Transgender [Serious]

[Dad]

I'd much rather get trans people jobs than get them bathroom rights, pick your battles

 

I was under the impression that they shouldn't have to choose between the two.

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

I'd much rather get trans people jobs than get them bathroom rights, pick your battles

Yeah sorry that argument isn't going to fly here. I don't know of any possibilities that make it logical to say that having different bathroom policies will lock anyone out of jobs.

And people don't just commit to a single cause and forget everything else.

[Phantom Roxas]

Winter has made it clear that he wants to deny transgender people bathroom rights, so he's telling us to pick battles (Read: Talk about jobs instead) to distract us from the bathroom issue because he doesn't like hearing about it.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Not quite, I've made it clear I have no real inclination to fight to get them bathroom rights. I also don't care enough about it to work against getting them those rights. 

 

I don't really have a problem with a trans individual pissing next to any child of mine, because no child of mine is going into a bathroom without an adult when they're kids.

 

Trans people not getting the basic wage they need to survive because they're trans is upsetting to me however

 

If this is some masterful plan of mine to pull wool over your eyes, it's going terribly. Keep fighting if you think bathrooms are important. I just don't give a flying funk about it eitherway.

Yeah sorry that argument isn't going to fly here. I don't know of any possibilities that make it logical to say that having different bathroom policies will lock anyone out of jobs.

And people don't just commit to a single cause and forget everything else.

This is false, the marginal cost involved with accommodating trans individuals can be a turn off in hiring them

[VCR_CAT]

Not quite, I've made it clear I have no real inclination to fight to get them bathroom rights. I also don't care enough about it to work against getting them those rights. 

 

I don't really have a problem with a trans individual pissing next to any child of mine, because no child of mine is going into a bathroom without an adult when they're kids.

 

Trans people not getting the basic wage they need to survive because they're trans is upsetting to me however

 

If this is some masterful plan of mine to pull wool over your eyes, it's going terribly. Keep fighting if you think bathrooms are important. I just don't give a flying f*** about it eitherway.

 

Then stop talking about it. Stop making a fuss over it. Stop belittling others because they don't agree with you over it, and definitely stop making sheet arguments that are really just you posting about your personal opinions and acting like they should be the objective be-all end-all regarding the issue.

 

If you really don't care about it, then stop making an ass of yourself and learn to just leave sheet alone for once.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Then stop talking about it. Stop making a fuss over it. Stop belittling others because they don't agree with you over it, and definitely stop making sheet arguments that are really just you posting about your personal opinions and acting like they should be the objective be-all end-all regarding the issue.

 

If you really don't care about it, then stop making an ass of yourself and learn to just leave sheet alone for once.

I do have problem with the tampon issue and diverting tax payer money to make unisex bathrooms though

 

I wasn't actually the one who brought it up, someone else started the hysteria about concentration camps for Trannies under Trump and the Alt-Right 

 

See while I won't cry if they get their bathroom rights, I don't want any of my money going to a crusade I don't believe in when there are potholes in the roads that actually need fixing and a debt that needs paying off

[VCR_CAT]

I do have problem with the tampon issue and diverting tax payer money to make unisex bathrooms though

 

I wasn't actually the one who brought it up, someone else started the hysteria about concentration camps for Trannies under Trump and the Alt-Right 

 

See while I won't cry if they get their bathroom rights, I don't want any of my money going to a crusade I don't believe in when there are potholes in the roads that actually need fixing and a debt that needs paying off

 

Regardless of what your views are, unless you actually have the intention of presenting them in a rational manner with a REAL argument instead of just spouting false dilemmas and belittling others as usual, keep it to yourself. If you want to be listened to, actually make yourself worth listening to instead of just shitposting because you can't accept that other people don't want the same thing as you.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

he doesn't like hearing about it.

This is actually true 

 

I can't believe both the right and the left are being so stubborn and emotional (from my perspective) about a stupid (IMO again) issue.

Regardless of what your views are, unless you actually have the intention of presenting them in a rational manner with a REAL argument instead of just spouting false dilemmas and belittling others as usual, keep it to yourself. If you want to be listened to, actually make yourself worth listening to instead of just shitposting because you can't accept that other people don't want the same thing as you.

Why are you moving the goalpost here. First it was be quiet if you don't care, then it was ok you do care, umm....be quiet anyway. 

 

I value every cent I make, and every cent that goes to Uncle Sam...and this is not how I want it spent when there are pressing places it needs to go to

 

Of the many (IMO) bullshit things the Trans community wants, I don't happen to care about the specific usage of public bathrooms. Stop homogenizing that to twist my words to say I don't care about the other things they are fighting for or against

 

 

Regardless of what your views are, unless you actually have the intention of presenting them in a rational manner with a REAL argument instead of just spouting false dilemmas and belittling others as usual, keep it to yourself. If you want to be listened to, actually make yourself worth listening to instead of just shitposting because you can't accept that other people don't want the same thing as you.

Also is this not a generic shitpost

[VCR_CAT]

This is actually true 

 

I can't believe both the right and the left are being so stubborn and emotional (from my perspective) about a stupid (IMO again) issue.

 

I'm not advocating for any particular side of the issue right now, I'm advocating for you to either pull up your socks or shut up. Nobody's forcing you to read these threads, nor are these your threads or are you entitled on the conversational topic. You if you don't like it, if you don't want to talk about it, the door's right there. If you want to talk about it seriously, go for it; present your argument in a rational manner, make it sound, use actual evidence instead of a clustercuss of strawmen and false dilemmas, and for once don't be a condescending ass about it.

 

If you won't, if you really don't have any interest in it, the door's right there and you're more than welcome to use it.

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tone_policing

 

Regardless of what your views are, unless you actually have the intention of presenting them in a rational manner with a REAL argument instead of just spouting false dilemmas and belittling others as usual, keep it to yourself. If you want to be listened to, actually make yourself worth listening to instead of just shitposting because you can't accept that other people don't want the same thing as you.

 

A real argument without belittling others... like this post?

 

I'm not advocating for any particular side of the issue right now, I'm advocating for you to either pull up your socks or shut up. Nobody's forcing you to read these threads, nor are these your threads or are you entitled on the conversational topic. You if you don't like it, if you don't want to talk about it, the door's right there. If you want to talk about it seriously, go for it; present your argument in a rational manner, make it sound, use actual evidence instead of a clustercuss of strawmen and false dilemmas, and for once don't be a condescending ass about it.

 

If you won't, if you really don't have any interest in it, the door's right there and you're more than welcome to use it.

 

All the charges you make in this post you're guilty of in this post. 

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Sure. Our roads and and infrastructure need fixing. Those are a positive externality for me. Our Debt can ruin our credit rating. I want that fixed

 

Trans people getting special bathrooms, conversion, and tampons do not positively affect me. I don't want my tax payer money going to that. When there are places that sorely need it

For example, the avg cost of the M->F transition is about 20-25k? That's a road fixed right there. Or an impoverished school getting more supplies

 

---

 

Now I feel I need to preface something before a certain individual loses his/her sheet about this and wrongly proclaims I'm promoting hate speech

 

If a Trans person finds his own money to do any of the above things, that's hi/hers right as a private citizen, and I would then disagree with the political right in their crusade not to recognize said individual's transition 

 

For example, formerly Bruce Jenner, is now a female, in my eyes

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

Interesting note: Bruce wants to go back to being Bruce again.

[VCR_CAT]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tone_policing

 

 

 

 

A real argument without belittling others... like this post?

 

Last I checked I wasn't arguing for the main issue at hand; if you would actually be so kind to read my last post as to what I'm talking about. Nothing of what he's posting is worth responding to in discussion because they aren't arguments. If we want actual discussion, then this sheet isn't worth having around if he's not willing to actually approach it in a mature manner. Like I said, if he wants to be listened to, he needs to start making himself worth listening to.

 

 

Sure. Our roads and and infrastructure need fixing. Those are a positive externality for me. Our Debt can ruin our credit rating. I want that fixed

 

Trans people getting special bathrooms, conversion, and tampons do not positively affect me. I don't want my tax payer money going to that. When there are places that sorely need it

For example, the avg cost of the M->F transition is about 20-25k? That's a road fixed right there. Or an impoverished school getting more supplies

 

If you want to talk about those issues, then bring it up in an appropriate thread, or how about actually just talk about them. But oh, again, you have no entitlement to what people are talking about, and if it isn't something you like, tough. If none of it affects you, if you don't care about it and don't want to talk about it, then don't talk and shut up. This isn't your thread and nobody here has any obligation to even remotely care about what issues you want to talk about first. So, instead of making these threads your personal toilet for shitposts, go about the discussion in a mature manner or just leave it be. The world doesn't revolve around you.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Interesting note: Bruce wants to go back to being Bruce again.

Sucks for him, F->M is like 5x more expensive, and the sex organs don't work as well. It's easier to replicate a jabroni than it is a dick

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

1.) Keep fighting if you think bathrooms are important. I just don't give a flying funk about it eitherway.

 

2.) This is false, the marginal cost involved with accommodating trans individuals can be a turn off in hiring them

1.) Prove it.

 

2.) That makes no sense. It wouldn't be a "You must implement this if you hire a trans person" it would be something that would just exist already. Because it's not specifically employees that this would be for. It would be the public. So no, it is not false, it has nothing to do with a trans person being able to be hired. If you really want to try and link the two, do it in a way that isn't an asspull.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Last I checked I wasn't arguing for the main issue at hand; if you would actually be so kind to read my last post as to what I'm talking about. Nothing of what he's posting is worth responding to in discussion because they aren't arguments. If we want actual discussion, then this sheet isn't worth having around if he's not willing to actually approach it in a mature manner. Like I said, if he wants to be listened to, he needs to start making himself worth listening to.

I largely disagree with Polaris here, you have a right to (IMO) shitpost. But the problem I have here is, who are you to dictate what is worth listening to or not for the general populous? Isn't that bigotry?

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

Last I checked I wasn't arguing for the main issue at hand; if you would actually be so kind to read my last post as to what I'm talking about. Nothing of what he's posting is worth responding to in discussion because they aren't arguments. If we want actual discussion, then this sheet isn't worth having around if he's not willing to actually approach it in a mature manner. Like I said, if he wants to be listened to, he needs to start making himself worth listening to.

 

You seem to be under the impression you're more "worth listening to" than Winter. I find Winter "worth listening to", it's not his problem that you don't.

 

I largely disagree with Polaris here, you have a right to (IMO) shitpost. But the problem I have here is, who are you to dictate what is worth listening to or not for the general populous? Isn't that bigotry?

 

Never said one doesn't have the right to shitpost.

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

 This isn't your thread and nobody here has any obligation to even remotely care about what issues you want to talk about first.

Technically it is but I assume you mean "It's not only personally yours"?

 

Also are we now not allowed to point out flaws if we are flawed as well? Guess it's time to stop ever saying anything is bad?

Granted more than one post is a bit overkill for such a thing, Drew.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

1.) Prove it.

 

2.) That makes no sense. It wouldn't be a "You must implement this if you hire a trans person" it would be something that would just exist already. Because it's not specifically employees that this would be for. It would be the public. So no, it is not false, it has nothing to do with a trans person being able to be hired. If you really want to try and link the two, do it in a way that isn't an asspull.

Prove it? I'm not backing Ted Cruz in saying you're all dangerous sexual deviants 

 

No, but workplace accommodations tend to happen. You anticipate costs. Like you really don't think a guy in florida hiring a trans woman won't notice a case in NY where a union pushed for uni-sex bathrooms to make a more hospitable workplace? 

 

Or just look at the shitstorm of H2B in NC and be like, I want none of that. 

 

---

 

you're tryna box me into supporting the bathroom stuff Morgan. I won't. I don't think it's a crusade worthy of supporting. But at the same time it's not a detriment worthy of opposing 

[Phantom Roxas]

I do have problem with the tampon issue and diverting tax payer money to make unisex bathrooms though

 

I wasn't actually the one who brought it up, someone else started the hysteria about concentration camps for Trannies under Trump and the Alt-Right 

 

See while I won't cry if they get their bathroom rights, I don't want any of my money going to a crusade I don't believe in when there are potholes in the roads that actually need fixing and a debt that needs paying off

 

See, this is why you're belittling. You're just a bully, Winter. If you're not going to "cry" if they get their bathroom rights, then why is it a problem that your money goes to them? What happened to respecting and understanding other people who don't share your views? If you're putting your own money above everyone else just because unisex bathrooms mean nothing to you, then you're not respecting their views. Being so uptight about keeping your money away from helping them may as well be actively denying them their rights. The bathroom issue does not distract from fixing potholes. Again, you're trying to pass off two scenarios as though they were mutually exclusive. You can fix roads and offer benefits to transgender people.

 

I largely disagree with Polaris here, you have a right to (IMO) shitpost. But the problem I have here is, who are you to dictate what is worth listening to or not for the general populous? Isn't that bigotry?

 

That isn't bigotry, as you've just used that word to say "Anyone who disagrees with me must be a bigot", and your insensitive mockery towards people for what they're concerned about is you trying to dictate what is worth listening to.

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

Prove it? I'm not backing Ted Cruz in saying you're all dangerous sexual deviants 

 

No, but workplace accommodations tend to happen. You anticipate costs. Like you really don't think a guy in florida hiring a trans woman won't notice a case in NY where a union pushed for uni-sex bathrooms to make a more hospitable workplace? 

 

Or just look at the shitstorm of H2B in NC and be like, I want none of that. 

I meant prove you don't care about it. It's really easy to say "No totally I don't care" but you sound more heated about it than many here.

 

And that would happen regardless if you hire a trans person. If there is a push for unisex bathrooms or whatever then it would be something implemented everywhere. The only feasible reason an employer wouldn't is out of "revenge" for having to pay slightly more for such a change. Which is already something that can happen (discrimination) and is not supposed to happen.

Still not a reason to link the two.

 

Roxas stop that, word choice, jeezus. "Bully" isn't the right term.

 

btw Winter how much would you have to pay for this? Can you get me numbers?

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

See, this is why you're belittling. You're just a bully, Winter.

 

The lack of self-awareness is killing me. 

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

See, this is why you're belittling. You're just a bully, Winter. If you're not going to "cry" if they get their bathroom rights, then why is it a problem that your money goes to them? What happened to respecting and understanding other people who don't share your views? If you're putting your own money above everyone else just because unisex bathrooms mean nothing to you, then you're not respecting their views. Being so uptight about keeping your money away from helping them may as well be actively denying them their rights. The bathroom issue does not distract from fixing potholes. Again, you're trying to pass off two scenarios as though they were mutually exclusive. You can fix roads and offer benefits to transgender people.

 

 

That isn't bigotry, as you've just used that word to say "Anyone who disagrees with me must be a bigot", and your insensitive mockery towards people for what their concerned about is you trying to dictate what is worth listening to.

Because my damn money already isn't going to the potholes as is without another revenue demand being added

 

Not his disagreement, his pronouncement that view is worthless. The first is good and fine. The latter is bigotry 

[(GigaDrillBreaker)]

This is false, the marginal cost involved with accommodating trans individuals can be a turn off in hiring them

Not to say discrimination isn't present in hiring, because it super is, but I feel this isn't why. After all, consider the employment of smokers (who receive like a billion breaks an hour). That very much damages output, and thus profits, but (correct me if I'm wrong because I didn't check) smokers don't have a reasonably lower hire rate.

 

The reason hiring discriminates against transgender individuals is not because of the accommodations they require, it is because of prejudice, plain and simple.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

I meant prove you don't care about it. It's really easy to say "No totally I don't care" but you sound more heated about it than many here.

 

And that would happen regardless if you hire a trans person. If there is a push for unisex bathrooms or whatever then it would be something implemented everywhere. The only feasible reason an employer wouldn't is out of "revenge" for having to pay slightly more for such a change. Which is already something that can happen (discrimination) and is not supposed to happen.

Still not a reason to link the two.

 

Roxas stop that, word choice, jeezus. "Bully" isn't the right term.

 

btw Winter how much would you have to pay for this? Can you get me numbers?

Like how much I paid in income taxes last year? ~9K 

 

Thought that value does include DTTs

 

How much of it went to Trans rights? Probs 0. How much of it went to potholes...clearly 0

 

So why would I want to add another mouth to feed?