Yu-Gi-Oh! Rulings Questions

[Zazubat]

I do not provide links because I don't go out looking for links to give my answers.

 

I know from experience. Knowledge of many rulings in order to shape out and solve the puzzle of the core gameplay mechanics Konami does not tell you is something i've done over many years. It makes it easy to give rulings on cards that have no rulings and even Anime/Manga cards and how they would interact with the real game.

 

I've burst many bubbles in new card topics.

Which was why you were wrong that one time. I don't except everyone to do the same thing, but just "from memory" is not a good answer to me. But you do what you want, if it's wrong somebody will probably correct you, though when I ask if people have proof, proof from their "memory" is not good enough.

[darkwolf777]

Which was why you were wrong that one time. I don't except everyone to do the same thing, but just "from memory" is not a good answer to me. But you do what you want, if it's wrong somebody will probably correct you, though when I ask if people have proof, proof from their "memory" is not good enough.

 

That would just get you kicked out of DN if you tried that on me while I was an admin ;p

 

The next is to email Konami and ask them and stop asking us if you don't want to believe me :o

 

Lastly, you will NOT find the answers for everything because they dont exist. Official sources from Konami are few. Stop relying on Konami to get your answers. Stop relying on the wikia to tell you everything because that can be misinformed as well as it is not an official source and is written by misinformed and unsure people like yourself. I don't edit the wiki myself with any information I have. Stop being so doubtful. I gain nothing from steering you wrong on purpose and saying I am 100% sure.

[evilfusion]

If you want links, check Yugioh Wiki. Anything I can't reasonably deduce on my own, I check Wiki for verification on that card or similar cards.

 

Seriously, the game was WAY harder to rule on when they didnt have the Problem-Solving card text, because in addition to having to look for vaguely cited sources like Wiki or other sites (some more prone to outright falsehoods than others), the card text was HORRIBLE in distinguishing subleties. You could figure out the subleties most of the time, other times it wasn't so simple.

 

But what seems to be our frustration with you is that you are unsatisfied with explanations on mechanics or semantics, which are rarely printed anywhere. It's a major flaw, I agree, but the people who understand it won't be able to do much more for you than explain it. We can't really find a source on it because most of the time, that source doesn't actually exist in an easily accessible form.

 

And let's avoid turning the discussion into a "You said *insert incorrect generalization*", "No, I didnt say anything of the sort" argument.

[Zazubat]

That would just get you kicked out of DN if you tried that on me while I was an admin ;p

 

The next is to email Konami and ask them and stop asking us if you don't want to believe me :o

 

Lastly, you will NOT find the answers for everything because they dont exist. Official sources from Konami are few. Stop relying on Konami to get your answers. Stop relying on the wikia to tell you everything because that can be misinformed as well as it is not an official source and is written by misinformed and unsure people like yourself. I don't edit the wiki myself with any information I have. Stop being so doubtful. I gain nothing from steering you wrong on purpose and saying I am 100% sure.

The thing I don't get is the reason you take it so hardly. I mean DN is one thing, but when I ask on a forum it's an other thing. I obviously won't say that to an judge that he is wrong because he rules it that way, and from what he says, that's how it should be. And still sometimes they are wrong. And I can complain all I want to them that it's wrong, but if they say that's the rule that's the rule. Secondly, I was not "relying on the wikia and Konami" necessarily. I mean Konami makes the damn rules, if you can't rely on them, then who? If I found a source just like yours that said that, would I know you were telling the truth? Would I know you got it directly from a Konami certified rulebook or a rule on a site that directly leads you to an official statement on the fact? No, unless you posted those links as I asked you (in general really) to give me the real source so I know it wasn't just from your memory. I am in no way saying that what you said is wrong, though things like rules is something you should double check. I'm really tired of this now, and I don't care how you do it, I can't control how you write these things, though I would personally find a rule that says so, if somebody asked for it, instead of just saying "that's from my memory, so it's right".

 

/discussing

 

If you want links, check Yugioh Wiki. Anything I can't reasonably deduce on my own, I check Wiki for verification on that card or similar cards.

 

Seriously, the game was WAY harder to rule on when they didnt have the Problem-Solving card text, because in addition to having to look for vaguely cited sources like Wiki or other sites (some more prone to outright falsehoods than others), the card text was HORRIBLE in distinguishing subleties. You could figure out the subleties most of the time, other times it wasn't so simple.

 

But what seems to be our frustration with you is that you are unsatisfied with explanations on mechanics or semantics, which are rarely printed anywhere. It's a major flaw, I agree, but the people who understand it won't be able to do much more for you than explain it. We can't really find a source on it because most of the time, that source doesn't actually exist in an easily accessible form.

 

And let's avoid turning the discussion into a "You said *insert incorrect generalization*", "No, I didnt say anything of the sort" argument.

Of course it's hard to get a valid source, but at the same time this game has existed for over 10 years, if Konami doens't have themselves all rules, then that's a flaw on their part. I agree that checking for real sources is hard too, but giving me some sort of indication wouldn't hurt. I mean, if you're checking anyways, why not provide a comment from their, or a link or something?

 

Edit I want to say that most people go in here, ask, get the answer then leave. If the answer is incorrect, unless theres a source they might have gotten wrong info since it's simply from memory. though asking for proof, either when 2 people are saying differnt things, or someone is not 100% sure, they will get the right answer. This is also why that I am working on a project that would make getting the right ruling easier, though I dont want to spoil too much :P

 

The project was an idea before this btw, it's not directly linked to this, though above does help to prove my point towards the project.

 

I hate to go on but I am stubburn (spelled) and I like to prove my point. I swear that this will be the last thing said. So, lets make an example where thought and memory just inst good enough. I need proof that the border can be crossed so I ask someone. He says you cant. Though should I trust him? Does h have proof? If you were to cross the btorderthat would be illigal and you cant just say that you got info from your memory, that you get you in jail. Of course law and yugioh are far between each other though you cannot disagree with that fact.

[Miror B]

The thing I don't get is the reason you take it so hardly.

Nobody's taking it so hardly, you just keep arguing and telling us to go out looking for info when you're the one that wants to know.

[Zazubat]

Of course I want to know it, thats the whole reason to ask in here (an other thing related to my project). If you werent to find the exact proof you were looking for, then you might as well do it yourself, which honestly I dont mind though it's nicer when people do it for you ;) In any case, the point still stands for me that when I ask if people would be wiling to find proof, they can either give a link or not respond at least so we wont énd ourselves in this discussion.

[Cute Rotten Yoshika]

or you can just accept that there isnt always proof and you should take people on their word when theyre offering to help out of the kindness of their heart

[Zazubat]

or you can just accept that there isnt always proof and you should take people on their word when theyre offering to help out of the kindness of their heart

Let me just remind you of the whole reason behind this threaed: To answer questions about the rules. If there is no ruling ( which is according to the wikia, though I had to go do it myself) then how can I tale their word on something that doesnt exist?

 

 

[Kazooie]

Let me just remind you of the whole reason behind this threaed: To answer questions about the rules. If there is no ruling ( which is according to the wikia, though I had to go do it myself) then how can I tale their word on something that doesnt exist?

 

Logical thinking. And when it comes to that in Yugioh Rulings, darkwolf and evilfusion are two of the best.

[Miror B]

Let me just remind you of the whole reason behind this threaed: To answer questions about the rules. If there is no ruling ( which is according to the wikia, though I had to go do it myself) then how can I tale their word on something that doesnt exist?

If there is no ruling you take your best answer until a viable source says otherwise.

In this case, Darkwolf is probably one of the best.

[Cute Rotten Yoshika]

because thats the state of over 90% of this game. if you arent willing to accept that some things are unwritten but still true then play a different game?

 

let me remind you that the people in this thread who choose to answer others questions are under no obligation to do so. do not be inconsiderate to them because they are taking time from their lives to do this when they dont need to. do not accuse them of trying to trick you or anything like that. do not try to question the skills of two very good players who are helping less skilled people because they want to. just be nice. it isnt difficult to do.

[evilfusion]

I want to say that most people go in here, ask, get the answer then leave. If the answer is incorrect, unless theres a source they might have gotten wrong info since it's simply from memory. though asking for proof, either when 2 people are saying differnt things, or someone is not 100% sure, they will get the right answer. This is also why that I am working on a project that would make getting the right ruling easier, though I dont want to spoil too much :P

 

The project was an idea before this btw, it's not directly linked to this, though above does help to prove my point towards the project.

 

I hate to go on but I am stubburn (spelled) and I like to prove my point. I swear that this will be the last thing said. So, lets make an example where thought and memory just inst good enough. I need proof that the border can be crossed so I ask someone. He says you cant. Though should I trust him? Does h have proof? If you were to cross the btorderthat would be illigal and you cant just say that you got info from your memory, that you get you in jail. Of course law and yugioh are far between each other though you cannot disagree with that fact.

 

Of course, simply justifying a ruling with "from my memory" is ridiculous, but darkwolf also explains the logic or the workings of the mechanic, so he's not just asspulling an answer and saying "I'm right because I'm me". But when asked "how do you know?", experience is a proper answer considering most cards and rulings consistently follow the same logic, especially if that logic is game mechanics at its root. Those that don't are very rare, and usually have specific rulings stating as such.

 

Asking for proof is just an obnoxious way of saying "I don't know the answer, but I think you're wrong (or at the very least "I don't think you're right")". The proof that most people can show you, such as a link or quote from Wiki, you could just as easily have found yourself. If you can think of a specific reason why the given ruling seems off, then bringing that up and asking for the difference between how the two cards are ruled is perfectly valid, and may in fact show the ruling given was incorrect, and in even better cases, reveal one of the subleties behind how some concepts work.

 

I don't even get where the "crossing the border" analogy plays into this, because whether something is physically possible (but against the law) is in very much a different league than "how card effects work in a game". There are innumerable ways to physically do something not allowed in Yu-Gi-Oh, and that's partly why the thread exists: To clear up what is possible, or how cards interact, IF YOU FOLLOW THE RULES.

[Cute Rotten Yoshika]

this game is both fairly complex and not well documented so situations like needing to trust people on their word is part of the territory. a good player is one who not only knows how the game works but is willing to trust that others do too until its made apparent that this isnt the case. and even then the response is to teach with kindness and respect so that players can become better. but respect goes both ways. it isnt correct or fair to assume that someone is trying to trick and its also unneeded to demand proof when, as has been stated, if it exists at all its quality is not guaranteed and you can always find it yourself.

 

being a good sport is important. if you want to play with cards but dont want to be nice to other people, try solitaire.

[Zazubat]

this game is both fairly complex and not well documented so situations like needing to trust people on their word is part of the territory. a good player is one who not only knows how the game works but is willing to trust that others do too until its made apparent that this isnt the case. and even then the response is to teach with kindness and respect so that players can become better. but respect goes both ways. it isnt correct or fair to assume that someone is trying to trick and its also unneeded to demand proof when, as has been stated, if it exists at all its quality is not guaranteed and you can always find it yourself.

being a good sport is important. if you want to play with cards but dont want to be nice to other people, try solitaire.

You make a good point and as said previously, wolf is the most respected in here, and I learned that evil (oops, I got it mixed up, it's actually Miror) it's is an admin so any reason why you should lie or not say thecorrect thing is silly but as with ruling we are just human and we can be wrong sometimes. It's the first time I ask for proof.. And like this very weird rule that is d not explained in the ruleboo by Konami can be shady. It's mostly Konami fault for not having a rulebook that doesnt just eplain the basics and is why they have to keep realeasing tutorials on how the gam works over 10 years later. It's such a complex game that people have multiple looks toward it. And since you both all seem t agree I should probably have acceped that. Alright great talk, you might not agree with me though I now have an other reason to work on my project.

 

 

EDIT: I got a question actually, just read that you can activate an other effect during the Battle Step after your have declared an attack, and I choose to activate say Call of the Huanted. If I do this, can I activate an other card that alters what happened before I activated CotH? Also, I asked before about Honest. Say, you go back to your Battle Step when you declare an other attack. Can I then activate my DNA Transplant then and will it change the ATK back of that monster?

[Zeppeli Gyro Supreme]

I got a question actually, just read that you can activate an other effect during the Battle Step after your have declared an attack, and I choose to activate say Call of the Huanted. If I do this, can I activate an other card that alters what happened before I activated CotH? Also, I asked before about Honest. Say, you go back to your Battle Step when you declare an other attack. Can I then activate my DNA Transplant then and will it change the ATK back of that monster?

I have no idea what you're asking about in your first question, but in the second question Honest activates during the damage step, so there really isn't much of anything that can activate that would prevent it from going off when it's already been used. However, if for some reason in the same chain there is no longer a LIGHT monster battling during that damage step by an effect, then I believe Honest's effect would disappear. I don't actually know of any cards off the top of my head that can destroy DNA Transplant during the damage step, though.

[Zazubat]

I have no idea what you're asking about in your first question, but in the second question Honest activates during the damage step, so there really isn't much of anything that can activate that would prevent it from going off when it's already been used. However, if for some reason in the same chain there is no longer a LIGHT monster battling during that damage step by an effect, then I believe Honest's effect would disappear. I don't actually know of any cards off the top of my head that can destroy DNA Transplant during the damage step, though.

I'll try to make it simpler for you. On the Wikia, when you have activated an effect during the Battle Step, before the Damage Step, if that resolves, and I choose to activate an other effect that say would change anything that happened before that effect, is that possible?

Also for the second thing, what I mean is not the Damage Step, it's if my opponent got a monster that can attack a second time, will it keep it's ATK when you go back to the Battle Step, where you could activate DNA Transplant?

[darkwolf777]

I'll try to make it simpler for you. On the Wikia, when you have activated an effect during the Battle Step, before the Damage Step, if that resolves, and I choose to activate an other effect that say would change anything that happened before that effect, is that possible?

Also for the second thing, what I mean is not the Damage Step, it's if my opponent got a monster that can attack a second time, will it keep it's ATK when you go back to the Battle Step, where you could activate DNA Transplant?

 

You try to make it simpler, but I also have no clue what you're asking in your first question.

 

As for the second question, If Honest already resolved, changing the attribute will not remove the ATK gained.

[Zazubat]

You try to make it simpler, but I also have no clue what you're asking in your first question.

 

As for the second question, If Honest already resolved, changing the attribute will not remove the ATK gained.

Okay then, I'll qoute from what I read, that should make it simple: If the Turn Player passes, and the opponent passes as well, the chance to activate any more cards that activate in response to an attack is GONE.

Though for me it's not really the attack that's important, rather any effect that would take place, and it then resolves and I wish to activate an effect that would start a new chain, though would that be able to have any connection to the previous effect? To follow up so you understand, from further down the page: The Battle Step doesn't immediately proceed to the Damage Step after both players pass. Players can still activate cards or card effects in the Battle Step. However, at this point it is too late to use cards that need to respond to an attack. Other cards may still be used if their timing and speed is correct, though.

What this would mean is that if I were to activate an effect that would destroy a card, say I activate a card that summons a monster, and afterwards when the chain is done, can I activate a card effect that would change the previous effect without also changing the attack target? I would assume no, since I think it would cause a replay if I summoned a monster, which would then lead me to be able to choose an other target, so if I were to use an effect that tributes my monster to do something to my target, it wouldn't matter since I can just choose my target again, and afterwards use that effect that does something to my target. It's somewhat of a weird question I understand, but hopefully you get what I mean :P

[darkwolf777]

I still have no understandin gof your question. What you think is simple clearly isn't.

 

1) There is only one "Attack Declaration" response. When a player says they're going to attack, at that timing is the only chance to activate cards that can be activated in response to Attacks, such as Mirror Force, Dimensional Prison or Negate Attack.

 

2) After Attack Declaration, the game is still in the Battle Step. To continue through any phase of the game, both players need to pass priority. You can have an unlimited number of different chains here if you wanted; The Damage Step will only begin after both players pass priority here.

 

Other than that, I still do not know what your question is asking. If you're gonna use all this jargon you got, try just listing what effects you plan on using, and if its a custom written effect, write it out. Otherwise, I dunno if i'm going to understand at all what you hope to accomplish.

[Zazubat]

I still have no understandin gof your question. What you think is simple clearly isn't.

 

1) There is only one "Attack Declaration" response. When a player says they're going to attack, at that timing is the only chance to activate cards that can be activated in response to Attacks, such as Mirror Force, Dimensional Prison or Negate Attack.

 

2) After Attack Declaration, the game is still in the Battle Step. To continue through any phase of the game, both players need to pass priority. You can have an unlimited number of different chains here if you wanted; The Damage Step will only begin after both players pass priority here.

 

Other than that, I still do not know what your question is asking. If you're gonna use all this jargon you got, try just listing what effects you plan on using, and if its a custom written effect, write it out. Otherwise, I dunno if i'm going to understand at all what you hope to accomplish.

Though as you people have told me if I remember correctly, Battle Step and Damage Step are different and you can activate any card you want in the Battle Phase, except for the Damage Step. That's what I gather, and since cards like Book of Moon can be activated (that doens't say anything about the Battle Step, so it should also be so for other cards) why shouldn't I be able to activate Call of the Haunted at that moment?

 

I'm going to try to rewrite my explaination when I get an answer to this, cause if you can't activate cards like CotH in the Battle Step, then there's no point to my question.

 

EDIT: I have been reading through a few pages, and questions people ask, and it seems that you cannot activate any other cards after you have declared an attack, besides things that change ATK/DEF and that directly say they can be used when you declare an attack (and of course effects that trigger during this time). I guess I just wasted my time. Hurray!

[darkwolf777]

EDIT: I have been reading through a few pages, and questions people ask, and it seems that you cannot activate any other cards after you have declared an attack, besides things that change ATK/DEF and that directly say they can be used when you declare an attack (and of course effects that trigger during this time). I guess I just wasted my time. Hurray!

 

That is incorrect.

 

Please read my last post again.

 

What you're talking about in regards to "besides things that change ATK/DEF" is something in regards to the Damage Step, not the Battle Step. There are no restrictions to what cards can be used during the Battle Step.

[Zazubat]

That is incorrect.

 

Please read my last post again.

 

What you're talking about in regards to "besides things that change ATK/DEF" is something in regards to the Damage Step, not the Battle Step. There are no restrictions to what cards can be used during the Battle Step.

There is only one "Attack Declaration" response. When a player says they're going to attack, at that timing is the only chance to activate cards that can be activated in response to Attacks, such as Mirror Force, Dimensional Prison or Negate Attack.

 

So now you're saying the opposite that I can activate cards like CotH when I have declared an attack? You just said that there's no restrictions towards cards that can be activated during the Battle Step, however what you said before cotradicts this.

[darkwolf777]

There is only one "Attack Declaration" response. When a player says they're going to attack, at that timing is the only chance to activate cards that can be activated in response to Attacks, such as Mirror Force, Dimensional Prison or Negate Attack.

 

So now you're saying the opposite that I can activate cards like CotH when I have declared an attack? You just said that there's no restrictions towards cards that can be activated during the Battle Step, however what you said before cotradicts this.

 

Please quote what I said which contradicts what you're saying.

 

Attack Declaration is part of the Battle Step. Of Course Call of the Haunted can be activated when someone declares an attack.

[Zazubat]

What I said? This is about what you said, cause you're having condraticing statements.

 

First post: There is only one "Attack Declaration" response. When a player says they're going to attack, at that timing is the only chance to activate cards that can be activated in response to Attacks, such as Mirror Force, Dimensional Prison or Negate Attack.

 

Second post: What you're talking about in regards to "besides things that change ATK/DEF" is something in regards to the Damage Step, not the Battle Step. There are no restrictions to what cards can be used during the Battle Step.

[darkwolf777]

They are not contradicting statements.

 

A timing issue is not the same as a restriction. Timing issues depend on the card you're trying to play, not the mechanics of the game not allowing you to activate them, such as with the specific issues involving the Damage Step.

 

The Damage Step restricts many cards from being played that would otherwise be playable if it wasn't for the fact the game mechanics say "You cannot activate effects except for these specific types", not the cards themselves.