Generation Duels [New Official Format]

[Neutrality Man]

So, Konami just announced a new format to go alongside Advanced Format. It allows you to choose a deck that matches the Forbidden & Limited List of your favorite era of Yu-Gi-Oh! and pit it against other eras of the Trading Card Game.

 

 

The List you use ONLY applies to you, by the way. Yata-Lock can face DDT can face Cat Quasar can face Full-Power Merlanteans can face Kozmo in this format.

 

Info Page: http://www.yugioh-card.com/en/events/generationduel.html

 

Quick Summaries:

 

DM: No Extra Deck, Pendulums, or Rituals, Minimal effect monsters. Original Print text applies. (Hello Yata-Lock)

 

GX: Triple Stratos, Triple Disc Commander, TRIPLE SUPER POLYMERIZATION No Ritual, Pendulums, Synchro, or Xyz. Only GX Era Fusions.

 

5Ds: Loops. Loops Everywhere. NO Ritual, Fusion, Pends or Xyz

 

ZeXaL: Shock-Lock No Ritual, Fusions Syncs or Pends

 

ARC-V: Advanced Format. Today's list. Only place to use Rituals and Pends

[goodfusion]

It seems like a really awesome idea, but the banlists seem really weird. Like not being able to use Thousand-Eyes Restrict with the DM era banlist or Dragon Rulers not existing in Zexal.

 

EDIT: No Mind Master in 5Ds. :(

[Neutrality Man]

It seems like a really awesome idea, but the banlists seem really weird. Like not being able to use Thousand-Eyes Restrict with the DM era banlist or Dragon Rulers not existing in Zexal.

 

EDIT: No Mind Master in 5Ds. :(

Probably best they stay dead until that "and/or Dragon-type" is removed from their effects

[◇ Void ◇]

I don't understand axing all rituals from the DM list. I mean, Black Luster Soldier, Relinquished and Shinato, King of a Higher Plane where ace cards in famous duels of the original series. Fusions I can understand as they were GX’s thing… but no Blue Eyes Ultimate Dragon? No Dark Paladin?

 

Also, I’m sure my Eternal Soul deck design, with a couple of adjustments, would work with DM.

[Neutrality Man]

I don't understand axing all rituals from the DM list. I mean, Black Luster Soldier, Relinquished and Shinato, King of a Higher Plane where ace cards in famous duels of the original series. Fusions I can understand as they were GX’s thing… but no Blue Eyes Ultimate Dragon? No Dark Paladin?

 

Also, I’m sure my Eternal Soul deck design, with a couple of adjustments, would work with DM.

Me either, I think "All other Effect Monsters" axes all the stupid rituals indirectly.

[Just Crouton]

This actually sounds awesome.

[Mysty]

While I recognize that this is a competitive format, I like the idea in that it helps add additional restrictions for helping to build casual decks based on eras without having to strictly adhere to 'play cards only from this era'. I'd rather see the original era being able to play non-Effect Ritual monsters, though.

EDIT: Just read that the original era can use cards pre-errata. This opens up a HUGE can of worms. Again, fine for casual, but tournament-wise, this sounds rough.

[Premier Alexander Romanov]

So are there any actual changes to the Advanced Format list, or is it just the same as it was 3 months ago?

[Maeriberii Haan]

So are there any actual changes to the Advanced Format list, or is it just the same as it was 3 months ago?

 

Exactly the same. This is just a new format-thing kind of thing. Think of it like Traditional with a different spin.

 

I wonder if they'll host big events with this regulation. Would be hella fun.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

@TER DM list...did they like forget about Goat

 

It's a funking discgrace I tell you

 

Exactly the same. This is just a new format-thing kind of thing. Think of it like Traditional with a different spin.

 

I wonder if they'll host big events with this regulation. Would be hella fun.

I'd honestly be pretty ticked off if they do. They've been neglecting OCG and Trad for ages and now they come up with this. Salt in wounds

[Maeriberii Haan]

@TER DM list...did they like forget about Goat

 

It's a funking discgrace I tell you

 

for DM they really seem like they're gravitating towards alt-wins and Chaos. A pity too, things could've been more interesting if they're less restrictive on that list.

 

Granted, Goat is probably one of the few decks konami genuinely hate so yeah

[Brinolovania]

I would've preferred DM to allow non-effect rituals and fusions, at least. Other than that, this seems pretty neat though. 

[Blake]

5D's is just a stupidly silly format.

 

i can play fableds nmjsapodijcasujnvpodasfnvdsnmf vpakjdfnmbpg;odjnsf;

[(GigaDrillBreaker)]

tfw both rulers and ultimate offering are banned in xyz.

 

No fun.

[Blake]

tfw both rulers and ultimate offering are banned in xyz.

 

No fun.

Even so, you have nearly full power BA, triple rota phantom knights, and Seraph Clowns (minus norden), so there's a lot to do.

[Sleepy]

The lists are waaaaaay too limited.

I just looked at the DM list and most of that list are cards at 1, a few are at 3, and too much else is banned from that list, even things that were legal at that point.

 

I think they should release something much bigger like "Generation Pack! DM/GX/5Ds/ZeXal/Arc V Volume #"

Then make a limit/semi-limit list for those. That would allow them to get sells out of this by selling old cards while broadening each set. 

 

It'd also be so much easier to say "GX Generation set(s) is what you use for GX era checklist for building during these events". You wouldn't need to include a "banned" section because anything not in said generation's list is automatically banned for that list, while anything at 3 in that list doesn't need to be added to any regulation list because it'd pretty much be the set's checklist. They also wouldn't need to print all the 1500 or so cards each generation created during their times, because there's a ton of filler and cards that never saw any even potential theoretical use.

 

No Rituals on DM because of Gishki and Nekroz is just weird, and adding something like "only vanilla rituals" or anything else of that nature would be too many fine print clauses to keep track of, and that'd be a bad thing.

I like the idea, but I think they could have sat down a couple more hours and come up with more than this. I think some people here at YCM could make something better than what the people that get payed to do this did. Konami is not the type to say they'll play-test this and modify and/or get input form the fan base, so when they screw up somewhere, it is pretty much final...... Again, this is not a bad idea, but it feels too limited

[Mysty]

The lists are waaaaaay too limited.

I just looked at the DM list and most of that list are cards at 1, a few are at 3, and too much else is banned from that list, even things that were legal at that point.

 

Do remember that you can use cards outside of the era and cards not on the list (they're banned lists, not "allowed" lists). Although I do admit that DM's "no effect monsters other than these" is extremely limiting. Unfortunately, it's one of the ways to capture the flavor of the time as well as allow tons of powerful Spells/traps without letting decks with no Extra Deck to go hog wild *cough*Monarchs*cough*Kozmo*cough*.

 

I think they should release something much bigger like "Generation Pack! DM/GX/5Ds/ZeXal/Arc V Volume #"

Then make a limit/semi-limit list for those. That would allow them to get sells out of this by selling old cards while broadening each set.

 

It'd also be so much easier to say "GX Generation set(s) is what you use for GX era checklist for building during these events". You wouldn't need to include a "banned" section because anything not in said generation's list is automatically banned for that list, while anything at 3 in that list doesn't need to be added to any regulation list because it'd pretty much be the set's checklist. They also wouldn't need to print all the 1500 or so cards each generation created during their times, because there's a ton of filler and cards that never saw any even potential theoretical use.

 

I actually prefer the "you can use newer cards in older eras" idea more than making a list saying "you can only use cards from these specific sets" and/or printing specific sets for that purpose. I have a problem with the specific set approach, for the following reasons:

• For the "making a new set" approach, you're assuming Konami has essentially a list of all the cards played in one era, weed out all the extremely broken cards, still include the rest of the playable cards, and have a banlist ready that will not only balance the cards within the GX era but with the other decks created by the other sets AND the current banlist? I'd find that a tough task to ask of anyone, let alone Konami.

• Having a list of sets that cards can be allowed from is annoying to check through and somewhat arbitrary, given asking where starter/structure decks go and that promos and cards from later sets are often printed to support previous decks.

• Having such a list would keep the previous formats STATIC, or at least more static than the most recent format. For some, this is the exact point - capture the best decks that weren't completely overbearing and have them fight the newer decks forever. The problem then becomes that only the newest generation changes and likely eventually powercreeps out the old eras, meaning that either the older eras become useless and the format becomes essentially the same thing as advanced, or they start unbanning cards from the older eras just to keep up with the power creep, kind of destroying the point.

• Allowing newer cards in older eras allows the older eras to change and gain access to new tools directed to be used by them while also being unable to use tools not directed towards them. It also lets them use the staples and techs of old and of recent without having to explicitly list them all.

 

 

No Rituals on DM because of Gishki and Nekroz is just weird, and adding something like "only vanilla rituals" or anything else of that nature would be too many fine print clauses to keep track of, and that'd be a bad thing.

 

Not really. Just write on the DM banned list "All Ritual EFFECT monsters". I fail to see the problem there.

 

I like the idea, but I think they could have sat down a couple more hours and come up with more than this. I think some people here at YCM could make something better than what the people that get payed to do this did. Konami is not the type to say they'll play-test this and modify and/or get input form the fan base, so when they screw up somewhere, it is pretty much final...... Again, this is not a bad idea, but it feels too limited

 

 It's readily apparent than Konami put next to no effort into these lists - probably just copy-pasted the current list and adjusted it to look more like a more popular list from the era, while tacking on the mass banning of mechanics that weren't the focus. This is why you can see Cyber-stein and Metamorphosis still banned in formats where Fusions are banned.

As an additional comment that I couldn't find a place to comment within the comment, it seems like the lists were devised to let some of the more popular but not completely overbearing decks from each era reign:

• DM: Chaos Beaststicks + yata-Lock and Goat Control, although both lose some of their most powerful touches.

• GX: Elemental/Masked HEROes, Chaos/Hopeless/Disaster Dragons, Perfect Circle, glass cannon Cyber Dragons

• 5D's: Synchro infernities, most of Tele-DAD, Lightsworns

• ZEXAL: Burning Abyss, Monarchs, Kozmo

 

Overall, I give this format a 75%, which is a lot higher than I can usually give Konami (which is why I pretty much don't play anymore). This will at least be good for casual nostalgia play, although I do agree that the lists could have been constructed a lot better.

[Trebuchet MS]

A blast from the past as you get to experience formats where old crazy Decks were at their prime. Maybe even more so given the modern Main Deck material that's compatible with the list you pick.

 

I initially thought these formats were their own mini-tournaments and you'd be facing off against other Duelists who have also picked that generation. That's honestly very intimidating. Whoever picks Arc-V is pretty much going on a Self-Imposed Challenge or is very confident.

[goodfusion]

I just noticed something: Curse of Dragonfire is unlimited in the DM era, yet Fusions aren't around so it's practically useless. Yeah that seems like very bad planning.

 

I'm going to try at making a deck for this. Not sure which format though.

[Sleepy]

Do remember that you can use cards outside of the era and cards not on the list (they're banned lists, not "allowed" lists). Although I do admit that DM's "no effect monsters other than these" is extremely limiting. Unfortunately, it's one of the ways to capture the flavor of the time as well as allow tons of powerful Spells/traps without letting decks with no Extra Deck to go hog wild *cough*Monarchs*cough*Kozmo*cough*.

I did say I made that comment after checking up the first list (DM) and that is pretty much an "allowed" list, not a banlist. It clearly says "ALL other Effect Monsters", and looking at how by far the longest specified section in that era's list is "these are at 1", and none at 2, it makes for like, 2 or 3 decks you can make with it, and whatever variations among them from that list, which are again, too limited.

I agree Kozmo shouldn't be able to abuse older techs by being legal in previous gens, which is why it Kozmo wouldn't be able to. I don't know why that seemed to imply that my post's idea would allow that to happen.

 

I actually prefer the "you can use newer cards in older eras" idea more than making a list saying "you can only use cards from these specific sets" and/or printing specific sets for that purpose. I have a problem with the specific set approach, for the following reasons:

 

Before I further go through those, I have to remind you that each of the battle packs had between 200 and 300 cards reprinted in average, so the number would not be limiting. GX, 5Ds, and ZeXal, each added to the game approximately around 1000 cards throughout the 3-4 years they were around respectively, out of which a ton are pack filler that never saw the light of day, much of the time not even in casual environments, and they rarely gave legacy support so the previous eras's pools for the most part don't even coincide for like 99.99% of the total pool (yes this is a number thrown out without precision, but it is for the general idea). I don't see the limitations inherently other than "Konami wouldn't be willing to do it", which I know they like cutting corners. Limiting my suggestions based on their lack of dedication is not my thing though.....

• For the "making a new set" approach, you're assuming Konami has essentially a list of all the cards played in one era, weed out all the extremely broken cards, still include the rest of the playable cards, and have a banlist ready that will not only balance the cards within the GX era but with the other decks created by the other sets AND the current banlist? I'd find that a tough task to ask of anyone, let alone Konami.

 

It does have a list of cards played in that era, in the form of any tournament deck lists and such data ever gathered at any official events since the beginning of the game.

I don't think they are trying to weed out too much, I mean, 3 Disk Commanders for GX? Trying to balance out the power level of each age should be a given. The whole event idea can be thrown into the trash if Arc V meta can just beat them all out with sheer power creep. It is a tough task but not impossibly tough because the most open format is the Arc V one by far, and that one is pretty much the most defined one without having to experiment much. It is literally the only hard part unless Arc V had some restrictions of its own. The others? Even if Konami won't, I still think there are people in this forum that have tried to do stuff like this for free, so I'd expect it from the very company that generates income from the game.

 

• Having a list of sets that cards can be allowed from is annoying to check through and somewhat arbitrary, given asking where starter/structure decks go and that promos and cards from later sets are often printed to support previous decks.

 

I don't see how having a list of sets that says what's allowed is inherently annoying. It doesn't annoy me so I'd just put that into the "in my opinion" chart and say it'll most likely keep varying from person to person. I find the DM list annoying as is. As is, here's a random theme example of back then: You can't really use any Blue-Eyes version ever made during DM (not even talking about the current top tier builds here). Blue-Eyes can only enter under Arc V's banner as the expensive top tier deck it currently is. Heck you mostly will end up doing Chaos for DM and not really much else so even if Blue-Eyes is an example that wasn't meta back then, you could insert other themes and would apply.

 

Besides, how much really new support would you include in these? Only the Blue-Eyes, Dark Magician, and Red-Eyes support that TCG doesn't have applies if you were to include them. The rest like Silver Dragon have let enough time pass to warrant reprints for the sake of something like that. I didn't see reprints in Battle Packs doing much for the prices though, so how would this really differ in respect to printing cards from later sets? I have a hard time thinking on many specifics, especially considering Arc V's would't warrant a Set because it is the regular current format. The idea I suggested would add latter support for something that would warrant it, it wouldn't take much thought to say "its in that set so it means I can use it".

• Having such a list would keep the previous formats STATIC, or at least more static than the most recent format. For some, this is the exact point - capture the best decks that weren't completely overbearing and have them fight the newer decks forever. The problem then becomes that only the newest generation changes and likely eventually powercreeps out the old eras, meaning that either the older eras become useless and the format becomes essentially the same thing as advanced, or they start unbanning cards from the older eras just to keep up with the power creep, kind of destroying the point.

 

How long do you think this is meant to last? The Arc V game wouldn't suddenly evolve while in the middle of these events, and the sets would have pretty much a battle pack approach where updates COULD be latter releases, OR if the sets initially printed anything remotely noteworthy from their time and future legacy support they got, they could just get away with list tweaking what was already there. Though all this would sound inaccurate because I don't mean they hypthetical sets to last forever with patches. They'd last enough for a while though. I really think they would.

• Allowing newer cards in older eras allows the older eras to change and gain access to new tools directed to be used by them while also being unable to use tools not directed towards them. It also lets them use the staples and techs of old and of recent without having to explicitly list them all.

 

That is exactly why I suggested the sets idea, because that means they could automatically contain said newer cards directed to older eras from the set cardpool alone, instead of saying "all bla bla banned" and scratching those off. Most of that future legacy support is not support currently hot out of the oven, it is more along the lines of "Blue-Eyes got a Structure Deck like 3 years ago, and it is quote & quote new for the older era. However, it is old enough to warrant reprinting and therefore its inclusion into X generation set".

 

As an additional comment that I couldn't find a place to comment within the comment, it seems like the lists were devised to let some of the more popular but not completely overbearing decks from each era reign:

• DM: Chaos Beaststicks + yata-Lock and Goat Control, although both lose some of their most powerful touches.

• GX: Elemental/Masked HEROes, Chaos/Hopeless/Disaster Dragons, Perfect Circle, glass cannon Cyber Dragons

• 5D's: Synchro infernities, most of Tele-DAD, Lightsworns

• ZEXAL: Burning Abyss, Monarchs, Kozmo

 

Overall, I give this format a 75%, which is a lot higher than I can usually give Konami (which is why I pretty much don't play anymore). This will at least be good for casual nostalgia play, although I do agree that the lists could have been constructed a lot better.

 

Exactly! The eras have main highlight themes like Goat Control for DM or Perfect Circle for GX, which is why those could be good starting points. Also, DM is an example of "we don't need to ban much stuff but rather unban a bunch of stuff in order to revive the decks we wanna revive, but the problem is that leaving future sets legal would eat alive the insentive for building the retro content we want to achieve, and just unlocking banned cards for those newer decks is a bad idea......" I can accept my approach is not the best possible approach, but I think it'd be a legit one to try.

 

I don't agree with just dismissing Konami with a "you tried better than usual, 6.5 to 7 out of 10". I don't wanna accept giving them that excuse and cutting them some slack just because their idea is just in the right direction.

 

 

[Mysty]

It appears we have to agree to disagree on this, Sleepy. It's clear that you'd prefer a set-based "allowed" system to better represent and control which cards were present in which format (as well as dramatically shorten the banlist) while I prefer the current open system that allows old formats to benefit instantaneously from the newer sets without having to release special packs to "retcon" newer cards into the older formats. I agree that DM did end up paying a large price under the current system, but I think the strength and versatility of the other three previous eras (as well as the strength of DM's spell/trap lineup) make up for DM's lack of effect monsters and builds.

I didn't give Konami's format a "high" grade for its effort - I gave it its decent "passing" grade because I've found I like the format and that I like its idea and direction more and more each time I look at it. It's not perfect, but I think it has great potential and I'll most certainly try this format out for casual games.

[(GigaDrillBreaker)]

Guys DM has chain strike at 3. I think I can make this work.

[Mysty]

Guys DM has chain strike at 3. I think I can make this work.

 

Now that I look at the DM list again, it actually opens the doors to a LOT of Spell-based F/OTKs. So that's DM's purpose in this format: be the list with broken spells/traps and the source of many F/OTKs.

I am for some reason actually okay with that. I think I can now move my approval rating for this format from 75% to somewhere between 80-90%.

[Snatch Steal]

From what I've seen of it (and feel free to correct me), the only different Decks seem to be potentially Wind-Up loop and Destiny Hero (although it won't be as potent with out Tele-Dad support). 

 

Other than that, it may come down to a player using a currently good Deck that doesn't hurt whatever support they have, since Twin Twisters (for example), I believe, isn't banned in older sets.

 

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, these are just my lazy observations due to not being amused at Gateway and Rulers still being banned.