The Purge

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Brb, learning to speak to ja'mon for when I go to Jamaica. Since its the only language they understand.

 

• Man without law will create his own law. It is the nature of things. Whether the law was the spoken word or written in scrolls. It has always been.
• Man with law understands what his freedoms are among his fellow men.
• There is nothing you deserve that another man deserves as well.
• You deserve neither freedom, nor justice, nor food nor homes.
• What you deserve is the right to live and see another day.

 

Despite my post, I do believe that Duetitties is at an infringement upon the right to live and thus in great wrong. On the same token, I believe that you White are wrong as well given what is said above. Unless communication is yet again at fault.

I believe it is, since I agree with the conclusion there. I think the civilians need to rise up, but murder should not be the desire.

 

Violence if needed, but change for certainty 

You literally equated their deaths with progress.

funking where...if one thing I have been consistent on here, it's that I don't agree with the murder aspect at all

[Dad]

funking where...if one thing I have been consistent on here, it's that I don't agree with the murder aspect at all

 

 

Results speak. 

 

 

For the greater good sacrifices must be made right? 

 

It's unfortunate that they're killing the people instead of just capturing them. But it's not too hard to understand WHY they're so passionate about cleansing out this in that region 

 

While you've successfully backtracked a number of times, I should correct myself.  You indirectly supported the murders of these men/women.  So, I was wrong.

 

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

While you've successfully backtracked a number of times, I should correct myself.  You indirectly supported the murders of these men/women.  So, I was wrong.

Results speak and the second post was entirely about the seeming drop in drug traffic and people turning themselves in. Jesus Dad, I'm not advocating for them stringing up every other person in some witch-hunt. I'm trying to say when the civilians get involved changes do happen. Literally it.

 

Results=Lower Drugs

Passion=the people had a gov that failed them w/ regards to the drugs, they lost their children, they're passionate. They're anger is justified, the outcome is good, the means is problematic 

[a bad post]

Results speak and the second post was entirely about the seeming drop in drug traffic and people turning themselves in. Jesus Dad, I'm not advocating for them stringing up every other person in some witch-hunt. I'm trying to say when the civilians get involved changes do happen. Literally it.

 

Results=Lower Drugs

Passion=the people had a gov that failed them w/ regards to the drugs, they lost their children, they're passionate. They're anger is justified, the outcome is good, the means is problematic 

Except when you involve citizens like this that's exactly what you get, a witch hunt. As I stated before this type of situation basically turns into the Crucible. "I don't like you so guess what I think I've seen you selling drugs to people." That's your end product here. Vigilante justice isn't justice. This isn't the comics JABRONI. I'm not supporting people who sell drugs to others I'm supporting a fair trial system, you guilty until proven innocent. Not a bunch of angry civillians going out and killing anybody they think is selling drugs.

 

I know how bad drug abuse is, I almost lost my best friend to drugs. My uncle's life was nearly ruined by alcohol. I've had my own struggles with drugs. Point is I know how bad drugs can funk people up, but I don't wish death on other people for selling them. Like I said most of those selling drugs are likely low income people struggling to make ends meet, and so they probably aren't in the human trafficking business (because apparently there's proof of those two being connected /sarcasm). This isn't the black and white issue you want to make it Winter.

 

Either way the media "not being subjective" is no excuse for threatening violence against people. "Disrespect" is not grounds for the death penalty and yet again I fail to see your logic.

[vla1ne]

well, i for one support both the method and results. witches do not exist, drug dealers do. and if you're selling a bag of rocks in the phillipines to a kid on the street, and get caught with bag in hand, then no magic known to man is going to save you from scores of pissed off civillians..

 

the region is far different, the crime rate is far higher, and the criminals being pursued are bottom of the barrel evil. i don't support killing jay walkers, or people with differing opinions, but i do support killing those who would harm my family. drug abuse is no joke, and nobody selling drugs doesn't know that. many members in my family have had to deal with addiction, the dealers, the sheet that you do, have done to you, and otherwise, to get your next fix. that's how they stay in business. they literally make their money by ruining the lives of as many people as possible. they give not one funk about the condition of their victims as long as they get their money.

 

the ends are not justifying the means here, the means are justified by the cause. the people are sick of the games being played, both by politicians, and by criminals, (which are not always mutually exclusive). criminals were being allowed to walk free, and their politicians were so openly corrupt that one who was convicted for raping an 11 year old, still won an election while in prison for life. their country was going down the drain because there was nobody willing to help fix things, that is his banner, that is his cause, and that is why the people are behind him,  he is only going after those who would harm them without a second thought, and he has common sense enough to allow surrender. the long term effects will be something to see, but the fact is, right now, he's doing exactly as he promised, and staying true to his initial cause. you can object if you like, but he is by no means wrong at this point in time. the current means are justified by the situation at hand.

[Dad]

He became wrong when he said reporters would be under fire for dissenting opinions.  They may as well all be criminals.  And if we're talking about impacting the lives of families (which scumbag drug dealers already do), he's part of the problem.  Because many of these drug dealers have family too.  And if he's too comfortable, their family isn't going to tolerate it.

 

That's what drug dealers do.  They seek vengeance.  And I wouldn't be surprised to see a rise from both parties until innocents are killed in the streets.

[vla1ne]

He became wrong when he said reporters would be under fire for dissenting opinions.  They may as well all be criminals.  And if we're talking about impacting the lives of families (which scumbag drug dealers already do), he's part of the problem.  Because many of these drug dealers have family too.  And if he's too comfortable, their family isn't going to tolerate it.

 

That's what drug dealers do.  They seek vengeance.  And I wouldn't be surprised to see a rise from both parties until innocents are killed in the streets.

you are correct, he is wrong in that area. but in that same vein, reporters are not drug dealers, they do not profit upon destroying the life of as many people as possible (ok, arguable, but the point stands) you're also right when you say drug dealers do have families,  but on that same coin, so do their victims. so do the people forced into sex trafficking. everybody has family. while he might be comfortable, and the family of those drug dealers and sex traffickers might be upset, where was their outrage when their drug dealing family member was making them a living by ruining the people of their own country. 

 

yes, drug dealers, and the families of drug dealers might seek vengance, but they aren't going against him, they're going against the people of the country, they can be mad all they like, but they (druggers, traffickers, ect,) have sat pretty for quite a while. this is already vengeance, and as you can see already, the criminals already understand that, they're already surrendering en masse. The rise is already over. it ended once the civilians started fighting back.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Update:

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-37162323

 

Cracking down on the police for overstepping is happening as well

[vla1ne]

Update:

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-37162323

 

Cracking down on the police for overstepping is happening as well

good on them. it does bear stating that excessive killing is liable to do more harm than good. the cops (and civillians) who get too trigger happy walk a thin line. they're in danger of losing sight of their cause. the reason they're killing those people is easy to understand, but at the same time, only so many deaths are actually required at this point. on the other side of that coin though, i find it interesting that the rampant corruption of the Filipino politicians, and excessive drug related crime warranted less discussion in places like the U.N. than the implemented solution to said problems..

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

good on them. it does bear stating that excessive killing is liable to do more harm than good. the cops (and civillians) who get too trigger happy walk a thin line. they're in danger of losing sight of their cause. the reason they're killing those people is easy to understand, but at the same time, only so many deaths are actually required at this point. on the other side of that coin though, i find it interesting that the rampant corruption of the Filipino politicians, and excessive drug related crime warranted less discussion in places like the U.N. than the implemented solution to said problems..

Not that surprising. Establishment wants to protect itself. Why air your own dirty laundry. If they start talking about how drug rates are dropping, criminals are turning themselves in, and corrupt complicit politicians are being found, they'd be lighting a fire under their own asses

 

We have no friends in the U.N. mate

[vla1ne]

Not that surprising. Establishment wants to protect itself. Why air your own dirty laundry. If they start talking about how drug rates are dropping, criminals are turning themselves in, and corrupt complicit politicians are being found, they'd be lighting a fire under their own asses

 

We have no friends in the U.N. mate

in either case, it's still a terrible time to live in the Philippines. past this, they've still got a long way to go for economic stability. bright side, they're back above rock bottom, dark side, they've still got a long way to climb. the most interesting part about this though is that it's the first time in recent history where the civilians have actively went out to root out, and put down, the corruption on their streets. we've seen protests and the like, but this was the first real scraping of the streets that i can think of in recent history.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

in either case, it's still a terrible time to live in the Philippines. past this, they've still got a long way to go for economic stability. bright side, they're back above rock bottom, dark side, they've still got a long way to climb. the most interesting part about this though is that it's the first time in recent history where the civilians have actively went out to root out, and put down, the corruption on their streets. we've seen protests and the like, but this was the first real scraping of the streets that i can think of in recent history.

Arab Spring?

[vla1ne]

Arab Spring?

not at this level. arab spring was a powerful movement, but the difference in results, method, (somewhat) cause, and scale, tops that by far. arab spring was a large scale form of movement, but this tops it, it's all the way at the bottom and top rungs of the ladder, every level is being purged, and it's at such a level where even those in the UN are shaken up by the power of the people.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/cd9eda8d34814aedabb9579a31849474/duterte-tells-obama-not-question-him-about-killings

 

Duterte said before flying to Laos that he is a leader of a sovereign country and is answerable only to the Filipino people. He was answering a reporter's question about how he intends to explain the extrajudicial killings to Obama. More than 2,000 suspected drug pushers and users have been killed since Duterte launched a war on drugs after taking office on June 30.

In his typical foul-mouthed style, Duterte responded: "I am a president of a sovereign state and we have long ceased to be a colony. I do not have any master except the Filipino people, nobody but nobody. You must be respectful. Do not just throw questions. Putang ina I will swear at you in that forum," he said, using the Tagalog phrase for son of a jabroni.

 

BTFO

 

We honestly need more of this, Obama is really overreaching these days. Threatening May yesterday for one. 

[Dad]

"Obama is too soft."

 

"Obama is really over stepping."

 

?

[Aerion Brightflame]

I wonder when this is said and done how many people will have been killed falsely. 

 

Because in part it seems like the Witch Trials - You don't need emphatic proof that X person is using or dealing because the justice system is entirely circumnavigated. It means you can get tossers getting others killed for pointless reasons. 

 

As for the idea itself - In any 1st world country this would be insane and inhumane. But as far as I am aware there is no first world country where the Drug trade has done as much damage and had as much control as the Phillipenes. This is still a frankly insane solution because you are killing people, but you can understand where the approach comes from and why in the Phillipenes it may be 'appreciated' or 'work'. 

 

But to think it could work for any social issue in any first world nation is wrong. We have fairly decent function legal systems, and the money/social infrastructure to tackle these sorts of issues in the correct way. Admittedly we've had several decades of governments across a lot of nations approaching the social issues of drugs in the completely wrong fashion that's only made the situation worse, but there's no cause that demands vigilante justice to be the norm. Because we aren't in a position that demands instant results that 'justify' any method. 

 

Also if this guy doesn't get tried for violation of human rights or something like that in a few years I will be amazed. Even if it works short term I will be amazed if he doesn't rot in a jail cell for most of his life. 

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

"Obama is too soft."

 

"Obama is really over stepping."

 

?

Very few things in life are absolutes. Obama is no exception.

 

The man is soft on people who insult him and this country. Like China, Daesh, Putin* and Radical Islam

 

The man oversteps where he has no right to. Brexit, The Purge, threatening May, Arab Spring

 

*He's complacent with Putin in front of him, and then go after Russia aggressively on matters not relevant.

 

I will give him credit for his hard stance on Political Correctness, not as refined as we need it, but atleast he's willing to talk against it

 

 

 

I wonder when this is said and done how many people will have been killed falsely. 

 

Because in part it seems like the Witch Trials - You don't need emphatic proof that X person is using or dealing because the justice system is entirely circumnavigated. It means you can get tossers getting others killed for pointless reasons. 

 

As for the idea itself - In any 1st world country this would be insane and inhumane. But as far as I am aware there is no first world country where the Drug trade has done as much damage and had as much control as the Phillipenes. This is still a frankly insane solution because you are killing people, but you can understand where the approach comes from and why in the Phillipenes it may be 'appreciated' or 'work'. 

 

But to think it could work for any social issue in any first world nation is wrong. We have fairly decent function legal systems, and the money/social infrastructure to tackle these sorts of issues in the correct way. Admittedly we've had several decades of governments across a lot of nations approaching the social issues of drugs in the completely wrong fashion that's only made the situation worse, but there's no cause that demands vigilante justice to be the norm. Because we aren't in a position that demands instant results that 'justify' any method. 

 

Also if this guy doesn't get tried for violation of human rights or something like that in a few years I will be amazed. Even if it works short term I will be amazed if he doesn't rot in a jail cell for most of his life. 

He'll get tried when the movement that put him in power feels betrayed. Ie. The People. That's what always happens. French Revolution, Soviet Russia, Pablo Escobar, even Trump and Bernie for a while in the middle. When they lose faith in him, they'll turn him over. But this man seems to have his finger on the scale, so he might not cross the line. So far he's not even doing much, just putting the information out there on corrupt officials and letting the people decide. 

 

And you're wrong there. It does happen in 1st world countries. It's called Jails. Justice takes place inside them for people who get off too easy. And look at BLM and other reactionary groups that have risen up recently. You're right that problems aren't as bad elsewhere to merit this kinda of reaction, but that'll all change if the number of Blacks killed keeps going up or if Islam tries another stunt in the US.

 

If more people like the Stanford Rapist keep getting around justice, you can be damn sure that even us "civilized" people will rise up.

[Aerion Brightflame]

The people who get killed in jails are usually Child Offenders or people who caused some big vendetta. Which is a significantly smaller portion of the criminal population that drug dealers or drug users, it's not directly comparable. Especially since people being killed in jail is not officially sanctioned vigilante justice. It's very different and it's on a gigantic scale - At no point is there required proof of guilt in the Philippines. People getting shanked in jail say have to have been proven guilty for some crime first: There is due process involved. No such thing exists here. 

 

Even if more Blacks get killed wrongly by the Police it won't be anywhere comparable as a situation - The people could take 'justice' into there own hands and go kill some cops. But the government wouldn't sanction it. The people who killed cops would be tried and convicted as per the criminal justice system. You would need extreme situations to justify going to the people and saying 'No you guys deal with this with whatever means you have on hands (Which will always be violence, the people don't have money to do anything else)' something like cops breaking into peoples houses and executing them as they sleep levels of bad. 

 

This isn't the people rising up in spite of the government or against the government, this is the government both making it legal for them to rise up and actively encouraging it. It's very different to the example of the French Revolution say. It is closer to the Salem Witch Trials than the French Revolution in terms of the type of movement. (Obviously Drugs are a more certain problem than Witchcraft was and there's a little less coveting of thy neighbours land)

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

This isn't the people rising up in spite of the government or against the government, this is the government both making it legal for them to rise up and actively encouraging it. It's very different to the example of the French Revolution say. It is closer to the Salem Witch Trials than the French Revolution in terms of the type of movement. (Obviously Drugs are a more certain problem than Witchcraft was and there's a little less coveting of thy neighbours land)

If courts keep pardoning clearly racist cops, things might change.

 

 

They're not (Baltimore), and radicals killed the wrong people (Dallas and Baton Rouge). That's why a militant BLM isn't taking root

 

As for the rapists, there's not much left to speculation when the guy is handing out needles in the street, or the official somehow gets a cash influx into his private bank acct

 

You're wrong here though. The new gov is actively putting out information on old officials who let the trade slide in the past admin. It is the people rising up against the government. The government that failed the. Duterte is Robespierre moreso than John Hathorne. 

 

Here are the people who have wronged you, take the justice the former government denied you.

 

If Duterte starts dealing justice himself, instead of letting the people do it, that's what will end him. And that's what all people like him seem to end up doing. So we'll just have to watch and see

[Aerion Brightflame]

I would bet money that the drug problem stretches back further than the previous administration. Which kinda undermines the idea of killing government officials for the sake of 'justice' doesn't it? Unless he committed to find every government official that had a hand in letting the drug trade slide (Which you could argue is every member of government) and has them pay then it's not justice, it's scapegoating. Of course being the Philippines it's likely most of the government took kickbacks from some level of the drug trade so it fits his policy, but I don't necessarily think it's about justice.

 

But at what point of this process is evidence required Winter? There's no accountability if someone falsely claims and gets someone shot because there's no due process. If this was really about 'justice' you'd have trials. They don't have to be especially fair trials, but there would still be trials and some form of accountability involved in this process so that innocents don't get killed in the crossfire because that should be what he avoids - It makes the eventual transition back to a conventional legal system more smooth. (Which you know will happen unless this guy just says 'Nope my country from now on'. I wouldn't be shocked if that did happen because there is a tonne of characteristics of a dictatorship developing). 

 

The article itself raises my point - Unless there is some system of check and balance to this, some semblance of due process, it's very easy for this to switch from 'We will kill those involved in the drug trade without legal recompense' to 'We will kill any dissenting voice without legal recompense'. He already threatened it by essentially invalidating freedom of the press. 

 

My worry is essentially that this isn't actually going to end up being about justice or the people 'taking control' but instead the death of freedom and democracy in the Philippines by establishing a hyper violent dictatorship. Because the signs are there. 

[vla1ne]

I would bet money that the drug problem stretches back further than the previous administration. Which kinda undermines the idea of killing government officials for the sake of 'justice' doesn't it? Unless he committed to find every government official that had a hand in letting the drug trade slide (Which you could argue is every member of government) and has them pay then it's not justice, it's scapegoating. Of course being the Philippines it's likely most of the government took kickbacks from some level of the drug trade so it fits his policy, but I don't necessarily think it's about justice.

 

But at what point of this process is evidence required Winter? There's no accountability if someone falsely claims and gets someone shot because there's no due process. If this was really about 'justice' you'd have trials. They don't have to be especially fair trials, but there would still be trials and some form of accountability involved in this process so that innocents don't get killed in the crossfire because that should be what he avoids - It makes the eventual transition back to a conventional legal system more smooth. (Which you know will happen unless this guy just says 'Nope my country from now on'. I wouldn't be shocked if that did happen because there is a tonne of characteristics of a dictatorship developing). 

 

The article itself raises my point - Unless there is some system of check and balance to this, some semblance of due process, it's very easy for this to switch from 'We will kill those involved in the drug trade without legal recompense' to 'We will kill any dissenting voice without legal recompense'. He already threatened it by essentially invalidating freedom of the press. 

 

My worry is essentially that this isn't actually going to end up being about justice or the people 'taking control' but instead the death of freedom and democracy in the Philippines by establishing a hyper violent dictatorship. Because the signs are there. 

while true, the problem likely stretches back further, he appears to be going for practicality and effectiveness to get his results. could he go all the way back? yeah, more than likely, but he's only hitting the most recent ones at the moment because that is all that he needs to hit. the older administrations are likely just as involved, but this is essentially a warning to all those who have, or intend to, profit from the trade, it is no longer to be tolerated. it is not scapegoating to put those who are guilty to the fire, were he killing innocents instead of the guilty,  could see your cause to say as much, but in this particular case,while he's not being completely thorough, he is being very efficient.

 

 

the decree, as i understand it, is that those caught in the act, or resting arrests, are liable to be dealt with by the people. i don't think anybody in the country doesn't know the rules at this point, resist? get beaten, and possibly murdered by the people/ police. deal drugs? get shot. as i recall, there was punishment, or at least heavy reprimand towards the cops that killed the one suspect after arresting him. so in that regard, i do believe Duterte has already spoken out against it. on the flip side, you cannot solve all problems with a first world mentality. this was one of those times. was it 100% necessary to allow them (the people/police) to kill? probably not. but it was, and is. by and large the most effective method. it cuts through the red tape, saves time wasted struggling with people trying to fight the police, and has the greatest effect upon sex traffickers and drug dealers. he couldn't become a dictator, not anymore. he's given the people too much power. put simply, you cannot rule the people as dictator unless the people do not understand rebellion. he has given them so much power that he could not control them by force if he tried. could he deceive them? definitely, for a small period of time, but considering the people are already tired of lies and corruption, how far do you think he'd get with that before his head ended up on a pike?

 

 

the question here is what are they dissenting at the moment? his literal only goal has been stated multiple times over; to solve the drug trafficking problem (and possibly the sex trafficking one as well). the only news people he goes after are the ones saying that he's doing things wrong. should he go after them? no. i don't think so, but he has yet to actually take harmful actions against them, so for the moment i assume that he is only being his usual brash self. over 60,000 addicts have turned themselves into the treatment centers since he began cracking down, and thousands of dealers and politicians have turned themselves in to the police. i understand why people object to his actions, but to say that he's creating a (malevolent) dictatorship would be to ignore the fact that he has told the people in no uncertain terms, to take out corruption wherever it springs up. were he to become a corrupt individual, he has already signed his death warrant.

 

personally, i see this as the birth of freedom, if not democracy in the Philippines. but the end result has yet to arrive, so we can only speak upon the method, and i don't see much wrong with it. the people are literally at war with drugs. this is what a real war on drugs/corruption looks looks like. it's damn sure ugly, but the people are sick of the alternative.

[Halubaris Maphotika]

I suppose the question one must ask in this regard is as follows:

 

Do the ends justify the means?

 

http://newsjunkiepost.com/2013/07/21/the-true-state-of-the-philippines-crime-in-a-culture-of-corruption/

 

At least 3 years ago crime in the Philippines was absolutely rampant. Corruption riddled governments, who were ineffective at combating these crime syndicates and even worse at maintaining public morale.

 

https://www.osac.gov/pages/ContentReportDetails.aspx?cid=17461

 

As we can see here, two years later, the crime rate was still extremely high. However, as we can see with Winter's links, Duterte's regime has created a steady drop of crime within the Philippines near the tail end of 2016. This can be easily attributed by the repeated deaths of criminals, and fear of death from Duterte's threats. Whether the Davao Death Squad existed or was even remotely effective is irrelevant. The fact remains that public support for Duterte's policies and tolerance for the DDS and other vigilante groups remains steadfastly up. This public approval is directly related to the Philippine's history of crime.

 

Of course he is supported.

 

When crime is at an all time high, people tend to become rabid and desperate in their search for a solution to the problem. When the crime continues to grow, and becomes longer lasting, the victims will themselves eventually become those they hate.

 

This is basically a repeat of Weimar Germany. After World War I, despite the US urging against grudges at the Versailles meeting; France and most allied powers forced Germany to pay reparations for the entire war, give territories in equal measure to both Britain and France, and humiliatingly admit total defeat for the entirety of the Great War. What do you think this did to Germany?

 

Public morale completely dropped, hyperinflation drowned the German economy, and crime and poverty became a rapid infection spreading all across Germany. Eventually desperation from the people caused them to search for anybody who could end all of their problems in a quick and decisive manner. With this, the Nazi Party became one of the top groups receiving support from everybody all across the board. Adolf Hitler promised a swift end to the poverty of Germany, an end to their humiliation at the hands of Britain and France, and a steadfast elimination of crime throughout the country. Adolf completely rendered the Weimar Republic useless in their efforts to halt his rise to power. He didn't just have a keen sense of strategy, he had massive Public Support. Adolf blamed the fall of WWI on Blacks, Gays, Jews, Gentiles, Romani; anybody who didn't fit his view of the perfect German citizen. What do you think the German public did?

 

They formed massive lynch mobs and attacked all of these groups of people. The Gestapo may have become official at the time, but the Nazi Party sent the entire German public in a tailspin as they pillaged shops and mercilessly killed those Hitler had specifically called out. Adolf didn't have to wave a finger, the Public did it all for him. Why? Because they were desperate, and desperate people do desperate things. It is exactly why the Kristallnacht was so big. Everybody was looking for a perpetrator to eliminate, and Adolf gave them their perpetrator. Whether he was right or wrong didn't matter, and frankly I don't think they would have cared anyways.

 

By focusing all economic points towards strengthening the military complex, Adolf completely restructured the German economy, bringing thousands of jobs to the public. Despite this being not a very good long-term solution, Adolf maintained extraordinary support, especially for a man as intolerant as him. As soon as Germany fell in 1945 many German's were shocked to find out about the Holocaust, as if it had not occurred to many people that this would happen. It was almost like Germany had gotten massively drunk in 1933 and woke up in 1945 with a massive hangover. That's exactly what Vigilantism does.

 

Vigilantism is a form of retribution not justice. It is designed to eliminate crime, and give a middle finger to the law system that is viewed as a failure. For years, the Filipino government has been derided by its people and hated by those who have been hurt by the rampant crime. With all of this coming to a boiling point, now a man has appeared promising all of the solutions, he has given the people what they want, a way out. The public doesn't care what the catch is, they'll do it, because they see an easy way out. Now that they have finally gotten a taste of what taking matters into their own hands feels like, you'll be hard pressed to convince them to stop.

 

They are now drunk from so much red wine; eventually the criminals will become the victims, more will die, oppression and fear will be widespread, and the people will continue to support it until it stops being the solution they crave.

 

Bottom line: Duterte hasn't done sheet.

 

I don't doubt the DDS exists in some way, shape, or form, but they are not as large as the UN and Human Rights Commission seem to believe. Nor is it even remotely realistic to attribute all of the criminal killings to Duterte anyways. Of course he will take credit for it, that's a political move at best. Most of this chaos, however, has come from a bloodthirsty people bent on retribution and nothing more. And of course the UN and HRC want to believe it is all Duterte, because they don't want to think the unthinkable...

 

The people have gone mad.

 

This is no longer a simple situation. The people of the Philippines are angry, vengeful, out for blood, and don't care what sacrifices are made to achieve whatever idealistic solution they have in mind for the future. All Duterte did was become a conduit for their frustrations, he counted on them taking matters in their own hands, because he never intended on doing it himself. Just as historians blame the entirety of WWII and the Holocaust on Hitler and the Nazi Party, because we refuse to implicate a population of German's who willingly discriminated, attacked, and ransacked those whom Hitler had put the blame of their misfortunes on. They did this, THE PEOPLE DID THIS. They wanted this, and they have now gotten it.

 

Just like Germany in 1933, the Philippines have become drunk. The real question is, how long will it take them to sober up? I can assure you that removing Duterte and his constituents from power won't stop what has been set in motion, just like "going back in time and murdering Hitler as a child" wasn't going to stop the anger and hatred from reaching a boiling point of no return.  There is no simple solution that can quickly end this problem without more deaths being incurred. All we can do now is watch and hope they realize what is happening; otherwise things will get much worse, and we all know how that ends.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

You should actually read Mein Kaumf Jack, Hitler aggressively flame the fires. Hitler never punished the Gestapo for overreach. 

 

Duterte isn't blaming anyone who's not guilty. He letting the people man up and fix problem their government can't do. 

 

The difference here is the ideology isn't Duterte's, it's the people. Duterte has give away too much power to ever become a dictator

 

It's not like Nazi Germany at all

 

The Death squads will turn on him just as fast if he proves false. 

 

 

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/09/09/duterte-indonesia-can-chase-pirates-into-philippine-waters.html

 

^^ Not the actions of man trying to consolidate power

[Halubaris Maphotika]

You should actually read Mein Kaumf Jack, Hitler aggressively flame the fires. Hitler never punished the Gestapo for overreach. 

 

Duterte isn't blaming anyone who's not guilty. He letting the people man up and fix problem their government can't do. 

 

The difference here is the ideology isn't Duterte's, it's the people. Duterte has give away too much power to ever become a dictator

 

It's not like Nazi Germany at all

 

The Death squads will turn on him just as fast if he proves false. 

 

 

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/09/09/duterte-indonesia-can-chase-pirates-into-philippine-waters.html

 

^^ Not the actions of man trying to consolidate power

Hitler passed over 500 Animal Rights laws during his tenure as fuhrer, gave rewards to soldiers in his army who quit smoking, and raised the population of the wealthy class by 15%. That doesn't make him a good person and it doesn't make Duterte.

 

This is exactly the same. Hitler didn't try to "consolidate" power, Mein Kampf clearly describes his political aspirations. He dreamt of building Germany up from the wreckage of WWI and the Versailles Treaty. If he truly cared only about power, he wouldn't have spread his government among all of his associates. He would have taken the reigns of everything himself. No, he did what he did because he believed in it, believed in it enough to do the things he did. It would be outright ridiculous to say Hitler only attempted to gain power, because his policies scream of idealism and not egocentrism.

 

How on Earth do you know these men deserved to die? Did Duterte say they were criminals? What actual proof do we have? As far as I am concerned, the criminals could just as easily be disguising themselves as vigilantes and killing random people under the guise of good faith. There's no proof to go one way or the other, the only reality is death.

 

Yes, this is the people's ideology. These people want this to happen to criminals and Duterte encourages such a viewpoint. However, Germany was the same way. It is downright ridiculous to say the anger boiling to the surface at the time was solely brought to its peak by Hitler. Anti-Semitism was at its highest in both Allied and Axis powers before WWII and the DAP had already made waves across Germany and Austria. Even if Hitler hadn't written Mein Kampf or even remotely joined the Nazi Party, Anton Drexler would have easily filled those shoes. To pretend like the people were persuaded to the side of the DAP and NSDAP is downright inaccurate. Anti-Semitism was ripe within Munich, a hotbed of the NSDAP, Germany's people wanted and openly encouraged discrimination of this kind. Hell, they encouraged it before WWI as well. You give Hitler much more credit than he deserves. Hitler gave his people an extraordinary amount of power, which gave the Gestapo a foothold over the people. A combination of fear and adoration is the only reason the Gestapo were able to do what they do, otherwise they would have been outnumbered by the sheer volume of German citizens rebelling against them.

[vla1ne]

Hitler passed over 500 Animal Rights laws during his tenure as fuhrer, gave rewards to soldiers in his army who quit smoking, and raised the population of the wealthy class by 15%. That doesn't make him a good person and it doesn't make Duterte.

 

This is exactly the same. Hitler didn't try to "consolidate" power, Mein Kampf clearly describes his political aspirations. He dreamt of building Germany up from the wreckage of WWI and the Versailles Treaty. If he truly cared only about power, he wouldn't have spread his government among all of his associates. He would have taken the reigns of everything himself. No, he did what he did because he believed in it, believed in it enough to do the things he did. It would be outright ridiculous to say Hitler only attempted to gain power, because his policies scream of idealism and not egocentrism.

 

How on Earth do you know these men deserved to die? Did Duterte say they were criminals? What actual proof do we have? As far as I am concerned, the criminals could just as easily be disguising themselves as vigilantes and killing random people under the guise of good faith. There's no proof to go one way or the other, the only reality is death.

 

Yes, this is the people's ideology. These people want this to happen to criminals and Duterte encourages such a viewpoint. However, Germany was the same way. It is downright ridiculous to say the anger boiling to the surface at the time was solely brought to its peak by Hitler. Anti-Semitism was at its highest in both Allied and Axis powers before WWII and the DAP had already made waves across Germany and Austria. Even if Hitler hadn't written Mein Kampf or even remotely joined the Nazi Party, Anton Drexler would have easily filled those shoes. To pretend like the people were persuaded to the side of the DAP and NSDAP is downright inaccurate. Anti-Semitism was ripe within Munich, a hotbed of the NSDAP, Germany's people wanted and openly encouraged discrimination of this kind. Hell, they encouraged it before WWI as well. You give Hitler much more credit than he deserves. Hitler gave his people an extraordinary amount of power, which gave the Gestapo a foothold over the people. A combination of fear and adoration is the only reason the Gestapo were able to do what they do, otherwise they would have been outnumbered by the sheer volume of German citizens rebelling against them.

 

godwin's law. every damn time. is there anything wrong with that? ok, he liked sugar too. does that make a diabetic the next hitler? innocents are undeniably being caught in the crossfire, but the intended targets, the people he has called out, are drug dealers, and corrupt politicians. (yes, i know, intent and result are two different things) whether the people he names are innocent is up for discussion, but the actions taken are not automatically wrong simply because they resemble hitler. shut that s*** down. duterte is not hitler, unless he literally begins a war against other countries. he does need to improve his prison setups, his recovery programs, his positive incentives, and his outreach programs, alongside his manners as a leader, but he is not hitler by any means, he is a blunt man, sick of the corruption in his country, same as many of the other citizens. and he is trying to get it under control in the best way he knows how. does anybody deny the current effects his war is having on drugs? similarities to hitler =/= hitler in fact, he'd do well to implement some of hitler's policies, such as animal rights and positive incentives for dropping addictions.

 

we don't know if all those men deserved to die. but to that i can ask; how many people do you think already knew who all the drug dealers were, but could do nothing about it simply because the law was on the side of the criminals?  this isn't an overnight problem, this has been the status quo for decades, upon decades. and there was no need to hide who you were, the people in office were as corrupt as the drug dealers. it's no surpris that there were so many caught so quickly. any criminal with common sense would have realized that from the start and has likely turned themselves in to a rehab clinic or prison respectively. many of the men may or may not have been innocent, but this is not anti-semitism, this is wanting your country to become better by removing those who would stoop to dealing death among the people. they knew what they were voting for when they put him in office, this is literally what he was known for before he became the head of the country. even if the means are arguable, they are not wrong in their desire. correcting the method will come in time, but at this time, it was indeed necessary. this isn't germany, they aren't coming off of a war, they are coming off of decades upon decades of corruption and poverty, and have decided to do what they see as needed to solve the issue. this is how the people themselves have decided to handle the problem

 

i swear, godwins law is damn near absolute, everywhere i go. duterte gave the people, one and all, the power to kill criminals who they catch. do you really think that the people of the philipines are bound by as much fear as the germans were? hitler gave his people nowhere near the level of power that duterte has, and the world itself is putting it's nose into the philipines, there cannot, and there will not, be a repeat of hitler.