The Purge

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

This is absolutely f***ing insane. 

 

He's killing people on the grounds of being drug addicts. He's killing his own people, and his own downtrodden, marginalized people at that. Whether that's like Hitler doesn't matter, it should be nakedly obvious to you, you specifically, dear reader, that it's wrong what he's doing without such a comparison being necessary. On no speck on the globe with a semblance of sanity are people dealt the death penalty for either dealing or doing drugs. This man is assassinating those people without trial, including people he "suspects" are those people (read: anyone he wants!). That so many people in the United States are incarcerated for possession of drugs is bad enough, this is insane and will not end well. This is not a solution to crime, this is the worst crime. 

 

Duterte's now compared himself to Hitler. Is that "Godwin's law" too? And reading that very article, still people aren't getting the point, which disturbs me to no end. It's for "tone-deafness" and "the comparison of Holocaust victims to drug users and dealers" that the quoted Jewish groups are criticizing Duterte for, not for on-going mass-murder. It's Duterte's "use of language" and the notion of the Philippines leaving the U.N. that threatens the U.N., not the mass-murder (we've seen what great humanitarians they were with Rwanda). 

 

I don't know why they don't f***ing get it, I don't know why so many Filipinos don't seem to f***ing get it, I don't know why so many people here, people I might otherwise respect, don't seem to get it, it f***ing disturbs me and it f***ing should. There is nothing glamorous about Duterte, he's a murderous thug who should be detained.

 

Things will get worse in the Philippines. Much worse. Pray for the Philippines. 

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

I don't know why they don't f***ing get it, I don't know why so many Filipinos don't seem to f***ing get it, I don't know why so many people here, people I might otherwise respect, don't seem to get it

Because, in the short months since this man has taken office

 

1) Drug Crimes are tanking, Criminals and Addicts are turning themselves in

 

2) ISIS is on the run and terrified of him, they haven't been able to launch a major attack in the Philippians

 

All those addicts you're so desperate to defend, have an easy option of turning themselves in, and most are. 

 

He mouths off, but clearly it's working.  

 

3100 people have been killed, more innocent people die on US streets in a day than that amount, calm your faux outrage

[vla1ne]

This is absolutely f***ing insane. 

 

He's killing people on the grounds of being drug addicts. He's killing his own people, and his own downtrodden, marginalized people at that. Whether that's like Hitler doesn't matter, it should be nakedly obvious to you, you specifically, dear reader, that it's wrong what he's doing without such a comparison being necessary. On no speck on the globe with a semblance of sanity are people dealt the death penalty for either dealing or doing drugs. This man is assassinating those people without trial, including people he "suspects" are those people (read: anyone he wants!). That so many people in the United States are incarcerated for possession of drugs is bad enough, this is insane and will not end well. This is not a solution to crime, this is the worst crime. 

 

Duterte's now compared himself to Hitler. Is that "Godwin's law" too? And reading that very article, still people aren't getting the point, which disturbs me to no end. It's for "tone-deafness" and "the comparison of Holocaust victims to drug users and dealers" that the quoted Jewish groups are criticizing Duterte for, not for on-going mass-murder. It's Duterte's "use of language" and the notion of the Philippines leaving the U.N. that threatens the U.N., not the mass-murder (we've seen what great humanitarians they were with Rwanda). 

 

I don't know why they don't f***ing get it, I don't know why so many Filipinos don't seem to f***ing get it, I don't know why so many people here, people I might otherwise respect, don't seem to get it, it f***ing disturbs me and it f***ing should. There is nothing glamorous about Duterte, he's a murderous thug who should be detained.

 

Things will get worse in the Philippines. Much worse. Pray for the Philippines. 

page refreshed, lost a lot of words, some for the better, some for the worse. continuing on...

 

ok, two things to respond to regarding that first post, first, i never said it was the most humane solution, i said it's the most efficient as far as getting to his stated goal (eradicating drugs from his streets). you only have to look at the results to see as much. i'm not arguing for its morality, i'd get stomped all over as far as that goes, but there can be no argument that the people wanted this, they knew before he ever came into office what he was about, he never said he was about anything otherwise, his election is the will of the very people affected, and as such, it's their own cross to bear. second, i've criticized many of his actions regarding the implementation, as i've said before, he needs to fix the problems of his prisons, the overcrowding, the sub-par rehab facilities, the lack of incentives so that it's no just "come in or die", the transparency regarding dead AND living suspects, the lack of responsibility required from those who kill instead of detain criminals, the lack of explanation required from those who kill instead of detain, the allowance of group killings with no need to report them before or after to the authorities, his economic attentions, his own manners as far as insulting other countries, ect. i could go on for the whole day about the flaws, but at the end of the day, his choice, while not the one that will let most people sleep at night, is indeed the most effective, use the people's own frustration, unrestrained, to solve the problem. the people i feel the most sorry for are those addicted, who get caught in the crossfire, many f them are truly victims, and on the other side of that coin, i have no doubt that many of them stole, fought, and killed, to get their next fix, so while them dying is sad, there are indeed reasons to suspect that not all of them are angels either.

 

 

yes, it's still godwin's law, him calling himself hitler was his direct response to everybody else calling him hitler. you (not you, but you get the point) can't jabroni about him calling himself hitler, when you're the one who wouldn't stop handing him the mantle. everybody dragged godwin's law into it, so he took the mantle and ran with it. why is anybody surprised? if the rabbi are gonna be pissed at anybody, it had better be the media for putting the image out there. we all knew, from the start, who his intended targets were: drug dealers, and corrupt officials, now, if you're calling him hitler, guess who the damn jews are gonna be in this scenario? see what i mean? you can't throw names, and then jabroni when the context applies to exactly who we all knew it would be applied to from the start.

 

the Filipinos have been dealing with this for decades, they're pissed about it. they knew what he was about before he ever stepped into office, it's what he was known for, and he's not doing anything that he didn't say he'd do before election. this is, like it or not, the will of the people. now, if he'd lied beforehand, and started killing these people only after being elected, then i'd be next to you shouting, but they knew from the start, i've never called him glamorous, never though of him as such, and i wouldn't idolize the man ever (i'd make jokes about it, but that's another topic entirely), in fact, he's probably the most savage mothefucker i've ever seen, and i wouldn't like to spend time with him, for any amount of time. but i do respect him, because he came honest from the start, he wasn't elected on false pretext, he's doing exactly what he said he'd do, and what he was known for from the start. he's behind his (non drug-dealing) people, and has given them more power than hitler ever has to his

 

yeah, things may get worse, but they chose this route. there's no reason to look at them with pity, they knew what they were doing, and they're none too hesitant about following through. way i see it, it's a social experiment on a national scale. we'll see how far it goes by the end.

[ihop]

Results don't matter if the means to achieve them are disgusting. I'm sure you would cut down on crime significantly if you killed everyone under the age of 25. That doesn't disguise the fact that the man is literally murdering his citizens without any sort of justice which not only sets a terrifying precedent but is also so morally backwards that I absolutely cannot get my head round the fact that anyone can think that is OK.

 

He's a murderer. Being in a position of power and having supposedly noble objectives doesn't make it ok, cold-bloodedly murdering your citizens is never the correct way to solve any issue.

[vla1ne]

the people themselves. again, they voted him in, knowing everything he was about. there were no lies that election, he was as honest as they come, and they voted him in, overwhelmingly. they themselves are the ones doing much the killing. it's not just the ends that are justifying the means, but the people themselves that have chosen the means.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

the man is literally murdering his citizens without any sort of justice 

No, he's letting the people put pressure on criminals to seek justice, he's not literally committing murder

[Aerion Brightflame]

The democratic argument is kinda undermined when you consider that the majority of the voting population did not vote for him. He got some 16 million votes in total, whilst all of the opposing parties got some 26 million. So he technically isn't exercising the will of the people as a whole, simply the will of his supporters. But hey, that's a flaw of non parliamentary democracy. 

 

The other big flaw with it is that he is completely ignoring the bill of rights in the Philippines which give all citizens a prohibition against cruel, degrading and inhumane treatment, as well as the usual rights to a fair trial. So he is stretching the legality of his own nation even if we ignore the human rights abuse. And ignore the fact that it's basically like the Salem Witch trials thanks to the lack of due process because without that there is never a burden of proof needed. 

 

And on top of him offending basically every possible trading partner of the nation. And I think he's managed to tank the local currency's value. And come across as fairly insane in multiple press interviews. It is very much a mess. 

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

 

1) Drug Crimes are tanking, Criminals and Addicts are turning themselves in

 

The homicide rate should take precedent over the umbrella of "drug crimes", murder being far worse than smoking pot.

 

 

2) ISIS is on the run and terrified of him, they haven't been able to launch a major attack in the Philippians

 

Duterte and co. are much more efficient terrorists there than ISIS could ever hope to be. 

 

 

All those addicts you're so desperate to defend, have an easy option of turning themselves in, and most are. 

 

Suffice it to say, their being in the custody of someone who'd be happy to exterminate them doesn't comfort me, and I don't have much faith they'll be treated humanely under Duterte's administration. 

 

 

3100 people have been killed, more innocent people die on US streets in a day than that amount, calm your faux outrage

 

He said "There are 3 million drug addicts in the Philippines and I'd be happy to exterminate all of them." That is of much greater concern to me than his Hitler remarks. However many people he's gotten killed, we have no reason to believe he's done. I'm certainly not for innocent people dying on the US streets either, so that's a moot point.  

 

 

you (not you, but you get the point) can't b**** about him calling himself hitler, when you're the one who wouldn't stop handing him the mantle.

 

Regardless of who was making the comparisons beforehand, he by no means has to *take up the mantle of a genocidal lunatic*. "I'm not like Hitler because x" is not hard to say. His incapacity as the President of a country of over 100 million people to distinguish himself from Hitler, especially in the context of committing mass-murder, demands immediate international attention.  

 

 

 the people i feel the most sorry for are those addicted, who get caught in the crossfire, many f them are truly victims, and on the other side of that coin, i have no doubt that many of them stole, fought, and killed, to get their next fix, so while them dying is sad, there are indeed reasons to suspect that not all of them are angels either.

 

Those who have stolen, fought, or killed can be convicted for theft, assault, and murder. Drug possession does not a murderer make (and frankly in of itself shouldn't be criminalized at all), but to Duterte it's grounds for extermination.   

  

 

it's a social experiment on a national scale. we'll see how far it goes by the end.

 

I have no interest in seeing how Duterte's stated attempt to commit mass-murder plays out, he should be stopped as soon as possible. If those with the power to intervene choose not to, future generations will find them guilty of gross criminal negligence (mercifully, you're hardly in that position, so you'd just be proven glib and myopic).   

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

The homicide rate should take precedent over the umbrella of "drug crimes", murder being far worse than smoking pot.

 

 

 

Duterte and co. are much more efficient terrorists there than ISIS could ever hope to be. 

 

 

 

Suffice it to say, their being in the custody of someone who'd be happy to exterminate them doesn't comfort me, and I don't have much faith they'll be treated humanely under Duterte's administration. 

 

 

 

He said "There are 3 million drug addicts in the Philippines and I'd be happy to exterminate all of them." That is of much greater concern to me than his Hitler remarks. However many people he's gotten killed, we have no reason to believe he's done. I'm certainly not for innocent people dying on the US streets either, so that's a moot point.  

 

 

 

Regardless of who was making the comparisons beforehand, he by no means has to *take up the mantle of a genocidal lunatic*. "I'm not like Hitler because x" is not hard to say. His incapacity as the President of a country of over 100 million people to distinguish himself from Hitler, especially in the context of committing mass-murder, demands immediate international attention.  

 

 

 

Those who have stolen, fought, or killed can be convicted for theft, assault, and murder. Drug possession does not a murderer make (and frankly in of itself shouldn't be criminalized at all), but to Duterte it's grounds for extermination.   

  

 

 

I have no interest in seeing how Duterte's stated attempt to commit mass-murder plays out, he should be stopped as soon as possible. If those with the power to intervene choose not to, future generations will find them guilty of gross criminal negligence (mercifully, you're hardly in that position, so you'd just be proven glib and myopic).

 

He made sure to punish a police officer who killed a man after said man surrendered

 

No smoking pot isn't worse than murder. Selling lowgrade speedballs to a 13 year old is

[vla1ne]

Regardless of who was making the comparisons beforehand, he by no means has to *take up the mantle of a genocidal lunatic*. "I'm not like Hitler because x" is not hard to say. His incapacity as the President of a country of over 100 million people to distinguish himself from Hitler, especially in the context of committing mass-murder, demands immediate international attention.

 
he didn't have to, but there was never a need for those opposing to bring up hitler either. again, he's not the one who made the title, he's just the one who ran with it. there was no need for him to take up or deny the mantle, but by avoiding it every time somebody brings it up, you waste time trying to avoid a meaningless title when by taking the name, you can highlight the fact that those who called you hitler, are literally comparing the jews to drug dealers and corrupt officials, a far stronger blow to them than it is to him. this is the same as taking the names thrown at you, and making them yours just to spite those who call you by them. his own people are also doing much of the killing, he's clearly bloodstained, but he's no more of a mass murderer than any of his people. at least he's already said he'd shoulder the punishment, if any, were there to be a backlash from any angle. considering the type of person he's already shown himself to be, you can believe that he meant it. i wouldn't count on much of a backlash though. international attention's only given to profitable countries that can be exploited, the Philippines don't fall under that category just yet. give it a few months (maybe years if he fixes the flaws that i list later), if the country collapses, then it'll be profitable, and i guarantee you'll see "relief efforts" showering the country, with money changing hands in the background, but until then, good luck with that.
 
 

Those who have stolen, fought, or killed can be convicted for theft, assault, and murder. Drug possession does not a murderer make (and frankly in of itself shouldn't be criminalized at all), but to Duterte it's grounds for extermination.


turning yourself in is the alternative to getting killed. most people have realized that by now, and have already done so. which bring us to the main issue i have with his plan: prison /rehab reformation. duterte's largest problem isn't his policy, it's the fact that his country is severely under prepped for such a policy, the facilities are all drastically overcrowded, and it leads to continued suffering of those who have turned themselves in, tight security is one thing, killing those who know the rules and continue to break them is another, but treating those who surrendered like beasts, is a true issue for me. like i said, this is what a real war on drugs looks like, and for him to treat the majority of those who surrendered and actually want to reform like mindless cattle does annoy me because it goes against the way the system he has in place would work best. if he were to fix his faculties and programs, adjust his PR skills, show the citizens that the people who come quietly, or those who are brought in by other citizens, were being reformed into upstanding citizens, and provided continued support to bring those who came quietly back into society, i'd actually consider this to be a working system, murder or no murder. but as it stands, the largest flaw in the system is the rehabilitation step. he's providing a gap in his plan, where the people he releases, will likely be unable to use their skills to work in modern society. the program's already in place, if you wanna criticize it, focus on the parts that would make the most significant changes, while not ruining the efficiency (and even boosting the efficiency while reducing the body count). whether or not you hate the system, the better idea is to think of ways to change it so that when it's no longer needed (as far as using it against drug violence) it can be turned off with minimal damage to the remaining citizens, while retaining it's effectiveness all the way through. i honestly don't care for drug dealers, they ruin the lives of otherwise good people, and drug addicts ruin families and communities. do i want them all dead? no, but at the same time, i'm not gonna pretend i care all that much when they do die. 

 

I have no interest in seeing how Duterte's stated attempt to commit mass-murder plays out, he should be stopped as soon as possible. If those with the power to intervene choose not to, future generations will find them guilty of gross criminal negligence (mercifully, you're hardly in that position, so you'd just be proven glib and myopic).
 
may as well keep it honest. i don't care too much about the people there, i neither know them, nor have much to gain or lose from them except a social lesson and an interesting spectacle. i've got no interest in pretending anything otherwise right now.  i'm looking at them now to see how society works under the closest example of social anarchy possible. if somebody stops him, that's fine too, it'd be interesting to see how the citizens react once the head of the current system is lost. but what people ought to do doesn't matter in the face of  what's actually happening. the heads of state and country don't intervene because they are likely watching with the same interest that i have (or with disgust, one or the other). in fact, some of them likely hope it all collapses soon, maybe so that they don't have to waste their own resources to stop it, maybe so they can get their hands on the country while it's cheap and reforming. it's effectiveness vs waste. my criticisms and support both come from thinking of the best way to clean the country once it's completely corrupt using the system he's already put in place. he's already got the fastest method, legal or not, and he's likely unopposed in his own country because the dirt he has on the other politicians is all either legit, or close enough to it that it doesn't matter. his flaws now come mainly from the last step, if he wanted to improve the system he's got in place, he'd have to give leeway, and take the time to make the people he catches become more productive, instead of sheep. he's clearly working on it, but he's not willing to go far enough, and that's where i see his potential failure coming from.

[Dad]

He literally named Hitler as a comparison to himself for this day and age.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Dad you know better than to use the "it's 2016 damnit" logic

[(GigaDrillBreaker)]

Even if everyone wanted it, that doesn't mean it isn't totally funked up.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

It's a fitting price to pay to stop 15 years old from speedballing instead of going to school. 

 

Vla1ne is correct, the criminals and addicts have an out, if they don't take it, it's solely on them

 

What they need now is a rehabilitation program to deal with the addicts and better incarceration to deal with criminals

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

This practice is immoral, full of risks, easily abused, and just plain not very smart in the long run. Like really, it's totally just instant gratification which is a terrible move on a country-wide level.

[Aerion Brightflame]

But there's better and more humane ways to stop 15 year olds from speedballing than threat of death. 

 

Does this create jobs for people who turned to drugs and crime due to poverty? Does this tackle the societal issues that caused the drug problem to develop in the first place? I'd say, nope. 

 

Like once Duerte is gone, and the law relaxes (Well technically returns), and people look back on him as a barbarian, the drug problem just returns. Because it's not long term, it's not constitutional, it's not dealing with the cause. It's just a more extreme band-aid of the typical 'Go out and bust some heads on some corners' and make the problem go away for a bit. 

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

Update: Duterte apologizes to Jewish community, says that his remarks were a reflection of his critics' portrayal of him.

 

I'd much rather he apologized to the 3 million people he said he'd be happy to slaughter, but it's a start.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Update: Duterte apologizes to Jewish community, says that his remarks were a reflection of his critics' portrayal of him.

 

I'd much rather he apologized to the 3 million people he said he'd be happy to slaughter, but it's a start.

Those three million have an easy option to take in order not to be slaughtered, I suggest they take it

[Dad]

"We don't want to kill you. Just comply."

 

Sounds far too familiar.

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

Those three million have an easy option to take in order not to be slaughtered, I suggest they take it

Dude you said this like four times now? Pretty sure it's clear that the people against it don't really see that as a "good thing"

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Dude you said this like four times now? Pretty sure it's clear that the people against it don't really see that as a "good thing"

Well you're not exactly making any case for it. Vla1ne is the only one who brought up a legit point that the rehab and incarceration is meh atm. 

 

Getting dealers off the street, even for a small period, will allow a generation to thrive without the chokehold of narcotics. That's huge 

[Aerion Brightflame]

Well you're not exactly making any case for it. Vla1ne is the only one who brought up a legit point that the rehab and incarceration is meh atm. 

 

Getting dealers off the street, even for a small period, will allow a generation to thrive without the chokehold of narcotics. That's huge 

 

No, it gets them off the street until the law relaxes. Which I doubt is a generation if the economy tanks. 

 

Getting them off the street only matters if you are introducing the framework to undecut drugs at the same time. Otherwise you are just busting heads for the sake of busting heads. 

 

Duerte, to my knowledge, has not started to institute any kind of program or policy to tackle the issues that drive people to drugs in the first place. He's not passing anti corruption legislature. He's not helping the poor find lasting employment. He could have these ideas starting, right now. He's been in power long enough to do so. 

 

He's just busting heads.

 

V1alne is right when he says that narcotics abuse is a huge issue in the Phillipenes probably bigger than just the issue of the social programs, but Duerte isn't addressing the heart of the issue at all. He's just going for the easy solution by making them fearful, and that only lasts as long as he does unless he starts undermining the drug trade with legislature and social programs. Because without them, these people who've been 'cured' of drugs will just relapse because you've not helped deal with what drives them to that point. 

 

Like getting clean is piss easy - It's a few days/week of suffering when you are weened off the drugs. Staying clean is really, really hard without the proper support structures. 

[vla1ne]

alright, before it goes into a spiral, can we all at least agree that the end of the system, regardless of the beginning portion, is the most liable part to burn the country down? his unwillingness to properly establish a way to stay out of the drug trade after surrender instead of just "stay clean or die" is going to prove to be the most damaging area of the program no matter what the first steps were.

 

death or no, intimidation will only get you so far if you aren't even willing to provide support, which brings me to another problem that i think we can all agree on; jobs. if he can't find ways to attract business, his country is going to face a lot more issues in the long run, and once those problems hit, no amount of murder is going to make people want to give up the sweet release that drugs will be waiting to provide them. he's gotta give his solution a base, a humane base, otherwise he's going to lose much, if not all of the progress that's been won so far. you've given them the stick, it's time to start planting carrots. and the first step he could take? construction. build more prisons, and you'll have more jobs, however temporary, in the meantime, fix the relationship between himself and businesses, and find things that he can use to make a profit for the country as a whole. no matter how black it was morally, he's made headway against the problem, and if he decides to lose that all in favor of his stubborness, then it'll only come back to bite him or the next president a hundred times over.  

 

 

Update: Duterte apologizes to Jewish community, says that his remarks were a reflection of his critics' portrayal of him.

 

I'd much rather he apologized to the 3 million people he said he'd be happy to slaughter, but it's a start.

wow. so you can make him apologize! i swear the jews control anything and everything

 

i agree that about half of those 3 million deserve an apology. dealers are one thing, they know they deal death and addiction, and continue to do so for their own profit, but the addicts (who want to be clean) deserve much better than to be slaughtered.

[Francis Urquhart]

...I am going to be completely honest here. I simultaneously admire and am terrified of this man. No wonder he's called the Trump of the East. Makes you wonder how the actual Trump might turn out.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

...I am going to be completely honest here. I simultaneously admire and am terrified of this man. No wonder he's called the Trump of the East. Makes you wonder how the actual Trump might turn out.

 

A picture says a thousand words, he'll revolutionize the economics of America, clean out the swamp of Washington, and make it a government of for and by the people again