Yu-Gi-Oh! Rulings Questions

[Catman25]

This is really basic, but tbh I don't remember, if I activate a Trap Card, my opponent gets to respond to the Trap before I do? I.e. I want to chain a Paleozoic to my own trap, but my opponent gets the "priority" to disrupt me first?

 

Also, if I discard a Paleozoic to activate PWWB/Karma Cut/etc., I can directly chain the discarded trap because it's technically in the grave at activation, correct?

[Atypical-Abbie]

This is really basic, but tbh I don't remember, if I activate a Trap Card, my opponent gets to respond to the Trap before I do? I.e. I want to chain a Paleozoic to my own trap, but my opponent gets the "priority" to disrupt me first?

 

Also, if I discard a Paleozoic to activate PWWB/Karma Cut/etc., I can directly chain the discarded trap because it's technically in the grave at activation, correct?

Trigger Effects have rules regarding the turn, so if there are any of those first, you must follow those, but assuming there is not, you simply always switch from player to player who activated the cards, so your opponent would have the chance first, then you would.

 

It must have already been there at the time the card was activated, discarding it would cause it to be there after the activation, so it will not Chain to the card.

 

A good help here:

http://www.yugioh-card.com/en/gameplay/fasteffects_timing.html

[~~~~]

Also, if I discard a Paleozoic to activate PWWB/Karma Cut/etc., I can directly chain the discarded trap because it's technically in the grave at activation, correct?

Correct

It must have already been there at the time the card was activated, discarding it would cause it to be there after the activation, so it will not Chain to the card.

This is incorrect.

 

https://ygorganization.com/ocg-extra-pack-2016-rulings/

 

 

This is really basic, but tbh I don't remember, if I activate a Trap Card, my opponent gets to respond to the Trap before I do? I.e. I want to chain a Paleozoic to my own trap, but my opponent gets the "priority" to disrupt me first?

 

Trigger Effects have rules regarding the turn, so if there are any of those first, you must follow those, but assuming there is not, you simply always switch from player to player who activated the cards, so your opponent would have the chance first, then you would.

As far as I know, they are Quick-like effects, not Trigger-like.

Again as far as I know, you must give your opponent the chance to respond when adding to/starting a chain, except in SEGOC cases where you give your opponent the chance to respond only after the last effect has activated, or in the case of mandatory effects. Since Paleozoics are indeed optional, you have to give your opponent the chance to chain a random MST/Beatrice/Kozmo Pilot/Spirit Dragon/ABC etc quick effect to stop your summon.

[Atypical-Abbie]

This is incorrect.

 

https://ygorganization.com/ocg-extra-pack-2016-rulings/

 

As far as I know, they are Quick-like effects, not Trigger-like.

Again as far as I know, you must give your opponent the chance to respond when adding to/starting a chain, except in SEGOC cases where you give your opponent the chance to respond only after the last effect has activated, or in the case of mandatory effects. Since Paleozoics are indeed optional, you have to give your opponent the chance to chain a random MST/Beatrice/Kozmo Pilot/Spirit Dragon/ABC etc quick effect to stop your summon.

Jesus christ, I have been wrong a lot lately, I thought I remembered these things correctly, I must brush up a little I guess.

 

I didn't say they were Trigger Effects, what I mean is that in case they were, you would have to follow those rules, but as they're not, you simply switch from player to player.

[Sleepy]

Let's see... How do I word this?

Basically, I'm trying to learn the specifics about counters in the game:

 

The vast majority have their own name to distinguish them by (Spell Counters, Ice Counters, etc). Yet, there are a handful of cards (18 cards in the entire game according to my search to be exact) that just deal with general counters. "Bla bla" Counters always go capitalized as the specific name they are, while non-specific counters are not capitalized.

 

For this there are 2 exceptions (this is accounting for the age of print AKA yes PSCT is keeping this pattern). "Colosseum - Cage of the Gladiator Beasts" and "Number 51" are the only cards in the game that just say "Counters" capitalized without naming said counters; yet they both have in common that their usage of the counters themselves says "for each of these Counters" as to not matter what other kinds placed in what other ways remain on the card.

 

Other than those 2, "Counter Cleaner" and "Gate Blocker" are all about stopping or deleting counters of all kinds, regardless of names or ways they were placed.

 

It is worth mentioning that "Des Mosquito" and "Metal Shooter" gain ATK "for each of these counters" setting their self-earned ones apart, yet without capitalizing or especially naming them. This holds up in the "Des Mosquito" reprint of Battle Pack 3 with PSCT.

 

That accounts for 6, the remaining 12 cards are the following. The ones bolded are the ones I know exist in PSCT. None of these specify they need to use the counters they themselves named and/or produced.
- B.E.S. Big Core

- B.E.S. Crystal Core

- B.E.S. Covered Core

- B.E.S. Big Core MK-2
- B.E.S. Tetran

- BOXer

- Miracle Jurassic Egg

- Magic Reflector

- Ancient Gear Castle

- Kickfire

- Dark Catapulter

- Ballon Lizard

 

Now, on to a couple rulings here.

 

1 ) Seems like effects that continuously negate face-up cards that can have counters on them (Skill Drain, Royal Decree, Trapstun, etc), mainly Spell Counters, causes them to drop them, locking away their ability to even carry them. I am trying to find examples of the same negation scenario when it comes to kinds of counters that are forced onto cards (namely A-Counters). Nothing I've found says anything about this, and I'd like to know what happens and why.

2 ) Counter Cleaner removes all types of counters.~

Based on this last one, mention of just counters implies all types.

Now with that in mind, we know specifically named counters can't be used as other kinds of counters (obviously), but what about the cards I listed above?

Are they allowed to be sped-up by using other kinds of counters imposed on them (like Spell Counters used as general unnamed counters)? After all Counter Cleaner seems to work that way (affecting any types of counters because of the way it addresses them). If not, why is that?

 

 

 

 

I'm pretty sure there was something else I was gonna ask about this subject, but I'll leave it at that for now. 
I think I had asked a bit of this in the past, but this is the most elaborated I've made things.

[JC39459]

If a Crystal Beast is placed as a Continuous Spell Card (Monster card face up in S/T zone) & the opponent activates a spell, effect or trap that specifies all face up monsters on the field are destroyed, is the Crystal Beast in the S/T zone destroyed, or does the continuous spell effect prevent it from being destroyed in this play. "I believe in this case, in reference to the anime series, the monster becomes crystalised when placed in the S/T zone, which therefore is not classified as a Face up monster. However in real duels, there is no crystalised card to put in the monsters place to prevent it from being treated as a monster, therefore we place the monster card face up as a continuous spell, which realistically is a face up monster, regardless whether it is treated as such."

Help in regards to this cards restrictions and abilities would be greatly appreciated! Thank you. :)

 

(If post placed wrong, please transfer to correct forum/topic)

[Dova]

If a Crystal Beast is placed as a Continuous Spell Card (Monster card face up in S/T zone) & the opponent activates a spell, effect or trap that specifies all face up monsters on the field are destroyed, is the Crystal Beast in the S/T zone destroyed, or does the continuous spell effect prevent it from being destroyed in this play?

 

So far in Yugioh, anything in the Spell/Trap Zone is not a monster. Specifically, Crystal Beasts' effects place them "as a Continuous Spell Card", which means they are no longer a monster, meaning they are unaffected by Dark Hole and the like.

 

However, Traps like Metal Reflect Slime, which Special Summon themselves as a Monster, have a clause in their effects saying "(This card is still treated as a Trap Card.)" meaning they are still vulnerable to a card like Mystical Space Typhoon.

[Bringerofcake]

Let's see... How do I word this?

Basically, I'm trying to learn the specifics about counters in the game:

 

The vast majority have their own name to distinguish them by (Spell Counters, Ice Counters, etc). Yet, there are a handful of cards (18 cards in the entire game according to my search to be exact) that just deal with general counters. "Bla bla" Counters always go capitalized as the specific name they are, while non-specific counters are not capitalized.

 

For this there are 2 exceptions (this is accounting for the age of print AKA yes PSCT is keeping this pattern). "Colosseum - Cage of the Gladiator Beasts" and "Number 51" are the only cards in the game that just say "Counters" capitalized without naming said counters; yet they both have in common that their usage of the counters themselves says "for each of these Counters" as to not matter what other kinds placed in what other ways remain on the card.

 

Other than those 2, "Counter Cleaner" and "Gate Blocker" are all about stopping or deleting counters of all kinds, regardless of names or ways they were placed.

 

It is worth mentioning that "Des Mosquito" and "Metal Shooter" gain ATK "for each of these counters" setting their self-earned ones apart, yet without capitalizing or especially naming them. This holds up in the "Des Mosquito" reprint of Battle Pack 3 with PSCT.

 

That accounts for 6, the remaining 12 cards are the following. The ones bolded are the ones I know exist in PSCT. None of these specify they need to use the counters they themselves named and/or produced.

- B.E.S. Big Core

- B.E.S. Crystal Core

- B.E.S. Covered Core

- B.E.S. Big Core MK-2

- B.E.S. Tetran

- BOXer

- Miracle Jurassic Egg

- Magic Reflector

- Ancient Gear Castle

- Kickfire

- Dark Catapulter

- Ballon Lizard

 

Now, on to a couple rulings here.

 

1 ) Seems like effects that continuously negate face-up cards that can have counters on them (Skill Drain, Royal Decree, Trapstun, etc), mainly Spell Counters, causes them to drop them, locking away their ability to even carry them. I am trying to find examples of the same negation scenario when it comes to kinds of counters that are forced onto cards (namely A-Counters). Nothing I've found says anything about this, and I'd like to know what happens and why.

 

2 ) Counter Cleaner removes all types of counters.~

Based on this last one, mention of just counters implies all types.

Now with that in mind, we know specifically named counters can't be used as other kinds of counters (obviously), but what about the cards I listed above?

Are they allowed to be sped-up by using other kinds of counters imposed on them (like Spell Counters used as general unnamed counters)? After all Counter Cleaner seems to work that way (affecting any types of counters because of the way it addresses them). If not, why is that?

 

 

 

 

I'm pretty sure there was something else I was gonna ask about this subject, but I'll leave it at that for now. 

I think I had asked a bit of this in the past, but this is the most elaborated I've made things.

I'll take a crack at this.

 

The territory in the way that counters explicitly work has not been made clear by any particular rulings, so this is my interpretation given the information and a quick set of googling (and you've been very thorough, which I appreciate.):

 

As far as cards "dropping" forcibly gained counters, the reason that the counter remains on the card probably has something to do with the fact that it is the effect of another card putting counters on that card. The reason that Spell Counters "drop" when their associated card's effects are negated is because "capacity" for Spell Counters is dictated on a per-card basis (i.e. when the card says "place 1 Spell Counter on this card"). Further research suggests that most cards are like this, with the only ones retaining said counters are the ones that force counters onto other cards.

 

In short, by negating the ABILITY to place counters, the game treats that as the inability to RETAIN counters of that type as well. This is not the case with forced counters, as they disregard that requirement of the card itself to produce those counters.

 

As far as the second question, the answer is a flat no. The kinds of counters these cards generate are, in the logic of the game, unique to the cards generated. A Magic Reflector counter placed on a B.E.S. monster, for example, would not apply the B.E.S. monster's effect, since that counter was not generated as a result of the B.E.S. monster specifically.

 

Hope this helped! Let me know if you need clarification or if this makes no sense.

[Sleepy]

I'll take a crack at this.

 

The territory in the way that counters explicitly work has not been made clear by any particular rulings, so this is my interpretation given the information and a quick set of googling (and you've been very thorough, which I appreciate.):

 

As far as cards "dropping" forcibly gained counters, the reason that the counter remains on the card probably has something to do with the fact that it is the effect of another card putting counters on that card. The reason that Spell Counters "drop" when their associated card's effects are negated is because "capacity" for Spell Counters is dictated on a per-card basis (i.e. when the card says "place 1 Spell Counter on this card"). Further research suggests that most cards are like this, with the only ones retaining said counters are the ones that force counters onto other cards.

 

In short, by negating the ABILITY to place counters, the game treats that as the inability to RETAIN counters of that type as well. This is not the case with forced counters, as they disregard that requirement of the card itself to produce those counters.

 

As far as the second question, the answer is a flat no. The kinds of counters these cards generate are, in the logic of the game, unique to the cards generated. A Magic Reflector counter placed on a B.E.S. monster, for example, would not apply the B.E.S. monster's effect, since that counter was not generated as a result of the B.E.S. monster specifically.

 

Hope this helped! Let me know if you need clarification or if this makes no sense.

 

The second question's answer I thought was gonna be a no because it'd be highly unsafe with card effects being harder to restrict, especially in addition with the most prolific kinds of counters like Spell Counters or Fog Counters. Though as you said, Konami has never addressed the specifics before. The cards are rarely brought up to begin with and I am trying to get all the corners for the sake of knowledge rather than asking about a scenario coming up in a duel like questions for Konami typically go.

 

For the counter dropping topic I personally think there's an unwritten effect in Spell Counters saying "This card can have Spell Counters". Most Spell Counter effects give themselves the Counters with the exception of Mandragora, Magical Apprentice, and Pitch Black Power Stone (I made this one without a specific search unlike with my first comment because I am kind of on my way out right now, so sorry if I miss something else). Those 3 cards specify cards that can already carry Spell Counters as the only legit targets so Spell Counters can't accidentally end up in any other cards. Plus, said potential targets also already have the disposition to hold them programmed in.

 

Wouldn't be the first time unwritten clauses are not added in, like how Equip Spells target and equip themselves but that is kind of a given so the text often skips that and starts up with "The equipped monster . . . ." So I could see it.

 

When it comes to other kinds (Fog, A, Venom, Predator, Ice, etc), I confess I've never seen them under negation so I'm not entirely sure on what happens. I should have gone to YGOPro to test before this since I have no idea. If it doesn't drop the counters to negate the card, then it would mean they work as lingering effects/conditions and that different kinds of counters have their own rulings, which aren't really explained in detail and are left for players to figure out which is which with what they have similar to the cost vs effect confusion discard effects often created before PSCT where there's a general pattern and consensus, but not a detailed blueprint on how it really works.

 

 

Thank you for your answer. =D

^I did not think of these things specifically when I was writing the question xD

Mostly right now and after reading your reply did I get to work haha.

[JC39459]

So far in Yugioh, anything in the Spell/Trap Zone is not a monster. Specifically, Crystal Beasts' effects place them "as a Continuous Spell Card", which means they are no longer a monster, meaning they are unaffected by Dark Hole and the like.

 

However, Traps like Metal Reflect Slime, which Special Summon themselves as a Monster, have a clause in their effects saying "(This card is still treated as a Trap Card.)" meaning they are still vulnerable to a card like Mystical Space Typhoon.

Thank you, it seems I have been taken for a fool once too many times now. I hate when opponents deny the abilities of "Crystal Beast" monsters, even though it would seem to be common sense... These cards have extraordinary potential when used correctly and when used strategically can pull off some devastating blows, but I find every time I do successfully pull off a big move, everyone denies the Crystal Beast capabilities and reject the play.

 

Does a Crystal Beast in the S/T zone count as a Crystal Beast that you control?

For example: "If Rainbow Dragon is summoned to the field and the following turn I wish to destroy all Crystal Beasts I control to boost my Dragons attack by 1000atk per card sent to the graveyard, would my Continuous Spells be included in this effect and considering they have "Crsytal Beast" in their names, one would assume they are counted in this play performed."

 

I don't play this way, but if it is possible there is no reason why I shouldn't start using this strategy.

 

Thanks again!

[Forest Fire]

Does a Crystal Beast in the S/T zone count as a Crystal Beast that you control?

yes. their names don't change.

[Dova]

For example: "If Rainbow Dragon is summoned to the field and the following turn I wish to destroy all Crystal Beasts I control to boost my Dragons attack by 1000atk per card sent to the graveyard, would my Continuous Spells be included in this effect and considering they have "Crsytal Beast" in their names, one would assume they are counted in this play performed."

 

The key factor here is what comes after "Crystal Beast". Rainbow Dragon specifically says in the updated text ""Crystal Beast" monsters", which means that no, you cannot send cards from your Spell/Trap Zone to the Graveyard to boost its ATK. However, if it said ""Crystal Beast" cards", this encompasses both Spell/Traps and monsters, and so you could send them from your Spell/Trap Zone to your Graveyard.

 

When all is said and done, they are still Crystal Beasts. Just a different type of Crystal Beast.

[TF2_The_Scout]

I overlay two Noble Knights with Noble Arms equipped to them. Are the Noble Arms "sent to the graveyard" or "destroyed"?

[Dova]

I overlay two Noble Knights with Noble Arms equipped to them. Are the Noble Arms "sent to the graveyard" or "destroyed"?

 

As far as I am aware, they are destroyed, however this is neither destruction by battle, card effect, or to activate a card or effect.

[Azuriena]

I overlay two Noble Knights with Noble Arms equipped to them. Are the Noble Arms "sent to the graveyard" or "destroyed"?

 

They are destroyed and sent to the Graveyard in this case. If a card such as Macro Cosmos is applying its effect, they are banished instead of going to the Graveyard, but they are still destroyed.

 

Equip Cards are destroyed if the monster they were equipped to is no longer a valid target.

 

As far as I am aware, they are destroyed, however this is neither destruction by battle, card effect, or to activate a card or effect.

 

Not that cards are ever destroyed to activate a card or effect.

[~~~~]

Two very similar ruling questions:

• I control Statue of Anguish Pattern in my Monster Zone. I activate Shapesister and Summon it as a monster. Statue of Anguish Pattern's effect activates, and I target Paleozoic Opabinia. What happens?
• I control Statue of Anguish Pattern in my Monster Zone. I activate Shapesister and Summon it as a monster. Statue of Anguish Pattern's effect activates, and I target Elemental HERO Wildheart. What happens?

[Azuriena]

Two very similar ruling questions:

• I control Statue of Anguish Pattern in my Monster Zone. I activate Shapesister and Summon it as a monster. Statue of Anguish Pattern's effect activates, and I target Paleozoic Opabinia. What happens?
• I control Statue of Anguish Pattern in my Monster Zone. I activate Shapesister and Summon it as a monster. Statue of Anguish Pattern's effect activates, and I target Elemental HERO Wildheart. What happens?

 

Statue's effect that activates in the Monster Zone is a monster effect, not a Trap effect, so it won't destroy Opabinia in the first scenario, but it will destroy Wildheart in the second scenario.

[~~~~]

I know this is a question about a card that hasn't yet been released, but since De-Fusion has been ruled to not be able to summon back Starve Venom's fusion materials, would Transcendental Polymerization be able to summon back Starve Venom's fusion materials, or not?

[Azuriena]

I know this is a question about a card that hasn't yet been released, but since De-Fusion has been ruled to not be able to summon back Starve Venom's fusion materials, would Transcendental Polymerization be able to summon back Starve Venom's fusion materials, or not?

 

It won't be able to. The reason why De-Fusion can't Special Summon the monsters used as Fusion Materials for Starving Venom's Fusion Summon is because those monsters are in the Graveyard, and thus aren't the Fusion Materials "DARK monsters on the field, except Tokens" used for Starving Venom's Fusion Summon. Transcendental Polymerization, like De-Fusion, Special Summons Fusion Materials that aren't monsters on the field, so its effect that activates in the Graveyard can't target Starving Venom.

[Expelsword]

Can you use one monster from your hand and another from your Graveyard to summon an Infernoid monster? They say:

 

"Cannot be Normal Summoned/Set. Must be Special Summoned (from your hand or Graveyard) by banishing 2 "Infernoid" monsters from your hand or Graveyard while the total Levels and Ranks of all Effect Monsters you control are 8 or lower, and cannot be Special Summoned by other ways.Cannot be Normal Summoned/Set. Must be Special Summoned (from your hand or Graveyard) by banishing 2 "Infernoid" monsters from your hand or Graveyard while the total Levels and Ranks of all Effect Monsters you control are 8 or lower, and cannot be Special Summoned by other ways."

 

Everyone I know has played that you can mix and match for years, but I have a guy questioning it now because it says "or" and not "and/or" so you have to use either your hand or your Graveyard and not both. Have I (and DevPro) been mistaken?

[Azuriena]

Can you use one monster from your hand and another from your Graveyard to summon an Infernoid monster? They say:

 

"Cannot be Normal Summoned/Set. Must be Special Summoned (from your hand or Graveyard) by banishing 2 "Infernoid" monsters from your hand or Graveyard while the total Levels and Ranks of all Effect Monsters you control are 8 or lower, and cannot be Special Summoned by other ways.Cannot be Normal Summoned/Set. Must be Special Summoned (from your hand or Graveyard) by banishing 2 "Infernoid" monsters from your hand or Graveyard while the total Levels and Ranks of all Effect Monsters you control are 8 or lower, and cannot be Special Summoned by other ways."

 

Everyone I know has played that you can mix and match for years, but I have a guy questioning it now because it says "or" and not "and/or" so you have to use either your hand or your Graveyard and not both. Have I (and DevPro) been mistaken?

You can banish monsters from any combination of both. Generally, "or" and "and/or" are synonymous in YGO; the latter only exists for clarity. If a card only allowed you to use one or the other, it will make that distinction clear, not just omit "and/".

 

See how cards with effects that Ritual or Fusion Summon (e.g. Polymerization) will say something along the lines of "from your hand or field" rather than "from your hand and/or field," but will still allow you to use monsters from any combination of both.

[Expelsword]

That's the proof I was looking for, thank you.

[TF2_The_Scout]

Turn 1: I set a Toon monster.

Turn 3: I flip summon the Toon monster.

 

Am I able to attack or does "cannot attack the turn summoned" apply to flip summons?

[Azuriena]

Turn 1: I set a Toon monster.

Turn 3: I flip summon the Toon monster.

 

Am I able to attack or does "cannot attack the turn summoned" apply to flip summons?

 

It cannot attack in the case that it says "Cannot attack the turn it is Summoned." (Not just Special Summoned like some Toon monsters say.) Summons can be Normal, Flip, or Special Summons, so being Summoned does include being Flip Summoned.

[Svenny]

What would happen with a face-up "extra deck pendulum monster" (such as "Nirvana High Paladin" or "Odd-Eyes Rebellion Dragon") in the extra deck if you try to add it to your hand (eg "Rescue Hamster") or shuffle it into your deck (eg "Odd-Eyes Vortex Dragon")? Would it simply be turned face-down? If that's the case; does this count as it leaving the extra deck and then being put back?