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US Trump Administration Discussion Thread

cr47t

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Tentacruel Newbie

Tentacruel

Posted
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I mean the narrative that:

 

Freedom of religion isn't freedom from religion.

Religious equality is persecution towards Christianity.

Removing the rights of others is religious freedom.

 

That's the dangerous part and that's what Pence has shown every indication of supporting.

 

Yeah I can see what you mean.  

 

My biggest issue would be the first one.  There's also a dangerous narrative (in my opinion) from the left that freedom from religion can only be achieved by a lack of freedom of religion.

 

The idea that one can only be free to not practice religion is if religion is not visible to the public eye or present in society, is in mind an intention move toward a state suppression of religion. 

 

I'd agree with you on the rest. 

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VCR_CAT Apprentice

VCR_CAT

Posted
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Trump released his 100 day plan, and it hasn't been posted here so I'll separate the plan from my thoughts so it's more convenient for everyone to see what it is.

 

[spoiler=The Plan]

Plans regarding Congress in the first day:

  • FIRST, propose a Constitutional Amendment to impose term limits on all members of Congress
  • SECOND, a hiring freeze on all federal employees to reduce federal workforce through attrition (exempting military, public safety, and public health)
  • THIRD, a requirement that for every new federal regulation, two existing regulations must be eliminated
  • FOURTH, a 5 year-ban on White House and Congressional officials becoming lobbyists after they leave government service
  • FIFTH, a lifetime ban on White House officials lobbying on behalf of a foreign government
  • SIXTH, a complete ban on foreign lobbyists raising money for American elections

Plans regarding American workers in the first day:

  • FIRST, I will announce my intention to renegotiate NAFTA or withdraw from the deal under Article 2205
  • SECOND, I will announce our withdrawal from the Trans-Pacific Partnership
  • THIRD, I will direct my Secretary of the Treasury to label China a currency manipulator
  • FOURTH, I will direct the Secretary of Commerce and U.S. Trade Representative to identify all foreign trading abuses that unfairly impact American workers and direct them to use every tool under American and international law to end those abuses immediately
  • FIFTH, I will lift the restrictions on the production of $50 trillion dollars' worth of job-producing American energy reserves, including shale, oil, natural gas and clean coal.
  • SIXTH, lift the Obama-Clinton roadblocks and allow vital energy infrastructure projects, like the Keystone Pipeline, to move forward
  • SEVENTH, cancel billions in payments to U.N. climate change programs and use the money to fix America's water and environmental infrastructure

Plans regarding security and constitution on the first day:

  • FIRST, cancel every unconstitutional executive action, memorandum and order issued by President Obama
  • SECOND, begin the process of selecting a replacement for Justice Scalia from one of the 20 judges on my list, who will uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States
  • THIRD, cancel all federal funding to Sanctuary Cities
  • FOURTH, begin removing the more than 2 million criminal illegal immigrants from the country and cancel visas to foreign countries that won't take them back
  • FIFTH, suspend immigration from terror-prone regions where vetting cannot safely occur. All vetting of people coming into our country will be considered extreme vetting.

Legislative measures over the first 100 days:

  • Middle Class Tax Relief And Simplification Act. An economic plan designed to grow the economy 4% per year and create at least 25 million new jobs through massive tax reduction and simplification, in combination with trade reform, regulatory relief, and lifting the restrictions on American energy. The largest tax reductions are for the middle class. A middle-class family with 2 children will get a 35% tax cut. The current number of brackets will be reduced from 7 to 3, and tax forms will likewise be greatly simplified. The business rate will be lowered from 35 to 15 percent, and the trillions of dollars of American corporate money overseas can now be brought back at a 10 percent rate.
  • End The Offshoring Act. Establishes tariffs to discourage companies from laying off their workers in order to relocate in other countries and ship their products back to the U.S. tax-free.
  • American Energy & Infrastructure Act. Leverages public-private partnerships, and private investments through tax incentives, to spur $1 trillion in infrastructure investment over 10 years. It is revenue neutral.
  • School Choice And Education Opportunity Act. Redirects education dollars to give parents the right to send their kid to the public, private, charter, magnet, religious or home school of their choice. Ends common core, brings education supervision to local communities. It expands vocational and technical education, and make 2 and 4-year college more affordable.
  • Repeal and Replace Obamacare Act. Fully repeals Obamacare and replaces it with Health Savings Accounts, the ability to purchase health insurance across state lines, and lets states manage Medicaid funds. Reforms will also include cutting the red tape at the FDA: there are over 4,000 drugs awaiting approval, and we especially want to speed the approval of life-saving medications.
  • Affordable Childcare and Eldercare Act. Allows Americans to deduct childcare and elder care from their taxes, incentivizes employers to provide on-side childcare services, and creates tax-free Dependent Care Savings Accounts for both young and elderly dependents, with matching contributions for low-income families.
  • End Illegal Immigration Act Fully-funds the construction of a wall on our southern border with the full understanding that the country Mexico will be reimbursing the United States for the full cost of such wall; establishes a 2-year mandatory minimum federal prison sentence for illegally re-entering the U.S. after a previous deportation, and a 5-year mandatory minimum for illegally re-entering for those with felony convictions, multiple misdemeanor convictions or two or more prior deportations; also reforms visa rules to enhance penalties for overstaying and to ensure open jobs are offered to American workers first.
  • Restoring Community Safety Act. Reduces surging crime, drugs and violence by creating a Task Force On Violent Crime and increasing funding for programs that train and assist local police; increases resources for federal law enforcement agencies and federal prosecutors to dismantle criminal gangs and put violent offenders behind bars.
  • Restoring National Security Act. Rebuilds our military by eliminating the defense sequester and expanding military investment; provides Veterans with the ability to receive public VA treatment or attend the private doctor of their choice; protects our vital infrastructure from cyber-attack; establishes new screening procedures for immigration to ensure those who are admitted to our country support our people and our values
  • Clean up Corruption in Washington Act. Enacts new ethics reforms to Drain the Swamp and reduce the corrupting influence of special interests on our politics.

 

 

 

[spoiler=My Thoughts]

 

Regarding Congress Plans. A few of these I need to read up more to really grasp what's going on, but for what I can understand (first, fourth, fifth, sixth) off the bat, a lot of it is sorely needed, and will help to remove a lot of problems with congress and the white-house down the road. As of now, I don't have any complaints with these ideas and it seems like the right direction for the US to be moving in re: the white house. If it's really not, then I'd like to hear the reasoning for why.

 

Regarding American Workers.

FIRST and SECOND: The TPP was a bad idea, and corporations need to not be given as much power as this partnership gives them in regards to government action. I feel in that regard, this is the right move to make. I will need to refresh my memory on NAFTA before I can comment on that.

 

THIRD: Okay? Someone will need to explain to me the significance behind this.

 

FOURTH: This sounds good on paper; will it also address any abuses the Americans place on foreign workers as well, though?

 

FIFTH: Depending on what restrictions are being lifted, this could either be a very good or a very bad idea. I'll need to know more, but as-is this sounds concerning. Also, "Clean Coal?" C'mon, Trump.

 

SIXTH: There's a lot of problems with the pipeline proposals. At least in Canada, the one I know of was planned to cut directly through a protected national park as well as first nations reserves (and was actually canceled because of that). While a pipeline in itself holds a lot of advantages over traditional methods of oil transportation, my primary concerns would be where these pipelines are being built, and what measures are being taken to make sure they're strong and last.

 

SEVENTH: Unless that money is still being put towards environmental progression, no. Absolutely not. Climate change cannot be ignored, and while the effects we're experiencing are from a hundred years ago, the research needs to continue in order to allow humanity to adapt to the coming changes to our environment, as well as to help prevent a massive humanitarian crisis that will be sure to follow with it. I was relieved to see Trump retract his previous statements on climate change, but this speaks the opposite of that retraction.

 

Regarding Constitution

FIRST: Depending on what acts we're talking about, and what Donald is considering "unconstitutional". No thoughts until more information is presented.

 

SECOND: Okay, just so long as the replacement is very well qualified and not at all just some tipped off voice whose plan is to further Trump's agenda rather than accomplish the right thing.

 

THIRD: More thoughts on the whole illegal immigrants issue further below.

 

FOURTH: Again, more thoughts below; but this is probably one of my biggest concerns and I sincerely hope this isn't how the US actually addresses the issue of illegal immigrants. This is a disaster waiting to happen; families are going to be downright destroyed because of this, and it feels like a plan rooted in strong emotion and fear mongering rather than a rational dialogue over how to best address the issue with equal consideration on all sides.

 

FIFTH: Careful vetting and acceptance from unstable regions isn't strictly a bad idea; I just hope the execution of this is done in a manner that has people's best interests at heart and not one that seems to be rooted in prejudice.

 

Regarding the Rest

  • Probably one of the biggest issues that comes up between elections is taxes: Will the rich pay more and will the poor pay less. The intention seems to be to cut some slack on the poor and middle-class; I just hope that burden is then properly transferred to the rich and big businesses rather than just cutting taxes on everyone. Again, more information needed.
  • Ending the practice of outsourcing jobs overseas is a great idea in terms of promoting domestic jobs and business. Hopefully this is done well and properly, because this isn't at all a bad idea.
  • I'll need more information and a better explanation on the energy infrastructure plan.
  • I need an explanation on this one. Does this mean teachers will receive the payment they need to do their jobs; will schools receive proper funding. This could either be a very good thing, or a pretty bad thing; I don't know and I need to know more.
  • My biggest concern re: the Obamacare statement are the removing red-tape at the FDA. The FDA is way too often demonized in the US, and wrongfully so. This red tape is there because drugs and medications need to undergo a lot of testing and examination so that we know that they work, that they're safe, and that if there are any complications with conditions or allergies, that we know about them. Removing or reducing this process is going to add a lot of risk to patients that need to get better, not potentially die because there was something about the medicine they didn't know about.
  • This one seems like a good thing. Please.
  • At this point, my concern re: The Wall isn't whether it should/should not be done; it's over how or even can it be done. I've read up regarding the costs of labors and demand for physical resources to build this dang thing, and it's astronomical. This plan says "and make Mexico pay for it", but they've already expressed clear intent to not participate in its construction, or even pay for it. How tf does Trump expect this stupid thing to happen without ruining a budget? Just put that money towards schools and hospitals; don't waste it on this.
  • I'll need more information re: community safety. I'd rather see intent to address poor school and job opportunities in several urban communities to help address these issues, though.
  • Oh boy, more money towards the military and not towards more pressing needs.
  • This last one is way too vague for me to really comment on or understand.

Conclusion: Some good ideas in here, but still some very concerning ones.

 

 

 

[spoiler=Thoughts on other issues]

 

Regarding Immigration and Illegal Immigrants

My biggest complaint here, and with a lot of Trump's platform for that matter, is that there doesn't seem to be any dialogue. It seems to me that these people look at these issues, and shout "THIS IS WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE!" with hardly any discussion or consideration on what might actually be the best route to address these issues. There's no consideration towards the lives of the people that Trump wants to uproot; if they have anywhere to go, what if other members, dependent members, of their families are actually still considered US citizens and how the immigration court (which has shown itself to be very bad) is actually going to tackle this problem. This is over 2 million people we're talking about, and I honestly feel like there has to be a better solution than this. People's lives are going to be ruined without a second thought, and it absolutely sucks that people are going to be okay with this.

 

Regarding Mike Pence

Kick this man out of the white house, please. There's a lot of concern that this man is going to help promote agendas that will not only harm LGBT communities, but work against religious freedoms (Which I will talk more about in my next set of thoughts) for a lot of wrong reasons. There's a lot that's suggesting this man, as well as the platform in general, plans to really bring the US backwards in terms of how far it has progressed, and I sincerely hope that this suspicion is either all wrong, or that these plans and ideas are shut down.

 

Regarding the treatment of Islam

It feels like a big violation of the first ammendment to start discriminating these people because of their religion and background. It pains me to see that so much of the US has bought into fundamental misunderstandings of what Islam is and what it's about because of the tale the media has spun regarding ISIS and middle-eastern terrorism. Western media has turned Islam into the new communist witch-hunt, and the freedom to practice religion for these people is going to be pressed upon because a lot of people buy into the shlock these news outlets are promoting. People need to spend more time educating themselves on how big of a threat terrorism is, what islam is what and what it's actually all about, and how we're essentially generalizing hundreds of millions of people over extreme minorities. There needs to be an effort made for a better understanding, not a push to fan these flames more to cause a bigger outrage. This won't fix the issue; it will be an unconstitutional plan that will essentially only fan the flames more.

 

 

 

Honestly, there are some good ideas in there; I don't think Trump is going to ruin the US at all; but there's still a lot that has me very concerned, and I want to be wrong about it. I don't want Trump to fail, because, even if it's not my country, you guys are still a close neighbor and what happens down there has a big chance to affect us up here. Have this turn out well, and please Trump, blow the expectations of the naysayers out of the water so this can all turn out good.

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Agro Newbie

Agro

Posted
Posted

give japan back millitary independence.

Japan's military independence is entirely dependent on their own constitution, which does not allow a standing army or for the country to declare war. There are those within the country that want to remove that rule, but it is a hotly contested issue.

 

even with voter fraud

no amount of eyeroll would be enough
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Sunshine Jesse Newbie

Sunshine Jesse

Posted
Posted

Regarding Mike Pence

Kick this man out of the white house, please. There's a lot of concern that this man is going to help promote agendas that will not only harm LGBT communities, but work against religious freedoms (Which I will talk more about in my next set of thoughts) for a lot of wrong reasons. There's a lot that's suggesting this man, as well as the platform in general, plans to really bring the US backwards in terms of how far it has progressed, and I sincerely hope that this suspicion is either all wrong, or that these plans and ideas are shut down.

To give Pence some credit, before he was chosen as Trump's VP, he actually called out the Muslim ban as unconstitutional.

 

Canceling Obama's executive orders is going to be absolutely disastrous on many different fronts. So will Trump's plans on healthcare, de-regulation, and especially...

 

 

 

SEVENTH, cancel billions in payments to U.N. climate change programs and use the money to fix America's water and environmental infrastructure

 

funk

he wraps an awful idea in a good-sounding proposition

 

he's literally on course to destroy the world already

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vla1ne Newbie

vla1ne

Posted
Posted

no amount of eyeroll would be enough

you clearly didn't look at the last page of the original election thread sir. go back, watch the two videos i posted there, and if you still aren't convinced, i've gotten a lot more links since then to confirm. i will not say it was hillary's idea, because that would be hard if not impossible to prove, but it was indeed attempted, and it is no stretch to think that it may have affected a decent amount of people before being spotted.

 

voting machines are made for maybe two or three days of use at maximum. how is it that they have more issues than the touchcreen panels at the DMV, which see far heavier use for far more days at a time? for them to have such a glitch, and affect mainly republican voters, casts shade on the entire election for me. but the votes are still coming in. and at this point in time, trump is actually projected to be taking the lead, even with said accusations of fraud, so it's a moot point to make now.

 

 BUT to clarify something before you guys forget why we have electoral colleges:

 in order to win the delegates in the electoral college, you have to win popular vote in said state. it's winner-takes-all, and you then add the numbers. this was invented to prevent larger states from completely ruling the election, and (usually) prevents complete domination from higher population states. second, remeber that popular vote thing? well trump did win it, in every state he got, he won popular vote. and he won almost 3 states for every 1 that hillary won. say what you will about the electoral college, but popular vote still matters, it simply prevents too much imbalance from states like california, florida, new york, and the like when measured against smaller states, it allows the smaller states to be represented more than they otherwise would. also, if popular vote were the only criteria, then democrats would likely never lose outside of insanely rare cases (like this one's shaping up to be), because california is a massive swayer of sample size. really, go look at the map. he won almost 3-1 against hillary, but she still was almost able to match him in votes (he is currently predicted to win the popular vote overall after total tallies). that is how much swaying power large states like california have, even though every state has different needs and desires. that is why the electoral college was made, so that the voters from smaller states can go up against the larger ones fairly, since they have different values, and even then, states like cali, florida, and new york still  have insane swinging power. sure the electoral college is flawed, but popular vote alone is a far worse option.

 

somebody please tell me if that last paragraph makes any sense, i'm tired, and i'm not sure i said what i wanted to right.

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mido9 Newbie

mido9

Posted
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To give Pence some credit, before he was chosen as Trump's VP, he actually called out the Muslim ban as unconstitutional.

 

Canceling Obama's executive orders is going to be absolutely disastrous on many different fronts. So will Trump's plans on healthcare, de-regulation, and especially...

 

 

f***

he wraps an awful idea in a good-sounding proposition

 

he's literally on course to destroy the world already

I mean his healthcare plan and deregulation programs are in my opinion the least objectionable, most accomplishable parts of his platform. Obamacare was a huge flop, not being able to deny for preexisting conditions killed the whole concept of insurance, not being able to compete along state lines is completely unjustified, it just forced you to buy the insurance which made it so that businesses could charge whatever they want(it's like having a monopoly that you're also forced to buy from), and it's debt financed so its costs were going to go up anyway.

 

And deregulation is pretty fine, they still have to compete among state lines and for customers, especially with lower taxes because small businesses can charge a lot less than they can because they don't have five yachts to maintain that they got by monopolizing.

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Aerion Brightflame Newbie

Aerion Brightflame

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So assuming that whatever Trump's policy towards health insurance is that it removes the part about pre-existing conditions (Thus allowing premiums to go back to 'affordable levels') what is the actual point? Because the main benefit of the ACA to my understanding was that to those with existing conditions, the people who need the benefits of insurance the most can no longer obtain it. Which to me defeats the entire point of ahealth care system if it prices out those who need it. Admittedly the argument is then that ACA has raised prices for many to the extent it negatively costs everyone, but that's what happens when you have a system that takes the worst from everyone.

 

So what would be the alternative here for those people? Because I'm assuming it won't be a single payer system, and thus I'd love to hear how Trump's theoretical idea helps these people. 

 

Would his education act technically increase the ability of schools to teach creationism say? Because that sounds like it willend wonderfully. I'd rather see him repeal stuff like 'No Child Left Behind' which would actually make a tangible difference. 

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Ryusei the Morning Star Community Regular

Ryusei the Morning Star

Posted
Posted

Huh, I don't really like abortion as a concept but idk if flat out getting rid of it now is a good idea in the slightest. 

It's pre-meditated cold blood murder

 

People who get abortions should be tried for such

 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2016/11/13/donald-trump-60-minutes-vacation-salary/93778704/

 

He turned down pay

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D.A._Sakuyamon Newbie

D.A._Sakuyamon

Posted
Posted

yes really, you don't get to commit murder because someone took advantage of you.

 

That child did nothing wrong, murder is a worse crime than rape

No it's not. At least with murder the person that dies doesn't have to go through the emotional traume that comes about through rape. Then that same trauma follows through to the child when they are made aware of it.

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