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[RESULTS ARE FINAL] 2016 Election for President of the United States | Donald Trump Victory

cr47t

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Sunshine Jesse Newbie

Sunshine Jesse

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Posted

Trump blatantly lied multiple times and couldn't even* keep it together.

 

*not a lie, just a really stupid thing to say

 

Hell, Hillary even apologized and owned up to the emails. As empty as it may be (and boy howdy, do I think it was empty), owning up to it is still better than anything she's said regarding it before.

 

The only people who think Trump won (or even tied it up) are his supporters. He did nothing but appeal to his own base and did nothing to prove his doubters wrong.

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Ryusei the Morning Star Community Regular

Ryusei the Morning Star

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Except he didn't saying "I guess so" =/ = passionately voting for it after getting classified intel

 

And the sean hannity thing was fact checked to be true.

 

 

He did say GB was a Chinese hoax, but he backed down on that pretty fast, so the more truthful thing to say was that it's not his current position

 

Nope, him minimizing on his taxes, and finishing projects under time, under budget is a good thing

 

Clinton didn't interrupt him as much, but if you watch, you notice that Lester interrupted Trump a lot more than he did HRC

 

No Jesse, not only people who support him say he won. 


He could have easily done better though

 

"Donald Trump thinks women deserve to make less than men if they don't do as good of a job."

 

Stupidest Hillary attack yet

 

God help us

 

of the four candidates running for president...
Only Hillary Clinton was caught lying to congress.
Only Hillary Clinton was fired from a job for being unethical.
Only Hillary Clinton deleted 30 some thousand emails after she was ordered to hand them over to the Fed.
Only Hillary Clinton had that same computer wiped clean by professionals.
Only Hillary Clinton got the rapist of a teenage girl off on rape charges then laughed about it.
Only Hillary Clinton lied to the American people about Benghazi.
Only Hillary Clinton lied to the American people about her emails.
Only Hillary Clinton lied about being under sniper fire.
Only Hillary Clinton lied about lying to the American people.
Only Hillary Clinton was involved in " Cash Cow "
Only Hillary Clinton has a long list of scandals.
Only Hillary Clinton nationally belittled her husband's sexual harassment ( and rape ) accusers.
Only Hillary Clinton is a career politician.
Only Hillary Clinton will not release her speeches to Goldman Sachs and other banks.
Only Hillary Clinton is tied to Monsanto.
Only Hillary Clinton was labeled " Extremely careless " about national security by the FBI !
Only Hillary Clinton said she will raise taxes on the middle class.
Only Hillary Clinton benefited from the DNC rigging an election !
Only Hillary Clinton had to return stolen items from the White House.
Only Hillary Clinton said the Benghazi victims parents where lying.
Only Hillary Clinton wants you to vote for her based on her gender.
Only Hillary Clinton has no real accomplishments after a lifetime in politics.
Only Hillary Clinton has never created any jobs.
Only Hillary Clinton has been investigated by the FBI and found to have put national security at risk.
Only Hillary Clinton has had two or more movies and several documentaries made about her questionable ethics.
Only Hillary Clinton was called "Broomstick one" by the SS.
Only Hillary Clinton made congress and others spend millions and millions of tax dollars having hearings and investigating her to find that she lied, that would not have been spent if she would of simply told the truth in the first place ! Fact - all facts !
Only Hillary Clinton regularly cussed out and belittled her SS detail.
Only Hillary Clinton Only Hillary Clinton Only Hillary Clinton over and over again.
But you are going to vote for her because.... you don't like Donald Trump ? That is insane !
I will never understand how any moral person in good conscience could vote for this woman.
(This is just a small percentage of a much longer list)
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Sunshine Jesse Newbie

Sunshine Jesse

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Except he didn't saying "I guess so" =/ = passionately voting for it after getting classified intel

 

And the sean hannity thing was fact checked to be true.

 

 

He did say GB was a Chinese hoax, but he backed down on that pretty fast, so the more truthful thing to say was that it's not his current position

 

Nope, him minimizing on his taxes, and finishing projects under time, under budget is a good thing

 

Clinton didn't interrupt him as much, but if you watch, you notice that Lester interrupted Trump a lot more than he did HRC

 

No Jesse, not only people who support him say he won. 

He could have easily done better though

None of that is the point.

 

The point is that he lied, outright, when people claim he's honest. What's worse, he lied on things people have widespread, recorded public knowledge on. At least Hillary has the sense to try to spin her lies or lie about things people don't know about. Trump doesn't even have that. All he has is a "nope, I didn't say that" when we know he did.

 

My argument isn't that Hillary doesn't lie. It's that she shows some measure of intelligence in her lies when Trump doesn't even do that. I'd rather have a smart liar than a brazen, stupid one.

 

And as far as taxing goes? It doesn't matter whether it's morally right or wrong. No, what he said shows the exact same disconnect with his voting base that people accuse Hillary of showing. He's a big-time business man who cannot see himself on the same level as the common man, or even hold himself to the same standards. That's the point I'm making. He is absolutely not for the people in any way, and is in fact completely unable to relate to them.

 

And yes, Lester was pretty bad, but it was his job to interrupt them. It's not Lester's fault that Trump couldn't shut the f*** up when told to. He even pulled the "I would've said x but I'm a good person" bullshit towards the end. What the f***? He was a petulant, immature child throughout this whole thing, and didn't even have the sense to nail Hillary further on some of her controversies. Not only was he a child, but he was a stupid child!

 

Stop deflecting things back to Hillary. I know she betrayed you. I know you're hurt by her, because you placed your trust in her and her true colors came out. I know she's a piece of s***. But there is no argument to be had that Trump, own his own merits, is that much better.

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vla1ne Newbie

vla1ne

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Trump blatantly lied multiple times and couldn't even* keep it together.

 

*not a lie, just a really stupid thing to say

 

Hell, Hillary even apologized and owned up to the emails. As empty as it may be (and boy howdy, I think it was empty), owning up to it is still better than anything she's said regarding it before.

 

The only people who think Trump won (or even tied it up) are his supporters. He did nothing but appeal to his own base and did nothing to prove his doubters wrong.

dude, the vox link, honestly, that's such a joke that i can't believe he would have actually meant it as anything serious. he might not believe in global warming, but for him to 100% believe it was a chinese hoax? he honestly deserves benefit of the doubt here. it's more swedish fish than actual slam.

 

 

the tax return is a half bullshit question anyways. the public isn't owed s*** as far as taxes, that's his money, we only care because we're nosy as hell. now, before continuing, i will concede that knowing if he's broke or not is definitely a strong argument, and we would definitely get valuable info from his returns about his status but youtube, arguably the most successful video site in the world. barely breaks even, yet could be sold for god-tier profits were google so inclined. in that same manner, trump, while possibly not as rich as he claims, does indeed have multiple businesses and properties that more than vouch for his wealth and success. releasing tax returns is only interesting to me for one reason, to see if he's as charitable as he claims, and really, that's a swedish fish, the drill should be focused on his polices, not his pockets. it was a damn good shot, but it holds literally no importance as far as potential for president. we all know he holds back money, he's rich,has access to good tax breaks, probably has really good lawyers, and his property holds insane value, that's standard fare, in fact, the fact that he's been audited yearly is pretty much an admission that he's avoiding paying his full share. hillary is much the same, (aside from potential jailtime and potential treason) her emails are a nonissue at this point, the only thing we'd get out of them, is the true extent of how badly she messed up at that time. we're already past that. on the other hand, her policies are what should be focused on, which is why the 30 years attack was the most potent weapon trump had, and why he should have been pressed on his own policies. 

 

 

the politico link calls him out but uses interesting wording, they are right to say he wasn't against the war, but what they neglect telling you is that he also called the ending to that particular chapter before it actually happened in the last article they use to debunk him. so yeah, he was wrong in his assertion, but he was also right in his assertion. he say's: C'mon. Two minutes after we leave, there's going to be a revolution, and the meanest, toughest, smartest, most vicious guy will take over. And he'll have weapons of mass destruction, which Saddam didn't have. (they don't have WMD, but not for lack of trying, and they did manage to get the base materials before getting them ripped out of their hands)

 

before that, he again, needs to be drilled for specifics though. he claims he'd handle it differently, but never says how he'd have done it.

 

 

as for the last article, he's not wrong to say it makes him smart. you can be wrong, but correct at the same time. this was one of those times. as far as business goes, not paying the taxes where you can get away with it (legally) is indeed the smartest thing you can do. the problem is, as head of state, you can't skimp in the same areas. so is he smart? yes, is he leader smart? depends on whether or not he'd do the same as president with the budget, and to what extent. business mind is different from leader mind in many areas, but we've seen how the leader mind handles money (20 trillion in debt) is the business mind such a risk at this point? whether it'd be "squandered" is arguable, i mean, that trillion's not here due to smart spending and good compromise, so claiming it was squandered is not too far off.

 

 

overall, he lied, but one lie's a literal joke, one's a swedish fish, and while the third's spot on, it links to a discussion where he does call the direction of the war correctly. (would you take ISIS, or sadam?) the last is a nitpick that vacuums the quote, and applies no other context (there was no concrete context given, but under the direction of said conversation, he wasn't wrong on that particular line.

 

EDIT: who claims he's honest? those people do deserve to be laughed at. more honest than hillary? yes, but honest? hell no.

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vla1ne Newbie

vla1ne

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I am pretty sure you are using the phrase "red herring" 100% wrong. If you aren't, and are implying that Trump made it up as an attempt to mislead listeners... that is even worse.

ah, you're right, it's late, and i'm in a bit of body pain atm from 12 hour shifts. forgive me for using the wrong word.

*to all readers*please replace all uses of "it's a red herring" with "swedish fish".

 

aside from that though, i stand by my statement. also, missed the last link... really though, we all saw that coming. trump's that type of person, and i'm legit surprised he didn't cut in more. not that it makes him look good, but it's not something that should be a surprise. trump's largest weakness is that he can't control himself, and what surprised me the most was that hillary didn't use that weapon against him properly throughout the entire debate. i mean, she calls him on it what? once? geez, you could destroy him using his own interruptions, and make a solid argument for somebody that intrusive not being cut out for delicate relations.

 

[spoiler=also, irrelevant, but funny]

[spoiler=backing for this particular claim]

tis a joke.

 

 

 

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Wizarus Newbie

Wizarus

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Posted

A very weird debate to watch. I will say Trump started off really strong. He pretty much took control, mainly because of how atrocious this moderator was, and in part because Hillary lost her composure. Then we got to race issues, and from that point on, he completely dropped the ball(kinda expected but still), and let Hillary recover. He was at his lowest during his temperament rant, and he fell into a trap when he talked about presidental look/stamina.

 

Wasn't really an impressive debate from Clinton TBH, she didn't really win tonight Trump just kept screwing up. The only time she really caught him off guard was with the "Ms. Housekeeping" bit.

 

Again this moderator was terrible. Completely lost control of the debate, got bullied repeatedly, had no crowd control at all, and didn't follow up on important moments like Trump admitting to tax evasion. 

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Aerion Brightflame Newbie

Aerion Brightflame

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Trump should have attacked her about the Wall Street speeches instead of the deleted emails. He has more of a leg to stand on there because if Hillary got aggressive about his tax returns he just points out Hillary made the same evasions and still hasn't released the speeches. The speeches would also probably be more damaging than the emails. Also an interesting point - There isn't actually any proof beyond Trump's word that his returns are under audit. His lawyers claimed they were under consitent review, not audit. Which undermines the argument 'Oh if there's any dirt why haven't the IRS found it?' Even if he is under audit, that doesn't work as an excuse to not release them, because there's nothing stopping audited returns from being made public. 

 

I also wish that Hillary had been more aggressive about calling Trump a shitty businessman. It's an area that he can't really defend, given he got a 1 million dollar loan, his dad's rolledex, his dad's co-signatures on all his initial business deals, about $80 million in government subsidies, a massive amount of inheritance from his father, and by most people's reckoning he'd actually have more money now if he'd just stuck it in an account and reinvested the interest. It would force him on the defensive on a point he can't really defend, which would make him petty and personal, so Hillary can then just go 'Look what happens when someone criticises the man, do you think he could actually work in delicate negotiations?'

 

Still whatever, not as fun an evening as I was hoping. But I was expected Trump to just call her a b**** so 

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Ryusei the Morning Star Community Regular

Ryusei the Morning Star

Posted
Posted

Gravis Poll

 

Two percent of voters, previously undecided, switched to Trump after the debate. No undecideds went to Clinton. One percent switched from Trump to Clinton, and one percent switched from Clinton to Trump.

 

“Trump won on the most critical factor, on whether Clinton or Trump was more ‘plausible’ as president, 46 percent to her 42 percent,” he said.

 

 

48% say HRC won

45% say Trump won

 

Millenials still don't like her, Women still hate him

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Ryusei the Morning Star Community Regular

Ryusei the Morning Star

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i0u3pporc1ox.png

 

Democratic nominee for president Hillary Clinton edged her GOP rival Donald Trump in Monday’s presidential held at Hofstra University before a television audience estimated at 100 million viewers, according to a Gravis “flash poll” conducted minutes after the debate ended.
Pat Caddell, the Democratic pollster and Fox News Insider, told Breitbart News that poll respondents said Clinton performed better at the debate; 48 percent said Clinton did a better job, compared to 43 percent, who said Trump did the better job.
“However, 95 percent of the people we contacted told us they were not going to change their vote based on the debate,” Caddell said.
Two percent of voters, previously undecided, switched to Trump after the debate. No undecideds went to Clinton. One percent switched from Trump to Clinton, and one percent switched from Clinton to Trump.
“Trump won on the most critical factor, on whether Clinton or Trump was more ‘plausible’ as president, 46 percent to her 42 percent,” he said.
“That for him is really what this debate was really about,” he said.
Participants said they thought Clinton had a better grasp of the issues, by 48 percent to his 40 percent.
“What really happened was she won on the issues and he won on plausibility,” Caddell said.
“I was really surprised by this–because it is usually a question that plays well with Democrats–‘Who showed that they care about people like you?’ Trump won that 49 percent to 44 percent for her,” he said.
In other questions, 49 percent said Trump was more honest and 42 percent said Clinton was more honest.
Forty-eight percent of respondents said in the debate Trump showed he would be a strong leader, compared with 44 percent for Clinton.
“With regards to expectations, 26 percent said Trump did better than they expected,” he said.
“Clinton clearly did better than expected with 46 percent telling us that and only 20 percent telling us she did worse,” he said. “The point is that despite that, Trump actually benefited from the debate tonight.”
Nobody knows more about the history of presidential debates or presidential debate polls than he does, he said.
“Trump, as the challenger in this race, has a so-s0 performance against Clinton, but he gained what he needed,” he said.
“Like most debates, this debate did not shift the race. What it did do was show Trump as plausible, as a strong leader and more importantly that he cares about people,” he said. “Trump really helped himself out tonight.”
 
Caddell said he was very happy with the Gravis sample. “I am proud that we used a serious sample, unlike other outlets that were heavily skewed.”
 
Doug Kaplan, the managing partner of Gravis Marketing, the Florida-based polling firm that executed the poll, said, “Before the debate, we contacted 3,000 registered voters and 1,700 of them agreed to be part of our poll sample, we did not stop dialing until we reached 890 of them to ensure we had a strong sample.” The poll carries a 3.3 percent margin of error with a 95 percent level of confidence.
The poll was executed with automated phone calls with results weighted to match a proprietary turnout model.
 
D+5 sample, so about what the nation should be like
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Aerion Brightflame Newbie

Aerion Brightflame

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Did Trump actually admit to tax avoidance in this? I've been hearing this said around in that he made a boast about out-smarting the tax man and thus not paying income tax? Because that should be sending alarm bells. 

 

Trump being asked more exclusive questions isn't that shocking. Hillary has experience in political fields, people can get a feel for her politics just by looking at her voting records. Trump has to cover more questions because he has far more to prove about himself as a politician. Additionally, being given more questions to cover policy (Which he should work into basically every question because you are an idiot if you don't push policy in a televised debate to some extent) should be a good thing if your policy is strong. It's only an issue if you are weak on policy but good on rhetoric. 

 

The only loaded questions really are 14 and I guess 3? (Because 3 is an attempt to nail Trump over Russia which should be a very direct question instead of what he did). Otherwise they are things that were either worth discussing, or sheet he should be able to talk out of and come off as strong on. Like the 'stop and frisk' is always going to have racist connotations so he has to be able to work through them. 

 

I agree that Hillary should have gotten more questions... Probably on DWS and the issues of the wall street transcripts. But for an event where Trump would always have more work to do, it wasn't that extreme. Like they didn't do easy sheet like the Trump Foundation stuff and ripping apart Trump's claims of being a self made man so

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Aerion Brightflame Newbie

Aerion Brightflame

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Posted

 

There is no way in hell that's real right? I know that Trump says a lot of insane things, but that has to be something that's been mis-attributed to him or something. 

 

Like I am all for him standing for more fair debates but the specific examples he's giving are insane. Because he's not asking for a debate he's asking for a town hall essentially. Or two simultaneous but unrelated press statements. 

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Phantom Roxas Enthusiast

Phantom Roxas

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Did Trump actually admit to tax avoidance in this? I've been hearing this said around in that he made a boast about out-smarting the tax man and thus not paying income tax? Because that should be sending alarm bells.

 

From what I understand (Didn't actually watch the debate), he doesn't explicitly admit to tax evasion, but he did make a particular boast along those lines.

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Ryusei the Morning Star Community Regular

Ryusei the Morning Star

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It's not evasion if it's legal. My parents got divorced for a bit becuase they could save more on taxes before I was born. Is that evasion? Or just clever money management.

 

If you want to see "pathetic" look at Bernie or Cruz supporting HRC or Trump respectively

Trump stupidly praised the mod, HRC didn't praise Matt Lauer ... I don't like beta Cuck Trump...would have voted for Rubio or Bernie if I wanted a coward

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Aerion Brightflame Newbie

Aerion Brightflame

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So when someone rich avoids paying tax in a legal fashion it's okay because 'they've earned it by exploiting the system', but if someone poor legally abuses the system to get benefits say they are a scoundrel? The answer should be no, neither situation is fair to those who actually abide by the intention of the system - I.E. you pay the government a fair share of tax and you don't abuse the system. It's actually worse in case of the rich because they would be contributing more than the poor man is taking. 

 

It's not really a matter of legality as much as it is one of ethics. It is not ethical for the president of the United states to not be paying his fair share of taxes, and certainty not to brag about it.

 

The money management argument to me is a double-standard that shouldn't exist. Especially for the rich because when you earn that much you can actually afford to pay your goddam taxes without impacting QoL. 

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