Aerion Brightflame Posted June 12, 2016 Report Share Posted June 12, 2016 He didn't use the words 'radical Islam' because there are no confirmed links to radical Islam? As I wrote before - There is an alleged phone call, but nothing is confirmed yet. If he has no connections to radical Islam, using the term just means you are trying to incite an entirely different kind of reaction to what Obama probably wanted. I know it's cool to hate on Obama, but people are jumping on him over something so funking stupid. He was born in New York to Afghan parents. He has had a very loose connections to a Suicide bomber in the past, and made statements about a radical group both of which got him interviews with the FBI, but no concrete links were established on either occassion. He legally acquired firearms in the past week, and worked as a security guard, and thus had a firearms liscence in Florida. His own father has gone on the record saying this act has nothing to do with Relgion, mentioning his son got aggravated over seeing a gay couple kissing in Miami recently. Additionally he was married for two years, during which he was very abusive towards his wife before they had a divorcee. These are the facts we know about the man. He has no solid links to IS, no knowledge of travel to the middle east in recent history. There is no confirmation as to whether this was an IS attack or just a hate crime. Anything else right now is speculation - Which makes comments about Obama not referencing Radical Islam silly in my mind because there's nothing confirmed about that as of the time of him speaking. So even if it is just a reprieve for a day or so, can we not f***ing jump the gun and derail this into a talk about Islamic Fundamentalism until we have it confirmed one way or another? Because this could just be a hate crime, which is equally tragic, and a whole different set of issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tentacruel Posted June 12, 2016 Report Share Posted June 12, 2016 As much as I don't want this to turn into an Islamaphobic mess, acknowledge what is most likely the motive behind the attack and the related problems. I'm already seeing people online shifting the blame toward the political right and gun advocacy or whatever. That is funking ridiculous. Stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slinky Posted June 12, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2016 ^this, although obama called it a terror attack, it certainly feels like more of a hate crime than terrorism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerion Brightflame Posted June 12, 2016 Report Share Posted June 12, 2016 As much as I don't want this to turn into an Islamaphobic mess, acknowledge what is most likely the motive behind the attack and the related problems. I'm already seeing people online shifting the blame toward the political right and gun advocacy or whatever. That is f***ing ridiculous. Stop. A plain hate crime is also a likely motive though - Because this wasn't indiscriminate, it was specifically at a gay nightclub. The major attacks of radical Islam tend to be indiscriminate outside of already heavily Islamic countries, save for instances like Charlie Hebdo where there is a specific target in mind. Of course hate crime and Islamic extremism aren't exactly mutually exclusive, yet neither are they mutually inclusive. It is still too early in my mind just to call it an act of terror caused by radical Islam and let that narrative carry out. I would rather wait until we had more evidence before persecution begins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tentacruel Posted June 12, 2016 Report Share Posted June 12, 2016 I jumped the gun a little. We won't know for sure until more info comes out, but this looks more like a hate crime than terrorism to me as well. It seems the perp was at one point a police recruit and was known to not be a fan of gay people. I guess we'll have to wait and see what info comes out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~ P O L A R I S ~ Posted June 13, 2016 Report Share Posted June 13, 2016 This seems like more false flag bullshit propaganda but if people died then my heart goes out to their families and the perp is not worth anyone's time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow Posted June 13, 2016 Report Share Posted June 13, 2016 For one snatch is gay, so this just goes to show how eager y'all are for some blood if you're going after him for being sarcasticTo be fair a couple of the angry people don't even really know who Snatch is and let's be honest without context it doesn't sound quite sarcastic. (And they didn't really explain themselves). But I don't really care to talk about that. So you can respond if you'd like just know I don't want to continue it. Just felt like saying that as I came here REALLY late and couldn't say anything earlier. 50 people died, to one person. One person(?) managed to kill that many. That's a terrifying thought. I don't care if it could count as a hate crime, terrorism, or whatever. Just that simple fact is scary as funk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vla1ne Posted June 13, 2016 Report Share Posted June 13, 2016 well first thing's first:Clarify the comment. What's your reasoning? that is the proper response if a comment is made by somebody and you don't understand if it's humor or genuine bigotry. hunting for blood seems like a proper way to describe the rest of the statements towards it. as far as bad goes, if the second guy hadn't gotten caught, this could have easily become the largest bloodbath since 9/11. if this really was an isis attack as claimed, then that just cements the fact that undiluted islam is not a good thing. sure, tolerance towards Muslims, but this was 100% in line with the teachings. i don't have all the details of the case yet, but i do have enough to cement a few of my earlier statements relating to guns. worst way to confirm it really, but this is just a bad event overall. i don't think this'll be the end of it though. it might be delayed for a week or a month to let the heat die down, but the amount of weapons from both people was too large. there's definitely something else in the works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryusei the Morning Star Posted June 13, 2016 Report Share Posted June 13, 2016 He shouted praise to Alluh. Daesh or not, it's Islam related. The FBI questioned him multiple times before. Trump's words have proved prophetic unfortunately I have no love for Islam, my ancestors bones will attest that, I had only wished that "progressive" people (including good Muslims) would see the cancer that Islam has become Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow Posted June 13, 2016 Report Share Posted June 13, 2016 He shouted praise to Alluh. Daesh or not, it's Islam related. The FBI questioned him multiple times before. Trump's words have proved prophetic unfortunately I have no love for Islam, my ancestors bones will attest that, I had only wished that "progressive" people (including good Muslims) would see the cancer that Islam has become To be fair I could totally praise Alluh before killing someone I dislike. Doesn't make me Islamic. And even if I were doesn't make my actions related to Islam.Keep in mind it could be him trying to shift the focus to terrorism to get the reaction that was gotten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryusei the Morning Star Posted June 13, 2016 Report Share Posted June 13, 2016 To be fair I could totally praise Alluh before killing someone I dislike. Doesn't make me Islamic. And even if I were doesn't make my actions related to Islam.Keep in mind it could be him trying to shift the focus to terrorism to get the reaction that was gotten.Master Plan to get Trump Elected? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Face McShooty Posted June 13, 2016 Report Share Posted June 13, 2016 I found this on my local news' Facebook but it's about one of the victims and their family... Heartbreaking to say the leasthttp://abc7amarillo.com/news/nation-world/as-the-shootings-unfolded-a-horror-for-one-mother-via-text Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snatch Steal Posted June 13, 2016 Report Share Posted June 13, 2016 finally, these damn parental controls let me the funk in I thought Toad was gay, not a homophobe. idgiNot homophobic, just edgy. Again, I still regret it. For one snatch is gay, so this just goes to show how eager y'all are for some blood if you're going after him for being sarcastic rIGHT!??!?!!?!??!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?! I believe the perp was born and raised in the US. So I have no idea where Obama comes into this in terms of Islam and the perp. Because he had been living in the country for years before Obama even ran for office. Obama didn't bring this guy into the nation through any policy he made. I also believe as of yet there is no proof this attack had any religious motivations. There is an alleged call that NBC reported on that the perp claimed he was doing it for ISIS, but I've not seen that corroborated anywhere myself. Which means the possibility this was just a hate crime instead of islamic fundamentalism is still there. Don't quote me, but my dad said that he heard from a source that the guy said something about ISIS in a 911 call. He also said they couldn't play said call because there was death in it. It could be both a hate crime and an extremist attack. If we had Trump's Muslim ban, we might have caught this funk before he came back all Daesh'dGuns are a problem, which is why I keep saying a one time background check isn't enough. A person might be sane 4 years ago, but could crack now@Obama Our dear president AGAIN neglected to mention the words Radical Islam in fear of pissing off our "Islamic Freinds"We don't want their "condonance towards violence" or their soft words. This is a cancer in THEIR religion. Demand they clean it out and prove that it's a minority. Otherwise all I'm seeing is a movement that has allure for Muslims, even those brought up away from the more fundamental nations.You do realize dropping something like the Boston Bombers nail bomb would have killed a sheet ton too. Forget gun, if they must also go fine. But weed out the fucks who use them like this tooTrump was right. And hopefully the liberals will see that Islam=\=liberal nowEdit: As for guns: Multiple background checks a year. Keep a register. Fingerprint Guns. We have a right to bear arms. Nothing more or less. I'm also confident the guy bought guns legally (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong). And yeah, as racist as this is, I'm not fond of the extremism, and no matter how we paint it, it's technically Islamic. Judging how similar the Bible and Quran are, I'd assume their policies on odd sexuality aren't quite nice. Trump, although a bigot, is probably the shiniest (given I doubt Bernie will get past the primaries). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flinsbon Posted June 13, 2016 Report Share Posted June 13, 2016 Y'know, a lot of people and a lot of news sources keep linking gay club, Muslim shooter, Islam teaches that homosexuality is wrong, and so on. Therefore, we should fear Muslims, etc etc. What leads Muslims to believe that homosexuality is wrong? Unbeknownst to many westerners, Muslims have 3 sacred texts - (in order of creation) the Torah, the Bible, and the Quran. Now, I have never read any of these books in their entirety, nor have I read any of the Quran, but the first place that homosexuality is mentioned is in Leviticus, the third book of the Torah, later the third book of the Old Testament in the Bible. The point is, if you argue that homophobia is the reason for the attack (which it likely is, as Aerion previously pointed out) and you claim that this all stems from Islamic teachings, so he did it because he was Muslim, your logic is flawed. tl;dr If the motive behind this attack is homophobia (certainly likely), then the killer's religion is irrelevant. Had the killer been Christian or Jewish, this would not be blowing out of proportion, even though both of those religions share the same passage about homosexuality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad Posted June 13, 2016 Report Share Posted June 13, 2016 Y'know, a lot of people and a lot of news sources keep linking gay club, Muslim shooter, Islam teaches that homosexuality is wrong, and so on. Therefore, we should fear Muslims, etc etc. What leads Muslims to believe that homosexuality is wrong? Unbeknownst to many westerners, Muslims have 3 sacred texts - (in order of creation) the Torah, the Bible, and the Quran. Now, I have never read any of these books in their entirety, nor have I read any of the Quran, but the first place that homosexuality is mentioned is in Leviticus, the third book of the Torah, later the third book of the Old Testament in the Bible. The point is, if you argue that homophobia is the reason for the attack (which it likely is, as Aerion previously pointed out) and you claim that this all stems from Islamic teachings, so he did it because he was Muslim, your logic is flawed. tl;dr If the motive behind this attack is homophobia (certainly likely), then the killer's religion is irrelevant. Had the killer been Christian or Jewish, this would not be blowing out of proportion, even though both of those religions share the same passage about homosexuality. Let me straighten something up. If the reason this man as homophobic was because of his religious belief, then it is totally relevant. Further clarification. I'm a liberal. I don't wanna see a bunch of Muslim brothers and sisters attacked and put on spikes because of this event. But I'm not stupid enough to believe this had nothing to do with his religion. Fifty people from all over this great country and this world died last night because this man was taught that gays or being gay is a sin/not to be tolerated. He was taught this through his religious beliefs. And before you try to hark on the Bible again, read Hebrews 8:13. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delibirb Posted June 13, 2016 Report Share Posted June 13, 2016 Can the government employ someone to make an ASI surveillance system now, please? Privacy can take a seat, I have things I don't want people knowing, but I'd much rather the government(s) were able to be alerted of an impending terrorist attack or mass hate crime than have the sense of security we currently have, which is mostly false anyway. Whether it's Harold's Machine or Samaritan, we need to fund the next step in humanity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vla1ne Posted June 13, 2016 Report Share Posted June 13, 2016 actually, if you claim his homophobia is due to him being raised in the a family steeped in islamic traditions, your logic wouldn't be too flawed. for example, westboro baptist church, they are raised with homophobia due to the teachings of the bible, now, his homophobia might not have been influenced by his religion, he might have had it before he developed his religious beliefs, or he could be homophobic regardless, but considering he allegedly claimed his attack was for the glory of isis, or due to isis, i'm not sure which it was, here, making the connection isn't too large of a leap. had it been christian or jewish, or any other religion he'd claimed glory for while shooting, it'd remain solid logic, because the target aligns with his religion's target, and he was claiming fellowship with a group known for thair hatred of homosexuals. either way, the connection has to be examined further, but either way, his own words provide a solid basis for said assumption. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Face McShooty Posted June 13, 2016 Report Share Posted June 13, 2016 speaking of Westboro Baptist Church... Them idiots decided to put their 2 cents inhttps://twitter.com/wbcsaysrepent/status/742176600347672576 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad Posted June 13, 2016 Report Share Posted June 13, 2016 speaking of Westboro Baptist Church... Them idiots decided to put their 2 cents inhttps://twitter.com/wbcsaysrepent/status/742176600347672576 funk them. They disgrace my Lord and Savior and I'm sickened that they're apart of my country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vla1ne Posted June 13, 2016 Report Share Posted June 13, 2016 speaking of Westboro Baptist Church... Them idiots decided to put their 2 cents inhttps://twitter.com/wbcsaysrepent/status/742176600347672576I feel horrible for laughing, but what else can you do in the face of such sheer bigotry? those glorious baka at westboro. they know how to fan flames. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutant Monster RAEG-HAPYP Posted June 13, 2016 Report Share Posted June 13, 2016 I'm sickened that they're apart of my country.I think everyone, Christian or not, can agree on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Face McShooty Posted June 13, 2016 Report Share Posted June 13, 2016 Agreed, Westboro Baptist Church sickened me when they tried protesting children's funeral from the Sandy Hook massacre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slinky Posted June 13, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2016 speaking of Westboro Baptist Church... Them idiots decided to put their 2 cents inhttps://twitter.com/wbcsaysrepent/status/742176600347672576 What the actual funk is this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flinsbon Posted June 13, 2016 Report Share Posted June 13, 2016 Let me straighten something up. If the reason this man as homophobic was because of his religious belief, then it is totally relevant. Further clarification. I'm a liberal. I don't wanna see a bunch of Muslim brothers and sisters attacked and put on spikes because of this event. But I'm not stupid enough to believe this had nothing to do with his religion. Fifty people from all over this great country and this world died last night because this man was taught that gays or being gay is a sin/not to be tolerated. He was taught this through his religious beliefs. And before you try to hark on the Bible again, read Hebrews 8:13. Sorry, let me clarify, as I struggled with my wording and can see I did not correctly express what I meant. 1. If the reason he was homophobic was his religion, then the fact that he followed one of the 3 Abrahamic religions is important. What isn't important is that it was Islam, rather than Christianity or Judaism. 2. I am fully aware of Hebrews 8:13. My post was in reference to those who choose to overlook this statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Face McShooty Posted June 13, 2016 Report Share Posted June 13, 2016 They're just being the bigots they are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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