Cute Rotten Yoshika Posted December 31, 2012 Report Share Posted December 31, 2012 as a clarification since i know what this is about, can warning negate black garden's initial activation even though no monster is currently being summoned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miror B Posted December 31, 2012 Report Share Posted December 31, 2012 as a clarification since i know what this is about, can warning negate black garden's initial activation even though no monster is currently being summonedNo it cannot. If the card does not summoning anything at activation, Warning cannot touch it period.Examples: Valhalla Hall of the Fallen and Fusion Gate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zazubat Posted December 31, 2012 Report Share Posted December 31, 2012 Yes it can, it doens't matter if you used a spell or not to summon the mosnter. However, as Kevin said, the activation of a card that summons is a different thing then the actual summon itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miror B Posted December 31, 2012 Report Share Posted December 31, 2012 Yes it can, it doens't matter if you used a spell or not to summon the mosnter. However, as Kevin said, the activation of a card that summons is a different thing then the actual summon itself.Except it can't negate Black Garded because it doesn't guarantee a (possible) summon on activation.(Possible is only there because Macro and the like) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zazubat Posted December 31, 2012 Report Share Posted December 31, 2012 Except it can't negate Black Garded because it doesn't guarantee a (possible) summon on activation.(Possible is only there because Macro and the like)it shouldn't matter, it says "when a monster would be summoned" meaning it applies to every kind, the card just specifies it further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miror B Posted December 31, 2012 Report Share Posted December 31, 2012 it shouldn't matter, it says "when a monster would be summoned" meaning it applies to every kind, the card just specifies it further.OR when a Spell Card, Trap Card, or monster effect is activated that includes an effect that Special Summons a monster(s)Activating Black Garden does not summon a monster. Activating the EFFECT of Black Garden summons a monster, but Solemn Warning does not negate activating a Spell or Trap Cards effect.Solemn Warning cannot touch Black Garden under any circumstance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zazubat Posted December 31, 2012 Report Share Posted December 31, 2012 As I said, it simply specifies, I want an offical word from Konami that that was it's intend. Of course I know that it means the activation of the spell card, not the activation of the effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilfusion Posted December 31, 2012 Report Share Posted December 31, 2012 As I said, it simply specifies, I want an offical word from Konami that that was it's intend. Of course I know that it means the activation of the spell card, not the activation of the effect. Black Garden is as immune to Warning as cards like Fusion Gate, Valhalla, and Infernity Launcher. When Garden is activated, there is no effect being activated that is SSing a monster. Garden only performs Special Summons at a time after it has fully resolved (when a monster is Normal Summoned while it is already faceup). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cute Rotten Yoshika Posted December 31, 2012 Report Share Posted December 31, 2012 ah. that was my assumption. good to know for the future. not that it actually mattered cuz striker had warning set too aha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathanael D. Striker Posted December 31, 2012 Report Share Posted December 31, 2012 ah. that was my assumption. good to know for the future. not that it actually mattered cuz striker had Judgment set too aha. Fixed for ya. And thanks guys for the learning experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkwolf777 Posted January 1, 2013 Report Share Posted January 1, 2013 The thing you have to understand is whether or not the effect is or can attempt to Special Summon during the resolution of what's being activated. Black Garden's card activation does not do anything but place itself on the field. If you're using something like Macro Cosmos or Starlight Road, the effect text that resolves gives you that option to Special Summon during resolution. You don't decide to Special Summon something until resolution, but the point is that an effect is resolving in which you can Special Summon something, even if you were to choose "No" when it would resolve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zazubat Posted January 1, 2013 Report Share Posted January 1, 2013 The thing you have to understand is whether or not the effect is or can attempt to Special Summon during the resolution of what's being activated. Black Garden's card activation does not do anything but place itself on the field. If you're using something like Macro Cosmos or Starlight Road, the effect text that resolves gives you that option to Special Summon during resolution. You don't decide to Special Summon something until resolution, but the point is that an effect is resolving in which you can Special Summon something, even if you were to choose "No" when it would resolve.I already said I understand that there's a difference between placing the card on the field, and effects happening there, and activating effects that summons a monster, but the card Solemn Warning says "when a monster would be summoned" so it should still make sense. Yes it also says "or when a spell/trap is activated" but unless there is offical word from Konami, we don't know if that was what they actually meant. It would make most sense the way you people are saying it, I ain't disagreeing with that, but as far as I have read, there's nothing that says that what you're saying is right either, unless I misread or didn't read something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilfusion Posted January 1, 2013 Report Share Posted January 1, 2013 It IS what they meant. It's not only how it's been ruled with similar cards, it's how the Summon negation mechanic works. "When a monster would be Summoned" refers to Normal, Flip, or inherent Special Summons. You can never directly negate the Special Summon of a monster from a card effect that starts a chain; you must only negate the effect being activated. This is because cards and effects may never interrupt the resolution of an effect. Solemn Warning can't negate just any S/T. It can only negate the activation of a Spell Card that Special Summons, a Trap Card that Special Summons, or a Monster Effect that Special Summons. What we've explained is how it has been ruled for the situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zazubat Posted January 1, 2013 Report Share Posted January 1, 2013 okay then you win, I didn't know that summoning a monster from a card effect is different then summoning it by it's own effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkwolf777 Posted January 1, 2013 Report Share Posted January 1, 2013 I already said I understand that there's a difference between placing the card on the field, and effects happening there, and activating effects that summons a monster, but the card Solemn Warning says "when a monster would be summoned" so it should still make sense. Yes it also says "or when a spell/trap is activated" but unless there is offical word from Konami, we don't know if that was what they actually meant. It would make most sense the way you people are saying it, I ain't disagreeing with that, but as far as I have read, there's nothing that says that what you're saying is right either, unless I misread or didn't read something. Understand when it is when a monster "would" be summoned. Let's say I activate Monster Reborn. The time at which a monster would be Special Summoned: Is it at the activation of Monster Reborn? Or is it during the Resolution? This is why Rai-Oh cannot negate things like Monster Reborn. The time when a monster WOULD BE Special Summoned by Monster Reborn is during is resolution. You cannot activate cards during the resolution of a card's effect. Therefore you cannot activate Rai-Oh. Same as Black Garden's Special Summon. It occurs during the resolution of the effect. You cannot activate Warning during the resolution of a card's effect to stop it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zazubat Posted January 1, 2013 Report Share Posted January 1, 2013 Understand when it is when a monster "would" be summoned. Let's say I activate Monster Reborn. The time at which a monster would be Special Summoned: Is it at the activation of Monster Reborn? Or is it during the Resolution? This is why Rai-Oh cannot negate things like Monster Reborn. The time when a monster WOULD BE Special Summoned by Monster Reborn is during is resolution. You cannot activate cards during the resolution of a card's effect. Therefore you cannot activate Rai-Oh. Same as Black Garden's Special Summon. It occurs during the resolution of the effect. You cannot activate Warning during the resolution of a card's effect to stop it.can you give an example of a card that doesn't work that way, I think I'm a tad bit confused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkwolf777 Posted January 1, 2013 Report Share Posted January 1, 2013 can you give an example of a card that doesn't work that way, I think I'm a tad bit confused. There isn't. A card effect that would Special Summon a monster would occur during the resolution of that chain link. The only other types of Special Summons would be Inherent, either from their conditions, or due to the Xyz/Synchro Summoning process. These do not start chains and therefore since there are no cards resolving, you could activate Rai-oh or use the "when a monster would be Special Summoned" effect of Warning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zazubat Posted January 1, 2013 Report Share Posted January 1, 2013 There isn't. A card effect that would Special Summon a monster would occur during the resolution of that chain link. The only other types of Special Summons would be Inherent, either from their conditions, or due to the Xyz/Synchro Summoning process. These do not start chains and therefore since there are no cards resolving, you could activate Rai-oh or use the "when a monster would be Special Summoned" effect of Warning.I don't think a lot of people know this. I have been Judged or Rai-ohed many times like this, damn so many things I didn't know about this stupid silly little card game, couldn't they have made it easier to understand by simply looking at the cards? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miror B Posted January 1, 2013 Report Share Posted January 1, 2013 I don't think a lot of people know this. I have been Judged or Rai-ohed many times like this, damn so many things I didn't know about this stupid silly little card game, couldn't they have made it easier to understand by simply looking at the cards?That's what the colons and lack of colons are for.Cyber Dragon's text has no colons or semi-colons. It can be negated by Rai-Oh.Megaloabyss has a colon and/or semi-colon, it cannot be negated by Rai-Oh.No spell card or trap card to date can be negated by Rai-Oh because activating a Spell card is automatically a chain link.Warning is different from Rai-Oh because it specifies Spell and Trap activations, but that's it.If anything of this confuses you ask and I'll try to explain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shradow Posted January 1, 2013 Report Share Posted January 1, 2013 With Solemn Warning, when negating spells or traps that special summon, does it only work on cards that summon on their activation? For example, could SW be used on cards like Geartown or Machina Armored Unit, who, though don't special summon monsters on activation, have the ability to later? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dementuo Posted January 1, 2013 Report Share Posted January 1, 2013 With Solemn Warning, when negating spells or traps that special summon, does it only work on cards that summon on their activation? For example, could SW be used on cards like Geartown or Machina Armored Unit, who, though don't special summon monsters on activation, have the ability to later?No, you cannot. Solemn Warning must negate the activation of a card who's effect upon activation or resolution involves summoning a monster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cute Rotten Yoshika Posted January 1, 2013 Report Share Posted January 1, 2013 that is what this discussion is about (in this case black garden). the answer is no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilfusion Posted January 1, 2013 Report Share Posted January 1, 2013 To be fair, Summon negation mechanics is rather subtle and is rarely explained properly in-depth in rulebooks. This is where a lot of confusion comes from: It's a consistent rule that isn't really explained to beginners and it's sometimes taken for granted by judges and experts that this rule is not well-known. But like a number of rulings and mechanics, once you get them, almost everything else related to them is very easy to grasp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shradow Posted January 1, 2013 Report Share Posted January 1, 2013 Hm, maybe I should make it a habit of actually reading the previous posts in this thread... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zazubat Posted January 1, 2013 Report Share Posted January 1, 2013 alright, so from what I gather, because summoning Cyber Dragon does not form a chain, it can be negated, but because Megalo does form a chain it can? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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