millennials

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/07/health/millennials-conservative-generations/index.html

 

Don't lie, nobody saw this coming

[Aerion Brightflame]

A heavily right shifted country in a period of economic hardship that has had a Democratic government not really address there issues and an overall rise in nationalism/xenophobia in the wake of 9/11? I'm not that shocked that you are seeing a more polarised generation because America is more polarised than it has been in a very long time. 

 

I would love to see more data comparing these figures to s*** like family income, and how peoples views shift as they leave college. Because I will take a bet that poorer and less educated families have become more conservative, and that the numbers of them have increased. 

 

Hell if you read to the end of that article it covers it quite accurately - There was a blip at the start of the data considered that lead to a below expected number of Republicans (As I'm sure was the case post Bush because the article talks about it) that distorts the data - Overall the population distribution is the same or slightly liberalised. 

 

The main thing to take from the article isn't that Millennials are more conservative (Because that's a misrepresentation of the data, but I guess they are more conservative on economic issues that people give credit for), it's that America is more polarised and independent numbers are increasing. Which highlight the issues of representation.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

American Millennials actually are left on certain social issues, like Gay Rights, but we're actually more conservative on Abortion for example, not a clean Econ/Social split like you seemed to imply

 

We're also economically left on issues like healthcare and wage increases. 

 

Although young voters are overwhelmingly liberal on social issues such as same-sex marriage and drug legalization, research released Thursday suggests the opposite is true when it comes to abortion.

 

Polling and research conducted by the Institute for Pro-Life Advancement, an initiative of Students for Life of America, found that the majority of millennials support increasing restrictions on abortion even if many of them do not identify as “pro-life.”

 

The survey found that 53 percent of millennials believe abortion should be illegal in all or most circumstances, with 17 percent saying abortion should never be legal and 36 percent saying it should be legal only in extreme cases such as rape or incest or when the life of the mother is at risk.

 

You always say that America is rightshifted Tom, have you ever considered that Europe is just left shifted?

 

Edit

 

I think you will also see a split between majors in college. Like STEM or economics (leaning more right) vs something like creative writing (left)

[Aerion Brightflame]

Europe is left shifted compared to America yes. I say America is right shifted because compared to my political norm, and the political norms of most of the nations surrounding me it is far to the right. I'm not calling it right shifted because of some magical objective moderate scale, but because it is simply right shifted to what I consider normal. Britain is fairly moderate as things stand, or at least we aren't as left as say the Netherlands or Scandinavia can be. 

 

Healthcare and the minimum wage fall under social issues to me, not economic ones. I know that sounds contraditory because they are massive economic matters, but providing for and supporting  the vulnerable in society is the metric by which a society should be judged by and hence it's not a matter of making it works around the economics, the economics should be made to work around it. 

 

The American stance on abortion is just weird. My only thought is because of the general rise in Religiousness that occurred in and following the Cold War but I have no idea why it is such a big thing when other social issues aren't. I digress though because this isn't the abortion thread.  

 

Also that study has to give data on it's polling because that doesn't seem like a wholly impartial organisation. I know it's bad to do that about a source, but it would support its' whole purpose to find such a result. 

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Europe is left shifted compared to America yes. I say America is right shifted because compared to my political norm, and the political norms of most of the nations surrounding me it is far to the right. I'm not calling it right shifted because of some magical objective moderate scale, but because it is simply right shifted to what I consider normal. Britain is fairly moderate as things stand, or at least we aren't as left as say the Netherlands or Scandinavia can be. 

 

Healthcare and the minimum wage fall under social issues to me, not economic ones. I know that sounds contraditory because they are massive economic matters, but providing for and supporting  the vulnerable in society is the metric by which a society should be judged by and hence it's not a matter of making it works around the economics, the economics should be made to work around it. 

 

The American stance on abortion is just weird. My only thought is because of the general rise in Religiousness that occurred in and following the Cold War but I have no idea why it is such a big thing when other social issues aren't. I digress though because this isn't the abortion thread.  

 

Also that study has to give data on it's polling because that doesn't seem like a wholly impartial organisation. I know it's bad to do that about a source, but it would support its' whole purpose to find such a result. 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2015/03/23/abortion-generation-demographics-choice-life-column/24900705/

 

It's actually attributed to the growing population of Latinos and Asians that who are more strict on what constitutes acceptable abortion relative to whites, and especially blacks

 

Atheism and Agnosticism is rising in our generation, it's not a religious thing. It's just, "I had sex, I messed up by not buying a condom, is it really right for me to murder a child to cover my mistakes" 

[Aerion Brightflame]

Aren't Latino's (And minorities in the US) generally more religious historically than whites though? Society might be growing more aethistic, but if increasing numbers of people still coming from heavily Christian families (With an emphasis on family) and from historically poorer families (This is a massive generalisation but I make an assumption that the rising number of Latino households are on the lower income side of things) they are more likely to have anti-abortion viewpoint through association and raising rather than purely being religious. 

 

Spanish and Spanish heritage descendant nations I would take a guess are still the most Christian group of people in the world. 

 

Also funnily enough if you look at the PRRI link that article it actually shows findings that despite the majority (51% to 37%) of millennials believe that abortion is morally wrong, the majority still support some form of legal abortion (24% for in all cases, 30% for in most, 28% against in all cases, 16% against in most cases), and around 60% believe that it should be provided by local health care professionals. Which is still arguably a progressive viewpoint on it. So even if we have reservations against it we acknowledge a need for it. 

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Aren't Latino's (And minorities in the US) generally more religious historically than whites though? Society might be growing more aethistic, but if increasing numbers of people still coming from heavily Christian families (With an emphasis on family) and from historically poorer families (This is a massive generalisation but I make an assumption that the rising number of Latino households are on the lower income side of things) they are more likely to have anti-abortion viewpoint through association and raising rather than purely being religious. 

 

Spanish and Spanish heritage descendant nations I would take a guess are still the most Christian group of people in the world. 

 

Also funnily enough if you look at the PRRI link that article it actually shows findings that despite the majority (51% to 37%) of millennials believe that abortion is morally wrong, the majority still support some form of legal abortion (24% for in all cases, 30% for in most, 28% against in all cases, 16% against in most cases), and around 60% believe that it should be provided by local health care professionals. Which is still arguably a progressive viewpoint on it. So even if we have reservations against it we acknowledge a need for it. 

A majority (51%) of Millennials believe that having an abortion is morally wrong, compared to 37% who say it is morally acceptable. 

 

That's a pretty big shift from the older generations which were more open to the idea. Living standards have also improved in our generation so the idea of depriving a kid of that hits harder.

 

I'm not entirely sure where 3-exception people like me would fit in, the 30% or the 16%

 

It's a deceptive stat, because the number of abortions from rape/mother's life/child's health is fairly high, so while it looks like 30% just want abortions for just about everything, it's populated by people like me who agree abortions should be legal in some cases, which just have a higher chance of occurring naturally 

 

You might be right on the Hispanic thing, but I think better living standards is a more accurate explanation 

[Aerion Brightflame]

Do you have numbers on older generations? Because that's speculation otherwise. 

 

And give me a figure or evidence on the 3 exceptions making up the majority of abortions? Because I would class 'in most cases' as being what the UK has, entirely legal in the first trimester but becoming less legal as you get closer to full term. The study doesn't actually clarify, but I think it would be more fair to class these numbers all pro-choice lines than your pro-life stance. 

 

http://www.prri.org/research/millennial-values-survey-2012/- The study I'm referencing. 

 

To break the numbers down a little more:

68% for non Christian, 81% for all cases for non-religious.

59% of white Mainline protestants, and 61% of black Protestants were in favour for all or most cases. 

49% of Catholic (both white and Latino) were in favour for all or most cases, and 51% opposed. 

88% of white Evangelical Protestants are opposed in most or all cases

71% of latino Protestants are opposed in most or all cases. 

 

And it says that similar numbers apply for whether healthcare professionals should provide it. 

 

So there's evidence that religion plays a big role in attitude towards abortion. Unless you want to make the claim that these religious groups also tend to have lower standards of living, which I guess you could? But it's sketchy. 

 

It also included relative levels of education and attitudes towards abortion:

http://www.prri.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/PRRI-2012-Millennial-Values_legality-of-abortion-by-education.jpg

 

Which generally implies that the more educated you are and the more secular said institutions were the more likely you are to favour abortion being legal. This is for all or most cases btw. 

 

Finally it also splits it by political group for fun: 

71% of democrats, 53% of Republicans, and 29% of Republicans.

 

It fits the expectations really? I'm not sure what else to say, but those numbers and leanings are what I'd expect from just my innate biases towards those groups. It's more complex than just living standards because living standards in the US are high overall. I think I could use the other data shown to break down the groups more so and prove that the groups favouring no abortion tend to be the ones with poorer formal educations but I cba right now. 

 

The point I'm making is that as per the global expectation - As a society gets a better education and becomes more secular stances towards things like abortions soften. 

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Do you have numbers on older generations? Because that's speculation otherwise. 

 

And give me a figure or evidence on the 3 exceptions making up the majority of abortions? Because I would class 'in most cases' as being what the UK has, entirely legal in the first trimester but becoming less legal as you get closer to full term. The study doesn't actually clarify, but I think it would be more fair to class these numbers all pro-choice lines than your pro-life stance. 

 

http://www.prri.org/research/millennial-values-survey-2012/- The study I'm referencing. 

 

To break the numbers down a little more:

68% for non Christian, 81% for all cases for non-religious.

59% of white Mainline protestants, and 61% of black Protestants were in favour for all or most cases. 

49% of Catholic (both white and Latino) were in favour for all or most cases, and 51% opposed. 

88% of white Evangelical Protestants are opposed in most or all cases

71% of latino Protestants are opposed in most or all cases. 

 

And it says that similar numbers apply for whether healthcare professionals should provide it. 

 

So there's evidence that religion plays a big role in attitude towards abortion. Unless you want to make the claim that these religious groups also tend to have lower standards of living, which I guess you could? But it's sketchy. 

 

It also included relative levels of education and attitudes towards abortion:

http://www.prri.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/PRRI-2012-Millennial-Values_legality-of-abortion-by-education.jpg

 

Which generally implies that the more educated you are and the more secular said institutions were the more likely you are to favour abortion being legal. This is for all or most cases btw. 

 

Finally it also splits it by political group for fun: 

71% of democrats, 53% of Republicans, and 29% of Republicans.

 

It fits the expectations really? I'm not sure what else to say, but those numbers and leanings are what I'd expect from just my innate biases towards those groups. It's more complex than just living standards because living standards in the US are high overall. I think I could use the other data shown to break down the groups more so and prove that the groups favouring no abortion tend to be the ones with poorer formal educations but I cba right now. 

 

The point I'm making is that as per the global expectation - As a society gets a better education and becomes more secular stances towards things like abortions soften. 

 

 

"Young Americans — voters under 30 — were once the most gung-ho in support of unfettered legal abortion. In 1991, fully 36 percent believed abortion should be legal under any circumstances. But by 2010, 18-to-29-year-olds had become more pro-life than their parents — only 24 percent still wanted to keep abortion legal in all cases. More than any other age cohort, in fact, young adults are now the most likely to think abortion should be illegal in all circumstances"

 

https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2015/06/09/millennial-americans-rethink-abortion-for-good-reasons/ZCmZNJuCWKVr5brzVfaiuI/story.html

 

I was wrong on the 3 exceptions thing, that's only about 20% of the abortions. Now you can argue what the people where thinking when they said 30% vs 16% but I'll concede that to you

 

• 21% Inadequate finances

• 21% Not ready for responsibility

 

This is why it needs to be illegal imo, that's not a excuse

 

 

Well the the groups with the lowest abortion rates are the highest earners (followed by the truly poor who likely can't afford it). 

 

 

Old af, but I'll find a better graph later, the better life you can give your kid, the less likely you are to want to get an abortion. So it's primary economic, which matches with the 21% about finance.

 

overall

 

 

People might moderately think it should be legal, but more people hate it now day, and abortion rates are dropping everywhere. Even states with no restrictions. 

[Aerion Brightflame]

The article, particularly the quote you mentioned is a little disingenuous. If you look at the Gallop polls they use,

 

http://www.gallup.com/poll/126581/Generational-Differences-Abortion-Narrow.aspx

 

Every age group was more for abortion and less against abortion in the early 90's. It's a completely uncharacteristic spike in attitude that every age group has cooled down from. Even people once in that age group who have moved to a new one seem to have become less pro abortion for whatever reasons. 

 

It is also worth saying that with the exception of 50-64 age group the current attitude is fairly similar to that of those in the 70's in terms of the percentage of people pro abortion. The percentage of our age group who are fully opposed has increased by about 5% since the 70's (The largest increase). So it's kinda weird all the same. 

 

Buuut, that conclusion comes from a fairly simple piece of data and doesn't track viewpoints as a given group has aged which also matters: 

 

 

This one, a measurement of 5 different age cohorts in 75 (Well 4 in 75, a 5th considering all the people who either turned 18 in 75 or have turned 18 since (Current ages 18-51 so including us and most of our parents) shows that basically every group showed the same trends with attitudes towards pro abortion, which includes a massive spike in 94, and then a tapering off. But that the younger population since the 70's has become and stayed overwhelmingly more pro abortion than those who were middle aged and such at the time. 

 

Additionally the spike in pro-life attitudes didn't come in the past few years, it came in 2009 at the start of the Obama administration: 

 

http://www.gallup.com/poll/183434/americans-choose-pro-choice-first-time-seven-years.aspx

 

 

Notice the big big drop in 2009? And that we are now back to roughly the same level as support amongst our age group as there was before that. So if anything, the US is actual seeing a rise in pro choice attitudes after a recent decrease (But yes, it is a drop from the 90's).  

 

There's a tonne more interesting stuff you can pull from the data in these polls. Far more useful stuff than what is presented in the news article itself. Admittedly the new article does offer a fairly credible explanation for the drop in abortions in terms of actual solid numbers not speculation and that's the massive drop in teen pregnancy rate. It also in some sense justifies the different viewpoint - If less teenagers are getting pregnant, less of them may see it is a necessity. 

 

But yeah, the polls are fascinating. There's a similar attached one that's talking about how the US is getting more socially liberal in general (In that the numbers of social liberals and social conservatives are now basically even. But that conservatives still lead economically which explains the conservative numbers mentioned in the OP). 

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

A poll conducted by the Knight of Columbus and Marist College was released this month, as reported by the Students For Life America:

 

62% of Millennials favor a ban on abortion after 20 weeks of pregnancy.

66% of them oppose funding of abortions by taxpayers.

54% of them would favor prohibiting abortions except (at most) in cases of incest, rape, or danger to the mother's life.

A 2013 Washington Post-ABC News Poll found that among respondents aged 18 to 29, 57% favored a 20-week abortion ban.

 

 

We were actually off, it IS white people

 

They identify as Pro-Choice, but their views upon abortion are pretty clearly pro-life

 

It's the way that the stances are marketed tbh

[vla1ne]

i consider myself both pro choice and pro life. pro-situational choice i suppose.

 

i'm against government funding of abortions outside of rape and life endangerment because i'm not paying for irresponsibility when we're already this deep in debt. but i really don't much mind if somebody wants to pay out their own pockets. 20 weeks (5 months) seems a reasonable window to decide if you want the kid or not (and to find out whether or not you're actually having a child or not), so i somewhat support that as well, but on the flip side, if they're paying out their own pocket, why should i care at what stage they drop the pregnancy? as the situation changes, my views change with it. i'm not about paying i don't care, but if i'm paying, absolutely nothing past 20 weeks.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Minnesota, all voters:

 

all voters: HRC 47, Trump 45 age 18-24: Trump 48, HRC 43

 

Wisconsin, all voters: Trump 48, HRC 47 age 18-24: Trump 45, HRC 43

 

Hmmm

 

It's pretty much like that all over

 

Older Millennials (24-33) skew left, younger skew right

 

Except ofc god forsaken places like commifornia