The Purge

[Dad]

Except here, our criminals get due process.  A fair trial (if you can call our system fair when it's corrupt as funk).  But we don't just "shoot the ones we don't want".  There's a really big difference.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Except here, our criminals get due process.  A fair trial (if you can call our system fair when it's corrupt as funk).  But we don't just "shoot the ones we don't want".  There's a really big difference.

You're comparison is still kinda sheet though

 

Cause 2 of your examples are committing genocide (ethnically targeted)

 

The other is removing Drugs, SLAVERY, and Crime from the system. You of all people being opposed to this shocks me. Haven't you told me how god awful gangs are for black neighborhoods? How can you not sympathize with the desire to eliminate those very gangs elsewhere?

[Dad]

I don't agree with the method.  We all want the gangs gone.  But killing hundreds upon hundreds of people is not what I like.  Removing drugs, slavery and crime.  Literal as it is, you have no idea how many people are getting swept up in the chaos.  Soon, people with parking tickets are going to be next.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

They're planning to milk money off the needle in your sons hand while selling your daughter to the highest bidder. Are you honestly telling me you wouldn't want someone remorselessly evil like that gone? And hell, more and more people are just turning themselves in now so you don't even need to get your moral panties in a knot

 

The crowds brought him into power, the crowds can throw him out if he starts hanging people for parking tickets.

 

Hitler had a military force backing him remember, as did Daesh. All this bloke has is the ability to let people deal with their own problems. It's literally Batman mate. 

[Dad]

Okay.  Let's try this again.  Your train of thought is, "well these are bad guys, good riddance".  and your justification of an equally corrupt police force by using someone else's child as an example, is really quite sad.  So if we're gonna talk about morals, why don't we look at the fact that these same words could quite easily be applied to the United States right now?

 

If we took every criminal who has ever sold a drug (weed, coke, heroin, angel dust, etc) and started executing them, you would be okay with it.  But just days ago you told me that weed and coke should be legalized and those people involved should be freed.  You're trolling again.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Okay.  Let's try this again.  Your train of thought is, "well these are bad guys, good riddance".  and your justification of an equally corrupt police force by using someone else's child as an example, is really quite sad.  So if we're gonna talk about morals, why don't we look at the fact that these same words could quite easily be applied to the United States right now?

 

If we took every criminal who has ever sold a drug (weed, coke, heroin, angel dust, etc) and started executing them, you would be okay with it.  But just days ago you told me that weed and coke should be legalized and those people involved should be freed.  You're trolling again.

Well no, I specifically said I don't agree with the execution aspect of it. I do agree with the civilian police force though. Because cops can't be everywhere or see everything. But the guy who lives next to you everyday? He'll notice. What about the old woman across the street? She'll notice. 

 

Wealth shouldn't let you escape justice, especially when you're peddling opiates and sex slaves.

 

And I still stand by that. The US government should be the main seller of Weed and Cocaine, vouch for the quality, and sell in safe/limited quantities. And then tax that revenue from it. 

 

I do think the US would be a much safer place if civilians in gang ridden black neighborhoods actively took a stance against the gangs, if Muslims actively took a stance against extremists, if Hispanics took a stance against drugs, if Whites took a stance against the KKK

 

If we just sit and watch, NOTHING will change

 

See where I'm coming from?

[Dad]

So tell me, what prevents this man from implementing those ideas instead of executing those criminals?

 

And please clear up how you "disagree with the execution".  You're praising this man and his forces for their actions, aren't you?  Wouldn't that imply you find some sort of joy from these executions?

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

So tell me, what prevents this man from implementing those ideas instead of executing those criminals?

 

And please clear up how you "disagree with the execution".  You're praising this man and his forces for their actions, aren't you?  Wouldn't that imply you find some sort of joy from these executions?

I'd prefer they'd break a few limbs and leave em tied to a lampost in front of the police station instead

 

I'm praising the end result of the actions. And I'm praising the initial idea. I dislike they they feel the need to go the extra mile and kill the buggers instead of beating them bloody and leaving them there

 

Beats me man, Cocaine is a more complex matter because too much CAN kill you. I mainly suggested the idea, because as a former user, I know the product you get usually has contamination in it. That's what kills the people a good portion of the time. A benzoate mixed in or a dealer selling you speedballs

 

It's counter-intuitive to fix a drug epidemic maybe? The US has active Alcohol lobbying to shut them down here. I dunno about in Philippians 

[D.A._Sakuyamon]

Yeah except role playing game logic doesn't apply to the real world. 

It actually can.

I'm using Lawful Evil as a descriptor. Which would be this.

 

 

Lawful evil is the most dangerous alignment because it represents methodical, intentional, and frequently successful evil. Creatures of this alignments are great respecters of laws and strict order, but life, beauty, truth, freedom, and the like are held as valueless, or at least scorned.

[Resident Fascist]

What I don't understand is that Winter holds a dissenting if not utter hatred of Muslims, a group comprising of literally millions of people all across the world from many different backgrounds, because a very minute percentage of a couple thousand at most are horrible human beings, yet will praise the actions of a Philippine Government killing what it calls "criminals". I mean, the majority of Winter's arguments consist of guilt tripping without actually resorting to hard factual evidence. 

 

 

 

I do think the US would be a much safer place if civilians in gang ridden black neighborhoods actively took a stance against the gangs, if Muslims actively took a stance against extremists, if Hispanics took a stance against drugs, if Whites took a stance against the KKK

 

 

And you are implying they aren't? I mean, it's not particularly the easiest thing to do in order. Okay, so what do a neighbourhood do to stop these gangs? Without resorting to force? Because force solves absolutely nothing. Like, the human race would be so much better if we wasn't all such incomprehensible bellends to each other. And as for Muslims taking a stance against Extremism, that happens too. A lot. The only thing is, the western media outlets often don't cover it because it doesn't sell as well as painting an image that all Muslims are loony murder machines that will blow themselves up at the drop of a hat. Like for funk sake, that's actually what the extremist groups want, it feeds into the whole bullshit propaganda machine and allows them to continue using their religion as a weapon. Look at it like this. How many Muslims are there in the world? Millions. Okay, let's for a moment assume that Islam is this sort of violent religion that the terrorist groups practice. 

 

 Don't you think we'd have a little more of a problem? I mean, the number of non-Arab countries invaded by Arab countries in the past good 200-300 years is a whole resounding zero. Yeah, real violent religion you got there. I'm not saying that the Arab countries are totally blameless, far from it. It's just that I'm sick of people demonising others when they have done funk all wrong. Like, the sooner people actually come to terms with the fact that maybe, just maybe, the fact that people and the way religious practices around the world means that people have their own beliefs and that going out of your way to trample all over that just makes you appear like an utter twat, the sooner we can actually move forward as a race. Like, you're totally free to not like the teachings of a religion. Shoving it down people's throats? Yeah no.

[Dad]

What I don't understand is that Winter holds a dissenting if not utter hatred of Muslims.

 

False.  I don't agree with most of what Winter says, but he's made valid points for our Muslim brothers and sisters, and against their extremists.  He does not hate them, he hates the actions of the extremists.  I wouldn't go that far.

 

The rest of what you said is sort of so-so.  I agree that we have an extremist problem.  I also agree that we shouldn't be shitting all over an entirety of a religion because a lot of people interpret it differently.  I'm a Christian, I would know.  But I think a lot of this falls on the coverage we end up electing to view.  The media isn't going to cover anything other than tragedy.  It paints the whole of the Muslim people in 100% black light. 

[Icy]

I like how "results speak" is a justifiable means.  That, I find ironic.  Because you know what Daesh says?  Results speak.  They too are successful at what they're doing.  And a lot of people love them for it.  But moral's are subjective right?

 

I guess you could say Hitler thought "Hey!  Results speak!"  I mean, he killed twelve million people for his ideals before he was brought down by us.  He was successful.  And a lot of people loved him for it.  But moral's are subjective, right?

 

The crime rate drop is great.  It's good for the community.  It's good for the citizens.  But fear tactics shouldn't have to be the way to get your country in order.  He's not a fit leader, and he's a sick person.

 

This. Except I am of the mind that if this is what their country wants and if it winds up upholding the peace that they want. Then who are we to take their utopia away from them? Even my views that drug users should be imprisoned instead of rehabilitated finds this far too extreme for comfort. But thats just it, my comfort. Not theirs. Let the Philippines decide, let them decide if it is what they want. Not us. We have a right to what makes our country paradise, not they of us and vice versa.

 

Looking at the article itself though, without outside research, it appears that the perception that this is what the population wants could be wildly incorrect. As it appears people flock to the winners at a chance to bite their pies. It could be a wholly orchestrated falsehood that he is so much so held in regard. That is what bothers me for the moment. Not the murders, not the "corruption", none of that. That the Filipinos don't actually want this and that the 91% approval rating is a lie. That he isn't actually what the population wants.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

What I don't understand is that Winter holds a dissenting if not utter hatred of Muslims, a group comprising of literally millions of people all across the world from many different backgrounds, because a very minute percentage of a couple thousand at most are horrible human beings, yet will praise the actions of a Philippine Government killing what it calls "criminals". I mean, the majority of Winter's arguments consist of guilt tripping without actually resorting to hard factual evidence. 

 

 

And you are implying they aren't? I mean, it's not particularly the easiest thing to do in order. Okay, so what do a neighbourhood do to stop these gangs? Without resorting to force? Because force solves absolutely nothing. Like, the human race would be so much better if we wasn't all such incomprehensible bellends to each other. And as for Muslims taking a stance against Extremism, that happens too. A lot. The only thing is, the western media outlets often don't cover it because it doesn't sell as well as painting an image that all Muslims are loony murder machines that will blow themselves up at the drop of a hat. Like for funk sake, that's actually what the extremist groups want, it feeds into the whole bullshit propaganda machine and allows them to continue using their religion as a weapon. Look at it like this. How many Muslims are there in the world? Millions. Okay, let's for a moment assume that Islam is this sort of violent religion that the terrorist groups practice. 

 

 Don't you think we'd have a little more of a problem? I mean, the number of non-Arab countries invaded by Arab countries in the past good 200-300 years is a whole resounding zero. Yeah, real violent religion you got there. I'm not saying that the Arab countries are totally blameless, far from it. It's just that I'm sick of people demonising others when they have done funk all wrong. Like, the sooner people actually come to terms with the fact that maybe, just maybe, the fact that people and the way religious practices around the world means that people have their own beliefs and that going out of your way to trample all over that just makes you appear like an utter twat, the sooner we can actually move forward as a race. Like, you're totally free to not like the teachings of a religion. Shoving it down people's throats? Yeah no.

Excellent, drawing first blood this early are we.

 

I don't hate Muslims. Not in the slightest. I despise groups like Daesh.

 

Perhaps way you're ignorantly trying to pin on me is my distaste for Islam as an religion? I'll stand by that. The current interpretation of Islam that's widely being circulated in the Arab nations sickens me. The intolerance is staggering and utterly incompatible with the principles of any progressive mesure.

 

We've all heard Ali come in and say, people are interpreting Islam wrong, and that there are 7 means to a text, and that only some learned religious leader can really understand all 7 meaning...do you think the Jews who are not allowed live in peace care about that? Do you think the LGBT stoned to death care that they might be vindicated in interpretation number 6 that only a few know?

 

No they funking don't. You're judged on actions not intent in this world. I'll take you guys on your word that Islam wasn't built on these regressive principals. I can assure you that the religion I know best, Hinduism was. So why don't I bash Hinduism as much? Oh I don't know. Maybe cause the Hindu's over threw the cultural segregation of the caste system? Maybe cause Orthodoxy Hinduism is moving away from Patriarchy? Maybe cause Hinduism has actually bother to evolve to a civilized state to some degree? The same holds true with Christianity. Islam is firmly stuck in 1000 AD and that's not Daesh, that's your average run of the mill Muslim in those countries. 

 

So yeah, I hate Islam, or atleast the Islam I see currently. Not only because it would dictate death for me personally, but because of it's unwillingness to change.

 

Now that's dealt with, lets get to my "praise" of Duterte. I agree with the premise. The only way to fix these problems is to allow the people some liberty of power to deal with issues. The fat cats can cheat the Judicial system (and a lot of the government officials were implicit in the drug trade in this case actually). I love the end outcome. I don't like the murder. They should beat the living sheet out of the druglords and leave them broken. That's the only fitting punishment for people who have no regard for Human life. We clear?

 

No, I don't think it's being done enough. If it were the problem wouldn't exist. You wrote yourself in a corner. If the problem is so fixated to a tiny portion of the population (agree with this on Blacks, don't with Islam, but let's go with it). And if it really bothered them, the majority should be able to make a lot of ground in solving the matter. You have seen this hold true with pockets of Blacks in the US. You haven't seen it hold true with the Arabic countries to any real degree.

 

I don't need the media to tell me their lies when I can just visit family in India and Russia to see exactly what "unradical" Islam looks like. Spoiler, it's not pretty even then. When you have people quite happily put Imam's who speak against the establishment to death, I'm gonna say Islam doesn't want to change.

 

This isn't funking Daesh. This is your everyday Muslim in those countries. Islam as it's being read today has become an enabler for this cruelty. And I won't be guilted into supporting it just because you call me a racist and a bigot. And finally, no, the Islamic community hasn't done a ton to help us with Radical Islam in the US even. That's one of the major reasons we need to start calling it Radical Islam. The only way to get them to start reporting the fringe elements is to light a fire under their asses. Islam isn't the image of the media shows? Prove it. When stuff like the Orlando shooter's wife knowing about his plans comes to light, you're gonna have to forgive me when I say peaceful Muslims aren't doing enough.

 

No offense to Dad, but I don't think the Blacks are doing enough either.

 

I choose violence. Maybe not murder, but violence is the only thing these people (Gangs, Cartels, and Terrorists) understand. And that's the only way to crush them

 

@derailing this topic into one about Islam with this post, but I felt with Scarlet throwing out accusations I needed to clarify my position

 

Sorry, but not sorry

[Dad]

No.  Black communities are not doing enough.  But we're far more active than anyone outside of our communities is, looking in telling us "oh you're doing this wrong".  The point is moot.

[a bad post]

Except he man has done more to decrease drug and human trafficking in 6 weeks than the rest of Asia has done in decades.

 

Results speak. And ends justify the means in his eyes probs

It's funny that while we're both LGBT, we have radically different ideas on what's dangerous to us and not

He's funking murdering people I don't understand how any part of this could be considered ok in your eyes. Not only that, but he's threatening members of the media that dare speak out against him, and there's a very obvious dynasty of corruption going on here. 

 

Like I honestly do not get how you could funking look at this and be like "well he got results lol". Since when has funking drug trafficking been justification for a death sentence. Especially since most of the people getting murdered are low income people using drug money to try and make ends meet. This a ridiculously crass disregard for human life, and honestly sickening that we are debating over it

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

No.  Black communities are not doing enough.  But we're far more active than anyone outside of our communities is, looking in telling us "oh you're doing this wrong".  The point is moot.

 

Like I said that's the only language these people understand. There's too much money involved for them be ensnared by the Judicial system, and there's too many people profiting from it to want it to stop. Communication is key, now speak their language. Round up the community. The Dad who's daughter was killed by a stray bullet. The mother whose son was pulled into the business to make means end. You deserve better. Take back what you deserve. Nobody is coming to save you. Not Trump, not Clinton, not Bernie. Duterte has the right idea in giving the power to the people to deal with the mess that's hurting them. All he's doing is publishing documents listing complacent government officials, and not punishing people who want justice

He's funking murdering people I don't understand how any part of this could be considered ok in your eyes. Not only that, but he's threatening members of the media that dare speak out against him, and there's a very obvious dynasty of corruption going on here. 

 

Like I honestly do not get how you could funking look at this and be like "well he got results lol". Since when has funking drug trafficking been justification for a death sentence. Especially since most of the people getting murdered are low income people using drug money to try and make ends meet. This a ridiculously crass disregard for human life, and honestly sickening that we are debating over it

That's just it, he's not murdering anyone really. He's letting the people who have been destroyed by the trade and traffic finally have the power to deal with the use. Who do you think makes up this extra-judiciary force

 

Hint, start with "Civil", ends with "ians"

 

I'm not supporting the Murder, but I'm supporting the approach and outcome..which is pretty much what I've said from the start 

[Icy]

Brb, learning to speak to ja'mon for when I go to Jamaica. Since its the only language they understand.

 

• Man without law will create his own law. It is the nature of things. Whether the law was the spoken word or written in scrolls. It has always been.
• Man with law understands what his freedoms are among his fellow men.
• There is nothing you deserve that another man deserves as well.
• You deserve neither freedom, nor justice, nor food nor homes.
• What you deserve is the right to live and see another day.

 

Despite my post, I do believe that Duetitties is at an infringement upon the right to live and thus in great wrong. On the same token, I believe that you White are wrong as well given what is said above. Unless communication is yet again at fault.

[a bad post]

Have you ever read The Crucible, because that's basically where this all ends. Remember kids vigilante justice only ends well in the movies. Also I forgot to make this point earlier, but you said that nobody no matter how wealthy should be exempt from this, but like did you even read the whole article, because there's very obvious nepotism going on here not to mention the politcal corruption favoring the rich and powerful... so really the only people this is going to hurt are the poor...

 

 

Also it doesn't matter if the people decide they don't like him in a couple of months. He's already threatening the media that they are not above assassination if they speak ill about him. The man already has his own personal gestapo. Men like this don't leave power. They don't step down. They take that power and never let go.

[Dad]

"I choose violence."

 

"I'm not supporting murder." 

 

Pick one.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

"I choose violence."

 

"I'm not supporting murder." 

 

Pick one.

They're not mutually exclusive. 

[Dad]

Winter, let me ask you something.

 

What world do you live in that, "black people should just resort to violence to take back their neighborhoods" where that makes any ounce of sense?  Do you understand what you're saying?  You're asking black people--in the current day in times where our every movement and moment is monitored--to rise up with violence and start killing our own people (drug dealers, gang members etc) to "take back our neighborhoods".  And yet, you've said more than once that black people need to "solve black on black crime" first if they expect "progress".  So you're advocating violence against our people, while asking us to find peace, and justifying our deaths by saying it's all our fault.

 

Martin Luther King Jr. said, "The riot is the voice of the unheard."  But I can bet my broke ass you don't know the rest of that quote.  "My hope is that it will be non-violent.  I would hope that we can avoid riots, because riots are self-defeating and socially destructive.  I would hope that we can avoid riots, but that we would be as militant and as determined next summer and through the winter as we have been this summer."

 

He understood why we riot, but he never approved of it.  You're asking us to incite violence to promote peace, while asking us to stop the violence.  You are purposely pushing a "catch-22" scenario claiming how much you know and understand the plight of the black neighborhood, when in reality, you are as confused as any other man who does not live it.  Stop it.

 

---

 

And in order to keep this debate in line, drop it all together.  Refer further discussion of Black on Black crime, BLM, etc, to this thread.  I'm asking nicely, once.  I won't hesitate to lock this if the discussion continues to derail.

 

The topic at hand is in reference to the purging of criminals in the Philippines.  Keep it that way.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

*shrugs*

 

Violence for peace is still for peace

 

The Gov had a chance, many to fix the Drug problem, they failed. A man is willing to let the people fix the problem to the best of their ability. It's working. For now. The people are loyal to themselves. Not the man. All he is, is the greenlight. 

 

@Elly

 

Press isn't exactly objective these days now is it. Regardless the difference here is that unlike the Gestapo, the citizens are using the man to get to an end. Hitler used the Gestapo to get to his end. But yeah I have read the crucible, doesn't seem similar to whats going on here. Accusing someone of witchcraft because they floated is a little different than finding the man who has been selling your children laced Heroin. JS

 

Civilian intervention is needed, I happen to think that the situation has gotten so bad that the intervention need to be vigilantism to a degree. Not murder. I'm not and never will support that. But it's pretty sad you guys are supporting the people who selfishly throw entire generations under buses for their own profit.

 

Not sure how many of you have had drug problems, or how many of you have family members who have had drug problems, but the outage the people feel here isn't wrong at all

Winter, let me ask you something.

 

What world do you live in that, "black people should just resort to violence to take back their neighborhoods" where that makes any ounce of sense?  Do you understand what you're saying?  You're asking black people--in the current day in times where our every movement and moment is monitored--to rise up with violence and start killing our own people (drug dealers, gang members etc) to "take back our neighborhoods".  And yet, you've said more than once that black people need to "solve black on black crime" first if they expect "progress".  So you're advocating violence against our people, while asking us to find peace, and justifying our deaths by saying it's all our fault.

 

Martin Luther King Jr. said, "The riot is the voice of the unheard."  But I can bet my broke ass you don't know the rest of that quote.  "My hope is that it will be non-violent.  I would hope that we can avoid riots, because riots are self-defeating and socially destructive.  I would hope that we can avoid riots, but that we would be as militant and as determined next summer and through the winter as we have been this summer."

 

He understood why we riot, but he never approved of it.  You're asking us to incite violence to promote peace, while asking us to stop the violence.  You are purposely pushing a "catch-22" scenario claiming how much you know and understand the plight of the black neighborhood, when in reality, you are as confused as any other man who does not live it.  Stop it.

 

---

 

And in order to keep this debate in line, drop it all together.  Refer further discussion of Black on Black crime, BLM, etc, to this thread.  I'm asking nicely, once.  I won't hesitate to lock this if the discussion continues to derail.

 

The topic at hand is in reference to the purging of criminals in the Philippines.  Keep it that way.

Look man, all I see is report after report of some black child getting caught in the crossfire between two gangs. Killing isn't needed, but something drastic needs to happen if want change. You tell me what that is (on the other thread)

 

But yes, I think if the Black Community by large took a major stand with the police and helped rout the gangs, it would do marvels for the public image of the blacks. Will people get hurt? Yes. That's the violence you're going to have to take for things to get better.

[Dad]

*shrugs*

 

Violence for peace is still for peace

 

The Gov had a chance, many to fix the Drug problem, they failed. A man is willing to let the people fix the problem to the best of their ability. It's working. For now. The people are loyal to themselves. Not the man. All he is, is the greenlight. 

 

@Elly

 

Press isn't exactly objective these days now is it. Regardless the difference here is that unlike the Gestapo, the citizens are using the man to get to an end. Hitler used the Gestapo to get to his end. But yeah I have read the crucible, doesn't seem similar to whats going on here. Accusing someone of witchcraft because they floated is a little different than finding the man who has been selling your children laced Heroin. JS

 

Civilian intervention is needed, I happen to think that the situation has gotten so bad that the intervention need to be vigilantism to a degree. Not murder. I'm not and never will support that. But it's pretty sad you guys are supporting the people who selfishly throw entire generations under buses for their own profit.

 

Not sure how many of you have had drug problems, or how many of you have family members who have had drug problems, but the outage the people feel here isn't wrong at all

Look man, all I see is report after report of some black child getting caught in the crossfire between two gangs. Killing isn't needed, but something drastic needs to happen if want change. You tell me what that is (on the other thread)

 

But yes, I think if the Black Community by large took a major stand with the police and helped rout the gangs, it would do marvels for the public image of the blacks. Will people get hurt? Yes. That's the violence you're going to have to take for things to get better.

 

Not advocating for their immediate deaths doesn't mean we support them.  It means we don't support murder.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Not advocating for their immediate deaths doesn't mean we support them.  It means we don't support murder.

Nobody is advocating for their deaths here that I've seen 

[Dad]

Nobody is advocating for their deaths here that I've seen 

 

You literally equated their deaths with progress.