[RESULTS ARE FINAL] 2016 Election for President of the United States | Donald Trump Victory

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

What are the contact points Goose? 

 

"unless the Parties agree on a different period"

 

That's the problem. The other parties can keep stretching the time effectively locking you in

[cr47t]

People who want to take the power away from the people and give it to the corporations? This is one of the many reasons you should actively vote Trump just to deny Hillary the WH.

 

Look at Brexit dude, look at NAFTA. The corps are losing support on the left and right, how better to fix that then give a locked in scenario 

Well... does TPP have to go through Congress in order to get to the WH, or does it go straight to the Oval Office?

 

My hope is that enough people in Congress can refuse to vote on TPP that it gets shut down.

[Goose]

What are the contact points Goose? 

 

"unless the Parties agree on a different period"

 

That's the problem. The other parties can keep stretching the time effectively locking you in

 

That's wrong.  You would need to agree as well.  The point of this is to allow you to withdraw faster or slower as needed to make it smooth, but only if everyone agrees keeping it smooth for them too.  They can't unilaterally keep you in.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Article 27.3: Decision-Making 1. The Commission and all subsidiary bodies established under this Agreement shall take all decisions by consensus, except as otherwise provided in this Agreement, or as otherwise decided by the Parties. 2 Except as otherwise provided in this Agreement, the Commission or any subsidiary body shall be deemed to have taken a decision by consensus if no Party present at any meeting when a decision is taken objects to the proposed decision. 2. For the purposes of Article 27.2.2(f) (Functions of the Commission), a decision of the Commission shall be taken by agreement of all Parties. A decision shall be deemed to be reached if a Party which does not indicate agreement when the Commission considers the issue does not object in writing to the interpretation considered by the Commission within five days of that consideration

 

They can make your life hell if you want to leave. It's not a cut or dry process like NAFTA would be. 27 is full of intricacies that complicate the matter and effectively lock you in. 

 

Deadlock for 5 days and have a majority deny exit 

[Aerion Brightflame]

Speaking of MW, it's intriguing to see Trump cave and offer a MW of 10 Dollars at the minimum. It'll be intriguing to see if he goes up to 15 by the end

 

Well the idea Tom is, going to STEM fields, or law, or Medicine tends to be far more expensive and debt-crushing in the long run. By incentives people looking to go in that area, yes you would have more competition. But that's a good thing cause people really want to push those fields at the moment. 

As for the lack of blue collar workers, those jobs are going away. The Wall and infrastructure can keep the steel and other blue-collar alive for a while, but in the future those will be mechanized. We really shouldn't be encouraging our generation to go into blue collar or useless professions like a Art Degree 

 

That doesn't exactly help people with the issue of student debt. They'll still have gigantic loans to pay off and be somewhat crippled financially speaking for several decades. It's a weird solution that just tries to undermine the importance of culture in long term society. You don't want to force the people away from the arts, you should just enable ways to access the arts without needing a degree. 

 

If you agree with me that those jobs are going to be mechanised, what's the plan to deal with the impending jobs crisis? It's a frankly huge issue. 

 

The only solution I see is UBI, but that has it's fare share of opposition due to people being terrified of 'hand-outs'

[Goose]

Article 27.3: Decision-Making 1. The Commission and all subsidiary bodies established under this Agreement shall take all decisions by consensus, except as otherwise provided in this Agreement, or as otherwise decided by the Parties. 2 Except as otherwise provided in this Agreement, the Commission or any subsidiary body shall be deemed to have taken a decision by consensus if no Party present at any meeting when a decision is taken objects to the proposed decision. 2. For the purposes of Article 27.2.2(f) (Functions of the Commission), a decision of the Commission shall be taken by agreement of all Parties. A decision shall be deemed to be reached if a Party which does not indicate agreement when the Commission considers the issue does not object in writing to the interpretation considered by the Commission within five days of that consideration

 

You're still misinterpreting that. It still requires everyone to agree.  It always requires everyone to agree unless everyone agrees that they don't need an agreement of everyone which isn't present in the case of them leaving.  Your highlighted part is just highlighting the fact that ALL parties need to agree 

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

You're still misinterpreting that. It still requires everyone to agree.  It always requires everyone to agree unless everyone agrees that they don't need an agreement of everyone which isn't present in the case of them leaving.  Your highlighted part is just highlighting the fact that ALL parties need to agree 

Consensus means general agreement though. If they wanted it to be unanimous, they would have used NATO security council wording. 

 

And how would a consensus be reached if 1 country wants the leave and the others don't want it to? Even if consensus means majority that's not an easy task

That doesn't exactly help people with the issue of student debt. They'll still have gigantic loans to pay off and be somewhat crippled financially speaking for several decades. It's a weird solution that just tries to undermine the importance of culture in long term society. You don't want to force the people away from the arts, you should just enable ways to access the arts without needing a degree. 

 

If you agree with me that those jobs are going to be mechanised, what's the plan to deal with the impending jobs crisis? It's a frankly huge issue. 

 

The only solution I see is UBI, but that has it's fare share of opposition due to people being terrified of 'hand-outs'

Well it would help pay off debt if you're going into the more desirable fields. Art and writing major just don't give the same reward and it's a honey trap veiled by the guise of "culture"

 

Well the plan is the current working force (ages 40-50) can't be easily re-trained to new jobs. The government spending combined with the multiplier effect should keep them secure. Our generation will need to move to more non-blue collar jobs

[Dad]

Well it would help pay off debt if you're going into the more desirable fields. Art and writing major just don't give the same reward and it's a honey trap veiled by the guise of "culture"

 

I get that we should be looking to work for bigger paying jobs, but why am I being punished for pursuing something I'm passionate or really interested in?  There are a number of writers who have really blossomed with their majors.  It may have taken some time to pay those loans off, but saying their major is because "your career path is sheet" is really subjective.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

I get that we should be looking to work for bigger paying jobs, but why am I being punished for pursuing something I'm passionate or really interested in?  There are a number of writers who have really blossomed with their majors.  It may have taken some time to pay those loans off, but saying their major is because "your career path is sheet" is really subjective.

You're not being punished. You're just not being rewarded. If you go into those fields you're likely not going to be able to contribute to our economy, so it's not hard to see why the gov wants to push you towards a more robust occupation

 

 

This map is funny. Nate Silver is a very accurate election pollster, but with this map, Trump wins. Yet he's behind in the chances of winning by a small margin. It's confusing, but it's refreshing to see that our country has a chance afterall

http://24newsflash.com/breaking-nato-commander-stuns-media-vindicates-trump-with-1-sentence/

 

Take this with a grain of salt

[Aerion Brightflame]

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/article92919217.html

 

I do love how the GOP spent 8 years b****ing about Obama not being strong enough with Russia, and then there candidate  is the one who is entirely on board with Russia's illegal annexation of an Ukrainian territory. (Bottom most segment) He talks about 'building better relations with Moscow, but that shouldn't come at the cost of condoning an imperialistic expansionist regime. It does make sense when a large portion of his business portfolio's rely on Russian money however. 

 

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/289907-trump-incorrectly-says-russia-isnt-in-ukraine

 

He even tries to deny that Russia is in the Ukraine, and then when corrected on that, as usual shifts the blame to Obama, and makes a vague promise that he will do better. 

 

It's just amusing. Also there's the whole debate about the father of a US Captain whom Trump has been insulting a lot under the defence of 'He did it first' 

 

EDIT: Also worth considering on Russia-Trump links:

 

Trump’s foreign policy advisor is Carter Page, a man whose entire professional career has revolved around investments in Russia and who has deep and continuing financial and employment ties to Gazprom, which, in turn, is part of Putin’s financial empire.

Trump’s campaign manager and top advisor is Paul Manafort (you see him a lot in TV lately), he spent most of the last decade as top campaign and communications advisor to Viktor Yanukovych, the pro-Russian Ukrainian Prime Minister and then President whose ouster in 2014 led to the on-going crisis and proxy war in Ukraine. Yanukovych was and remains a close ally of Putin.

 

Yeah... I think the US will give a lot away to Russia under Trump. As in Russia-US relationships will become like the US and the UK under Blair and Bush. Where Putin is Bush, and Trump is Blair. 

[Aerion Brightflame]

http://nymag.com/thecut/2016/07/mike-pence-says-roe-v-wade-will-be-overturned.html

 

Sorry to double post, but this is worth discussing given there was a pro life debate earlier in on the site. For reference Roe vs Wade (A case challenging the Texas abortion laws) was a supreme court decision that decided that Women's right to abortion lay within the right to privacy granted by the constitution and protected by the 14th ammendment. More specifically it defined that it was the woman's right entirely within the first trimester, and there are varying laws of the states right in the second and third trimesters. An reinforcing that it was the mothers choice until fetal viability. 

 

Whilst not massively versed in constitutional law, this case looks like the groundwork behind most modern abortion laws, and definately serves to limit how severe the anti-abortion laws can be in any given state. Removal of Roe vs Wade would allow states to just ban abortion again (30 states flat out banned abortion before this decision was made in the 70's). 

 

And overturning something like that ladies and gents is what Mr Mike Pence wants to do in office. 

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/article92919217.html

 

I do love how the GOP spent 8 years b****ing about Obama not being strong enough with Russia, and then there candidate  is the one who is entirely on board with Russia's illegal annexation of an Ukrainian territory. (Bottom most segment) He talks about 'building better relations with Moscow, but that shouldn't come at the cost of condoning an imperialistic expansionist regime. It does make sense when a large portion of his business portfolio's rely on Russian money however. 

 

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/289907-trump-incorrectly-says-russia-isnt-in-ukraine

 

He even tries to deny that Russia is in the Ukraine, and then when corrected on that, as usual shifts the blame to Obama, and makes a vague promise that he will do better. 

 

It's just amusing. Also there's the whole debate about the father of a US Captain whom Trump has been insulting a lot under the defence of 'He did it first' 

 

EDIT: Also worth considering on Russia-Trump links:

 

Trump’s foreign policy advisor is Carter Page, a man whose entire professional career has revolved around investments in Russia and who has deep and continuing financial and employment ties to Gazprom, which, in turn, is part of Putin’s financial empire.

Trump’s campaign manager and top advisor is Paul Manafort (you see him a lot in TV lately), he spent most of the last decade as top campaign and communications advisor to Viktor Yanukovych, the pro-Russian Ukrainian Prime Minister and then President whose ouster in 2014 led to the on-going crisis and proxy war in Ukraine. Yanukovych was and remains a close ally of Putin.

 

Yeah... I think the US will give a lot away to Russia under Trump. As in Russia-US relationships will become like the US and the UK under Blair and Bush. Where Putin is Bush, and Trump is Blair. 

Looks like it's my job to be the pushback

 

And I love how the democrats went from 

 

Trump Too Offensive To Work With Russia While Trump Is Working For Russia To Start War With Russia Because He Is Too Uninformed About International Relations To Know How To Deal With Russia And Has A Long History Of Dealings With Russia

 

Well not sheet Tom, Trump is the new republican party. Trumplicans voted him in BECAUSE we're fed up with the old order. An alliance with Russia is something we want and need. 

 

http://www.cnn.com/videos/tv/2016/07/31/sotu-sessions-russia.cnn

 

Former NSA CIA leader Hayden just said on live CBSN that if Trump could make cooperation work with Russia it would be a good thing. Of course they'll edit that out in the snippet they post. 

 

He also has no current holding in Russia. 

 

As for the father, you really misunderstood or had confirmation bias w/ the MSM. 

 

 

This is the problem. Radical Islam killed both those men. And Trump has elaborated on exactly what he means by a "Muslim" ban. Going after an unclassified statement shows how desperately y'all are grasping for straws. 

 

https://globalriskinfo.com/2016/07/31/an-open-letter-to-khizr-khan/

 

And if you MUST talk about the father, I suppose I'll have to shed some light on his life unlike the DNC

 

Khizr Muazzam Khan graduated in Punjab University Law College, as the New York Times confirms. and he specialized in International Trade Law in Saudi Arabia. An interest lawyer for Islamic oil companies Khan wrote a paper, called In Defense of OPEC to defend the Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC), an intergovernmental oil company consisting of mainly Islamic countries. Khan is a promoter of Islamic Sharia Law. Khan is also co-founder of the Journal of Contemporary Issues in Muslim Law (Islamic Sharia).

 

Regardless of how you feel about Crimea. They have multiple post re-referendum independent polls done. And all of them affirm that Crimea did want to leave. 

 

It's simple Tom. A (citizens wanting to leave)+B (impact of presence of Russian troops)=A (citizens wanting to leave)

 

What does this variable elimination tell us? The Russian presence did little to force Crimea out. It's also funny how nobody talks about Ukraine having a coup and deposing their elected leader. Something that sparked the need to leave for Crimea. #Convenince

 

 

http://nymag.com/thecut/2016/07/mike-pence-says-roe-v-wade-will-be-overturned.html

 

Sorry to double post, but this is worth discussing given there was a pro life debate earlier in on the site. For reference Roe vs Wade (A case challenging the Texas abortion laws) was a supreme court decision that decided that Women's right to abortion lay within the right to privacy granted by the constitution and protected by the 14th ammendment. More specifically it defined that it was the woman's right entirely within the first trimester, and there are varying laws of the states right in the second and third trimesters. An reinforcing that it was the mothers choice until fetal viability. 

 

Whilst not massively versed in constitutional law, this case looks like the groundwork behind most modern abortion laws, and definately serves to limit how severe the anti-abortion laws can be in any given state. Removal of Roe vs Wade would allow states to just ban abortion again (30 states flat out banned abortion before this decision was made in the 70's). 

 

And overturning something like that ladies and gents is what Mr Mike Pence wants to do in office. 

 

You do realize every republican ever has been talking about overturning Roe v Wade? Trump has very clearly said his three exception for abortions will stand. Not entirely sure what you're trying to achieve by posting a perhaps watered down version, of the MSM scare stories

 

Also hasn't this been discussed in the abortion thread? A lot?

 

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2016/07/30/russia_expert_stephen_cohen_trump_wants_to_stop_the_new_cold_war_but_the_america_media_just_doesnt_understand.html

 

More on Russia

[Aerion Brightflame]

My comment on the father wasn't about the initial attack or whatever, I have no idea what happened in that regard. However Trump did, after both sides had exchanged some words attempt to continue the argument under the pretence 'Well he attacked me, so I have every right to attack him back' which is you know child logic to hurl insults at someone because they insulted you. 

 

He may not having 'holdings' in Russia but a disproportionate portion of the money that flows through his business is Russian money, as his son testified too a few years ago. So he is not impartial to the Russians. Both he, and the two people who are mostly likely to advise him on the matter of Russia have direct personal benefit from a closer relation to Russia. Given that Russia (And Putin) has a frankly tiny approval rate amongst most American's that should be worrying to most. 

 

We've already talked about Crimea yes - We established that regardless of the intentions of the Crimean public Russia still moved unmarked troops and seized key locations over a fortnight before the vote for Crimean independence. The intentions of the Crimean people are irrelevant compared to the actions of Russia - If the people of Crimea did want to leave they had the democratic option to vote on that, they didn't need Russia troops crossing the border and opening fire. Sanctioning that approves of the actions of an expansionist superpower and spits on the US's current allies both of which are awful diplomatic moves. 

 

I don't get why you think that's not an issue, that Russia doing something that could have escalate to war should be treated with anything other than sactions and stuff? If Texas decided it wanted to leave the US say, and join Mexico, and Mexico moved troops over the US border several weeks before any kind of vote happened and started a firefight would you be okay with that? I doubt it. 

 

You just can't sanction the actions of an expansionist Imperialistic nation attempting to recreate the USSR over supporting allies whom you share far more common goals with. 

 

I have never challenged that the Crimea people wanted to leave, my issue is with the actions of Russia moving troops across the border and instigating conflict without any kind of consent or acknowledgement. 

 

And the Pence article is about the fact he talks about the removal of Roe vs Wade without any talk about another federal replacement being instituted. Nothing in the article, and nothing about the man implies he could be for any kind of abortion. And we are talking about he who holds the second highest office in the land, who you assume will talk very closely with Trump on these issues - If as you have said abortion is the 'big social issue' then having someone who is almost entirely pro life as the second highest in the land doesn't bode well.

 

At the very least it's a discordant message among the party. You got the VP being a hardass on Abortion and Trump not being especially for it on it in a society that is presumably becoming more and more pro choice. 

[Dad]

The source is sheet, but there should still be a reply.

 

http://bipartisanreport.com/2016/08/01/breaking-ny-times-exposes-trump-campaign-manager-for-being-on-russian-payroll-details/

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

I think I'm too vested in this election to keep a rational head in this thread. So gonna try not to post anymore here unless something really big happens

 

@Brightflame

 

The idea is, yes there were Russian forces when the referendum took place. But the argument could easily be made that Ukraine had a coup and the crimea citizens needed a moderating force in case the new Ukrainian gov tried something. 

 

Regardless, there have been multiple checks done post initial referendum (without Russian presence) and they affirm the initial result. 

 

Crimea wanted and still wants to leave. Accept it. It's called democracy.

 

As for pence, yes, he's different than Trump. As I've said he was a political choice, think JFK and LBJ. They're not meant to be buddies, and Trump is the one running the show.

 

@Dad That's not exactly new information. And who cares tbh. The Russians didn't write the emails did they?

[Dad]

 

@Dad That's not exactly new information. And who cares tbh. The Russians didn't write the emails did they?

 

The fact that we're willing to give the Russians any leeway with interference in our own country is stupid.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

The fact that we're willing to give the Russians any leeway with interference in our own country is stupid.

It's not that. The FBI failed us. If anyone can find the 30K emails that were deleted. And prove that Hillary lied about them all being personal. Then kudos to them. Ignorance isn't a virtue, and we don't need a liar on top of a crook as president

 

I don't care who find the 30k and releases it. But it should be done. 

 

Tim Kaine comes out against Hillary w/ regards to the Hyde Amendment, so atleast this day isn't all trash

 

Gary Johnson would support TPP, all the more reason not to vote for him

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

[cr47t]

Wait, where's Stein?

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Wait, where's Stein?

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

Not Polling high enough probs

[cr47t]

Also stance on TPP is missing form the chart :P

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Also stance on TPP is missing form the chart :P

Against For For

 

Cut me some slack, getting unbais information is hard these days. 

[cr47t]

Against For For

 

Cut me some slack, getting unbais information is hard these days. 

Alright.

 

Can I put this on the original post?

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Of course

[Aerion Brightflame]

Did they have to choose the photo that looked most like Clinton's face was a badly attached mask? Trump looks so smug he's punchable, and Johnson looks like he is judging every life choice ever made by you and has come up disappointed. 

 

Why do all the candidates have to have different good things and different awful things? In such variations that none of them actually stand out as great? It's very irritating that there can't be a consensus on some of the bigger issues.