Yu-Gi-Oh! Rulings Questions

[Zazubat]

When a card's trigger uses "When... you can..." then the effect can miss the timing. Otherwise it cannot.

So Megalo would be able to miss the timing then? As for what Miror said, that seems weird, because I didn't know that cards could make new chains, I just thought that when a chain is finished, the game state would open again, and all cards would be lost. I guess that makes somewhat sense in the case of mandatory effects needing to activate, but a prevented by effects like this. Alright, I think I got everything covered that I needed to know here, just want to make sure that Megalo can miss the timing or not.

[evilfusion]

Megalo won't miss the timing because its Trigger Effect only happens if Summoned by its Ignition Effect, which can't be higher than Chain Link 1. So when Megalo is Summoned, being Summoned by its effect is ALWAYS the last event to resolve in the chain.

[Miror B]

So Megalo would be able to miss the timing then? As for what Miror said, that seems weird, because I didn't know that cards could make new chains, I just thought that when a chain is finished, the game state would open again, and all cards would be lost. I guess that makes somewhat sense in the case of mandatory effects needing to activate, but a prevented by effects like this. Alright, I think I got everything covered that I needed to know here, just want to make sure that Megalo can miss the timing or not.

If game state was open after a chain finished I could use the effect of Rescue Rabbit summoned by Laggia before the opponent could veiler or torrential :3

Yea after a chain state is closed and you check for triggers.

Megalo CAN miss timing, but I can't think of any situation whatsoever where it will since it's ignition effect can't be CL2 or higher.

[Zazubat]

Megalo won't miss the timing because its Trigger Effect only happens if Summoned by its Ignition Effect, which can't be higher than Chain Link 1. So when Megalo is Summoned, being Summoned by its effect is ALWAYS the last event to resolve in the chain.

It's Trigger is first? How does that work? Or am I misunderstanding what you're saying here completly.

[Miror B]

It's Trigger is first? How does that work? Or am I misunderstanding what you're saying here completly.

You're misunderstanding, he means Megalo's summon is always the last thing to happen so the trigger will always be met. There's literally no situation where it can miss timing.

[evilfusion]

It's Trigger is first? How does that work? Or am I misunderstanding what you're saying here completly.

 

It has an Ignition Effect to send 2 WATERs as a cost, and SS it.

 

It has a Trigger Effect that activates if Summoned that way.

 

For something to miss the timing, it must have an optional Trigger Effect (using "When") that is acheived mid-chain, or mid-action (such as Synchro or Tribute Summoning).

 

Ignition Effects are Spell Speed 1. They cannot chain to other effects. Therefore, Megalo's Ignition Effect (sending the WATER to SS itself from hand) can only be activated as Chain Link 1. Because Chains resolve backwards, the last link to resolve will be Megalo's SS effect. Since the last thing to resolve was Megalo's Summon by its own effect, it will not miss the timing with its Trigger Effect.

[Zazubat]

You're misunderstanding, he means Megalo's summon is always the last thing to happen so the trigger will always be met. There's literally no situation where it can miss timing.

can't you respond to the trigger effect? I mean, it makes sense that you can't with the summon, but with the trigger you should be able to right?

[evilfusion]

can't you respond to the trigger effect? I mean, it makes sense that you can't with the summon, but with the trigger you should be able to right?

 

Yes, you can respond to the Trigger Effect, but that won't make it miss the timing. You're just chaining an effect to it.

 

EDIT: You CAN use a card to respond to its Summoning, like Torrential or Bottomless, though. The last event to resolve was a Summoning.

[Zazubat]

For something to miss the timing, it must have an optional Trigger Effect (using "When") that is acheived mid-chain, or mid-action (such as Synchro or Tribute Summoning).

Can you give an example of a something missing the timing like above. Both mid-chain and mid-action, that should make it clearer.

[evilfusion]

Can you give an example of a something missing the timing like above. Both mid-chain and mid-action, that should make it clearer.

 

Naturia Cliff will SS a Naturia from Deck when it is sent to Graveyard. However, it says "When this card is sent from the Field to Graveyard: You can..."

 

Mid-action:

 

If you use Cliff in a Synchro/Tribute Summon, Cliff was sent to the Graveyard as a Synchro Material, and then the Synchro Monster was Summoned. The last action to occur was a Synchro Monster being Summoned, NOT Cliff going to the Graveyard. Cliff being optional misses the timing.

 

Mid-chain:

 

Cliff has been successfully Summoned by Call of the Haunted at a previous time. My opponent activates Heavy Storm. I chain Mystical Space Typhoon and target Call of the Haunted.

 

Link 1: Heavy Storm

Link 2: MST, targeting Call.

 

The chain resolves backwards.

 

Link 2: MST destroys Call of the Haunted, destroying Cliff.

Link 1: Heavy Storm destroys all S/Ts on Field.

 

The last event to resolve was Heavy Storm. But Call and Cliff were destroyed when Link 2 had resolved. Cliff's optional Trigger Effect will miss the timing, because another card was resolving when it had been sent to the Graveyard.

[Zazubat]

I always thought that cards could only miss the timing if something happened in the chain, as Summoning does not start a chain. I don't get why it could miss the timing if no chains were to happen, but it seems that it can. I learn something new every day. Though I get now why cards can't resolve if something happened to make them Trigger during a chain above them.

[evilfusion]

In the cases of using as Tribute/Synchro Material, that's because you send the monster(s) to the Graveyard before playing the monster from hand/Extra Deck.

[Zazubat]

In the cases of using as Tribute/Synchro Material, that's because you send the monster(s) to the Graveyard before playing the monster from hand/Extra Deck.

so it isn't it's own chain, but it can still miss the timing because it did that action to preform the Tribute Summon/Synchro Summon by sending other cards to the Greveyard? I suppose fusion and ritual don't work this way. What about other cards that do this, like for a SS does it work the same way here?

[evilfusion]

It would be the same thing if Cliff (or other Optional "when sent to Graveyard" Trigger Effects) was used in a Ritual or Fusion Summon, actually. Sending such a monster as a cost for anything also makes it miss the timing.

 

Right, it doesn't start a chain, but it's part of the Summoning method to send the costs/materials before playing the monster.

[Zazubat]

It would be the same thing if Cliff (or other Optional "when sent to Graveyard" Trigger Effects) was used in a Ritual or Fusion Summon, actually. Sending such a monster as a cost for anything also makes it miss the timing.

 

Right, it doesn't start a chain, but it's part of the Summoning method to send the costs/materials before playing the monster.

Since you always use other cards for Fusion and Ritual, I don't think it's possible for it not to miss the timing unless I'm mistaken.

[Cute Rotten Yoshika]

you dont necessarily use other cards for fusion summon. think of neos's contact fusion, glad beast tag fusion, chimeratech's fusion. stuff like that. its simpler to say that when an optional effect would be triggered because the monster leaves the field for a summon, it will likely miss the timing.

[evilfusion]

It's not really "using another card" that makes such cards miss the timing. It's using them as a cost (maybe "as fodder" would be more precise) to perform a Summoning or other action.

[Zazubat]

you dont necessarily use other cards for fusion summon. think of neos's contact fusion, glad beast tag fusion, chimeratech's fusion. stuff like that. its simpler to say that when an optional effect would be triggered because the monster leaves the field for a summon, it will likely miss the timing.

I know nothing about other kinds of fusion than regular old Polymerization, so you will have to explain what those mean.

 

 

It's not really "using another card" that makes such cards miss the timing. It's using them as a cost (maybe "as fodder" would be more precise) to perform a Summoning or other action.

I don't quite get where you're going with this. I really just meant to the Fusion to happen with Polymerization.

[Cute Rotten Yoshika]

neos (and glad beasts) perform fusions by sending the materials to the deck. there is no card that enables that. same with chimeratech and sending cyber dragon+machines from the field to the grave. these are all inherent summons but they will still cause cards to miss their timing.

[Zazubat]

neos (and glad beasts) perform fusions by sending the materials to the deck. there is no card that enables that. same with chimeratech and sending cyber dragon+machines from the field to the grave. these are all inherent summons but they will still cause cards to miss their timing.

so what you're saying is that some fusions can make those happen without the need for an other card? Lolwut, where I have been for the past 6 years or what ever.

[Cute Rotten Yoshika]

yes. neos fusions, glad beast fusions, chimeratech, and some others dont require polymerization or other cards with the same function. they will still make cards miss timing because the last action to occur is a monster being summoned, not a monster leaving the field.

[evilfusion]

so what you're saying is that some fusions can make those happen without the need for an other card? Lolwut, where I have been for the past 6 years or what ever.

 

Yes, some Fusion Monsters do not require another card to Summon them.

 

The XYZ Fusions (using X-Head Cannon, Y-Dragon Head, and Z-Metal Tank) were Summoned by banishing the Materials from the Field. You did not use a Spell Card to Summon them. Other such Fusions are the ones that use Elemental HERO Neos and Neo-Spacians, by returning the Materials from the Field to the Deck (again, no Polymerization). Gladiator Beasts work the same way.

[Zazubat]

yes. neos fusions, glad beast fusions, chimeratech, and some others dont require polymerization or other cards with the same function. they will still make cards miss timing because the last action to occur is a monster being summoned, not a monster leaving the field.

interesting, I guess that will be something I have to remember. Now, I think that's all the info I needed for this time. So enough of wasting your guys' time.

[Cute Rotten Yoshika]

i always forget the vwxyz guys even though theyre a lot of fun. probably because they were the first to do it and it was a long long time ago.

[newhat]

Is declaring a Type and an Attribute part of the effect of Abyssal Designator, or an activation cost?