Pot of Greed

[Progenitor]

 

w h a t d o e s i t d o a g a i n ?

 

Alright in all seriousness, we all know how completely broken this card is.  However, recently I've been asking myself exactly how broken this would be at 1 in the current format?  I mean it's certainly, in my opinion, less broken than Snatch Steal, and that at least attempted to come back at 1.  But I'm honestly not sure.  The card is nothing more than a generic +1 in terms of hand advantage.  It can't be searched terribly readily, though as of late it can be recycled without too much effort.

 

For the sake of discussion, I thought it might be fun to entertain the idea of this card coming back at 1, and thoroughly look at exactly what implications it might have.  Personally, I prefer a faster YuGiOh, as most other card games AREN'T fast.  I think that's what makes YuGiOh unique, so this little dingle to 1 could be pretty fun.

 

Really stupid, yes.  But fun nonetheless.  How do you all see it?

[ENMaker]

I think the fact that Cupidity is being run when it banishes a quarter of your deck in most cases is a decent indication that this will likely never be able come back. Free +1 with no restriction or drawback, even just adding it as a 41st card is better than leaving the deck at 40 without it. Snatch Steal was run in basically every deck and immediately rebanned so that's not a great citation either. I might like the idea of it being at 1 but in practice it'd just be funking annoying.

[VCR_CAT]

Even if this is just at 1, literally every deck pretty much is required to run it. It's horrible design because there's no question whether you want to run it or not with good reasons on why not; you basically have to run it. No, this cannot come back, even at 1.

[~~~~]

"Pot of Greed" - Released when the game was very new and it was likely difficult to anticipate the importance of card advantage in the future competitive metagame. Effectively gives the user an immediate unconditional costless +1 in card advantage, and makes it objectively superior to every other topdeck in the game, thus giving Deck constructors zero reason to not run the maximum number of copies possible in their Deck. Was made Limited and then Forbidden due to needlessly reducing Deck diversity and giving an arbitrary advantage to whoever drew it first.

http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Broken

 

This is why this card can never come back, unless the format is extremely riddled with Naturia Beast/clones.

[Snatch Steal]

less broken than Snatch Steal

 

 

If someone hits this and someone else doesn't, the person who didn't will inherently be at a disadvantage. If you draw all the pieces of Exodia, you win, but if you don't, sucks.

 

Basically, this would be interesting to come back, but it would make the game more luck-based than it already is, and today I lost only to someone milling Libic.

[White Void]

It's more or less the best card in the game and probably the only card that fits into every single deck in existence (besides probably like Superheavy Samurais or something). The issue with Pot of Greed is that most other games have some kind of resource management system (mana in Magic, energy in Pokemon, etc.) that at least in theory keeps a certain tempo to the game. Yugioh has none of this and as a result, the concept of card advantage becomes overwhelmingly more important as every card itself is more or less its own resource. Pot of Greed being a generic +1 with no cost or restrictions means that it improves the speed and consistency of every single deck. While there's no guarantee you'll have it every single game, there's also literally no disadvantage to running it and you'd have to be crazy not to. 

 

Pot of Greed is to Yugioh what Black Lotus is to Magic for those familiar with it.

[Progenitor]

Pot of Greed is to Yugioh what Black Lotus is to Magic for those familiar with it.

Black lotus was a literally free +2 or something right?  zero drop add 3 colorless.  That's like in a whole other universe of brokenness.

 

Nah I know it was bad for lack of deck diversity, and I know there is literally zero reason not to run it, but are those inherently bad things, specifically to the enjoyment of the game?  I'm not sure.  I think it would at least make the game a bit more entertaining.  Actually, now that the turn 1 player no longer draws a card at the Draw Phase, dropping Pot turn 1 isn't nearly as advantageous.  It basically becomes "Imma play with the old rules for a sec."  Now opening Pot on turn 2 is a much different story.  That's the only thing that makes me super uneasy about even trying it with some friends.  The duel can literally be over before it begins if you open Pot turn 2 just due to the sheer amount of advantage that generates.

 

I dunno.  That's just the way I've been looking at it recently.  I feel like it's generic enough a resource that it helps every deck out equally, but hand advantage and field advantage are two vastly different worlds.  Some lower tier decks lose because they can't sustain their hand advantage, but can't move fast enough to make that not an issue.  Having Pot of Greed helps those types of decks astoundingly.  On the other hand, yes it makes better decks better, but in this day and age most of your stuff is generated from 1-2 cards.  if you already have them, and have ways to get them consistently, then a simply "Draw 2" won't affect your results that much, especially if your deck already can maintain solid hand advantage.

 

This is all just speculation.  To be honest, my ideal yugioh are those once in a blue moon games you used to have in the post-PRIO era.  Where no matter what happens, no matter how many resources you burn, you still have a chance.  I remember I went 44 turns with my shitty ass Fire Fists vs. Yang Ying, and it was super close the entire time.  It could have literally gone either way.  I even pulled off Ultimate Fire Formation.  That type of game is really thrilling, and I feel like a smartly used Pot of Greed could maybe help promote those scenarios.

 

On the other hand, it has the stupidness to do the exact opposite.  All your arguments are totally valid, but I more want to focus on the practical applications the card would have on the game, rather than the inherent bad design the card embraces.

[~Faytl~]

 

 

This is all just speculation.  To be honest, my ideal yugioh are those once in a blue moon games you used to have in the post-PRIO era.  Where no matter what happens, no matter how many resources you burn, you still have a chance.  I remember I went 44 turns with my shitty ass Fire Fists vs. Yang Ying, and it was super close the entire time.  It could have literally gone either way.  I even pulled off Ultimate Fire Formation.  That type of game is really thrilling, and I feel like a smartly used Pot of Greed could maybe help promote those scenarios.

 

 

How do you smartly use Pot of Greed? You draw it and you play it. Other than having less than two cards in your deck, there's no reason you WOULDN'T play it the second you drew it.

 

This can't come back ever, I think, just because it's so simple and useful that everyone would almost have to run it. 

[Miror B]

Black lotus was a literally free +2 or something right?  zero drop add 3 colorless.  That's like in a whole other universe of brokenness.

Black Lotus increased tempo and decks were strictly worse if they didn't include it.

 

That is what Pot of Greed does. It increases tempo and your deck is simply worse if you choose not to run it.

 

It's not a gamebreaking kind of better/worse if I'm being honest, but for a game where people seem to like varied formats, making a staple of such magnitude is a bad idea.

[Toffee.]

Honestly, what would let this card achieve maximum levels of toxicity is in this sort of event-

Player 1, who doesn't draw, does his turn/whatever.

Player 2 opens with this card, making the "comeback game" even easier and/or still does his whole turn/etc.

[Expelsword]

Pot of Greed isn't very broken in terms of being overpowered, the problem is all the cards that it gives you are likely going to change the gamestate quite a bit. It can't come back, obviously, because decks are already too thin. Look at what they did to Upstart and Chicken Game...

 

Personally though, I think Graceful Charity and Painful Choice are better in almost every deck.

[~Faytl~]

Pot of Greed isn't very broken in terms of being overpowered, the problem is all the cards that it gives you are likely going to change the gamestate quite a bit. It can't come back, obviously, because decks are already too thin. Look at what they did to Upstart and Chicken Game...

 

Personally though, I think Graceful Charity and Painful Choice are better in almost every deck.

 

Graceful Charity and Painful Choice are arguably even more broken than Pot. Especially Choice, since it lets you pick at least four monsters that will go to the graveyard. You can instantly toss all your Mezukis immediately, along with something to revive with them, or Mali and Plaguespreader. Meanwhile Graceful Charity lets you draw 3 cards and then throw out the two worst, which is ridiculous even if you don't discard stuff that benefits off of being in the graveyard. All at a nice +0 on both of them even if you don't dump graveyard-loving mons.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

God, did TCG stuffing Upstart in everything not teach you guys anything?

 

OCG literally puts Cupidity in everything from BA to their mothers 

 

...and you guys wanna unban the mother of all staples

 

SMH

 

That being said, even Feather Duster isn't run in EVERYTHING, so maybe there's a deck that wont run PoG (infernity maybe?)

[~Faytl~]

God, did TCG stuffing Upstart in everything not teach you guys anything?

 

OCG literally puts Cupidity in everything from BA to their mothers 

 

...and you guys wanna unban the mother of all staples

 

SMH

 

That being said, even Feather Duster isn't run in EVERYTHING, so maybe there's a deck that wont run PoG (infernity maybe?)

 

You will find that none of us are advocating (hell, just suggesting the idea, really, is all the OP was doing, for discussion) a Pot unban. Read the damn thread before you generalize the opinions of everyone in it.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

You will find that none of us are advocating (hell, just suggesting the idea, really, is all the OP was doing, for discussion) a Pot unban. Read the damn thread before you generalize the opinions of everyone in it.

 

 

 

 "I thought it might be fun to entertain the idea of this card coming back at 1"

 

This offended me

[Progenitor]

entertain

give attention or consideration to (an idea, suggestion, or feeling).

 

Notice the lack of the word "advocation" or any of it's synonyms.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

entertain

give attention or consideration to (an idea, suggestion, or feeling).

 

Notice the lack of the word "advocation" or any of it's synonyms.

I dunno mate, all I'm getting from PoG is PTSD from people using it multiple times in 05

 

Also that was more directed at Faytl

[~Faytl~]

entertain

give attention or consideration to (an idea, suggestion, or feeling).

 

Notice the lack of the word "advocation" or any of it's synonyms.

Don't bother, bro, he's already proven he can't read.

 

 

I dunno mate, all I'm getting from PoG is PTSD from people using it multiple times in 05

 

Also that was more directed at Faytl

 

Great. That's them. We aren't the ones using it, you contribute nothing to this if you kneejerk and go "OMG POT OF GREED THREAD MOFS TRYIN UNBAN ZOMG PLS NO MUST TELL THEM HOW DUMB THEY IS SHAME SHAME SHAME."

 

Christ.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Don't bother, bro, he's already proven he can't read.

 

 

 

Great. That's them. We aren't the ones using it, you contribute nothing to this if you kneejerk and go "OMG POT OF GREED THREAD MOFS TRYIN UNBAN ZOMG PLS NO MUST TELL THEM HOW DUMB THEY IS SHAME SHAME SHAME."

 

Christ.

What's there to bloody talk about?

 

It's a 3 word card, its weakened versions are already either staples, limited, or banned

 

Draw 2 cards. 

 

Which part of that merits discussion

 

This isn't even something like Graceful where you can talk about interesting combos with it

 

There is NOTHING to gain from a topic on this thread

 

Caps makes you look asinine, so drop it, or don't I guess

 

For the record, never said the word advocate, that's all you. I just don't see anything interesting about considering this card, except for the age old riddle, "What deck won't run PoG?"

[~Faytl~]

What's there to bloody talk about?

 

 

NOT being a generalizing ass without taking the time to catch yourself up with the program, you smug jackass. I don't care how pointless you think the thread is, you come in here and disrespect everyone by wholesale claiming we're stupid for even talking about something and it tends to piss me off. Shocking, I know. 

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

NOT being a generalizing ass without taking the time to catch yourself up with the program, you smug jackass. I don't care how pointless you think the thread is, you come in here and disrespect everyone by wholesale claiming we're stupid for even talking about something and it tends to piss me off. Shocking, I know. 

 

he's already proven he can't read.

I didn't call anyone stupid for talking about or making this topic. I said talking in caps, (and now I might add the overuse of profanity and ad hom), makes the person doing so look poor. That's really it

 

I'm not generalizing. There's 3 words, there's not really any "combos" you can do with it. It's the stalest card ever made. And people like VCR and Enguin have already pointed out why it would be toxic to return. So ringo, care to tell this jackass what there it to talk about PoG?

 

 

I didn't feel entirely good wading into the Charity vs PoG debate cause I disagree there for one. I'm just not sure what sensible reason there is for this thread. But again, please enlighten this jackass

[Kaiji]

Placing a card that was played in 2005 in the context of 2016 was the original intent of this thread.

 

All it was missing was the obligatory shitstorm anyway :^)

[~Faytl~]

I didn't call anyone stupid for talking about or making this topic. I said talking in caps, (and now I might add the overuse of profanity and ad hom), makes the person doing so look poor. That's really it

 

I'm not generalizing. There's 3 words, there's not really any "combos" you can do with it. It's the stalest card ever made. And people like VCR and Enguin have already pointed out why it would be toxic to return. So ringo, care to tell this jackass what there it to talk about PoG?

 

 

I didn't feel entirely good wading into the Charity vs PoG debate cause I disagree there for one. I'm just not sure what sensible reason there is for this thread. But again, please enlighten this jackass

 

- Says there is no point discussing combos with a card cause they don't exist.

 

- Posts a card specifically designed to work with said card.

 

Seems legit.

[Progenitor]

Winter, I was trying to generate a discussion not of whether or not it's a broken card, not whether or not it deserves to come back to one, not whether or not it enables a bunch of combos or something.

 

It was a discussion on what would happen if it did.  What if tomorrow Konami decided to experiment like they did with Snatch Steal and put it to 1?  Once everyone got beyond the initial shock, would it really be as bad as everyone thinks; is it's ban purely because of its horrid design?  Or something else?

 

I legitimately have no idea.  I think it might be cute.  I think it is so absolutely freakin generic that it promotes every deck somewhat equally, but has more potential to benefit lower tier decks harder than top tier.  So aside from it's terrible design, lets envision this hypothetical scenario and the implications that would arise from it.

 

Joining a discussion and stating there is nothing to discuss is like going on youtube, looking up a UMvC3 video, commenting "This game funking sucks" and closing your browser.  Why would you take the time out of your day to do that?  It's pointless.  If you don't want to discuss it, then don't.

[Maeriberii Haan]

it inherently promotes more powerful deck than less powerful ones though.

 

simply because you'll draw into better cards most of the time, comparatively.