Yu-Gi-Oh! Rulings Questions

[Zazubat]

It's not an activation requirement. It's targeting a monster and then becoming an equip card to it. The target must continue to be valid as long as Horn is faceup.

 

Just like Equip Spells that state "You can only Equip this card to a Warrior-Type monster", if Horn, which must target a Beast/Beast-Warrior, later is affecting a monster that is not of the appropriate Type, it can no longer be equipped to such a monster.

hm interesting, I assume this goes the same if the name changes? And so for Unions?

As for the "it's not an activation requirement", well it is, you can't activate it if you don't have a proper target, but the way I meant it is probably not that way you meant it.

[evilfusion]

hm interesting, I assume this goes the same if the name changes? And so for Unions?

 

Yes, if an Equip card can only be used with a specific monster's name/archetype, and the name changes, the equip should stop working because the target is no longer valid. Unions are the same because they (most of them) have to equip to specific Types.

[Zazubat]

Yes, if an Equip card can only be used with a specific monster's name/archetype, and the name changes, the equip should stop working because the target is no longer valid. Unions are the same because they (most of them) have to equip to specific Types.

Would they be destroyed, or would they simply not have the effect anymore?

[Cute Rotten Yoshika]

a union monster being treated as an equip card works exactly the same as any other equip card. it would be destroyed if the target is no longer valid

[evilfusion]

They would "fall off" (casual term). They'd no longer be equipped and would be sent to the Graveyard. They're not considered "destroyed".

 

Note that this rule only really applies to cards that equip. Continuous cards, like Limit Reverse, wont stop working if the target's name/stats/whatever change while it's on the Field.

[Zazubat]

They would "fall off" (casual term). They'd no longer be equipped and would be sent to the Graveyard. They're not considered "destroyed".

 

Note that this rule only really applies to cards that equip. Continuous cards, like Limit Reverse, wont stop working if the target's name/stats/whatever change while it's on the Field.

You read my mind, I was going to aks how it works for other cards. I assume by "fall off" you mean simply being sent to the Graveyard. An other question, I can't really find a good example, so let's make up a CC instead. Premature Burial also does what I want to know, so I'll use what it says: "Pay 800 Life Points to target 1 Warrior-Type monster in your Graveyard; Special Summon that target in face-up Attack Position and equip it with this card." Since it targets that monster if that card is than sent to the Graveyard because my target is no longer valid, changing the Type again, what happens to my monster? Will it "fall off" as well?

 

EDIT: An other question, is it true that if a card is returned to Deck from the field, it's effect won't activate that says "when this card is removed from the field"

[darkwolf777]

 

It depends on the card text.

 

If it says that "This card can only be equipped to a <Type> monster", then if the type changes, then it is no longer a valid monster to be equipped to it and it is destroyed. The way its written, it can only be equipped at any time to the monster of that type. Basically, the way its worded here refers to "The Card's" ability to be equipped to a monster.

 

If it says "Equip only to a <Type> monster.", then you can only equip it to a monster of that type, but if the type changes, then the card is NOT destroyed. This is because the way this is written here, you only have to equip it to a monster of that type, but it doesn't say that "it can only be equipped" to that type, so a type change is OK. In this case, the way it is worded here refers to "A Player's" ability to Equip the card.

 

Divine Sword - Phoenix Blade states "Equip only to a Warrior-Type Monster". Therefore, it the type of the equipped monster changes, Phoenix Blade will NOT be destroyed.

 

I said this about two years ago? geez.  In any case, this should still hold true, at least for Equip Spell Cards.

 

As for Traps that Equip like Horn of the Phantom Beast, whose text specifically "equips to that target", I'm pretty sure it will not stay equipped if the type changes as the target would no longer be correct.

[Blake]

I use Heroic Champion - Excalibur then equip Horn of the Unicorn.

 

Is its attack 4000 or 4700?

[Zazubat]

I use Heroic Champion - Excalibur then equip Horn of the Unicorn.

 

Is its ATK 4000 or 4700?

it's attack doesn't become anything, but it's ATK becomes 4700. Remember that original ATK is different from simply increasing the ATK, in case you used Excalibur's effect last it's ATK would become 4000.

[darkwolf777]

I use Heroic Champion - Excalibur then equip Horn of the Unicorn.

 

Is its attack 4000 or 4700?

 

When a monster's overall ATK/DEF stats are factored (doubled/halved) or "becomes" a set value, pre-existing alterations to the affected stat can no longer affect that card until the effects of that "factor/becomes" end.

 

Heroic Champion's OVERALL ATK becomes double its Original ATK.

 

If you use Heroic Champion - Excalibur then equip Horn of the Unicorn, its ATK will first become 4000, then gain 700 from Horn of the Unicorn, resulting in 4700 ATK.

 

If you equip Horn of the Unicorn and then use Heroic Champion - Excalibur, its ATK will be 2700 from Horn of the Unicorn, then Chamption's effect will set it to 4000, making Unicorn no longer affect its ATK (its DEF will still be affected).

[Miror B]

EDIT: An other question, is it true that if a card is returned to Deck from the field, it's effect won't activate that says "when this card is removed from the field"

Yes this is true. If a card is returned to the deck, none of its effects will trigger unless the effect specifies when returning to the deck, as with Serpentine Princess.

[Aix]

If a monster had the ability to inherently Summon itself from the Banished Zone and I Solemn Warning'd it, would it stay in the Banished Zone or would it go to the Graveyard?

[Miror B]

If a monster had the ability to inherently Summon itself from the Banished Zone and I Solemn Warning'd it, would it stay in the Banished Zone or would it go to the Graveyard?

Inherently? Like Grapha?

Then it would leave the banish zone (but not hit the field yet), get negated and go from limbo to the Graveyard.

[Aix]

Thanks.

[D.A._Sakuyamon]

Okay this is a hypothetical question.

 

Lets say there is a Cont.s Trap card with the following effect

 

Cards that are sent to the Graveyard are "considered" to be banished instead.

 

Please note the bold.

 

With the considered there, would this means cards would still be sent to the graveyard but not considered to go there?

 

Also, would effects that need to be activated by going to the graveyard not activate such as "Sangan" or Dark Worlds?

 

What about cards that activate their effect(s) when banished such as "Necroface". would they activate?

 

Would "Imperial Iron Wall" stop that effect?

[Zazubat]

Okay this is a hypothetical question.

 

Lets say there is a Cont.s Trap card with the following effect

 

Cards that are sent to the Graveyard are "considered" to be banished instead.

 

Please note the bold.

 

With the considered there, would this means cards would still be sent to the graveyard but not considered to go there?

 

Also, would effects that need to be activated by going to the graveyard not activate such as "Sangan" or Dark Worlds?

 

What about cards that activate their effect(s) when banished such as "Necroface". would they activate?

 

Would "Imperial Iron Wall" stop that effect?

considering (see what I did there) you're no having an actual Graveyard to go to, rather having a banished zone instead, any effect that would trigger would not happen. As for your question with what would happen with cards that activate, yeah I suppose they would, as they are considered being banished by your card effect. Imperial Iron Wall and that card conflict, so it would go to the Graveyard, but not be considered banished since it can't be. Sangan wouldn't activate as it's no longer considered to be sent to the graveyard anymore.

[evilfusion]

Okay this is a hypothetical question.

 

Lets say there is a Cont.s Trap card with the following effect

 

Cards that are sent to the Graveyard are "considered" to be banished instead.

 

Please note the bold.

 

With the considered there, would this means cards would still be sent to the graveyard but not considered to go there?

 

Also, would effects that need to be activated by going to the graveyard not activate such as "Sangan" or Dark Worlds?

 

What about cards that activate their effect(s) when banished such as "Necroface". would they activate?

 

Would "Imperial Iron Wall" stop that effect?

 

I dont think Yu-Gi-Oh has a mechanic where cards are "considered" something they're not. I suppose the closest equivalent is "this card is TREATED as X", but even then, that's usually for being treated as a Normal/Effect monster with Gemini monsters, and not where the card was sent to.

 

But yes, hypothetically, Sangan and DWs would not activate, as they are 'considered' banished, not sent to the Graveyard. They would physically be in the Graveyard, but be treated as in the RFG zone. They can be recovered by cards that affect banished cards, and wouldn't count as cards in the Graveyard. For all intents and purposes, there's no reason to make that effect over simply using Macro Cosmos to ACTUALLY banish them.

 

Imperial Iron would theoretically neutralize the effect because while the cards are physically being sent to the Graveyard, they're being treated as being banished instead, and since cards can't be banished due to Iron Wall, they can't be treated as being banished...or something like that.

[Zazubat]

I dont think Yu-Gi-Oh has a mechanic where cards are "considered" something they're not. I suppose the closest equivalent is "this card is TREATED as X", but even then, that's usually for being treated as a Normal/Effect monster with Gemini monsters, and not where the card was sent to.

 

But yes, hypothetically, Sangan and DWs would not activate, as they are 'considered' banished, not sent to the Graveyard. They would physically be in the Graveyard, but be treated as in the RFG zone. They can be recovered by cards that affect banished cards, and wouldn't count as cards in the Graveyard. For all intents and purposes, there's no reason to make that effect over simply using Macro Cosmos to ACTUALLY banish them.

 

Imperial Iron would theoretically neutralize the effect because while the cards are physically being sent to the Graveyard, they're being treated as being banished instead, and since cards can't be banished due to Iron Wall, they can't be treated as being banished...or something like that.

seems you and I got the same idea of work it would work :D You just explain it more good :P

[darkwolf777]

I propose such a thing doesn't exist, shouldn't exist, and that you shouldn't try to make cards like that.  Stay within what you know about the game before trying to create something like this.

 

If you're going to create your own terminology, then asking a question here about it is somewhat pointless.  It would be up to you to define the terms you're creating and how they would interact with the main game.  These things you would have to make clear in your own card topics so that people understand what you're going for by using the term "considered".

 

I can't get around to why you would want such an effect, nor can I give you an answer as to how your non-yugioh lore you yourself are defining would affect the real game.  The fact that you have to ask us these questions shows that you yourself don't understand what you're trying to create here and therefore shouldn't be trying to create it.

[D.A._Sakuyamon]

I propose such a thing doesn't exist, shouldn't exist, and that you shouldn't try to make cards like that.  Stay within what you know about the game before trying to create something like this.

 

If you're going to create your own terminology, then asking a question here about it is somewhat pointless.  It would be up to you to define the terms you're creating and how they would interact with the main game.  These things you would have to make clear in your own card topics so that people understand what you're going for by using the term "considered".

 

I can't get around to why you would want such an effect, nor can I give you an answer as to how your non-yugioh lore you yourself are defining would affect the real game.  The fact that you have to ask us these questions shows that you yourself don't understand what you're trying to create here and therefore shouldn't be trying to create it.

 

Not sure if your trying to be rude or not but that doesn't matter.

 

I asked those questions to confirm (as I often do) what I thought would happen.

 

This was so with everything excluding the question in regards to "Imperial Iron Wall". 

[darkwolf777]

Not sure if your trying to be rude or not but that doesn't matter.

 

I asked those questions to confirm (as I often do) what I thought would happen.

 

This was so with everything excluding the question in regards to "Imperial Iron Wall". 

 

Except in this case, such a term doesn't exist.  Nothing that currently exists can be compared to what you're attempting to do.  There are no proper answers that can be given to you about it.  Therefore, for you to create your own term and how it will alter the core gameplay, you will need to explain such a term and how you would want it to react in those situations.  Its not really something that can be answered for you.

 

If I had an answer for you, you know I would've just told you.  Since I don't think there is a right answer, explaining why I believe that is the next best thing.

[Agro]

The only time the word "considered" has been used in card text was for lore or for "Droll & Lock Bird" to make sure people knew that Drawing was considered adding a card from the Deck to the hand.

 

That word replaces the term "treated as" in certain cards that used it in the same manner, such as "Ante".

 

Though I'm not sure, I think that you have to include the one for Droll & Lock Bird else drawing isn't considered. Darkwolf, if you could clear that up for me, that'd be helpful.

 

However, the term "treated as" is still being used, not as explanation, but as an effect. (and to treat SS as FS, etc, so idk)

 

Here's a short list of things that other things can be considered to be:

Normal Monster

Effect Monster

Different Name

Being 2 Tributes for a Tribute Summon

Tuner

Part of an Archetype

Fusion Summons (May be under the same category as Droll & Lock Bird, however)

Type

Attribute

How Something was Summoned (Evolsaurs treated as being summoned by Evoltiles)

The Field (GK Priest makes it treated as Necrovalley)

Damage (Battle Damage -> Effect)

Level

Result of a Coin Toss (Arcana)

Equip Spell Card

 

So really, I don't think it's hard to imagine a card that makes cards sent to the Graveyard treated as having been banished instead. Especially looking at the Evoltile one. Especially if we're talking CC here.

[evilfusion]

But in all the above cases, what something is "treated as" is clearly defined how it would work. Evolsaurs treated as being SSed by Evoltiles would Trigger their respective effects regarding if they were SSed by an Evoltile. Glad Beasts w/ Test Tiger are the same way.

 

Having names treated as something else indicates it has that name and support specific to that name may be used with that card. Treating something as an Effect/Normal monster gives it the respective support, etc.

 

How do you explain the rulings behind treating something as being sent to a different location of play than it actually is physically going to? Why do you use this type of effect opposed to ACTUALLY sending it to that location? Why would you only treat something as being banished instead of actually banishing it?

 

A similarly nonsensical and complicated concept would be to say "cards returned to the hand are treated as being returned to the Deck instead". How does that work? The cards are physically in your hand, but you treat them as being in the Deck? Then why didn't you just say "If a card would be returned to the hand, it is returned to the Deck instead"? The only purpose would be to prevent cards that activate when returned to hand/removed from Field, but why just "treat them as" returning to the Deck?

 

That's what darkwolf is getting at. Such a concept doesn't exist in the game. Perfect answers can't be given because it's nonsensical in terms of current game mechanics. All other examples of being "treated as" do not involve treating cards as being placed in a location other than where the physical card is going. If you invent the concept entirely, it's up to you to define its rules and interactions, and if you don't understand your own rules/interactions based on how the current game mechanics work, then you probably shouldn't be inventing changes to game mechanics for custom cards.

[darkwolf777]

For Droll and Lock Bird, the word "considered" is within parenthesis.  Any text inside parenthesis are not lore related.  In Fact, it is the most plain text you can have.  Parenthesis text shouldn't even be there.  It was added with the Problem Solving Card Text and is simply a way to speak to the player io clarify something in plain English that the rulebook should already explain, or that should be understood by the effect itself, but most players don't tend to understand.

 

Everyone should know that "Drawing a card is still adding a card to the hand", it just makes sense.  Not everyone understands that though and hence why its clarified.  It has nothing to do with lore.

 

Now, treating a statistic as something else where "X is being treated as Y" exists in Yugioh, where X is replaced with Y.  That's not a difficult concept to grasp.  When a monster is treated as if it were summoned by an X monster, those rulings are established and everyone understands them.  It is not the same as this situation though so it cannot be compared to it

 

What Seigfried is saying that (or from what i'm understanding) "Treat this card as if it is going to another physical location, even though its not, and would still go to that location and exist in that location after."  What does this mean?  Do effects that activate when being sent to the Graveyard no longer activate?  Since the card still physically went to the Graveyard, shouldn't they still activate anyway?  While in the Graveyard, are they still considered to be banished or was it a one-time thing with the sending portion only?  There's all sorts of questions that can be asked about it.  It just seems like a concept that does not have a definition in Yugioh, and has nothing that can relate to it to give it a proper ruling, and must therefore be defined by you.

[Zazubat]

This is somewhat unrelated, but what about cards that say "You can Special Summon this card (from your hand/Graveyard etc.)"? That's still lore infomation isn't it?