 

http://www.wsj.com/articles/republican-national-committee-security-foiled-russian-hackers-1481850043

 

The RNC is competent enough to not click on a phishing scam 

 

They *tried* to get into the RNC

 

You really believe Russia took one step, and just said "okay we give up"?  It's not just DNC.  It's not just RNC.  Russia is going to bend us over unless we take action.  Same goes for China.  Same goes for SA.

[Phantom Roxas]

And as much as I'd like to see Trump act on Clinton, didn't he say he was dropping it?  Some bs respect or something?

 

I think he said that "Look her up" was good during the election, but there's no point in saying it anymore. So maybe it was a talking point rather than a statement of anything he was seriously interested in pursuing?

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

 

I think he said that "Look her up" was good during the election, but there's no point in saying it anymore. So maybe it was a talking point rather than a statement of anything he was seriously interested in pursuing?

http://www.wnd.com/2016/11/trump-insider-hillary-still-could-face-prosecution/

 

It's not up to Trump if she gets prosecuted or not. Like not at all up to him. The DoJ needs to be independent of Trump if they do, otherwise people will scream banana republic 

 

As a civilian, Trump is allowed to give his opinion on the matter, which was, I have bigger problem, and don't really want to. As president he has NO power to push for a prosecution or push against one. He can pardon her if he wants. But that's it

[Dad]

 

I think he said that "Look her up" was good during the election, but there's no point in saying it anymore. So maybe it was a talking point rather than a statement of anything he was seriously interested in pursuing?

 

I'm not sure how interested Trump actually was.  Though I wouldn't mind if he locked up Clinton, shoved a boot up Russia's ass, and flipped China the bird over the next four years.

[Phantom Roxas]

http://www.wnd.com/2016/11/trump-insider-hillary-still-could-face-prosecution/

 

It's not up to Trump if she gets prosecuted or not. Like not at all up to him. The DoJ needs to be independent of Trump if they do, otherwise people will scream banana republic

 

http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/09/politics/donald-trump-hillary-clinton-lock-her-up-chant/

 

"That plays great before the election -- now we don't care, right?"

 

"He also said the idea of prosecuting Clinton is "just not something I feel very strongly about.'"

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

I'm not sure how interested Trump actually was.  Though I wouldn't mind if he locked up Clinton, shoved a boot up Russia's ass, and flipped China the bird over the next four years.

3 will happen

1 will likely happen halfway, as in Sessions will prosecute

2 will likely result in concession to both our benefits like tightening the grip on Iran 

 

http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/09/politics/donald-trump-hillary-clinton-lock-her-up-chant/

 

"That plays great before the election -- now we don't care, right?"

 

"He also said the idea of prosecuting Clinton is "just not something I feel very strongly about.'"

Good thing it's not up to him then :)

[Phantom Roxas]

Good thing it's not up to him then :)

Then why do you want to see if "Trump can live up to that challenge"?

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Then why do you want to see if "Trump can live up to that challenge"?

I don't want him to pardon her, which it looks like he might do if Sessions manages to get her convicted 

[Dad]

3 will happen

1 will likely happen halfway, as in Sessions will prosecute

2 will likely result in concession to both our benefits like tightening the grip on Iran 

Good thing it's not up to him then :)

 

Tightening the grip on Iran is good for all of us.  Them, and Saudi Arabia need to be put in chokeholds until we squeeze every last insurgent and terrorist out of them like popping a pimple.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Tightening the grip on Iran is good for all of us.  Them, and Saudi Arabia need to be put in chokeholds until we squeeze every last insurgent and terrorist out of them like popping a pimple.

He's moving the Israel Embassy to Jerusalem, which is pretty big slap in the face for Iran (and SA kinda)

 

Now, if Putin or Assad supports that, or follows suit. That's the closer

 

China stole one of our drones yesterday, forget Trump, I think even Obama will deal with that angle. We can kick SA to the curb if we make new ME allies. Sisi's Egypt and Assad's Syria are the best chances of that happening

 

Edit:

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/17/world/asia/china-us-drone.html?smid=tw-nytimesworld&smtyp=cur

 

China said they would return it

[Sunshine Jesse]

If it's the leaks then it's interesting how people are angry at Russia for revealing how we've been being played. It also means US will have to improve its defenses, but they both ultimately do better for the country and its people.

Okay I'm pretty much the #1 anti-Trump person here, but I completely agree with this.

 

If they hack us in ways that show they can actually control things they have no business controlling, such as weapon systems, then I'd be worried. But so far, all they've done is reveal information. If we have to compromise national security to get transparency, then so be it.

 

Now, if there's actual evidence of collusion between Trump and Russia? Impeach him. Lock him up. He's literally worse than Hillary and anyone who argues otherwise is actually a blind partisan hack or fanboy. But until that evidence is presented, I don't think there's an actual problem.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]