Yu-Gi-Oh! Rulings Questions

[Azuriena]

Thanks for answering, but... you can use them for Kaleidoscope. Sources: Wiki, Database

For reference, Nekroz Mirror works with them too. Mirror: Wiki Database

 

Also, all Ritual Spells specify a location that monsters like Sphere Kuriboh cannot fulfill (hand or field) except by its own effect. It would makes sense that they would only be Tribute substitutes if they had the wording: "banish this card from the GY instead of 1 of the monsters that would be Tributed", but none of those cards have that specific wording. They only have "banish this card from the GY as 1 of the monsters required for the Ritual Summon" and the monsters sent to the GY by Super Soldier Synthesis are considered "used for the Ritual Summon". Since the effects of Beginning Knight and Evening Twilight Knight are still applied.

 

That's why I'm super confused.

 

Edit: I realize that nobody uses Rituals anymore, especially BLS Rituals, so that's probably why the rulings are really difficult to find/nonexistent. I'll go with Dragulas's answer unless anybody has any other thoughts on it. As you can probably tell by now, these questions are for Custom Cards ^.^;

You make a good point with Dragulas's explanation being insufficient.

 

It's an exercise in futility to determine why it works this way at this time.

[Dragulas]

Thanks for answering, but... you can use them for Kaleidoscope. Sources: Wiki, Database

For reference, Nekroz Mirror works with them too. Mirror: Wiki Database

 

Also, all Ritual Spells specify a location that monsters like Sphere Kuriboh cannot fulfill (hand or field) except by its own effect. It would makes sense that they would only be Tribute substitutes if they had the wording: "banish this card from the GY instead of 1 of the monsters that would be Tributed", but none of those cards have that specific wording. They only have "banish this card from the GY as 1 of the monsters required for the Ritual Summon" and the monsters sent to the GY by Super Soldier Synthesis are considered "used for the Ritual Summon". Since the effects of Beginning Knight and Evening Twilight Knight are still applied.

 

That's why I'm super confused.

 

Edit: I realize that nobody uses Rituals anymore, especially BLS Rituals, so that's probably why the rulings are really difficult to find/nonexistent. I'll go with Dragulas's answer unless anybody has any other thoughts on it. As you can probably tell by now, these questions are for Custom Cards ^.^;

I always forget kaleido can still use materials as a normal ritual summon, my point (which wasnt correct apparently) only applied if kaleido was extra deck exclusive (materials). Guess we always learn something new

[TF2_The_Scout]

miscellaneousaurus is applying its effect to make all Dinosaurs unaffected by card effects. I then special summon Ultimate Conductor Tyranno by its summon condition. Can its summon be negated by Solemn Warning or does Miscellaneousaurus prevent that?

[Darj]

The Summon can still be negated. A way to see Summon negation is that it prevents the monster from reaching the field in the first place. So, in this case, it's not under your control yet, and thus it cannot be protected by Miscellaneousurus anyway. But even if Miscellaneousaurus protected Dinosaurs anywhere, AFAIK Summon negations would still apply.

[Azuriena]

But even if Miscellaneousaurus protected Dinosaurs anywhere, AFAIK Summon negations would still apply.

 

Why do you think so?

[TF2_The_Scout]

Alright, I missed the part where it says "you control".

[Darj]

Why do you think so?

Yeah... was about to edit my post to remove that statement because I'm not actually sure. My first thought was that Summon negation is unique in that it applies in some sort of "limbo" or transition between the field and wherever the monster is coming from (hand, Extra Deck, etc.), so even if Miscellaneousaurus protected Dinos on your field, hand, GY, etc. it wouldn't cover that "limbo" where the Summon negation is taking effect. So, I guess in the end it depends on how such hypothetical effect is written.

 

Besides, to protect from Summon negation, Konami resorts to "the Summon cannot be negated" effects, which makes me think that summon negation is on a different cantegory, so to speak, of effects that cannot be covered by "unaffected by effects" protections.

[ÆƵ–]

Question regarding the interactions between Closed Forest and #64: Ronin Raccoon:

 

What would the ATK of a token Ronin makes be while he and Forest are the only cards on the field and there are no monsters in the Graveyard before Ronin hits the field? Would forest boost ronin after he detatches and therefore have the token be 1100 at base, or would forest not apply the boost before the effect is finished?

[Azuriena]

Besides, to protect from Summon negation, Konami resorts to "the Summon cannot be negated" effects, which makes me think that summon negation is on a different cantegory, so to speak, of effects that cannot be covered by "unaffected by effects" protections.

 

"Unaffected by X" effects are by far Continuous Effects, which only apply while the monster is face-up on the field. Are you suggesting the use of "This card's Summon cannot be negated" being chosen over something like "Unaffected by X when about to be Summoned" (never mind how clunky that is) is what's giving you this idea?

 

Making conclusions in this game the way that's been done here feels like it could go wrong easily. You've created a reasoning from your own assumptions to explain why the game designers did a certain thing they did (when the reason could be completely unrelated, or there could be no reason at all). It shouldn't be used to guess at interactions.

 

Question regarding the interactions between Closed Forest and #64: Ronin Raccoon:

 

What would the ATK of a token Ronin makes be while he and Forest are the only cards on the field and there are no monsters in the Graveyard before Ronin hits the field? Would forest boost ronin after he detatches and therefore have the token be 1100 at base, or would forest not apply the boost before the effect is finished?

 

1100.

 

Number 64 detaches at activation. At that point, the effect hasn't even begun to resolve.

[Azuriena]

.

[Darj]

"Unaffected by X" effects are by far Continuous Effects, which only apply while the monster is face-up on the field. Are you suggesting the use of "This card's Summon cannot be negated" being chosen over something like "Unaffected by X when about to be Summoned" (never mind how clunky that is) is what's giving you this idea?

 

Making conclusions in this game the way that's been done here feels like it could go wrong easily. You've created a reasoning from your own assumptions to explain why the game designers did a certain thing they did (when the reason could be completely unrelated, or there could be no reason at all). It shouldn't be used to guess at interactions.

Yeah, something like that: why introduce the "Summon cannot be negated" and interact with the Summon mechanic when they could have used a variant of "unaffected" effect instead? But you are right, those were just a bunch of assumptions.

[TF2_The_Scout]

Do Yang Zings miss timing if destroyed by True King Lithosagym, the Disaster on the field?

[notcleverusername]

Do Yang Zings miss timing if destroyed by True King Lithosagym, the Disaster on the field?

No

[Azuriena]

Do Yang Zings miss timing if destroyed by True King Lithosagym, the Disaster on the field?

When players get the right to activate triggered effects, an optional "when" effect can't be activated if its trigger wasn't the last thing to have happened. This is what "missing timing" commonly refers to.

 

"A, and if you do, B" means that A and B happen at the same time. (See more: https://yugiohblog.konami.com/articles/?p=4514.)

[~~~~]

My opponent controls Lost World and I control one the tokens that Lost World summons. I also control 1 other Normal Monster. My opponent activates Survival Line.

 

What can my opponent do with the protection effect of Lost World vs the summoning of Dinosaurs via Survival Line effect? Basically, in this situation, what is the most amount of Dinosaurs my opponent could summon with a combination of Survival Line's effect and Babycerasaurus being triggered by Lost World.

 

Please provide sources. I have been dealing for the past few weeks with a 15 yearold who is very new to Yugioh and basically just bought 3 Dinosmasher's Fury. Despite his inexperience, he is very confident with his rulings, and will not be persuaded very easily by even several people telling him that he is wrong. He claims that he can protect the Token, but not my Normal Monster, and that he will still Summon 2 Dinosaurs with Survival Line because 2 monsters were still destroyed (the Babycerasaurus in the deck + my Normal Monster). This gets him 3 Summons when you factor in Baby's effect, and could even get him 4 Summons if he didn't desperately want to disrupt my Normal Monster combos.

[notcleverusername]

My opponent controls Lost World and I control one the tokens that Lost World summons. I also control 1 other Normal Monster. My opponent activates Survival Line.

 

What can my opponent do with the protection effect of Lost World vs the summoning of Dinosaurs via Survival Line effect? Basically, in this situation, what is the most amount of Dinosaurs my opponent could summon with a combination of Survival Line's effect and Babycerasaurus being triggered by Lost World.

 

Please provide sources. I have been dealing for the past few weeks with a 15 yearold who is very new to Yugioh and basically just bought 3 Dinosmasher's Fury. Despite his inexperience, he is very confident with his rulings, and will not be persuaded very easily by even several people telling him that he is wrong. He claims that he can protect the Token, but not my Normal Monster, and that he will still Summon 2 Dinosaurs with Survival Line because 2 monsters were still destroyed (the Babycerasaurus in the deck + my Normal Monster). This gets him 3 Summons when you factor in Baby's effect, and could even get him 4 Summons if he didn't desperately want to disrupt my Normal Monster combos.

I only put in a question to the YGOrg Discord for the choosing what to protect/destroy, which confirms that you cannot pick and choose what you protect; you either protect all, or protect none. Rafa Santos is, to my knowledge, a regular judge, while Ness is, to my knowledge, a more highly positioned judge (how highly I also do not know).

I'm not going to ask them about Survival Line because I'd rather not bug them with stupid questions which I and everyone else already know the answers to, including you and evidently everyone around your friend.

You can only summon Dinosaurs up to the number of monsters destroyed specifically by the effect of Survival Line. If you do not destroy any with Survival Line, Survival Line does not summon any monsters. Lost World's destruction redirection is destruction by the effect of Lost World, not by Survival Line. If he chooses to protect Normal monsters on the field with Lost World, he can destroy 2 Dinosaurs in his deck (2 Babyceras, for example), which will summon 2 monsters. Otherwise, he can destroy both Normal monsters with Survival Line, which will still summon 2 Dinosaur monsters from his deck.

 

Here's an OCG ruling for Survival Line vs protection

 

Q: I activate Survival Line, which destroys all Normal Monsters on the field and Special Summons the same number of Level 4 or lower Dinosaur-Type monsters from my Deck. When the effect resolves, if a Sabersaurus would be destroyed, but I apply the effect of Lost World and destroy a Dinosaur-Type monster in my hand or Deck instead, what happens?

A: In this scenario, by applying the effect of Lost World, Sabersaurus is not destroyed by the effect of Survival Line and remains face-up on the field. If no other Normal Monsters are destroyed by the effect of Survival Line, no Level 4 or lower Dinosaur-Type monsters are Special Summoned from the Deck either.

Unfortunately it also implies other Normal monsters can be destroyed even if applying Lost World protection, even though there are very few situations where this is true.

[~~~~]

Sorry to ask 2 questions in a row, but if I activate Super Polymerization, can I use face-down monsters my opponent controls as Fusion Materials?

[Azuriena]

Sorry to ask 2 questions in a row, but if I activate Super Polymerization, can I use face-down monsters my opponent controls as Fusion Materials?

You can only use Set monsters as Fusion Material as though they were face-up if you control them.

 

(I'm not sure how using an opponent's would work anyway when you can't look at them!)

[Dragulas]

You can only use Set monsters as Fusion Material as though they were face-up if you control them.

 

(I'm not sure how using an opponent's would work anyway when you can't look at them!)

Well face down opponent's monsters are just "monsters", and thus they dont fill the requirements for a fusion monster since even the most generic ones at least demand 1 specific thing (type atributte, level, etc). I dont know if there is a Fusion monster which materials are "+ 1 monster", but if it were the case could it be possible to use set monsters with superpoly?

[Azuriena]

Well face down opponent's monsters are just "monsters", and thus they dont fill the requirements for a fusion monster since even the most generic ones at least demand 1 specific thing (type atributte, level, etc). I dont know if there is a Fusion monster which materials are "+ 1 monster", but if it were the case could it be possible to use set monsters with superpoly?

There is no such Fusion Monster. (Which is why, if you saw it, my original post just said "Nope." I decided to change it in case someone wanted to ask a question like yours, actually.)

 

For my second statement, read it as "(I'm not sure how using an opponent's [as Fusion Material as though they were face-up] would work anyway when you can't look at them!)"

[Darj]

The previous question made me wonder the following. Although it's an hypothetical situation, I am interested in knowing the answer for card-making purposes:

If I were to make a Fusion Monster that requires monsters with no Levels as materials, a realistic requirement due to Xyz and Link Monsters, would it also be able to use face-down monsters as materials? I ask because reading the rules on face-down monsters, I found they are treated as having no Levels.

[notcleverusername]

As a general hypothetical, using the opponent's face-down monsters with Super Poly is prob untenable due to things like Luster Dracoslayer, who have conditions that they cannot be used as Fusion Material. Because you cannot know if the monster itself makes it illegal to use as a material, it's prob not something that's ever gonna be possibru.

[Azuriena]

As a general hypothetical, using the opponent's face-down monsters with Super Poly is prob untenable due to things like Luster Dracoslayer, who have conditions that they cannot be used as Fusion Material. Because you cannot know if the monster itself makes it illegal to use as a material, it's prob not something that's ever gonna be possibru.

 

OK, jumping in the deep end...

 

It could also be that because you can determine it's a correct Fusion Material (it is "1 monster"), you can choose to use it as Fusion Material, but it must be revealed so that the Fusion Summoning effect resolves without effect. 

 

Somewhat similar to how you can activate an effect that moves a card from your opponent's Deck even if they might not have an appropriate card in their Deck to move. It just fails when it resolves.

 

(The issue of honesty shouldn't make this any less plausible because 1. most cards used as Fusion Material are moved to places where cards are public knowledge; and 2. this is YGO. Honesty is already expected in many other aspects of the game.)

 

So I don't think any conclusions can be drawn.

 

The previous question made me wonder the following. Although it's an hypothetical situation, I am interested in knowing the answer for card-making purposes:

If I were to make a Fusion Monster that requires monsters with no Levels as materials, a realistic requirement due to Xyz and Link Monsters, would it also be able to use face-down monsters as materials? I ask because reading the rules on face-down monsters, I found they are treated as having no Levels.

 

In these cases I think you should make your own rules. At the same time, I also think that a good custom card design wouldn't require you to do so.

 

I wouldn't say Set monsters have no Levels. It simply can't be determined whether they do (and if they do, what the Level is), except when it can be, like when you're using them as Fusion Material.

[Dragulas]

When a link monster is used as material for another link and using its rating as material as well, does it has to be the exact rating? or can it be used up to that rating?

Ex: Firewall Dragon (Link 4) can be used for another firewall (or insert link 4) with another monster and treat is rating as 3 or it has to be treated as 4 and thus it cant be used for it?

[ÆƵ–]

When a link monster is used as material for another link and using its rating as material as well, does it has to be the exact rating? or can it be used up to that rating?

Ex: Firewall Dragon (Link 4) can be used for another firewall (or insert link 4) with another monster and treat is rating as 3 or it has to be treated as 4 and thus it cant be used for it?

A link can be used as link material either as 1 monster or as its link rating. So firewall can be either 1 or 4.