Cuba/US Relations

[cr47t]

Was just thinking to bring up a debate topic about this, seeing as Obama has visited Cuba recently (i forget why but there should be someone who can remind me) and also that Fidel is (almost) 90; http://www.cnn.com/2016/08/12/americas/cuba-fidel-castro-at-90-after-assassination-plots/

 

Anyway, I wanted to ask how we should maintain our relations with Cuba. Should we at all? Why or why not? Discuss. (I hope I put this clear but if I didn't feel free to help me put the topic in more detail.)

[Cool Girl]

 I think we should keep a good relationship with Cuba. I mean, it could help the US in their interests in the future.

[ihop]

There's really no reason not to maintain a good relationship other than outdated anti-Communist voodoo. I'm very impressed at Obama for trying to branch out, though sadly it seems neither Clinton nor Trump will make such an effort.

 

There really is very little downside to bringing Cuba back in from the cold - the country has a lot to offer.

[Halubaris Maphotika]

Obama can shove off.

 

He had an opportunity to ease relations between the two countries and instead makes a stomach churning speech about having "Hope for the future" of the countries relations. Not once did he apologize for the absolutely atrocious injustices committed against Cuba by the United States, he didn't even have the funking balls to visit Fidel himself. Honestly, if you're the President of the United States and you visit Cuba to foster better relations and ease tensions, you visit Fidel Castro. The fact he didn't, and refused to acknowledge the crimes committed against Cuba by the US, shows he doesn't give a flying funk about Cuba and never did. He just wants to spread his industries into Cuba and infect it with the same disease killing this country.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Obama can shove off.

 

He had an opportunity to ease relations between the two countries and instead makes a stomach churning speech about having "Hope for the future" of the countries relations. Not once did he apologize for the absolutely atrocious injustices committed against Cuba by the United States, he didn't even have the funking balls to visit Fidel himself. Honestly, if you're the President of the United States and you visit Cuba to foster better relations and ease tensions, you visit Fidel Castro. The fact he didn't, and refused to acknowledge the crimes committed against Cuba by the US, shows he doesn't give a flying funk about Cuba and never did. He just wants to spread his industries into Cuba and infect it with the same disease killing this country.

Obama only apologizes to counties that take an unrepentant sheet on the US. Cuba doesn't qualify

 

What were you expecting? Genuine deplomacy over a photo-op to trigger the GOP. Get real. Obama doesn't give two hoots about Cuba, it was a brilliant tactical dung bomb aimed at GOP dimwits

 

Remember the "reset" with Russia? Remeber Lybia? Shaking hands with Ghaddafi one month, laughing over pics of his corpse a few later.

 

Lower your expectations

[Halubaris Maphotika]

Obama only apologizes to counties that take an unrepentant sheet on the US. Cuba doesn't qualify

 

What were you expecting? Remeber the "reset" with Russia? Remeber Lybia? Shaking hands with Ghaddafi one month, laughing over pics of his corpse a few later.

 

Lower your expectations

It's still disrespectful.

[Aerion Brightflame]

You mean Obama tries to appear strong to the countries where he has the leeway to, and doesn't needlessly butt-heads with nations like China and Russia and Korea? My God he's a horrible politician for not trying to aggravate the only nations in the world who rival the US and could be a conceivable threat. For keeping stability in the US and the world because the last thing anyone wants is the US and Russia posturing like it's the new Cold War?  

 

I'm not especially well versed in US-Cuba atrocities outside of like the Bay of Pigs, but if I had to take a guess he didn't make a public apology because doing so opens up the US in legal terms. He admits fault by apologising, and suddenly the families of those who suffered at the hands of the US can sue the US government for money. I've no idea if that's true or not, Obama might actually be an uncaring dick (I doubt it, but it's possible) but generally nations aren't especially happy to admit to wetwork and murder even when it's public knowledge. Or hell even just pissing off all the other nations that feel wronged by the US and want an apology now?

 

And on Castro - Do you have proof them not meeting was on Obama and not Castro? Maybe Castro told Obama to flat out f*** off when asking to arrange it? 

 

I know that hating Obama is cool and popular, but international politics ain't exactly an easy kettle of fish.

[vla1ne]

not sure if i can frame this properly, but here goes:

 

 

 

obama has no need to fear a war between any of those countries short of shooting their people. the reset with russia was indeed the wisest move, because it gained us an ally, but to be honest, there's no need to ally with china or russia so long as we don't actively oppose them (leave them be, they leave you be). butting heads isn't always needed either, but the occasional hardline is a good way to ensure you aren't trampled on by said countries politically when push comes to shove. china, russia, and america all have enough military power to genocide humanity at least 3 times over. if any of these three started a war, the world at large would be dragged in, whether they liked it or not. as such, none of these three powers would likely gamble on such damage. russia is powerful, but them and china combined would not be a guaranteed match against america's full military power at this point. our military money is spread across the world, were either of those countries, or indeed both of them, to fight america, they would stand to lose as much, if not more than they had to gain. and on the other side of that coin, america, while definitely capable of winning against either country, would be hard pressed to put up a good fight were other contenders to come out of the woodwork. if any of the 3 were to fight, all participants would most likely be drained heavily by the end of it, if not b completely wiped out. obama antagonizing them sholud not, and would not, be enough to provoke even a cold war stance so long as all leaders understood the risks of fighting. cooperation is still the best route imo, but opposition wouldn't be game ending either.

 

 

yes, they could incur lawsuits for damages, but after taking the loss, the US would at least have grounds to say that we've made peace, with our old mistakes, instead of running from them. (which would do wonders for our claim of being a "great country") a proper argument against such a move though, would probably be that while we can seemingly afford it, before we make any move towards paying back others, we have to fix our own system, that way we could better withstand the financial strain of whatever backlash may come.

 

 

our congress can't be trusted to come to an agreement on anything as it stands, if we took such a financial blow at this point in time from those who would likely sue for damages, while it wouldn't kill america, it would definitely weaken it enough something unexpected to come out of the woodworks and finish us off. we have nothing to lose physically from abandoning cuba, but at the same time, losing cuba in such a way would be a blow any positive moral argument relating to america.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

What are you guys talking about? Obama has done nothing but tick off Russia and China...you know two countries that could actually end up harming the US. He's getting all cozy with Cuba but then goes around shitting on Russia and China. 

 

I'm not shitting on Obama because it's cool, I'm saying he botched the reset and made it worse than ever

 

I'm criticizing Obama for being all chummy with Lybia then turning around and ruining the Middle East

 

I don't enjoy my president being a joke, but that's what we've got

[vla1ne]

What are you guys talking about? Obama has done nothing but tick off Russia and China...you know two countries that could actually end up harming the US. He's getting all cozy with Cuba but then goes around shitting on Russia and China. 

 

I'm not shitting on Obama because it's cool, I'm saying he botched the reset and made it worse than ever

 

I'm criticizing Obama for being all chummy with Lybia then turning around and ruining the Middle East

 

I don't enjoy my president being a joke, but that's what we've got

I was under the impression that he'd been actually working towards improving relations with russia... damn, i'm way off on that. i knew he was pissing off china, but then again, china and america aren't likely to see eye to eye on much regardless, as for him fixing things up with cuba, that's actually not to bad of a move, it's not needed, but avoiding a repeat of the cold war, (where russia got missiles on cuba a country that's uncomfortably close to america where missiles are concerned) is not so undesirable an action. there's not too many positives, but i'd say that's a worthy one.

 

the deal in the middle east was botched by all accounts from all sides, that much i agree with, but my own opinion is that we leave and send money and weapons to the countries we support in the region. give them what they need to sort it out and rinse our hands of such matters where we can.

[cr47t]

Bumping in the wake of the US 2016 election and Fidel Castro's death. What do you people think these two issues mean for both of the countries going forward?

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

President Elect Trump and influential GOP senators have made clear that unless Raul is willing to change a bit, they're out. Cuban "communism" if you can call it that isn't really my cup of tea given how it's turned out