[RESULTS ARE FINAL] 2016 Election for President of the United States | Donald Trump Victory

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

http://www.npr.org/2016/10/17/498325590/melania-trump-stands-by-her-husband-dismisses-comments-as-boy-talk

 

Now, I understand that Melania comes from a country where women's rights may not be held in such high esteem as they are here and where male chauvinism may be more common(?). But this is the United States of America that we are talking about, and we hold women to be equal to men here (at least in this generation.) As an American I've never heard this kind of "boy talk" in my life and it is an unfit term for Donald's remarks. My guess is that Melania is not used to these American values about women.

Sounds like you've never been in or around greek life

 

What Trump said was tame compared to stuff said round here

 

I'm curious, if Trump said something along the lines of grab em by the dick, how many of your would be sobbing?

[Aerion Brightflame]

Trump's comments can be tame compared to what is said in some subsets of American culture. But that doesn't make it right. Because there will also be a lot of subsets where that sheet is no go. So it's not a defence; It's just a deflection trying to say 'Oh it's not actually that bad'. You can justify how outrageous it is to yourself through such logic, just as you can find it more outrageous. But it won't make his comments 'right' or 'decent'. If any presidential candidate in the US said he wanted to grab X gender by the genitals I'd be worried. Because the president is not like your racist uncle Bob down the street; He is meant to be a paragon of the nation, and be above the petty sheet like this. 

 

Obviously thats just a pipe dream this year, but hey. 

 

Only in like France or Italy can the leader of the nation get away with that sort of stuff, and even then it's only barely due to the typical images of the culture. And they have to be specific personalities like Berlousconi. 

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

BREAKING: Obama administration says http://HealthCare.gov premiums will go up by double-digit percentages next year.

 

I get to keep my Doctor though right?

 

https://twitter.com/AP/status/790659478349897728

[Aerion Brightflame]

We are like three posts in...Sigh. 

 

Okay, so it says insurance premiums will go up; Let's talk about that. What are both candidates suggesting to do about this? Trump talks about re-appealing Obamacare, but to my knowledge he is fuzzy on the details as to what will happen after that. What is he planning to replace it with, and why would it be a good thing compared to Obamacare? How will he deal with the issue of the US paying the most on average for healthcare but not receiving appropriate levels of healthcare? 

 

What will he do to deal with the problems of healthcare payments in the US? Not just deal with Obamacare, what will he do to deal with the underlying issues at heart? 

 

As far as I am aware, Hillary's intention is to build upon Obamacare and attempt to fix some of the many flaws with the system. Which is good in my mind, because if nothing else that's what Obamacare should function as; A stepping stone to get an actually effective and fair healthcare system working in the US. 

 

Let's talk about some issues here for once. 

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

We are like three posts in...Sigh. 

 

Okay, so it says insurance premiums will go up; Let's talk about that. What are both candidates suggesting to do about this? Trump talks about re-appealing Obamacare, but to my knowledge he is fuzzy on the details as to what will happen after that. What is he planning to replace it with, and why would it be a good thing compared to Obamacare? How will he deal with the issue of the US paying the most on average for healthcare but not receiving appropriate levels of healthcare? 

 

What will he do to deal with the problems of healthcare payments in the US? Not just deal with Obamacare, what will he do to deal with the underlying issues at heart? 

 

As far as I am aware, Hillary's intention is to build upon Obamacare and attempt to fix some of the many flaws with the system. Which is good in my mind, because if nothing else that's what Obamacare should function as; A stepping stone to get an actually effective and fair healthcare system working in the US. 

 

Let's talk about some issues here for once. 

The point is that Obama care is built on one false promise over another

 

You're not able to keep your original doctor, your premiums didn't go down, and drug companies are still making a killing off American blood?

 

My premium in Tennessee is nearly double what it was in Iowa, if I could get insurance from Iowa the people ripping me off atm wouldn't be able to.

 

Trump's plan is simple, competition drives down prices?

 

Also I didn't mention Trump though, just pointing out that Socialized medicine is silly (and yes, Reagan was wrong too)

[Aerion Brightflame]

I know you didn't mention Trump. You didn't mention much of anything in your post, just two link, a meme and about 8 words. I mentioned Trump and Clinton because I figured that a story like that could lead into a policy discussion, because policy discussion can be useful and interesting.

 

Don't confuse Obamacare with socialised healthcare as it exists in Europe or Canada say. It's the worst of multiple systems. Implemented properly you'd just be paying a minor amount of tax, and then at most minor bills for almost any conventional treatment or surgery. But a combination of drug companies, insurance companies and hospitals running for profit make that impossible currently because it inflates prices beyond reason. 

 

Think about the good things Obamacare achieved as well; The fact you can no longer be excluded for pre-existing conditions saves many an absolute fortune. What would Trump do for those people by removing the ACA? Opening up some degree of the work force because people aren't reliant on jobs for health insurance, and helping many more (Something like 10% of the population) get some degree of health insurance in the first place. What does Trump have in place to help maintain these benefits say? 

 

And surely competition can't drive down prices that much? If drug companies decide prices on there drugs, there's only a finite amount of room insurance companies could move between. Because Medicine and medical care is something that people need. Necessities behave differently on the market than luxuries, because you can continue to inflate the price and people will be forced to match the price raise. 

 

So perhaps allowing 'the market' to decide prices might deal with insurance premium rises (Which have been on the cards before Obamacare I believe due to the expiration of a deal made in like 2014), but what about the other things Obamacare sought to fix? What does simply removing it actually do to the underlying problems? 

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Well Trump has pledged to keep the pre-existing conditions like part that Obamacare has

 

"TRUMP: I agree with that 100%, except pre-existing conditions, I would absolutely get rid of ObamaCare. I want to keep pre- existing conditions. It's a modern age, and I think we have to have it.

Q: The insurance companies say is that the only way that they can cover people with pre-existing conditions is to have a mandate requiring everybody purchase health insurance. Are they wrong?

TRUMP: I think they're wrong 100%. Look, the insurance companies take care of the politicians [and vice-versa]. The insurance companies are making an absolute fortune. Yes, they will keep preexisting conditions, and that would be a great thing"

[(GigaDrillBreaker)]

Keep in mind that, though healthcare premiums are higher than in 2008, the rate at which they have risen has significantly declined since the institution of the ACA.

 

This is similar to the common attack against Obama regarding GDP growth, in that it takes statistics out of context to skew their meaning.

 

[spoiler=also, for those uninformed about the candidate's healthcare policies, this video was very helpful to me:]

inb4 winter flipping the funk out over the video

 

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Thoughts of a disaffected liberal looking at this election

 

I've wanted to write this for a while so here goes

 

Having grown up in an urban center (and most liberal city in my state) my molding into a liberal was an aggregate of influences by those around me from my staunch feminist mother to my socialist-yet-economically-successful father. Throughout life, I was warned about the terrible monster known as the GOP and it's fight against everything decent and kind.

 

Be it an unhealthy love for warfare, pandering to the elite/rich/and powerful, or lobbyist seemingly weaponizing the Constitution against those less fortunate, the stereotypical conservative was largely painted an angry mob of cis, straight, white, scared, hateful, (insert other relevant descriptor here), people who would only see my non-white skin, my non-Anglo ethnicity, my sexuality as flaws and undesirable traits that had no place in society.

 

I was raised early to be wary of both the "uneducated" sheep and their country club controllers that made up the GOP. For an example, one of my cousin's attempt to change my vote was "x person doesn't give a damn about your brownness)

 

For three generations (I include my siblings), family has slowly grown successful. By all objective measures, we are part of the 1% (and ironically enough, I feel my parents, or at least my father, has become one of those very controllers he so despises). 

 

But unlike my parents and to their constant disappointment, I gravitated center left, rather than slide further left. A large portion of this is due to my siblings who instilled an early respect for economics and money management in me. Rather to look up to my parents, my fascination was more with my grandparents who came to this country with little and helped raise and educate their children to be successful as they are today. America in my eyes is a country of equal and ample opportunity and potential outcome. But never the less, a country still rooted in care and kindness- a shining city on the hill.

 

Opportunity should be safeguarded; alms should be stomped out. Conditions should be improved; illusions, however, are not acceptable. For an example, the living condition in this country is pitiful currently. Those making fewer than 30K USD per year live miserable lives in most cases. To be frank, not even lives that can be considered "living"

 

I agree that our current wage system doesn't allow the least fortunate to prosper. But in my eyes, the idea is not more government being initially used to dictate a certain wage that firms must provide. In my eyes, the government has a duty to both protect the worker and the wage, and the way to do so is make an equilibrium wage, also a living wage. The government's job is not to attempt to re-write economics, but rather to re-write the system to take care of it's most vulnerable citizen. How would I do this? I would offer farms incentives to produce more at a lower cost, I would reduce taxes on firms and I would provide capital until it became disadvantageous to lay off workers (if the goal is still to maximize profit). And at this point, the demand for labor itself will drive up the wage rate. If all else fails, the government should then step in and promote and economically justified, yet humanely sustainable wage rate.

 

A "minimum wage" as it stands today is an illusion in my eyes. It puts the firms between a rock and a hard place. Either workers are laid off to sustain costs, or workers don't receive their wage, or you force a firm to take both losses and they flee our country in seek of profit. This in my eyes is an illusion. It's not kind to those who will eventually be worse off than before, and it certainly doesn't promote equal opportunity

 

In this regard, I was reluctantly open to the idea of Hillary Clinton being president from an economic standpoint. While she didn't subscribe to my economic ideology in every industry, at least with regard to the farm industry it seemed that she understood the need to move the equilibrium wage to match a living wage.

 

And it wasn't just economics: globally while I was concerned about her previous efforts in favor of war, I was hopeful due to her attempts to provide a reset with Russia. And to the surprise of many, I felt she cared for the people.

 

When the right ate Hillary alive for her comments on coal miners, I was quite irritated at the political spin. In context she was attempting to say that there would need to be jobs created for miners in the ever retreating coal industry. Why was she demonized I wondered.

 

Her fondness of the Trans-Pacific Partnership I felt however was dangerous, it was, in my eyes, a GOP wearing a liberal skin.

 

At least she was calling for  reasonable women’s rights, LGBT rights, and as a lifelong democrat she seemed like she was the best choice to move our country forward. Realistically, what were my other options?

 

Bernie Sanders? A man who's intentions I still admire to this day, but who's ideas and methods horrify me. There was no reasonable method to funding "free-college" and single-payer healthcare for everyone. In him I saw economic disaster and a lack of feasibility. Not if you flogged every rich man in the nation could you extract the pound of flesh needed to sate Bernie's plans as it stood.

 

And, while I grew up in a progressively secular home, I felt enough empathy on issues such as abortion to cling to Sec. Clinton's old slogan, that abortion should be "safe, legal and rare, and by rare, I mean rare"

 

Ideas such as repealing the Hyde Amendment likewise horrified me. Where was the choice in that matter? I would be forced to pay for something I personally hate. That's not pro-choice.

 

As for the GOP, there was the Jeb! The younger brother of the man who had wreaked so much pain on my country. A man who it seemed would finish the work his brother had started. 

 

There was Kasich, male Hillary who cared a little less about the poor and a little more for the rich

 

And there was Ted Cruz, who I feel speaker Boehner described best as "Lucifer in the flesh"

 

None of them had any traits superior to Hillary, but certainly had traits worse.

 

And who could forget Donald Trump. Mexicans are rapists am I right? A clown.

 

But then something happened. Hillary Clinton became the likely Democratic nominee. And with that I started to see her true face.

 

People online and at college had told me constantly Sec. Clinton was wicked for this and that reason, and while I felt on many issues she could have been better, I felt that these were no more than partisan rumblings.

 

I believed that at her heart Sec. Clinton was a firm centrist, maybe a little more left and a little more right than me on certain issues, but a similar spirit all the same. After all, Bill Clinton had been the best president of my lifetime.

 

I then slowly looked deeper into Clinton. And saw that I didn't recognize what I saw. First it was abortion. The rare vanished without a trace. 

 

Then it was a minimum wage, from no change to $12 to $15. No economic counterbalance was mentioned. Why? She calculated. She needed to swing to Bernie's lunacy to win her election. 

 

The election, she was so dearly owed. 

 

I remained confident that she's thought of Bernie as no more than a feint, and thankfully wikileaks has proved me right on such. But republicans and most importantly my liberal sister started looking at Donald Trump as Hillary's flux became so much clearer

 

Mr. Trump? The man who's ideas varied from unconstitutional to rude. But did Hillary threaten to destroy the women were assaulted by Bill? Did she really laugh about a court case where she was defending a child rapist? 

 

Then I found out that Hillary had doubled down on her support for the coup in Honduras which directly resulted in the murder of 174 LGBT activists. Then again she only changed her position on LGBT when she had no other choice. Then I found out about how her foundation funneled money from Haiti relief funds to "friends of Bill"

 

As for war? The more one looked into Hillary past, the more saber rattling it seemed she loves to do.

 

Was Mr. Trump worse than Sec. Clinton? At the time of the Tennessee Primary on super Tuesday, it wasn't sure.

 

So I made the safe choice of voting for Hillary Clinton with a little prodding from my family on the matter. As time went on the  differences between the two likely candidates, Trump and Hillary, became stark. 

 

Donald Trump is a womanizer, he is an jabroni. But he's not willing to bend the knee to the Bernie wing of politics and be politically correct. I like that

 

He has said stupid things (what the funk is clean coal??) and often ignores golden opportunities (Brexit? Jobs Report? Wikileaks? 12 Million Twitter Followers?)

 

 I don't like this.

 

But Sec. Clinton is a embodiment of everything wrong with our current government. She is an elite political class citizen with ties to big corporations and big banks who has a political track record of scandals and failed foreign policy who will say anything and everything to get where she wants to get. 

 

What about Mr. Trump? Well he opposes TPP. Sec. Clinton has long hailed the TPP and other free trade agreements as gold standards. She claims she won't support TPP anymore. Wikileaks disagrees. Her allies disagree. Her past disagrees. Should I trust her?

 

How does Trump perform? In 2000 he defended gay anti discrimination laws and called for the repeal of “don’t ask, don’t tell.”

 

As I bisexual man, I appreciate someone standing up for my rights BEFORE it was politically a must to do so

 

He sued the city of Miami to desegregate the Mar-a-Lago against Blacks and Jews

 

He's for a more moderate abortion stance, one that doesn't punish women for circumstance, and one that supports women for chance. A stark contrast from Hillary's adoption of Bernie's plan

 

Do I hate Trump's policies on the Death Penalty and Criminal Justice reform? Sure, he's not perfect

 

He calls for cooperating with Russia as opposed to Clinton asking for a no-fly zone that won't do anything but antagonize Russia. Daesh doesn't have planes. Democrats, independents, republicans, even Bernie Sanders agree on this.

 

This list could be bigger, maybe endless, I've spent the last six months detailing exactly why I've come to despise Hillary haven't I?

 

I cannot tell any of my liberal friends that I voted for Donald J. Trump. The name list (you know, bigot, xenophobe, racist, lol, homophobe, white supremacist) will drop on me like a sack of bricks.

 

A good indicator of a good candidate? The media. If the media relentlessly attacks for literally anything, dig deeper.

 

Recently I found out, just the other day people were screaming about how Donald Trump Jr  may have put lemonade in his ‘water cup’ at In-n-Out — and it isn’t just one article, dozens of articles and tens of thousands of tweets all about Donald Trump Jr maybe putting lemonade into his free water cup.

 

funking C'mon. This is like the time y'all lost your funking sheet over a cartoon frog and skittles. 

 

Everyday the media spins a wheel to find out how they can we shower faux outrage on Mr. Trump today

 

I want to hear serious talk about Wikileaks and the Podesta emails. I want a real answer about  Sec. Clinton’s private and Public positions statement.

 

It's gotten so bad that I've had to resort to the funking Hannity for real discussions on what these leaks since the rest of these dimwits have their head so far up Hillary's jabroni they can't see sheet from gold

 

I want to know how we will repair our relations with Russia, not dissolve them further.

 

But all anyone ever wants to hear is why Mr. Trump is jerk while they completely ignore the horrifying future (or lack thereof) that may be in store for our country under  Sec. Clinton.

 

I know that no matter what I say, to my liberal friends, I've committed a sacred act of treason. There is no forgiveness. 

 

I know that my parents and relatives despise me for support for Mr. Trump. I'm a race traitor and homegrown misogynist in their eyes. My mother recently told me I'm no son of hers. It's about time. My siblings raised me, and she's finally realized what I learned 5 years ago.

 

It's a sad day that it a republican nominee who wants to have a calm discussion about foreign and economic policy and not the democrat. JFK is rolling in his grave and Reagan is laughing at you all. 

 

I am a lifetime Liberal and I support Donald Trump. I filled out my ballot for him 3 days ago, and today I left the Democratic party that has been so eager to leave me. I won't join the GOP, because those like Speaker Ryan and Gov. Kasich disgust me as much as Bernie as the regressive left, so don't worry about that.

 

So to those who oppose Trump I say this, 

 

We are here living in the shadows you put us in. Within your safe city lie the the liberal Trump supporters who you have pushed into hiding with your political correctness.

 

On November 8th we will be voting for Trump and we are many, make no mistake. Expect us.

 

Whether he wins or not, you have lost us for a generation. That may be music to your ears, and based on what I've seen, it likely is.

 

I just hope you remember the GOP likewise arrogantly discarded the blacks to satisfy it's fringe, and have never gotten them back to this day.  

[Sunshine Jesse]

I'm not against Trump because he's a jerk. I'm not against him because of political correctness. I'm against him because in him I see a self-interested narcissist. I see someone who shamelessly panders to any demographic he can to gain power, even when he's been on record supporting exactly what he now champions against. He undermines our political process at every opportunity, his campaign does the exact same things he accuses us of doing, and pays people who are known to doctor and falsify information.

 

He has no consistent positions. He's a complete unknown. He's untrustworthy on a level that Clinton couldn't even approach.

 

And our voting generation picks up on it.

 

They haven't lost our generation at all, because most of us are actually smart enough to see through it. You can blame all these news stories and polls on some grand conspiracy all you want, but the point is that it absolutely has nothing to do with political correctness.

 

This is why I believe Trump is a self-interested conman and narcissist and why his ardent supporters are nothing but a cult.

 

It's because they refuse to understand or accept just why people hate them and their candidate so much.

 

I don't feel any less betrayed or disillusioned by the establishment than you do. I just have the common sense not to trust a candidate who promises the world when all he's shown he's willing to give us is the dick.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

I wasn't talking about our generation at all. Our generation is largely lost from my stand point. More are like you than me. It saddens me, but it happens with every generation...they will eventually change

 

I was talking about Centrist democrats. The blue dogs. They started to leave once Obama came, Bernie has finished that job. Clinton had every chance to keep up in the fold, but genuine or not, Trump realized how to talk to us while Clinton chose your ilk over him.

 

Trump wanted partial birth abortions and government funding for them in the 90's. Trump was willing to support the what I perceive as the right choice when it wasn't politically favorable for him. Like LGBT. I can respect a man who is willing to change and pour his own money into that change over a woman who parrots what ever she needs to say at the time.

 

I promise you, if god forbid that women gets elected. She will betray you on every single regard just as she did me. 

 

You, giga, bright, cowcow and roxas are so far left you don't even realize we exist. It's saddening, but at least #sheswithyoumaybe

[Sunshine Jesse]

Oh.

 

Centrist democrats and blue dogs aren't liberal by definition. They're generally conservatives dressed up as liberals to fit in. Kind of like Obama, actually!

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Oh.

 

Centrist democrats and blue dogs aren't liberal by definition. They're generally conservatives dressed up as liberals to fit in. Kind of like Obama, actually!

case in point :/

You, giga, bright, cowcow and roxas are so far left you don't even realize we exist. It's saddening, but at least #sheswithyoumaybe

 

 

we'll see which on one of us our generation takes after 

 

You linked one poll yes

 

18-44 41% 33% 15% 5% 3% 4%

Here's another

 

Though I suppose it does include late gen x's

 

I'll tell you what though, as anecdotal as it may be, the new kids, you know the millennials younger than me, are in my exp, are to me what I am to you

 

You might not hate Trump thanks to PC, but we sure as hell reject you thanks to (PC) 

 

I encourage you to listen tho this

 

[Sunshine Jesse]

I'm perfectly aware your kind exists, I just think it's entirely dishonest to call yourself a liberal when a large amount of your policies and opinions are anything but. If anything, you're an in-denial conservative with a few liberal views that boil down to "basic human decency."

 

It's really telling that you have to lie to yourself about what Trump stands for to even support him.

 

Also, I have three standards for Hillary:

 

Appoint semi-liberal/moderate SCOTUS judges.

Don't do anything economy-ruining-ly stupid like lower taxes, especially for the rich.

Don't ruin our pursuit of social progress by pinning the responsibility on the states.

 

That's it. That's all I ever wanted.

 

To try to tell me she'll fail me on every front when my standards are so low is nothing more than spewing empty, sensationalist rhetoric at me.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Call it what you want to call it, your ilk have left my side party-less. We were the original democrats of the 90's and 20's till Obama planted daggers in our backs

 

Lie bout what? Trump being a Blue Dog? Trump is basically an ideological double on most issues to 96 and 92 Bill, I'm not the one lying to myself about my candidate. He's the first one in ages that finally represents my economic views. Sure Sanders may get to the same conclusion in the end, but his means spell a certain disaster for America

 

I'm not as socially left as you. Well I might be on LGB, but I'm sure you'll dismiss that as personal bias.

 

I'll give you the first

 

I won't give you the second, she'll start a war, and unlike NSSE that would actually destroy our economy 

 

Number 3 is one of the reasons I still like HRC, she holds the same disdain for you lot that I do

 

1/3 Enjoy it, Trump has already done a ton for me in putting political correctness to the sword, and he's just starting. Trumpism isn't going anywhere

[Phantom Roxas]

Sounds like you've never been in or around greek life

 

What Trump said was tame compared to stuff said round here

 

I'm curious, if Trump said something along the lines of grab em by the dick, how many of your would be sobbing?

 

Seriously, you're already back to making this personal?

 

You, giga, bright, cowcow and roxas are so far left you don't even realize we exist. It's saddening, but at least #sheswithyoumaybe

You can stop with your generalizations.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

 

Seriously, you're already back to making this personal?

 

 

You can stop with your generalizations.

????

 

It's common to make vulgar yet flirty talk like that in Greek mate. If Ctr felt personalized by my post, he know me well enough to alert me to the matter

 

I'm not, Jesse admitted to it like 2 posts up. I'm not even liberal anymore because I'm not as far out socially as y'all. Do you care to disagree with Jesse's conclusions?

 

----

 

It goes all the way up

 

[Dad]

You, giga, bright, cowcow and roxas are so far left you don't even realize we exist. It's saddening, but at least #sheswithyoumaybe

 

Well, that didn't take long.  You're really racking 'em up, aren't you? Boy, the end of this election is going to be mystifying.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Well, that didn't take long.  You're really racking 'em up, aren't you? Boy, the end of this election is going to be mystifying.

What're you talking about Dad, the alienation of the Blue Dog Democrats was done by the progressive left, they've all claimed to be proud to be progressive left, so what's wrong with me saying that they're implicit in the movement that has pushed people like me to Trump?

 

STATEWIDE RESULTS (NEW)

 

 

 

 

http://axiomstrategies.com/abc/

 

 

 Colorado 45% 43% Clinton +2

Florida 46% 46% TIED

Nevada 44% 47% Trump +3

North Carolina 44% 47% Trump +3

Ohio 42% 46% Trump +4

Pennsylvania 45% 42% Clinton +3

Virginia 48% 43% Clinton +5

Wisconsin 46% 41% Clinton +5

 

Honestly the crazy part is looking at PA and OH. White Women have abandoned Trump en mass while he's pulling low to high 20's in Black Votes

 

They're practically tied in Pittsburgh (43-45), only reason HRC is up in PA is all the white philly suburbs that romney coasted went HRC 

 

Personally, good ridden. Teddy would be proud to see his party back. This protectionist workers party is one I could see myself as part of

[Aerion Brightflame]

The fact this is not a thread to lay blame at individuals. Because it's a discussion, not an intervention. 

 

If you think that liberals pushed you out of your party (Which is unlikely because the DNC isn't the liberals party. As a whole there is nowhere for liberals or socialists to go that actually suits them compared to centre left, which is what Obama was), then that is fine. There is no need to directly call people in this thread with left aligned viewpoints (Some of whom aren't even funking American) out to blame for this. Because we have funk all to do with the greater political movements of the nation. 

 

If you think that the movement of political parties is worth discussing, bring up talking points about it. Talk about how the Democrats successfully taking control of the centre of US politics forced the Republicans further and further to the right under the guise of the Tea party. And how that changed them from being a conservative party into an obstructionist one due to a need to please the insane base. 

 

Talk about how the GOP looks like it will fracture in the wake of this, and how you may get a legitimate conservative party out of it. Talk about how Sanders generating a wave of liberal representatives in state legislature and how that may change the DNC. 

 

Talk about something of substance that's not devolving into personal sheet. Not individual minutiae of the campaign, not more 'leaks' that show either nothing of substance, or nothing new, not individual polls, not random personal attacks blaming people in this thread for sheet because of our political viewpoints. Please, talk about something with substance to it for more than one post in a row. It's not funking hard. 

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Sure

 

Axiom polls show the change happening I think

 

Rich Globalist whites will leave the Republican party and flock to either the Dems if HRC like people run it or libertarians

 

Poor working class Blacks and Whites will flee the democratic party and come over to the Trumpian wing which will remold in a Teddy Roosevelt type party. Blue Dogs will be the representative group of this. Social moderates, economic neo-moderates

 

Dems will have no choice but to go sanders wing, HRC can play her con game, but at most it'll be for 8 years. People have bought into sanders

 

Regardless, America will be an isolationist nation that will strive to remove money from politics from both the left and the right.

 

Best case, you get three functional parties with Libertarians getting enough out of both the Dems and the Reps to compete on a national scale. But I doubt it. They'll go from 5-7% to 10-12% me thinks

 

Obama term 1 was center left. Obama term 2 is not, he's been taken over by both PC SJWs and Globalists 

 

Edit:

 

It's not really blame, the party wants to go that way, I don't. I think they're representative of a catalyzing movement that has set the dems in that path. It's not my place to say if it's right or wrong. Blame means I'm assigning wrongdoing. I've always supporter majority rule haven't I? The majority of the dems want to sandersize and that's fine by me. I'll voted Trump this time and I'll watch to see where my new home should be

[Dad]

Poor working class Blacks and Whites will flee the democratic party and come over to the Trumpian wing

 

Damn, you sure know a lot about us poor working class black folk.  I'm waiting on that revelation to happen, because right now, I'm not aligned with anyone.  I'd love to hear your ravishing tale about "poor working class blacks".  I'm sure you'll enlighten me on my own situation.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Damn, you sure know a lot about us poor working class black folk.  I'm waiting on that revelation to happen, because right now, I'm not aligned with anyone.  I'd love to hear your ravishing tale about "poor working class blacks".  I'm sure you'll enlighten me on my own situation.

*backs off*

 

I don't know about you poor working black folk tbh.

 

I'm just looking at a set of polls and looking back historically

 

Trump is looking fairly similar to Teddy Roosevelt in terms of what he's advocating for, so when I see a poll match demographics up with what Teddy used to have, I see a realignment. That being said:

 

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/05/2016-election-realignment-partisan-political-party-policy-democrats-republicans-politics-213909

 

There's no need to get touchy, I'm not the first person to say a change is in the air

[Phantom Roxas]

????

 

It's common to make vulgar yet flirty talk like that in Greek mate. If Ctr felt personalized by my post, he know me well enough to alert me to the matter

 

I'm not, Jesse admitted to it like 2 posts up. I'm not even liberal anymore because I'm not as far out socially as y'all. Do you care to disagree with Jesse's conclusions?

So you're claiming you're not making generalizations, and then you go right to making further generalizations anyway.

 

You asked "I'm curious, if Trump said something along the lines of grab em by the dick, how many of your would be sobbing?" That was a poor deflection technique, and you've established a trend in this thread where if anyone shows disagreement with something you support, you dismiss them as sobbing, crying, or whining about "faux outrage", generally belittling the people just because they don't share your viewpoint. Your attitude throughout this thread has not been good for what the Debates section is meant to encourage.

 

There's no need to get touchy, I'm not the first person to say a change is in the air

And here's another example. You always blame how someone reacts to you.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

No, I'm claiming I'm not blaming (in the strict definition of the word being negative ) the progressive liberal left of America for the alienation of the center left. I'm absolutely making a generalization. I think Giga, you, and Jesse are fine examples of the future of the Democratic party 

 

A future I find reprehsible and want no part in? Yes of course, but the people have spoken their will so it's time for me to respect that it's no longer "my" party.

 

Isn't that a Non sequitur? The whole deal with the dick grab question was to point out how we overly objectify women and then act outraged but that society wouldn't do so in the same magnitude for a man

 

It's a small tangent into the larger problem of male apathy in our society. 

 

As for Dad, I was being genuine. I didn't mean to offend him, I was just confirming a view that I believed in (that a political realignment) was happening. I'm confused why he took it personally, but seeing my intention wasn't to offend, I have no problem apologizing to him

 

@Dad, sorry busta