What does General need? What should General be like? What should a General moderator do?

[Aix]

Answer the above questions please.

 

Do we just need an active peacekeeper in your opinion?

 

Or someone out to do things and make changes?

 

What's your idea for an ideal General section?

[towitori]

burn it down imo

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

No

 

Not really, more make it more like it is now. Discussions seemingly end up just being Flame, Vla1ne, and me giving life to the discssion. We need an objective mod to kick some other discussions to a start

 

 

We need someone who's not passive and willing to wade into the fray often. Only one person has survived the round 1 discssion who fits that discription. And that's dad

[Halubaris Maphotika]

Peacekeeper? Yes. Biased individual who can't take dissenting opinions? No.

 

No changes needed.

 

What it is right now.

[Aix]

No

 

Not really, more make it more like it is now. Discussions seemingly end up just being Flame, Vla1ne, and me giving life to the discssion. We need an objective mod to kick some other discussions to a start

 

 

We need someone who's not passive and willing to wade into the fray often. Only one person has survived the round 1 discssion who fits that discription. And that's dad

Why do we even need another mod if there isn't much to be done aside from just getting more activity? Why do we need this opinionated and brave mod to encourage more activity?

[Halubaris Maphotika]

Why do we even need another mod if there isn't much to be done aside from just getting more activity? Why do we need this opinionated and brave mod to encourage more activity?

We need more mods because we had a huge deficit with inactive mods, this has been slightly resolved though.

 

I do disagree with Winter in this regard. I don't mind them getting involved in the debate to their own volition, but too opinionated of a mod creates deep problems. A perfect example of opinionated mods would have to be Mihail Tals, Crab Helmet (Original), and Icy. If a mod could replicate those mods in terms of unbiasness and general attentiveness, then there you go.

[Dad]

So, I feel like General is untamed.  But it's a super unique section in that most other sections are really well tamed for their single topic of discussion.  General--in my opinion--does not necessarily need a peacekeeper.  That's a mod's baseline description.  You stick someone in there just to break up fights, and you won't get much out of General.  You need someone who can handle both points of argument and keep things civil.  Not someone who's just going to show up, hand out warnings, and walk-off.

 

General should not be based solely on the merit of "gentle, tame" discussions.  But that's why "Debates" was restored.  We wanted the discussions that generate more personal opinion and drew attention away from the staggering "that was nice of them" or "man that's pretty sad" posts.  What you need is more of what "Debates" brings to the table.  Discussion that generates opinions from both points of view from a broad span of topics.  General has provenby itself that it can hold arguments.  But it's still a matter of keeping that discussion going.  

 

Naturally discussion will die after some time.  That's always going to happen.  But I would love to have Debate's massive, lengthy discussions and lend it to the front of General to sort of expand the base of it.  Small thoughts.

[Nathanael D. Striker]

Answer the above questions please.

 

Do we just need an active peacekeeper in your opinion?

 

Or someone out to do things and make changes?

 

What's your idea for an ideal General section?

 

1. For General proper, that is perhaps the more important thing it needs. Acting as peacekeeper (which involves moving more heated discussion/debates to Debates where such a thing can flourish) and bringing up interesting non-debate topics for discussion. Ultimately, this involves bringing up interesting news stories for discussion or life experiences that can bring discussion to it. Between General and Debates, General is the easier one of the two, though that can easily deceive people given the possibility of it getting too heated for General proper.

 

2.  Debates; on the other hand, is the section that needs an active hand. Being a full on Devil's Advocate is not mandatory imo, though is can be needed when some debates aren't getting the necessary attention. There have been debates that I've proposed (the Death with Dignity debate for example) that I have posed additional questions to people to dig deeper into their beliefs. Arguing the opposite side of the issue can help a debate progress, but questioning people's beliefs about a topic and pushing them to challenge those beliefs is possible even in when both people agree. The reason behind this is to see why that person believes what they believe and bringing a different perspective from the same side so they can compare their thoughts to someone else's.

 

3. I feel like people are forgetting about Clubs and Organizations here. It has become a forgotten section for the most part as no one really talks about it. Yes, Skype and Discord practically supplant what Clubs and Organizations used to be; however, it still needs a guiding hand. This is where an event organizer comes into play; an event organizer can bring the different clubs together in an overarching event. I remember one Christmas where the clubs did a "decorate the door" event where each club decorated their respective OPs with Christmas decorations with a prize going to the club that did the best work. Another idea can be having clubs select representatives for a multi-club game of BGO or CAH. Perhaps Pokemon Showdown if enough people are into it.

 

4. A General/Debates/Clubs and Organizations Mod should know when to sit back and when to act. With General, the former is more appropriate is most circumstances. With Debates and C/O, the latter is more appropriate. Though as Night talked about in the C/S thread, whoever is selected should be a integral part of the forum itself. And perhaps the best niche a General/Debates/Clubs and Organizations Mod can fulfill is the job of Event Organizer as the bigger events tend to pass through General/Polls.

 

There are a good portion of my thoughts. Ask questions as needed if I didn't touch upon something or if something needs more elaboration, please.

[Halubaris Maphotika]

2.  Debates; on the other hand, is the section that needs an active hand. Being a full on Devil's Advocate is not mandatory imo, though is can be needed when some debates aren't getting the necessary attention. There have been debates that I've proposed (the Death with Dignity debate for example) that I have posed additional questions to people to dig deeper into their beliefs. Arguing the opposite side of the issue can help a debate progress, but questioning people's beliefs about a topic and pushing them to challenge those beliefs is possible even in when both people agree. The reason behind this is to see why that person believes what they believe and bringing a different perspective from the same side so they can compare their thoughts to someone else's.

Fine. As long as they don't start imposing unnecessary rules and monitoring everyone's posts.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Why do we even need another mod if there isn't much to be done aside from just getting more activity? Why do we need this opinionated and brave mod to encourage more activity?

Cause the minute either Tom or I, leave the section dies. Vla1ne is busy IRL right now. You can have the section just be the three of us debating over something cause it's never gonna grow like that

 

Case in point. The brexit thread. It's live in the morning before I go to work, and it'll be live now that I'm back home. In the middle, Tom will reply to my post, and there's a good 8-9 hours where nothing gets done.

 

Other threads are honestly worse. Dad has is battle in the section and has been able to work on either side of the argument. I stand by my original two recs as well, but for reasons they explained it was not to be so

[Nathanael D. Striker]

Fine. As long as they don't start imposing unnecessary rules and monitoring everyone's posts.

 

And I don't plan on that. Debates should be allowed to flourish primarily unhindered, though there are those rare exceptions for when a debate becomes more combative and less argumentative. Remember, Debates are supposed to allow people the opportunity to express and defend their beliefs about a particular topic. I'm sure you agree with that to an extent, correct?

[Aix]

I'm up for having a Debates mod for slapping people around in there.

 

Otherwise, it seems we just should get some program going to get regular posts in General?

 

As for Clubs and Organizations, just because we have the section doesn't mean we need to make great use of it. I don't see a great demand for it, so any action there is unnecessary as far as I'm concerned.

[Simping For Hina]

1. For General proper, that is perhaps the more important thing it needs. Acting as peacekeeper (which involves moving more heated discussion/debates to Debates where such a thing can flourish) and bringing up interesting non-debate topics for discussion. Ultimately, this involves bringing up interesting news stories for discussion or life experiences that can bring discussion to it. Between General and Debates, General is the easier one of the two, though that can easily deceive people given the possibility of it getting too heated for General proper.

 

2.  Debates; on the other hand, is the section that needs an active hand. Being a full on Devil's Advocate is not mandatory imo, though is can be needed when some debates aren't getting the necessary attention. There have been debates that I've proposed (the Death with Dignity debate for example) that I have posed additional questions to people to dig deeper into their beliefs. Arguing the opposite side of the issue can help a debate progress, but questioning people's beliefs about a topic and pushing them to challenge those beliefs is possible even in when both people agree. The reason behind this is to see why that person believes what they believe and bringing a different perspective from the same side so they can compare their thoughts to someone else's.

 

3. I feel like people are forgetting about Clubs and Organizations here. It has become a forgotten section for the most part as no one really talks about it. Yes, Skype and Discord practically supplant what Clubs and Organizations used to be; however, it still needs a guiding hand. This is where an event organizer comes into play; an event organizer can bring the different clubs together in an overarching event. I remember one Christmas where the clubs did a "decorate the door" event where each club decorated their respective OPs with Christmas decorations with a prize going to the club that did the best work. Another idea can be having clubs select representatives for a multi-club game of BGO or CAH. Perhaps Pokemon Showdown if enough people are into it.

 

4. A General/Debates/Clubs and Organizations Mod should know when to sit back and when to act. With General, the former is more appropriate is most circumstances. With Debates and C/O, the latter is more appropriate. Though as Night talked about in the C/S thread, whoever is selected should be a integral part of the forum itself. And perhaps the best niche a General/Debates/Clubs and Organizations Mod can fulfill is the job of Event Organizer as the bigger events tend to pass through General/Polls.

 

There are a good portion of my thoughts. Ask questions as needed if I didn't touch upon something or if something needs more elaboration, please.

I honestly feel that general doesn't need any of this from a Mod. This is exactly what people should be talking about, and people already bring this up in the forum. General needs more of an overlooking member, a guide that does nothing until needed. The section doesn't need activity. It doesn't need a voice of the other side. People all do this for themselves. General is the most put forth section on the forum, because everyone has something to say and wants to say exactly that. The general mod should do exactly as Rai has done, and just clear up false information and give repercussions to those who get too out of hand. They should direct the flow of conversation back to its original concept when it gets out of hand.

 

General just needs guidance, not an increase in activity, and not a mod playing the "opposing voice, devil's advocate" when it comes to opinions. Only when it comes to facts.

[Nathanael D. Striker]

I'm up for having a Debates mod for slapping people around in there.

 

Otherwise, it seems we just should get some program going to get regular posts in General?

 

As for Clubs and Organizations, just because we have the section doesn't mean we need to make great use of it. I don't see a great demand for it, so any action there is unnecessary as far as I'm concerned.

 

So you just want to ignore Clubs and Organizations? That doesn't sound like a very good idea to me tbh. You want comradery in C/O and some pride to fight for? Then C/O could use some attention. I am willing to give that section the attention is deserves. And believe me, it'd make things interesting to say the least.

I honestly feel that general doesn't need any of this from a Mod. This is exactly what people should be talking about, and people already bring this up in the forum. General needs more of an overlooking member, a guide that does nothing until needed. The section doesn't need activity. It doesn't need a voice of the other side. People all do this for themselves. General is the most put forth section on the forum, because everyone has something to say and wants to say exactly that. The general mod should do exactly as Rai has done, and just clear up false information and give repercussions to those who get too out of hand. They should direct the flow of conversation back to its original concept when it gets out of hand.

 

General just needs guidance, not an increase in activity, and not a mod playing the "opposing voice, devil's advocate" when it comes to opinions. Only when it comes to facts.

 

I hope you read carefully and noticed that I separated General and Debates for the purpose of answering the questions. What I discussed with General is essentially what you are saying, and the questioning beliefs part is what I discussed with Debates.

[Dad]

Cause the minute either Tom or I, leave the section dies. Vla1ne is busy IRL right now. You can have the section just be the three of us debating over something cause it's never gonna grow like that

 

Case in point. The brexit thread. It's live in the morning before I go to work, and it'll be live now that I'm back home. In the middle, Tom will reply to my post, and there's a good 8-9 hours where nothing gets done.

 

Other threads are honestly worse. Dad has is battle in the section and has been able to work on either side of the argument. I stand by my original two recs as well, but for reasons they explained it was not to be so

 

It's hard to draw a larger crowd to debates because a number of YCM's members who visit General are there for the laid back, consensus discussions on YCM.  That's what the front of General is most of the time.  Just a bunch of people nodding their heads in agreement.  There's nothing actually happening.  But it's not all bad because that's (for the most part, not in regards to outright spam posts or things that should generally belong in Misc) is meant for.  To share pictures.  Talk about the weekend.  Discuss holidays.  But if you're looking for ways to generate post count in the front of General, you'd have to outright force Debates back into General.  And that should not be the case.  

 

At this point, neither section needs heavy modding in terms of handling members.  But if Debates is generating so much steam, run with it.  Get yourself a mod to bring daily discussion and fuel the Debates train.  Because when you're on the front of the Forum boards and you read that a topic has just been posted or replied to in General, you don't know if it's a debate or not (not right away usually).  If nothing else, fueling Debates generates traffic for General.  Creating traffic for General should naturally lead to more front page General discussion.

 

Keep the modding of topics in Debates light, but keep the posts civil (keeping direct attacks to an absolute minimum and cutting down on purposeful shitposting).  Participate in the Debates themselves and you'll see General flourish.

[Simping For Hina]

So you just want to ignore Clubs and Organizations? That doesn't sound like a very good idea to me tbh. You want comradery in C/O and some pride to fight for? Then C/O could use some attention. I am willing to give that section the attention is deserves. And believe me, it'd make things interesting to say the least.

C&O has been a dead forum for a while, and making more clubs that do nothing it just going to make a mess. What attention would you give it that would promote activity when it, as you said, became nothing more than a subpar excuse for a chat room?

So you just want to ignore Clubs and Organizations? That doesn't sound like a very good idea to me tbh. You want comradery in C/O and some pride to fight for? Then C/O could use some attention. I am willing to give that section the attention is deserves. And believe me, it'd make things interesting to say the least.

 

I hope you read carefully and noticed that I separated General and Debates for the purpose of answering the questions. What I discussed with General is essentially what you are saying, and the questioning beliefs part is what I discussed with Debates.

Debate is the same thing as General, just more focused and more intense. It still only needs guidance, exactly how you would in General, but with more of a serious attachment and watch of how things work out.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

I'm up for having a Debates mod for slapping people around in there.

 

Otherwise, it seems we just should get some program going to get regular posts in General?

Define slapping people around. Cause that usually devolves into a person forcing people into their viewpoint

 

The system for more activity is a mod who is willing to understand. By this I mean a mod should try to keep an open view, analyze both (or more) view points. And be able to support any one of them by removing himself from the discussion.

 

The mod should also be someone who has pull with the community. Enough to pull people into the section. The mod needs a thick skin, and should be willing to get into the mud with the others, but at the same time stay above it all.

 

Dad has exemplified all of that. He's gotten in to the thick of the Election thread. He's gotten into the Islam thread. He recused himself from the Jesuits because he felt his objectivity was compromised. 

 

He's well liked, and he's willing to embrace both sides if arguments are based on objectivity. I didn't suggest him because I didn't want to burden him with something I thought he didn't want. But if he thinks he's up for the task, he's atleast proven himself enough to be granted a chance

 

For the record that reason I suggested two people be mods is it's less stressful for a team of center-right and center-left (who have respect and understanding with each other) to delve into their respective sides. One person getting an understand of both it just difficult. It wasn't meant as a slight to Dad at all in case anyone is gonna be like "Winter, why didn't you suggest Dad to start then"

[Simping For Hina]

Am I just seeing myself agreeing with Winter over the course of how this forum should change? Never thought I would see the day that happened. It is really funny, especially since we're the most pushed to be on the YCM No Fly list.

[Nathanael D. Striker]

C&O has been a dead forum for a while, and making more clubs that do nothing it just going to make a mess. What attention would you give it that would promote activity when it, as you said, became nothing more than a subpar excuse for a chat room?

Debate is the same thing as General, just more focused and more intense. It still only needs guidance, exactly how you would in General, but with more of a serious attachment and watch of how things work out.

 

1. I'm more of offering things that can differentiate Clubs and Organizations from chatrooms. The club activity that Mugen laid out is a good start, though I'd like to see different clubs and groups interact with each other. Should Clubs and Organizations be a main priority? Not really, though to completely forget about it is foolish tbh.

 

2. Not necessarily, As Dad put it, General is more for the consensus topics where there aren't really any points of disagreement. Debates is meant to test beliefs imo, and that requires a more active hand to facilitate debates. This is the difference that General and Debates require different things.

 

[Simping For Hina]

1. I'm more of offering things that can differentiate Clubs and Organizations from chatrooms. The club activity that Mugen laid out is a good start, though I'd like to see different clubs and groups interact with each other. Should Clubs and Organizations be a main priority? Not really, though to completely forget about it is foolish tbh.

 

2. Not necessarily, As Dad put it, General is more for the consensus topics where there aren't really any points of disagreement. Debates is meant to test beliefs imo, and that requires a more active hand to facilitate debates. This is the difference that General and Debates require different things.

The problem I have with everything your suggesting, is that you're doing nothing to offer the forum something different. You're offering the same things that have already been here, and that other people could probably do better as they already have their foot in the door and you just have the Leaderboard and the YCMB, which aren't that encouraging of history. You don't participate enough in debates, and you have been know to get hot-headed and seek validation from others because you want to be something more, instead of showing that you are. You look to everything to give you a claim to fame without putting yourself forward through practice for things you're considering to be a part of.

 

Mugen didn't really increase activity in C&O. If anything, he killed it. Simply because it turned from a chatroom to something that needed to be more than just fun, a way to organize the community beyond their subforums. And that is when it went to die, because no one wanted that. That is why chatrooms thrive, because it is another place where people can be totally serious and completely foolish, just because that is what they do. That is what Clubs will do if they were active. Nothing has made the Clubs active since the rules were properly structured and put together, when Clubs changed from goofy to serious. They should simply because they are going to die, no matter what you do, as there are just better options that are going to be better.

 

General and Debates. I guess I got my ideas about them wrong. But you are only taking claim to something that you have put nothing behind. Striker, you're not really known for being opinionated. You're known for needing opinions about yourself and using any opportunity to bring up how "important" what you did was. How are you going to help Debates better than Dad, Aerion, Winter, or anyone else when they have exactly what you're talking about and are actively presenting themselves to be exactly what you want, someone who challenges people's opinions?

 

You're not fit to be mod, Striker. I am not trying to be harsh. I am trying to be realistic. Candidates that have been put forth offer something more than just their word to do something, they have done something to push people into higher thinking. And that is exactly what you're looking for in debates.

[mr. waifu]

This is the most serious I have seen you Dae.

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

I may have a slight crush on the "serious Dae"

 

There's a lot here and so I'm gonna sum up my thoughts briefly.

imo General needs someone who will keep discussions going, while edging the discussions away from becoming sheet with multiple spam or flame posts. They need to be able to read the tone of posts and, possibly through PM, talk to the people who are causing issues. Literally moderating. And of course they need to be able to keep discussions going when they go stagnate, but also know when to let things die.

As for C/O, being one of the few actually active Clubs...I don't see it going anywhere and that's fine. It's a good place for very specific purposes.

Which is usually Clubs that revolve around a single subject with possibility for competitions and discussion. Other than that chat rooms and other sections do it better.

 

To be quite honest I thought you, Aix, had some good threads to provoke discussion in there. But you had no follow up. That's sorta one thing I can see a mod for General doing, putting up things for discussion that most others don't think about. And keeping it going.

[Dad]

I stated it before but I'll say it again.  With the exception of threads like "Post a Pic of Yourself", these threads are going to die.  That's natural.  Follow-up is difficult, because typically in order to keep a discussion at length like the "2016 Presidential Election" thread, you have to be talking about something that will be relevant for an extended period of time.

 

Personally, I'd love to see more threads that can be casual and promote extended discussion, similar to "Post a Pic of Yourself".  And it doesn't have to be a single long thread.  They could be a popular once a week thread.  But some examples include food.  We've only talked generally about it.  I would love to see what YCM is cooking.  Take some pictures, talk about how you seasoned your food (if you did), share some feedback.  Talk about side dishes.  What goes good when paired with this main course?  What's a good substitute for some people?  

 

But these are the types of threads that generate a mass influx of discussion at one time and die a day or two later.  But you could easily see upwards of 25-50 posts IMO.  And this is generally better than what YCM puts out in most front page General topics.