[RESULTS ARE FINAL] 2016 Election for President of the United States | Donald Trump Victory

[Tentacruel]

Quality of the candidates aside, I think we should avoid making generalizations about everyone voting for either candidate. 

 

A lot of America is under the impression they have to vote for one of them. 

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Rape: Unlawful sexual activity carried out forcibly or under threat of injury against the will of a [country] person who is incapable of valid consent

 

Remove Sexual, and replace person with country, and I think you can pretty clearly say that we're being economically raped by these trade deals. 

 

The level of currency manipulation china is doing is unlawful

​Carried out forcibly because they respond to critique with back tariffs

The US public is not capable of valid consent

 

If my use of "rape" triggers you, I can find a different word to describe this travesty  

[Aerion Brightflame]

How about any term not deliberately trying to elicit an emotional response so that the matter of foreign policy can be discussed with a clear and objective head instead of a 'OMG this is an outrage'? 

 

Sorry to make such a short post, but there really is no need to use such an obviously emotive term for this that requires you to twist the language to force the narrative. If China are deliberately shorting the US dollar, then there can be a simple objective discussion on what the US can do to try and negotiate - Not 'OMG China is funking us so hard, we need to get payback on them cause we are 'Murica and we don't get treated like that'. It's just irritating because you are trying illicit emotional responses and arguments to win your side instead of through any merit to the argument. 

 

Basically like most political campaigns. Because funk the issues, all that matters is people feel like they are going to make things better right? 

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

 

Sorry to make such a short post

 

You have my reluctant forgiveness.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Saying the word rape makes you all emotional now?

 

I mean I could say they've systematically manipulated the supply of loanable funds by left-shifting the national savings to artificially drive down the yen/dollar exchange rate to prop up the net exports of china products through an inhumane system of substandard wages 

 

TL;DR They've been maintaining a trade surplus at the expense of a US trade deficit, which is all fine and dandy for you self-entitled college millennials, but it violates the livelihood of people who actually do a hard days work of trying to create something instead of jabroniing about emote words 

 

But I feel like "rape" encapsulates that dire discription of the chinese (and mexican) market in a more user friendly tone

[Phantom Roxas]

Hmm, sorry for missing this.

 

Lets see: Read Ivana's testimony, she said she did not in the "criminal sense"

 

Poor attempt to make language in TV drama sit coms politically relevant, context is useful

 

Epstein is a dirtbag, but what does LGBT have to do with Epstein? IK you're gonna turn this on me, but you do realize that Bill and Hillary are also close to Epstein or were?

 

So him tapping a well known catholic as part of his push to get catholic voters is of more importance than Trump giving a openly gay man a prime time spot in the RCN? Hell the most coveted spot after Trump's speech itself

 

He's doing > Romney and most republicans actually

 

Yeh Pence has a shifty history with regards to LGBT, so do most people including Trump's opponent

 

No, she said "I do not want my words to be interpreted in a literal or criminal sense.” She still maintains that she felt "violated".

 

What language from sitcoms are you referring to? It's hilarious that you talk about context being useful, given how you take things out of context.

 

I wasn't associating Epstein with the LGBT community. I was saying that, if Trump's association with anti-LGBT politicians can reflect on Trump himself, then a similar association with Epstein could also make it likely that Trump and Epstein coordinated with each other about rape. I don't know about the Clintons' association with Epstein, but once again, you're changing the subject. Every single time we make a criticism against Trump, you insist on turning this back on Clinton. How many times do I have to say that I don't like Hillary? You can cry "BUT WHAT ABOUT HILLARY?" all you want, but that does nothing to answer my criticisms of Trump.

 

Do you mean Peter Thiel? The guy who beat down Gawker because he's an influential billionaire who can control the media because he hates the media just as much as Trump does? Should I be impressed? Read this article from The Wrap, as they generally point out how that was uncharacteristic, and not completely inspiring. http://www.thewrap.com/donald-trump-embraces-gays-in-historic-shout-out-at-republican-national-convention/

 

And yes, him tapping a Catholic in his push is of more important, because given how some Republicans hold on to anti-LGBT beliefs, it's like Trump aligning with two sides directly opposed to one another. I know Clinton has held a strong opposition to the LGBT community, but that isn't what I was talking about. Once again, I complain about Trump, and your response is basically just "BUT CLINTON!" So you acknowledge that everyone else has this issues. Are you going to own up to Trump being just as guilty? I'm asking you to recognize that Trump does something wrong. I'm not ignoring Clinton, but you complain about me turning this back on you when I'm just not falling for your distractions. You move the goalposts, and then I put them back. If you're afraid of me "turning this" on you, then just stick to the point I'm talking about.

 

Rape: Unlawful sexual activity carried out forcibly or under threat of injury against the will of a [country] person who is incapable of valid consent[/size]

 

Remove Sexual, and replace person with country, and I think you can pretty clearly say that we're being economically raped by these trade deals. [/size]

 

The level of currency manipulation china is doing is unlawful[/size]

​Carried out forcibly because they respond to critique with back tariffs

The US public is not capable of valid consent

 

If my use of "rape" triggers you, I can find a different word to describe this travesty  

 

You want to ramble about the country being "raped", whatever, but how about you acknowledge the various reports implicating Trump as a rapist? Or would admitting that Trump is a rapist be too inconvenient for you defending him?

 

Saying the word rape makes you all emotional now?

 

I mean I could say they've systematically manipulated the supply of loanable funds by left-shifting the national savings to artificially drive down the yen/dollar exchange rate to prop up the net exports of china products through an inhumane system of substandard wages 

 

TL;DR They've been maintaining a trade surplus at the expense of a US trade deficit, which is all fine and dandy for you self-entitled college millennials, but it violates the livelihood of people who actually do a hard days work of trying to create something instead of jabroniing about emote words 

 

But I feel like "rape" encapsulates that dire discription of the chinese (and mexican) market in a more user friendly tone

 

You think casually throwing around the word "rape" is user friendly?

 

And yes, we can get emotional about the use of the word rape. It's a serious subject. What are you are doing is simplifying the word as though it were no big deal.

[Aerion Brightflame]

Saying the word rape makes you all emotional now?

 

I mean I could say they've systematically manipulated the supply of loanable funds by left-shifting the national savings to artificially drive down the yen/dollar exchange rate to prop up the net exports of china through an inhumane system of substandard wages 

 

But I feel like "rape" encapsulates that dire discription of the chinese (and mexican) market in a more user friendly tone

 

I don't think it's a stretch to say that rape is an emotive word. It might be a clinical term, but it creates a feeling of revulsion. It implies force, and unwillingness. It implies pain and shame and anger. The fact that you have to change the definition of the word to fit the context and the story you are trying to push about 'these big bad nations hurting the lives of the innocent everyday American' means that's it's inappropriate to use unless you are using it emotively. 

 

Rape when not used in it's clinical meaning is an emotive term designed to create a specific emotional response connected to the emotional responses people have to rape in real life. 

 

It is just as fair to say that the Chinese are being unfair towards the US dollar through there business decisions. It describes the exact same process as your 'rape' one does, but it is not as extreme and not as emotive. Whilst I am one to normally embrace a dramatic flourish in ones writing, we don't want that sort of thing in political debate because it detracts from the issues. 

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Well sure, Trump could do more for LGBT, but he's the one in this race on record supporting it in the 90's when it wasn't politically smart to. He's also the most LGBT friendly republican thus far. Now you can say "not enough" which I'll concede, but there's a reason why he's getting more LGBT than any republican before him, and that's cause he's an improvement

 

@Trump being a rapist, I thought we agreed innocent until proven guilty? Or can I call "Miss Piggy" an accomplice to murder?

 

The whole pt on Epstein was you'd be hardpressed to find a politician who hasn't interacted with the man, it's not anything uniquely dirty on Trump...

 

The goalpost hasn't moved, find me any of these smear stories that singularly implicate Trump. But Hillary is a valid argument because she's been as bad if not worse in her life. So when you've got choices, one is clearly worse than the other

 

Ah yes, Gwaker, this would be the stellar journalism that published a video of girl being funked and told the her father the best thing to do was not bring attention to it right? Also the same publication that outed Theil for being gay? For such a paragon of social justice, not entirely sure why you're seemingly defending the standard barer of yellow journalism. 

 

The only critique of Thiel I have is he didn't file civil suits against the "journalists" individually and bankrupt each of those fucks as well 

 

 

I don't think it's a stretch to say that rape is an emotive word. It might be a clinical term, but it creates a feeling of revulsion. It implies force, and unwillingness. It implies pain and shame and anger. The fact that you have to change the definition of the word to fit the context and the story you are trying to push about 'these big bad nations hurting the lives of the innocent everyday American' means that's it's inappropriate to use unless you are using it emotively. 

 

Rape when not used in it's clinical meaning is an emotive term designed to create a specific emotional response connected to the emotional responses people have to rape in real life. 

 

It is just as fair to say that the Chinese are being unfair towards the US dollar through there business decisions. It describes the exact same process as your 'rape' one does, but it is not as extreme and not as emotive. Whilst I am one to normally embrace a dramatic flourish in ones writing, we don't want that sort of thing in political debate because it detracts from the issues. 

Yeah, every one of those adjectives you used to describe rape applies to the plight of people in the midwest who are busting their ass only to get short changed by china giving no fucks about regulation

 

The only word I dropped form the definition would be sexual, it's an economic rape of America pure and simple. Anyone who has to deal with the blunt end of that reality, is emotional about their pain, and that's why Trump is consistently leading HRC on trade and the economy

 

Your guy's faux outrage at me belittling or trivializing rape is exactly why this country is going down the drain 

 

And Roxas, no I'm not defending Trump if he raped that girl, I'm saying it currently looks shifty and not with much ground to stand upon. Epstein's victims didn't hide behind anonymity, I don't see why people would suddenly do it from Trump. So give me a court verdict and I'll take it more srsly.

 

Edit:

 

It should make you emotional and upset, instead of someone's vagina being violated, their entire life is being violated. And our politicians are standing by and laughing. The emotion shouldn't be directed at me for dropping sexual from the def of rape but rather at the people who are eagerly pushing for the further economic rape of america

[(GigaDrillBreaker)]

Well sure, Trump could do more for LGBT, but he's the one in this race on record supporting it in the 90's when it wasn't politically smart to.

Back then I was like 2.

 

He has given no real indication that it is a goal of his campaign, so what he did in the past really isn't of consequence.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Back then I was like 2.

 

He has given no real indication that it is a goal of his campaign, so what he did in the past really isn't of consequence.

Intriguing that anything negative he did in that same time period is fair game though.

 

But I agree, he's not done enough. He stood up against Cruz and defended the right of Trans people to use w/e bathroom they wanted - which you can say is common decency and shouldn't be applauded, but context, he sold that message to evangelical social conservatives and beat a bible thumper with evangelicals despite it

[Phantom Roxas]

You actually are calling her "Miss Piggy", so you just outright insulted her and displayed support for the name. The accusation against her was almost twenty years ago, and did not result in a guilty verdict, while the trial against Trump has yet to reach any verdict. You cannot call Alicia Machado an accomplice to murder, since it was already decided that she was not. Since Trump does not have that same luxury as Machado, I do get to criticize him.

 

How many other interactions with Epstein have been linked to rape? I only hear this about Trump.

 

Several of us have posted stories that implicate only Trump, but then you argue that the source isn't credible, criticize Trump's victims instead of Trump himself, or take words out of context as if that proves Trump innocent. So we have done exactly as you ask, but that is when you move the goalposts. You just don't want to admit that there's a possibility that Trump alone is guilty, so you change the subject to Hillary. I understand that there are valid arguments against her, but those are not the arguments I was making.

 

Oh, Gawker sucks and did deserve to go down, but Peter Thiel only beat it because he had the money to do so, which means that the people running Gawker weren't properly put in a position where they could realize that everything that they had done was wrong.

 

How is us disagreeing with your belittlement of rape an example of this country's failure? It just means that we have little tolerance for people who take tragedies so lightly.

 

I do believe that you're defending Trump, since you immediately tried to discredit the defendant's position, rather than consider the possibility that Trump may be guilty. If you want a verdict, we still have until October 14th.

[Aerion Brightflame]

I didn't say funk about you trivialising it or some how making it a non issue by using it in this context. Do not think I am acting like a 'SJW', my argument actually has nothing to do with rape itself. Do not attempt to belittle me by trying to change the argument I am making that again tries to fit in your narrative of the election. 

 

It is solely about usage of emotive language in an enviroment where it has very little place. Your use of the langauge is designed specifically to make the readers think a specific set of feelings towards the issue. But if the issue actually mattered like that, you should be able to show the exact same thing with more objective language. If your issue is that China is unfair towards to the US, and that needs to change - You write just that. That China is being unfair, you then list why China is being unfair, you propose alternatives that would change this, and you then open it up to the rest of us. 

 

Writing 'China is raping the US' and nothing else does absolutely nothing to further the discussion. You did not highlight any issues, or create any points of discussion. You just said something emotional that only serves to make us say 'That's outrageous' or 'that's bollocks'. If you don't want me to comment on this sort of sheet, do better and actually contribute to the discussion in a useful, constructive and objective manner. 

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

I didn't say funk about you trivialising it or some how making it a non issue by using it in this context. Do not think I am acting like a 'SJW', my argument actually has nothing to do with rape itself. Do not attempt to belittle me by trying to change the argument I am making that again tries to fit in your narrative of the election. 

 

It is solely about usage of emotive language in an enviroment where it has very little place. Your use of the langauge is designed specifically to make the readers think a specific set of feelings towards the issue. But if the issue actually mattered like that, you should be able to show the exact same thing with more objective language. If your issue is that China is unfair towards to the US, and that needs to change - You write just that. That China is being unfair, you then list why China is being unfair, you propose alternatives that would change this, and you then open it up to the rest of us. 

 

Writing 'China is raping the US' and nothing else does absolutely nothing to further the discussion. You did not highlight any issues, or create any points of discussion. You just said something emotional that only serves to make us say 'That's outrageous' or 'that's bollocks'. If you don't want me to comment on this sort of sheet, do better and actually contribute to the discussion in a useful, constructive and objective manner. 

Well they're do a simple manipulation of wage to lower the national income and lowering the potential growth of C (Consumer spending). That pretty much starts a snow ball which allows them to maintain a huge trade surplus at our expense. Now it seems counter intuitive that they can both pump out massive quantity of product and keep wages low...well in America you can't disappear workers if they demanding higher wages 

 

I can explain the economics of how our Trade with China is toxic, but it's nothing other than an economic rape of america and it should incite emotion. 

 

I frankly don't care if you think I'm trivializing sexual rape, which a simple look into context would show I'm not. My intention and message still remains china is destroying american lives and matches up all the negative descriptors you used to describe rape

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

You actually are calling her "Miss Piggy", so you just outright insulted her and displayed support for the name. The accusation against her was almost twenty years ago, and did not result in a guilty verdict, while the trial against Trump has yet to reach any verdict. You cannot call Alicia Machado an accomplice to murder, since it was already decided that she was not. Since Trump does not have that same luxury as Machado, I do get to criticize him.

 

How many other interactions with Epstein have been linked to rape? I only hear this about Trump.

 

Several of us have posted stories that implicate only Trump, but then you argue that the source isn't credible, criticize Trump's victims instead of Trump himself, or take words out of context as if that proves Trump innocent. So we have done exactly as you ask, but that is when you move the goalposts. You just don't want to admit that there's a possibility that Trump alone is guilty, so you change the subject to Hillary. I understand that there are valid arguments against her, but those are not the arguments I was making.

 

Oh, Gawker sucks and did deserve to go down, but Peter Thiel only beat it because he had the money to do so, which means that the people running Gawker weren't properly put in a position where they could realize that everything that they had done was wrong.

 

How is us disagreeing with your belittlement of rape an example of this country's failure? It just means that we have little tolerance for people who take tragedies so lightly.

 

I do believe that you're defending Trump, since you immediately tried to discredit the defendant's position, rather than consider the possibility that Trump may be guilty. If you want a verdict, we still have until October 14th.

I put it in quotes to mock that name for a reason. I've yet to see proof of it being used, and I've already said I think it's shitty that people fat shamed her, let alone apparently called her miss piggy

 

No, but she pretty much admitted to it on like two shows and got caught lying about circumstances of her eating disorders, so there's plenty of room to think she's not being honest. When asked if you were implicate in those charges, the innocent person's resp is not "I had a history"

 

Rape allegations? Mainly Bill Clinton, but again just allegations, nothing in the lines of proof. 

 

Your stories implicate Trump yes, a piece on Trump's treatment of women isn't gonna be like "but here are all the times HRC and Bill treated women like trash to make an objective portrayal"

 

I don't care what this woman's history is, if she can prove that Trump called her those names, he's absolutely at fault, but she can't and she's being backpeddling pretty fast recently, so I'm skeptical. Howard stern called her fat and Trump laughed, that's about as close to "Miss Piggy" as anyone can prove

 

The problem Roxas, is you guys are more outraged that I dropped "sexual" from the definition of rape to describe China's attempt to ruin the US than the fact that China is ruining the US.

 

You're so caught up in your bubble of social justice, that you miss the bigger picture 

[Aerion Brightflame]

Well they're do a simple manipulation of wage to lower the national income and lowering the potential growth of C (Consumer spending). That pretty much starts a snow ball which allows them to maintain a huge trade surplus at our expense. Now it seems counter intuitive that they can both pump out massive quantity of product and keep wages low...well in America you can't disappear workers if they demanding higher wages 

 

I can explain the economics of how our Trade with China is toxic, but it's nothing other than an economic rape of america and it should incite emotion. 

Then explain it. Jesus Christ, do you not understand the point I am trying to argue?

 

The interesting part of this, of all this, of all issues we can possibly discuss are the details because the details are how we determine and discuss what policy is more effective. The emotional response that it 'should' incite is irrelevant because there's nothing to discuss about it. Either you think that response is right, or it's wrong. There's no middle ground, there's no back and forth, there's simply no substance to discuss. 

 

This is Debates, we should care about the f***ing details because there is no debate without them. If you understand the trade deals, you explain that and explain why you think that is a bad thing. Unless the argument itself is explicitly about emotions and morals, then they are the less interesting part of it. 

 

If you had just explained simply what the foundation of the existing trade deals are, why you think they a flawed and what you think could have been done about them in the first place I wouldn't need to waste time telling you this exact thing three f***ing times so you can understand the point I am trying to make. Your use of emotive language is needless, lazy and out of place, and I am asking you to do better for the sake of discussion. But you ignore this and focus on the idea that people 'have to feel' a certain thing towards this as opposed to discussing simply 'what can be done to address the issue, what are the candidates discussing about it, which candidate seems more likely to do these sorts of things'. You are just shorting out what discussion we could have because you insist on bringing the emotion into it and making the arguments personal.  

[Dad]

Bubble of social justice? You're so full of yourself, and it's obnoxious.

 

You seem to think that by applying your own definition suddenly everyone else is in the wrong. The only one playing the victim card and being a SJW is you.

 

China has been maiming the US for a while. Our trade agreements are disastrous, and it's costing us money. A lot of people are displeased, and at their wits end. Maybe you should get out and protest it. That would make you look like you have a sheet, instead of being a keyboard warrior.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4622348/tim-jordan-grills-director-comey

 

Reddit Testimony at congressional hearing today....

[vla1ne]

well, i'm not gonna jump in too far since i've got places to be, but first, i agree with bight that this is debates, and details matter. second though, there is nothing wrong with using emotional arguments if it will win you the point (within reason) using emotional arguments to shut down the opposing side is wrong, but if the emotional argument is to simply make a point better understood, then i see nothing wrong with it

 

(for example, if you make a point against a race, and i call you a racist without doing anything substantive, that's wrong, but if you make a point against a race, and i break your argument down, and then call you a racist, using the holes in your argument as proof, that's fair game. not jumping in, just leaving that before i leave.)

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Bubble of social justice? You're so full of yourself, and it's obnoxious.

 

You seem to think that by applying your own definition suddenly everyone else is in the wrong. The only one playing the victim card and being a SJW is you.

 

China has been maiming the US for a while. Our trade agreements are disastrous, and it's costing us money. A lot of people are displeased, and at their wits end. Maybe you should get out and protest it. That would make you look like you have a sheet, instead of being a keyboard warrior.

I have protested it, that's why I did my part in getting someone running who is against it instead of letting Kasich and Cruz and other pro-TPP people win the nomination

 

Why didn't you guys do more to get Bernie elected is the real question.

 

Well I'm not a victim, I had the luxury of being born into a wealthy family and I get to sit at a university learning about Quantum states while some poor bloke in Wisconsin is wondering why he has to sell more cheese for less money every year

 

You guys are absolutely in a bubble of social justice if the biggest problem with this race is he said she said over "miss piggy" or that fact that I maybe too liberally use the word rape to describe the economic shafting going on here

[Aerion Brightflame]

We did not say that it's the biggest problem with the race.  Well not that I've seen, if I it was said that was probably reallybad hyperbole and should be frowned upon. 

 

I did not say that your use of rape was liberal, or that it was even a problem in the race. I will happily state right now that your general attitude and approach to discussion is the biggest issue in the section but that's a discussion for another thread. 

 

So please, don't deflect to try and minimise the points we are raising. It's lazy. 

[Sunshine Jesse]

Impulsive Baffoon? You seem to have a really low opinion of 42% of the country if you think he's a Baffoon who's able to Rick roll them all

There are dozens of reasons people vote for Trump. You don't have to be smart to appeal to the American people.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

There are dozens of reasons people vote for Trump. You don't have to be smart to appeal to the American people.

I'm genuinely curious, don't you realize this type of "holier than thou" condescension is what created Trump? His ideas on Geopolitics and Economics be damned, he wouldn't have gotten as far as he did without this kinda rhetoric 

[Sunshine Jesse]

I'm genuinely curious, don't you realize this type of "holier than thou" condescension is what created Trump? His ideas on Geopolitics and Economics be damned, he wouldn't have gotten as far as he did without this kinda rhetoric 

...I'm not being condescending, I'm stating an objective truth.

 

You don't have to be smarter than someone to get them to support you. There's nothing wrong with supporting someone less intelligent than you if they're fighting for something you agree with, or fighting against someone you disagree with.

 

And I'm pretty sure that Trump is far less intelligent than you are.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

We did not say that it's the biggest problem with the race.  Well not that I've seen, if I it was said that was probably reallybad hyperbole and should be frowned upon. 

 

I did not say that your use of rape was liberal, or that it was even a problem in the race. I will happily state right now that your general attitude and approach to discussion is the biggest issue in the section but that's a discussion for another thread. 

 

So please, don't deflect to try and minimise the points we are raising. It's lazy. 

Yeah, fair. Here I'll point it out.

 

So Y (GDP)=C+I+G+NX

 

NS(national savings)=Y-C-G=I+NX

 

To get the Forex Market (foreign exchange market) rearrange that to NS-I=NX

 

The the left side of the equation is the NS-I is the supply curve (it's vertical or positively slanted) and NX looks like the graph of Y=1/X

 

NX is inversely related to the exchange rate of currency. I'm lazy but below is a simple version of it (you can slant the supply curve if you want, but they lower the C by giving shitty wages, which drives NS up, and shifts the curve to create a lower exchange rate and a higher export. And this isn't even considering the monetary policy manipulation they do...they're no friends of ours

 

Oh also, dollar can buy more in China, so it also promotes you to go to China and spend your money...another added bonus, and we can't replicate it here because killing workers for not complying is frowned upon in the US

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

Okay can we take a moment to put this into perspective, Winter. You went at Roxas about loving to bring the rape thing up and then you went out of your way to quote a post about from several days ago to talk about it more?

And then you, twice, claim that they're being "triggered" by the word rape which I cannot understand where this comes from and it sounds like you're just trying to trivialize what is being said with "Hurr triggered"

Sorry for bringing this up since apparently it's moved past but I just felt like this was in poor taste.